Double Dragon (Lol,jk) - OU RMT

With Salamence off to Ubers, Fire/Water/Grass teams have taken over. Heatran knocked Scizor down from his number one spot. Shaymin is finally allowed out to play. Gyarados is trying desperately to usurp Salamence. Meanwhile the self-proclaimed All-Star Flygon is battling Dragonite for recognition (Kingdra is too cool to be bothered).

The focus of my team is gradually weaken my opponent’s team with residual damage from Sandstorm, Stealth Rocks, and Spikes. With the three running they will have to play smarter against my boosting sweepers, all who have access to recovery.

Da squad Im reppin:




▲▲▲The Lead▲▲▲
Froslass (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 248 HP/132 Def/124 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Ice Beam
- Trick

Styles P. the Ghost:
This lead was inspired by Jibaku’s Deoxys-E (I don't think I should be giving him credit if the lead is this awful). The defense EVs allow me to set up my own entry hazards against a great chunk of the top 10 leads. Conveniently Froslass also serves as a spin blocker.

Azelf
: With the given EVs I will always survive Naïve Azelf’s Fire Blast (84.3% - 99.4%) allowing me to get down two layers of Spikes. If he misses a Fire Blast I get three, if he opts for Psychic there is a small chance it will be a 3HKO. In the case I want to prevent the Azelf from setting up entry hazards or screens I go to Taunt and switch over to Tyranitar.

Machamp
:
248 Adamant Machamp Payback vs. 252/132 Timid Froslass : 78.5% - 92.4%
Machamp is one of the leads I lose to. With 53.9% of Machamp running Bullet Punch I am not always guaranteed two layers of Spikes. Switching to another Pokemon would assuredly mean it’s the end of the line for them so I take the chance and put my two layers of Spikes down.

Aerodactyl:
252 Jolly Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. 252/132 Timid Froslass : 69.8% - 82.6%
With Rock Slide’s 90% accuracy there is a slight chance I can set up three layers of spikes. Alternatively I can 2HKO him with Ice Beam.


Metagross:
232 Adamant Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 252/132 Timid Froslass : 48.8% - 57.6%
Metagross is another lead I lose to because of his STAB Steel attacks. Meteor Mash is always a OHKO and Bullet Punch is a 2HKO with priority. Hopefully my opponent predicts a switch and uses Stealth Rock or Trick allowing me to Taunt them that turn while I switch to Zapdos the next.

Swampert:
Relaxed Swampert Earthquake vs. 252/132 Timid Froslass : 38.4% - 45.3%
At minimum I will get two layers of Spikes off on the standard MixPert lead due to minimal attack investment or switches.

Jirachi:Jirachi leads I will always lose to so I go on over to my Heatran who will scare it away and doesn't really mind a Choice Scarf.

Infernape:Infernape is a Pokemon with a huge movepool yet remains mostly predictable. Froslass is immune to Fake Out, I outspeed him regularly, so hopefully my opponent will fear the Taunt and attack with Fire Blast or Overheat allowing me to bring in Dragonite.

Roserade:
Roserade 2HKOs me with Leaf Storm, so I will more than likely Taunt on my first turn scouting for the Sleep Powder and then switch on over to Dragonite.

Heatran:
Heatran absolutely destroys me with his STAB Fire Blast/Flamethrower so I switch on over to Dragonite. Since my opponent knows I have an Explosion immune Pokemon and Dragonite might carry Earthquake they will probably switch. In case they don’t and decide to explode I will switch on over to Tyranitar!


▲Sweeper▲▲▲

Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 224 HP/84 Atk/200 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Roost

Whatchu mean son?:
With great natural bulk, a plethora of resistances and access to recovery, Dragonite has plenty of chances to set up for a run at a sweep. Dragonite boasts a HUGE movepool so it can be somewhat tricky at times to stop him.

Dragon Dance patches Dragonite’s somewhat average speed stat, while Dragon Claw and Earthquake provide coverage against a wide range of Pokemon. Roost allows Dragonite to switch in freely on a variety of Pokemon, shrugging off residual damage from Stealth Rock and Sandstorm. Roost however, would be a waste without great resistances and luckily Dragonite resists Fire/Water/Grass! He also resists Fighting and is immune to Ground attacks.

252 Timid Life Orb Heatran Fire Blast vs. 224/0 Adamant Leftovers Dragonite : 33.5% - 39.6%
252 Timid Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 224/0 Adamant Leftovers Dragonite : 13.7% - 16.4%
252 Adamant Life Orb Gyarados Waterfall vs. 224/0 Adamant Leftovers Dragonite : 24.8% - 29.3%
---
▲▲▲Sweeper▲▲▲

Kingdra (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 144 HP/160 Atk/164 Spd/40 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Rest

Yeah?:
This Kingdra was taken straight from Atticus' analysis. What attracted me to this Kingdra was that I could set up on a multitude of Pokemon, especially bulky Waters and Heatran (This Kindra also inspired me to steal another idea from Jibaku; Heatran).

Much like Dragonite, Kingdra's vast movepool contributes to is unpredictability. This set focuses on its great stats and dual-STAB to keep momentum in my favor. Often times bulky waters or status inducing Pokemon are switched in and allow Kingdra to set up alongside them.
---
▲▲▲Utility▲▲▲

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP/204 Spd/52 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock/Earth Power
- Taunt
- Roar
- Flamethrower

Smoke it, smoke it:
After setting up on a few Heatran with Tyranitar, Kingdra, and Dragonite, I knew that running Taunt or Roar was necessary. Taunt prevents slower Pokemon from setting up and Roar racks up entry hazard damage.

Heatran does a great job on the team because he lures out bulky waters and Flygon while keeping Steel type Pokemon at bay.

The given EV spread allows me to maintain some bulk while outspeeding Pokemon like 252 Adamant Lucario/Timid Magnezone.
---
▲▲▲Wall▲▲▲

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP/228 Def/32 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Heat Wave

Save da drama for your mama:

Standard Physical Defensive Zapdos to keep Scizor, Gyarados, and bulky waters away.

With Roost, Zapdos can afford to switch in repeatedly while absorbing attacks from attackers. I win the stall war because of Pressure (sorry br0).

Hidden Power Grass lets me exile Swampert from the jungle, and Heat Wave sends just about every Steel back to the rice fields.

Blah blah fatigue.
---
▲▲▲IM THE BEST MAAAAAAAAANE. I DEEEEED IT.▲▲▲

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Crunch

Savor the flavor:
CurseTar is one bulky motherfucker. I play him the moment I get a chance so that my opponent aims to take him out early. If I am playing smart Tyranitar will be one of the last Pokemon left.
---
▲▲▲THREAT LIST▲▲▲
Aerodactyl -
Lead Aerodactyl is no problem for my Froslass who can outspeed and 2HKO him with Ice Beam. Mid to Late game he proves somewhat problematic since Tyranitar is my only Rock resist.

Azelf -
Lead Azelf gets disposed of promptly. Tyranitar can handle most variants as well as Heatran.

Breloom -
This kid is a problem depending on whether or not he is Jolly or Adamant. Jolly Breloom destroys my team.



Dragonite -
His big movepool and ability to hit from both sides of the spectrum make him somewhat hard to counter. Heatran being my only Steel fears Earthquakes.



Electivire -
Electivire? More like JOKETIVIRE HA HAAHA.


Empoleon -
Zapdos can handle Emoleon pretty well until the Petaya berry kicks in.



Flygon -
Frosslass can nail him on the switch. If Kingdra and Dragonite can get two Dragon Dances in Flygon is toast.


Gengar -
Stall for a Focus Blast miss or something :P


Gyarados -
Zapatos!


Heatran -
Depending on which variant of Heatran it is, Tyranitar, Dragonite, and Kingdra can handle him.



Heracross -
Zapdos and Dragonite boasts resistances to both of his STABs but fear a Stone Edge. I must read carefully.


Infernape -
Save an HP Ice, Dragonite does not fear him. Zapdos can handle Infernape well to a certain extent (Special attacks will wear it down).


Jirachi - HEATRAN.


Jolteon -
Tyranitar can handle most Jolteons well. In the case of Specs Jolteon with Signal Beam I can switch out to a resist.

Kingdra
- My non-existent Empoleon.
Lucario -
Zapdos.


Machamp -
:|

Magnezone -
Save a ScarfMagnezone, Heatran can handle it pretty well. Dragonite can also hit it for SE damage.


Mamoswine -
:(


Metagross -
Depends on which moves it is carrying.



Ninjask -
See Machamp.


Roserade -
Dra-Go-Nite AOW AOW


Scizor -
Zapdos.



Smeargle -
Heatran!


Starmie -
If Starmie can not hit Tyranitar or Zapdos hard enough it is toast. Kingdra can also set up on Starmie.



Togekiss -
:|


Tyranitar -
Depends really. I can usually fire off STAB Waterfalls at most Tyranitars.


Weavile -
:pirate:

Defensive Threats

Blissey -
TYRANITAR is my go to Pokemon against Blissey.


Bronzong -
????


Celebi -
Leech Seed + Thunder Wave Celebi is REALLY REALLY annoying.


Dusknoir -
Pfft.


Forretress -
Zapdos

Gliscor -
Kingdra/Froslass.


Hippowdon -
Depends. Rarely do you see a Hippowdon outside of the lead position.


Rotom-A -
Tyranitar can handle him minus a trick or Leaf Storm/Hydro Pump.

Skarmory -
Zapdos.


Snorlax -
Tyranitar sorta


Suicune -
If I stop the boosts in time, Kingdra or Zapdos.


Swampert -
Save ChoiceBand Swampert I dont think hes much of a problem.


Tentacruel -
Tyranitar or if he doesnt Knock off my Chesto Berry, Kingdra.


Vaporeon -
Kingdra can fucks with him. Tyranitar too.


Zapdos -
Tyranitar.
 
I really like your team, it uses a pretty cool concept that is similar to my current team. The only thing I can address is that you change your Froslass set to this one: Icy Wind / Shadow Ball / Spikes / Taunt - Destiny Bond. This set lets you beat lead Azelf, as well as getting two layers of Spikes against Infernape. Aerodactyl is beaten by a combination of two Icy Wind, while Azelf loses to Icy Wind and Shadow Ball, it loses to the same leads so I dont think it will mess up your synergy. Good Luck! Oh almost forgot.. evs are 4 / 252 / 252
 
I really like your team, it uses a pretty cool concept that is similar to my current team. The only thing I can address is that you change your Froslass set to this one: Icy Wind / Shadow Ball / Spikes / Taunt - Destiny Bond. This set lets you beat lead Azelf, as well as getting two layers of Spikes against Infernape. Aerodactyl is beaten by a combination of two Icy Wind, while Azelf loses to Icy Wind and Shadow Ball, it loses to the same leads so I dont think it will mess up your synergy. Good Luck! Oh almost forgot.. evs are 4 / 252 / 252

Hey thanks for the feedback although at this point I do not believe having a Pursuit weak lead works well for me. I am thinking of switching Froslass for Roserade who can function in the same manner.

Posting to get some more feedback from the community.
 

Acklow

I am always tired. Don't bother me.
If you decide on swapping Froslass out for Roserade, you certainly will need a Spin Blocker to keep those Entry Hazards in play. Preferably one that can take out Starmie. I have one suggestion you can try out:

Spiritomb @ Choice Band
Adamant
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def
-Shadow Sneak
-Pursuit
-Return/Sucker Punch/Will-o-Wisp
-Trick

This is a TrickBand Spiritomb. It can easily take the place of at least one of your sweepers, most likely Dragonite. This is because adding Roserade will create another Ice weakness on your team, and having 4 pokemon weak to Ice is not the best idea for a team. Spiritomb removes one of that weakness, and instead brings in a great versatility, playing as Revenge Killer, Priority User, Stall Killer, Spin Blocker, and basically your all around pokemon. Spiritomb lacks alot of bulk, but it can still take on the majority of threats. It can easily take on Starmie, because most Starmie stay on on Spiritomb, so Shadow Sneak deals with those. When facing Azelf leads, running straight to Spiritomb while they set up rocks and pursuiting them easily gives you a KO. Plus, TTars are no longer a problem, because they don't OHKO with Pursuit.

Otherwise, nice team. I really don't have all the experience in the world, but this could potentially help.
 
I think that your froslass lead should be replaced. It loses to a lot of leads im pretty sure. Metagross 2hko's if you trick and you still get only layer if you dont. heatran is gonna nuke you without sash. Machamp is only letting you get one, etc etc. And since your team relys on entry hazards having your only spinblocker as a near suicide lead isnt a good idea. Maybe use Roserade like you said, and chance Zapdos to a PainSplit Rotom? bulkier and still does a decent job of walling things, albeit without the reliable recovery.

P.S. LOL at the Eli Porter reference.
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Replace Crunch with Payback on Cursetar. Since you're going to be slower than the universe as it is, you might as well get some extra damage out of it.
 

Super Mario Bro

All we ever look for
Replace Crunch with Payback on Cursetar. Since you're going to be slower than the universe as it is, you might as well get some extra damage out of it.
Crunch has more PP and Payback can be whirlwind stalled by Skarmory. Plus, Crunch has awesome defense drops.
 
to a certain extent dd bulky dnite rips this team to shreds....if it gets one dd it can potentially 6-0 your team as zapdos tbolt wont be doing sufficient damage. The one fix i would suggest is possibly roar>HP grass on zapdos; this allows you to wear dnite down with sr while maintaining your core. Just a suggestion though. Another alternative that might work is just add defensive (or specially defensvie) skarmory over frosslass as you could combat your weakness to mons such as dd kingdra and ddnite more effectively. Good luck with the team!
 
Crunch has more PP and Payback can be whirlwind stalled by Skarmory. Plus, Crunch has awesome defense drops.
Defense drops matter very little on curseTar, especially when you get them randomly 20% of the time.

Payback > Crunch IMO, the extra 25% is worth it when you're at +1 or +2, and the extra 5 PP saves you less often than the extra damage would. I run it on my curseTar and the damage is noticeable.
 
Due to having a resttalker, toxic spikes will be far more useful than regular spikes. As said, a roserade would work alot better than Froslass. Froslass is also 100% ttar bait, a poke that could cause some problems. Roserade can hurt ttar badly and complete the FWG core.

With that said, I think scarftar and breloom cause some problems. Scarftar can revenge or wall alot of this team, and really hurt your own ttar with superpower. Zapdos and heatran are shut down. Gliscor would do well here, it can taunt breloom to stop it from subbing around (hopefully after letting it sleep ttar) and deals with tyranitar. It also deals with lucario and scizor easily. In order to not destroy synergy, you would have to replace dragonite though, as you already have one dragon sweeper.

Last thing: Crunch is probably better than payback. More PP, def drop chance, and it also doesn't make it obvious that you are a cursetar.
 
I've been messing with your suggestions and would like to say a few things.

Kingdra has become less effective since I replaced Dragonite with Gliscor and then Skarmory. I really need an opener to partner with Kindra and Tyranitar.

Rotom-A works well too but that makes my team to vulnerable to Gengar. In order to remedy the Gengar problem I think I will need to switch Tyranitar to some sort of Dragon Dance variant or Heatran to RestTalk.

Anywho I present to you the current changes:


Roserade (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Toxic Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I went with Choice Scarf Roserade since I kinda need a revenge killererish. Roserade is fast enough to outspeed most leads. Later on in the game when I can sacrifice Roserade and get two layers of Toxic Spikes or a revenge kill with Leaf Storm. Kinda 60/40 with this set atm.


Rotom-w @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/56 Def/200 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Will-o-wisp
- Pain Split

Kinda dumb of me to have Will-O-Wisp on Rotom when I have Toxic Spikes on Roserade but as I do not always begin the match laying them down I have a few chances to burn switch ins with Will-O-Wisp potentially crippling a potent physical sweeper. Also my only Electric resist. Yikes.



Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird

Special Defensive Skarmory to increase longevity. Spikes help chip away more health on my opponents. Whirlwind allows me to repeatedly damage opposing Pokemon and Roost lets me do it again!
 
Threat List said:
Aerodactyl - Lead Aerodactyl is no problem for my Froslass who can outspeed and 2HKO him with Ice Beam. Mid to Late game he proves somewhat problematic since Tyranitar is my only Rock resist.
Just a little nitpick there, Tyranitar doesn't resist Rock.
 
All those changes may help you out but isn't this against the rule:
The solutions you recommend needn't be new Pokemon. Indeed, it is often best to try and deviate as little as possible from the original team. Remember, you're here to rate the team, not rebuild it.
 
All those changes may help you out but isn't this against the rule:
I am just trying those changes out, not sure if I am doing something wrong by asking for opinions on those changes.

With 13 versions of the team I think two are viable... One includes Dragon Dance Tyranitar and Specially Defensive Heatran. The other has two Dragons and a FWG core :O
 

Super Mario Bro

All we ever look for
How does this team handle Dragon Dancers? Absolutely nothing on this team can revenge them and your only hope to killing them is wearing them down. Also, Swords Dance Infernape can sweep if it sets on Froslass.

A solid counter to Dragon Dancers and Boosting Infernape is Choice Scarf Flygon:

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpD
-Outrage
-U-Turn
-Earthquake
-ThunderPunch

I would place this over Dragonite, who doesn't seem to check much at all. An Adamant nature works amazingly with spikes -- It gives your attacks a little extra punch, and you are still able to outspeed everything that you need to.

Good luck!
 

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