[DONE] JOHTO CLASSIC - Post your results!

[Moody Magikarp]

Just theorymonning here, but Taunt Umbreon might be able to do the trick. Taunt's pretty unexpected coming from Umbreon, and even if they do catch you on the switch, you can just smack the Espeon with Payback or whatever. I'm pretty sure that Umbreon can tank +2 Dazzling Gleam with enough investment (or a Roseli Berry if you're willing to take it that far).

I'm trying it since I'm getting desperate. The only issue I can see is that Smeargle out speeds, so maybe I'll add a chesto berry or something

 

[Xander of Nohr]

So how are people dealing with the core of Azumarill, Dragonite, and Scizor? I feel like these three will be on almost every team together. I've been using physically defensive Zapdos with hp ice.

Quagsire gives no fucks about all three of them, barring Choice Band sets.

 

[Swordmalice]

Quagsire gives no fucks about all three of them, barring Choice Band sets.

What's a good set for Quagsire that can deal with them?

 

[Xander of Nohr]

What's a good set for Quagsire that can deal with them?

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Level:50
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Protect
- Recover

The standard Unaware Wall is the most reliable set for it. However, I've seen some people using a set-up sweeper set with Curse and it looked pretty fun to use, although I haven't tried it out myself.

 

[TheLastAce]

Update: I'm liking this thing a lot more than I thought. It stops rain teams dead cold.

It's not going to tank too many earthquakes, even at max defense, but it's still pretty solid. I'm going to try the mixed wall set next which gives you a lot more options since you're not limited from status moves with the assault vest.

Also, has anyone found a reliable way to beat these annoying Smeargle baton pass chains? They seem to be all over the place now (with high rankings might I add). Taunt seems like the obvious option, but they can easily just switch into Espeon.

I recently began experimenting with choice scarf Lanturn and due to it's rather great movepool for this competition, it's simply causing havoc. I'm a bit shocked on how well Lanturn has done thus far but definitely need more matches to determine just how great overall it is.

Lanturn (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Discharge
- Hydro Pump

 

[Moody Magikarp]

I recently began experimenting with choice scarf Lanturn and due to it's rather great movepool for this competition, it's simply causing havoc. I'm a bit shocked on how well Lanturn has done thus far but definitely need more matches to determine just how great overall it is.

Lanturn (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Discharge
- Hydro Pump

I was actually thinking of something similar except with specs.

It does nasty things to Scizor since it double resist bullet punch, and can OHKO back even the max health variant with HP Fire. The only thing you have to worry about is knock off or the ones with a Jolly nature, but I assume those will be rare to maximize the power of Bullet Punch.

 

[Adestria]

I personally feel like an unaware pokemon is absolutely necessary for this meta as almost everything is a setup sweeper. I've been having insane luck with Unaware, CM, Minimize Clefable. With an Unaware mon on your team, Azumarill and Dragonite are no longer your biggest worries. Scizor and Machamp still seem to give me problems, as well as Snorlax, but Unaware otherwise shuts down anything that tries to set up.
Entei + Venusaur pair is really good too depending on what you complete the core with.

 

[cant say]

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Level:50
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Protect
- Recover

The standard Unaware Wall is the most reliable set for it. However, I've seen some people using a set-up sweeper set with Curse and it looked pretty fun to use, although I haven't tried it out myself.

I recently began experimenting with choice scarf Lanturn and due to it's rather great movepool for this competition, it's simply causing havoc. I'm a bit shocked on how well Lanturn has done thus far but definitely need more matches to determine just how great overall it is.

Lanturn (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Discharge
- Hydro Pump

Just like every online comp where new players come to battle spot, I need to remind you guys that you need to set your Pokemon to level 50 in the PS teambuilder so your EV spreads are efficient.

EVs work differently at level 50. If a stat has a 31 (or odd number) IV, EVs must be divisible by 4 but not 8. In other words, you need 4 EVs for the first stat point, and 8 for every point after that (so starting from 0 it goes 4, 12, 20, 28 etc).

If a stat has a 30 (or even number) IV, then EVs should be divisible by 8 (so starting at 0 it goes 8, 16, 24 etc). This means that the highest amount of EVs in a stat with a 30 IV is 248, as 252 makes no difference.

So that Quagsire should have either 244 or 252 in its HP, and 4 or 12 in its SpD, and that Lanturn should have no more than 248 in both SpA and Spe.

 

[rcade216]

I am just wonder, since I have screwed this up before with my Slurpuff.

To do a Belly Drum Azumarill, 252 EVs in HP puts him at 207 HP. does that activate Sitrus Berry?

I cannot remember if it needs to be an odd number of HP or even to activate.

Also, is Belly Drum Azumarill effective in this META?

When this event was announced I was all excited and started researching and testing like I did for the Kanto Classic. However, being that this looks just like the Kanto Classic Plus Johto Minus 3 Pokémon.

I am not very good at 3v3. 6v6 gives more of a chance to have a few role players and not completely cripple your team. 3v3 I just suck at team select prediction.

 

[cant say]

I am just wonder, since I have screwed this up before with my Slurpuff.

To do a Belly Drum Azumarill, 252 EVs in HP puts him at 207 HP. does that activate Sitrus Berry?

I cannot remember if it needs to be an odd number of HP or even to activate.

Also, is Belly Drum Azumarill effective in this META?

When this event was announced I was all excited and started researching and testing like I did for the Kanto Classic. However, being that this looks just like the Kanto Classic Plus Johto Minus 3 Pokémon.

I am not very good at 3v3. 6v6 gives more of a chance to have a few role players and not completely cripple your team. 3v3 I just suck at team select prediction.

HP needs to be even, so the max HP EVs you should use on Azu is 244. And yeah Belly Drum is good.

However, this competition is nothing like the Kanto Classic + Johto mons - 3 Pokemon.... The only similarity is the theme of the name ("____ Classic"). You really cannot use knowledge from the Kanto Classic at all to play this meta.

 

[rcade216]

HP needs to be even, so the max HP EVs you should use on Azu is 244. And yeah Belly Drum is good.

However, this competition is nothing like the Kanto Classic + Johto mons - 3 Pokemon.... The only similarity is the theme of the name ("____ Classic"). You really cannot use knowledge from the Kanto Classic at all to play this meta.

I mean as it is not just Johto Pokémon. I understand that Gen II had both Johto and Kanto, and every game has some carry over Pokémon from other generations.

I would have enjoyed it more if it was just Johto introduced Pokémon, 6v6, just like the Kanto Classic setup.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

I must admit..almost everything A tier and up I can handle, however for the life of me I have no consistent answer for that stall toxic Entei. That thing gets me in such tough predicaments late game, it's hard to draw it out early and dispatch of it. I even convinced myself to add Crobat to my team in hopes of doing something when Entei hides behind sub but that doesn't always work out due to that 50% chance of burn from Sacred Fire, any tips? I haven't seen many people bring it up so I could very well be the only noob who's walled by this fiery bastard.

Perish Song, it's completely uncounterable. Just grab a Murkrow or Lapras. Switches out? No prob, loses Sub and eats entry damage if applicable. Last mon, can't be Roar'd? No prob, it has 3 turns to live, you win. Murkrow has Prankster for Perish Song / Roost, and Lapras is absurdly bulky and doesn't care. Dewgong is the same as Lapras, but comes with Encore, Disable, and Thick Fat at the cost of being statistically inferior in every way.
Heatran's gone, which means it fears almost nothing.
Or get something with Trick + Specs, like Espeon. It has to switch moves every turn to succeed, and Specs denies that at no detriment to you. Pressure invalidates Encore so try to avoid that.

edit: Rest would keep Burns / Toxic off your balls.

 

[IrishShinobi]

I'm actually pretty excited that the events softly implying a VC rerelease of Gen 2 but I won't get my hopes up toooo high.

Also, I heard on IRC a few People were using my old RNGs from when I uploaded and shared them on Pokemon from 2011-Pokecheck's downfall in 2014 so I wanted to go ahead and make my stuff easily available for people who can work with .pkm files. Here's a .rar archive with most all of my RNGed stuff. This includes several key Pokemon for this competition like Zapdos, (Sheer Cold) Suicune, Raikou, Extreme Speed Entei... on top of basically every other Pokemon in the Johto dex in at least an untrained state. Hope some of you folks find it useful for getting Pokemon for this competition.

I logged on after a year or two just to give this guy a like and possibly a cookie. I hated i lost some of my rng collection since pokecheck went down. I doubt it will be up any time soon if ever at all. That said, i will be joining this competition to stea- i mean earn my childhood nightmare from whitney. Its has been a while since I competed but i am surprised smeargle is not concerned to be as much of an annoyance by some.

 

[Omastar68]

I mean as it is not just Johto Pokémon. I understand that Gen II had both Johto and Kanto, and every game has some carry over Pokémon from other generations.

I would have enjoyed it more if it was just Johto introduced Pokémon, 6v6, just like the Kanto Classic setup.

That second sentence is like exactly what I said on the first page lol. It makes sense they let Kanto stuff in here, but Jhoto's super interesting mons would make it more interesting if it was just them. Maybe I'm just being difficult, but I kno its not wanting what I can't have. Like if they were only letting Jhoto I wouldn't complain.

As for 3v3 instead, not crazy about that either. I tend to do better in 6v6, even tho I only play BSS for the most part, since you can switch to more stuff and counter w/e. Like I did way bettr in KC than regular old BSS. I don't think you can really complain time constraints eithr-I mean if that's your problem just play on PS lol

 

[Moody Magikarp]

That second sentence is like exactly what I said on the first page lol. It makes sense they let Kanto stuff in here, but Jhoto's super interesting mons would make it more interesting if it was just them. Maybe I'm just being difficult, but I kno its not wanting what I can't have. Like if they were only letting Jhoto I wouldn't complain.

As for 3v3 instead, not crazy about that either. I tend to do better in 6v6, even tho I only play BSS for the most part, since you can switch to more stuff and counter w/e. Like I did way bettr in KC than regular old BSS. I don't think you can really complain time constraints eithr-I mean if that's your problem just play on PS lol

I think the length of the battles is the main reason they didn't bring back 6v6 for this, but the main reason battles were so long is that every Poke was itemless and that made Stall way too dominate.

I personally hope we never see another tourny where no items are allowed as it makes things like sleep way too game breaking.

As much as I like 6v6 though, because of the extremely long battle times in some cases(which I imagine they have to watch most of them for ranking purposes), I doubt we'll see the return of that format anytime soon which is unfortunate.

 

[Xander of Nohr]

Good lord, because we had to play a goddamn bunch of matches everyday the Kanto Classic was a complete nightmare for me. I think I played like 3 games then dropped out of the tournament because I was completely burnt out by it already. If we're playing on cartridge, 3x3 is much, much better.

Anyways, I just got bodied by a Marowak with Perish Song (for context: I had only Quagsire left, my opponent had Marowak and DD Dnite, both of which I thought were no problem for Quagsire; then boom: Perish Song. :'U ). Heck, I had no idea Marowak even had that move and its bulk, barring a middling HP base, isn't actually all that bad so I could definitely see this working. Just one of those nice little surprises that I'm expecting to see during the actual tournament.

 

[The Squash]

Perish Song, it's completely uncounterable. Just grab a Murkrow or Lapras. Switches out? No prob, loses Sub and eats entry damage if applicable. Last mon, can't be Roar'd? No prob, it has 3 turns to live, you win. Murkrow has Prankster for Perish Song / Roost, and Lapras is absurdly bulky and doesn't care. Dewgong is the same as Lapras, but comes with Encore, Disable, and Thick Fat at the cost of being statistically inferior in every way.
Heatran's gone, which means it fears almost nothing.
Or get something with Trick + Specs, like Espeon. It has to switch moves every turn to succeed, and Specs denies that at no detriment to you. Pressure invalidates Encore so try to avoid that.

edit: Rest would keep Burns / Toxic off your balls.

Perish song is definitely something to look out for. Does anybody know if there are any soundproof mons in johto or kanto?
Also on the subject of perish song, you can use a fast mon to taunt dewgong or lapras and stop murkrow from being able to stall with moves like roost, protect, and substitute. Some good pokemon for this might be crobat or electrode, as crobat outspeeds dewgong and lapras while electrode can taunt and counter all three (even though it's mediocre). Alakazam and aerodactyl might also do good, as aerodactyl can KO murkrow and alakazam can hurt lapras and dewgong.

 

[Hulavuta]

Perish song is definitely something to look out for. Does anybody know if there are any soundproof mons in johto or kanto?
Also on the subject of perish song, you can use a fast mon to taunt dewgong or lapras and stop murkrow from being able to stall with moves like roost, protect, and substitute. Some good pokemon for this might be crobat or electrode, as crobat outspeeds dewgong and lapras while electrode can taunt and counter all three (even though it's mediocre). Alakazam and aerodactyl might also do good, as aerodactyl can KO murkrow and alakazam can hurt lapras and dewgong.

Electrode actually does get Soundproof as well

 

[T.U.C.]

Electrode actually does get Soundproof as well

Mr. Mime also gets soundproof, see full list here. But idk why you would ever use him in JC.

EDIT: Also, it should be noted that if you're using Baton Pass, Perish Song counters are still applied. I assume this means if, for example, your smeargle gets Perish Songed, and then you use Baton Pass to switch out smeargle with, an electrode, then your electrode will still be effected by Perish Song despite having the soundproof ability. Correct me if I misinterpreted (source).

 

[Adestria]

Perish song is definitely something to look out for. Does anybody know if there are any soundproof mons in johto or kanto?
Also on the subject of perish song, you can use a fast mon to taunt dewgong or lapras and stop murkrow from being able to stall with moves like roost, protect, and substitute. Some good pokemon for this might be crobat or electrode, as crobat outspeeds dewgong and lapras while electrode can taunt and counter all three (even though it's mediocre). Alakazam and aerodactyl might also do good, as aerodactyl can KO murkrow and alakazam can hurt lapras and dewgong.

I've actually never had a problem with perish song to be honest. Though, my team ohko's every perish songer anyway. If your team lacks the pushing power to break through those threats, I suggest trying to fit some somewhere if you can. Kangaskhan has been phenomenal for me as it beats gengar with fake out + sucker punch, takes out Lapras/Dewgong with ease, and actually comes with a ton of support options like disable. Seismic toss is also available. You could also try a volt-turn combo to allow yourself out of the perish song without having to waste a turn. However, Taunt works just fine. I just find knocking out the pokemon to be infinitely more rewarding than simply taunting it.

On a separate note, what do you guys think the most prominent cores are so far? I mean besides azu, dnite, scizor.

 

[T.U.C.]

I've actually never had a problem with perish song to be honest. Though, my team ohko's every perish songer anyway. If your team lacks the pushing power to break through those threats, I suggest trying to fit some somewhere if you can. Kangaskhan has been phenomenal for me as it beats gengar with fake out + sucker punch, takes out Lapras/Dewgong with ease, and actually comes with a ton of support options like disable. Seismic toss is also available. You could also try a volt-turn combo to allow yourself out of the perish song without having to waste a turn. However, Taunt works just fine. I just find knocking out the pokemon to be infinitely more rewarding than simply taunting it.

On a separate note, what do you guys think the most prominent cores are so far? I mean besides azu, dnite, scizor.

I've actually been spectating a lot of JC battles on PS today, and Zapdos/Raikou seem very popular (Zapdos moreso than Raikou). Anyone else not running either seems to run with Jolteon. So, fast electric types seems to be a pretty prominent core, a least today. Interestingly, I've seen quite a few Sub/Protect/Toxic/Scald Suicunes as well, which might explain why fast electric types are so prominent. I've also noticed that Smeargle and Espeon work very well together. I've seen a Quiver Dance Smeargle as well as Power Herb, Geomancy Smeargle. Both Baton Passed boosts to Espeon, which then could sweep with Stored Power.

 

[Swordmalice]

I've actually been spectating a lot of JC battles on PS today, and Zapdos/Raikou seem very popular (Zapdos moreso than Raikou). Anyone else not running either seems to run with Jolteon. So, fast electric types seems to be a pretty prominent core, a least today. Interestingly, I've seen quite a few Sub/Protect/Toxic/Scald Suicunes as well, which might explain why fast electric types are so prominent. I've also noticed that Smeargle and Espeon work very well together. I've seen a Quiver Dance Smeargle as well as Power Herb, Geomancy Smeargle. Both Baton Passed boosts to Espeon, which then could sweep with Stored Power.

Any idea on how those BP Smeargles are EVed? I've lost to so many of them by now; it's so frustrating. I applaud the strategy but it's such a ball licker when you're up against one and they BP to an Espeon sweeping with Stored Power.

 

[Adestria]

I've actually been spectating a lot of JC battles on PS today, and Zapdos/Raikou seem very popular (Zapdos moreso than Raikou). Anyone else not running either seems to run with Jolteon. So, fast electric types seems to be a pretty prominent core, a least today. Interestingly, I've seen quite a few Sub/Protect/Toxic/Scald Suicunes as well, which might explain why fast electric types are so prominent. I've also noticed that Smeargle and Espeon work very well together. I've seen a Quiver Dance Smeargle as well as Power Herb, Geomancy Smeargle. Both Baton Passed boosts to Espeon, which then could sweep with Stored Power.

Yeah I've noticed all of that as well. I personally run a scarf sturdy magneton as my electric type but have been considering swithing it to a specs or scarf zapdos. Possibly even a static zapdos w/rocky helm. I'm really looking for new things to try though. I haven't had a single problem with any of dnite or azumarill but things like scarf nidoking really give me problems, which I guess is why some people run alakazam and what not. As far as baton passing and setup sweepers, I just always make sure to have an Unaware mon like Fable or Quag. It allows me to set up while ignoring any stat modifications the enemy has.

 

[Moody Magikarp]

Yeah I've noticed all of that as well. I personally run a scarf sturdy magneton as my electric type but have been considering swithing it to a specs or scarf zapdos. Possibly even a static zapdos w/rocky helm. I'm really looking for new things to try though. I haven't had a single problem with any of dnite or azumarill but things like scarf nidoking really give me problems, which I guess is why some people run alakazam and what not. As far as baton passing and setup sweepers, I just always make sure to have an Unaware mon like Fable or Quag. It allows me to set up while ignoring any stat modifications the enemy has.

The main issue that I learned the hard way in a Kanto Classic battle is that Stored Power can blast through Unaware since the stat boost increase the base power itself which isn't ignored.

It has me strongly considering running Haze or Clear Smog on one of my Mons, but both have their obvious draw backs..

 

[Omastar68]

Any idea on how those BP Smeargles are EVed? I've lost to so many of them by now; it's so frustrating. I applaud the strategy but it's such a ball licker when you're up against one and they BP to an Espeon sweeping with Stored Power.

EVs? Smeargle is always gonna be max HP and Spe. Rees mayb a couple with SpA for a Stored Power of their own, but that's stupid.

The main issue that I learned the hard way in a Kanto Classic battle is that Stored Power can blast through Unaware since the stat boost increase the base power itself which isn't ignored.

It has me strongly considering running Haze or Clear Smog on one of my Mons, but both have their obvious draw backs..

Agh, double post. But I'm trying to help so don't nag me XD.

Anyways, I think Roar on something could then be good since it has more applications than just stat boosters. Dark types are immune to Stored Power, and there's also stuff that's bulky and resistant that can take it even with boosts...tho perhaps not that many. Taun to stop the set up to begin with keeps SP weak.

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