Does Assault Vest have a place in VGC?

[Eeyore]

After adding AV Tyranitar to my team, happy about the Sp. Def boost he gets in the sand, and thrilled at the combination of AV, hopefully tanking special hits and surprising the opponent with an unsuspected kill form a poke they assumed out of the question.

However, I've noticed that my lack of protect has been detrimental in more than one place, and pokemon like Amoongus that can take a hit or two from T-tar just come in and take full advantage.

Which made me look around for a pokemon that would truly benefit from AV, and its inability to protect/set up has been more than a detrimental flaw. I no longer question why I do not see it often in VGC play.

Which made me wonder if AV, one of the new items that Game Freak came up with in an attempt to balance gameplay out, has a place in VGC competition, or whether it will remain a singles item only?

 

[Pyritie]

AV ludicolo and scrafty are pretty popular since they can still provide support with Fake Out. Ludicolo tends to get targeted a lot if it's on a rain team so the extra bulk helps, and scrafty still has intimidate and drain punch for extra support and recovery.

I personally also really like AV azumarill since it tends to draw a lot of fire (usually tbolts) which the AV helps it survive.

 

[Chipndip]

The main problem with Assault Vest is your inability to use Protect: An EXTREMELY important part of double or triple battling. Still, bulky mons appreciate this item, mainly Scrafty. Ludicolo's seen AV usage, but I personally think one needs good overall bulk for it to make much sense using.

 

[Mymble]

Assault Vest is only, like it should be in any tier, used by bulky attackers. More specifically, in VGC, Pokemon which can afford to not use protect, which are surprisingly many. Ludicolo, Tyranitar, and Goodra are three of the most prevalent users, Azumarill works fine but trading Lum Berry, Sitrus Berry, and/or Belly Drum is rarely worth it.

 

[jimmyjames2112]

At Nats, a Lapras with AV was in the top 4

 

[Eeyore]

It's interesting to see people's opinions. I ran a Eject Button Scrafty, and I wouldn't give it AV over that, since most Fairy types would KO it anyways. AV Ludicolo seems awesome, and AV azumarill seems strangely cool, but I also understand the point that giving up the Belly Drum set basically means you should run thick fat/sap sipper on a defensive azumarill. You can make similar arguments about other mons. Earthquake is T-tars bane, and with how well it pairs up with Garchomp, is it worth sacrificing protect, and taking damage? Most special attackers don't bother with Goodra, sticking to the many many physical threats in the tier to tackle that spongy wall, so why give it more Special Defense when its base is already so high, over more power, higher speed or recovery, all of which are not so strong on Goodra, in Choice items, LO or lefties? AV can seem like a waste.

What other mons can run AV, and make it worth it? Is there any mon (besides perhaps Ludicolo) that can run it and make it less of a niche item? It seems more situational than other prevalent items like Sash, LO, Lefties, Choice, or even some berries, especially since the designed seemed to make it attempt to be universal.

 

[Martin]

Assault Vest is only, like it should be in any tier, used by bulky attackers. More specifically, in VGC, Pokemon which can afford to not use protect, which are surprisingly many. Ludicolo, Tyranitar, and Goodra are three of the most prevalent users, Azumarill works fine but trading Lum Berry, Sitrus Berry, and/or Belly Drum is rarely worth it.

I wouldn't say that Tyranitar is a prevelant user of the item tbh. Too many pokemon target it - not to mention those that do it with super effective hits - for it to even think about not running Protect when it isn't holding a scarf. That is AV Tyranitar's issue: it gives up the ability to use Protect for something that it doesn't really benefit much from the item, unlike Choice Scarf which lets it check a series of different pokemon to those that it could before. This makes it more hinderence than help, and most skilled players steer away from it for that very reason.

It's interesting to see people's opinions. I ran a Eject Button Scrafty, and I wouldn't give it AV over that, since most Fairy types would KO it anyways. AV Ludicolo seems awesome, and AV azumarill seems strangely cool, but I also understand the point that giving up the Belly Drum set basically means you should run thick fat/sap sipper on a defensive azumarill. You can make similar arguments about other mons. Earthquake is T-tars bane, and with how well it pairs up with Garchomp, is it worth sacrificing protect, and taking damage? Most special attackers don't bother with Goodra, sticking to the many many physical threats in the tier to tackle that spongy wall, so why give it more Special Defense when its base is already so high, over more power, higher speed or recovery, all of which are not so strong on Goodra, in Choice items, LO or lefties? AV can seem like a waste.

What other mons can run AV, and make it worth it? Is there any mon (besides perhaps Ludicolo) that can run it and make it less of a niche item? It seems more situational than other prevalent items like Sash, LO, Lefties, Choice, or even some berries, especially since the designed seemed to make it attempt to be universal.

Well, Goodra does actually benefit from the boost as it isn't particularly good at tanking Ice Beams and Blizzards without it dispite the terrifying special defense. It is far from niche on Scrafty as it isn't there to let it take Fairy-type moves: it is there to increase its all-around bulk - something which Intimidate helps it achive. Drain Punch gives it recovery and it gets great offensive typing - something which is only resisted by fairy (a type of which there is only one common pokemon with, being gardevoir - who is neutral to it) and then there are is literally one variable move on an AV set (full set is Fake Out, Drain Punch, Crunch, Rock Slide/Zen Headbutt - you spotted the variable yet?) which shows you don't need that much thought when designing a moveset for it.

 

[Eeyore]

I wouldn't say that Tyranitar is a prevelant user of the item tbh. Too many pokemon target it - not to mention those that do it with super effective hits - for it to even think about not running Protect when it isn't holding a scarf. That is AV Tyranitar's issue: it gives up the ability to use Protect for something that it doesn't really benefit much from the item, unlike Choice Scarf which lets it check a series of different pokemon to those that it could before. This makes it more hinderence than help, and most skilled players steer away from it for that very reason.

Well, Goodra does actually benefit from the boost as it isn't particularly good at tanking Ice Beams and Blizzards without it dispite the terrifying special defense. It is far from niche on Scrafty as it isn't there to let it take Fairy-type moves: it is there to increase its all-around bulk - something which Intimidate helps it achive. Drain Punch gives it recovery and it gets great offensive typing - something which is only resisted by fairy (a type of which there is only one common pokemon with, being gardevoir - who is neutral to it) and then there are is literally one variable move on an AV set (full set is Fake Out, Drain Punch, Crunch, Rock Slide/Zen Headbutt - you spotted the variable yet?) which shows you don't need that much thought when designing a moveset for it.

You make good points!
However, on the Gardevoir being the only prevalent fairy, I'd still have to disagree. I see Azumarill frequently. And even on the special side, Aromatisse isn't uncommon. Klefki runs Dazzling gleam, as does Alakazam, Gengar and other special sweepers for spread and Dragon check. That's just a statement, and isn't there to say you're wrong. I have further looked into AV Scrafty, and the more I use it the more I like it.

 

[Martin]

You make good points!
However, on the Gardevoir being the only prevalent fairy, I'd still have to disagree. I see Azumarill frequently. And even on the special side, Aromatisse isn't uncommon. Klefki runs Dazzling gleam, as does Alakazam, Gengar and other special sweepers for spread and Dragon check. That's just a statement, and isn't there to say you're wrong. I have further looked into AV Scrafty, and the more I use it the more I like it.

sorry, i misspoke. I meant most prevelant fairy-type. Also, I Kelfki run Foul Play to deal with its god-awful offensive stats more than Dazzling Gleam. Also, Alakazam is far from common, Gengar doesn't usually carry DG.

While I agree that Garde isn't the only prevelant Fairy-type (Azu sees a fair amount of usage), Azumarill is still quite a bit less common, Aromatisse isn't particularly common and Klefki is in no way common as Meowstic is usually a persons first choice for a Prankster user due to Fake Out (Sableye also gets this, but it plays a different role due to having a different movepool and is nowhere near as common as Meowstic)

These are merely counter-points, so I apologize if I sound like a bit of a douche at this point.

 

[Pyritie]

(a type of which there is only one common pokemon with, being gardevoir - who is neutral to it)

mawile says hi

 

[Martin]

mawile says hi

oh lol forgot mawile, but Garde is about as common (idk how, probably because it can do something which other specially-based fairies don't do too well).

 

[Deleted User 220884]

Is Assault Vest Escavalier in Trick Room good, or it's better to Run Occa Berry/Choice Banded sets?

 

[Martin]

Is Assault Vest Escavalier in Trick Room good, or it's better to Run Occa Berry/Choice Banded sets?

AV Escav is good.