Lower Tiers Doubles OU Viability Rankings

[DaAwesomeDude1]

Not sure if this has been nommed yet/moved to unrank but Entei UR -> 3
I really don't understand why Entei isn't Tier 3. I think Tier 3 fits Entei to the bill. It's got a good matchup against Amoonguss, Aegislash, and somewhat Charizard Y, and unlike Infernape (I'm just using it as an example cause it's like the only Fire type lol) Entei has respectable bulk which gives it a better matchup against Talonflame and Metagross. Sacred Fire is a pretty spammable move which has a 50% chance to burn. Being burned sucks ass so unless your name is Heatran, Hydreigon, or a Water-type, you most likely don't want to switch into this thing. E Speed is also cool to pick off weakened mons and Talonflames.

 

[kamikaze]

Not sure if this has been nommed yet/moved to unrank but Entei UR -> 3
I really don't understand why Entei isn't Tier 3. I think Tier 3 fits Entei to the bill. It's got a good matchup against Amoonguss, Aegislash, and somewhat Charizard Y, and unlike Infernape (I'm just using it as an example cause it's like the only Fire type lol) Entei has respectable bulk which gives it a better matchup against Talonflame and Metagross. Sacred Fire is a pretty spammable move which has a 50% chance to burn. Being burned sucks ass so unless your name is Heatran, Hydreigon, or a Water-type, you most likely don't want to switch into this thing. E Speed is also cool to pick off weakened mons and Talonflames.

This is a mon that I kind of feel like could maybe be ranked but I need to see more of it tbh, rather than making it rise solely by theorymon.

Do you want to link replays of it in action? (Preferably tournament battles)

 

[DaAwesomeDude1]

This is a mon that I kind of feel like could maybe be ranked but I need to see more of it tbh, rather than making it rise solely by theorymon.

Do you want to link replays of it in action? (Preferably tournament battles)

I only have two replays of me using Entei in tourneys, and both of them were end game cleaning so it doesn't really show the abilities of Entei too well. I'll use Entei next round tho to show haha. I can still link them if you want.

E: kamikaze17 replays
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesou-272877284
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-doublesou-88182

 

[kamikaze]

I only have two replays of me using Entei in tourneys, and both of them were end game cleaning so it doesn't really show the abilities of Entei too well. I'll use Entei next round tho to show haha. I can still link them if you want.

go for it.

I will probably send out the next batch of votes sometime next week, so you got time to convince the council.

 

[SpaceBass]

Sableye 3 -> UR

Everything this pokemon does something else does better, and I can't even remember the last time I saw someone use a Sableye and win a game. There are plenty of better Wisp users, fake out users, swagger users, etc. This pokemon's only niche is Quash, and you might as well nickname your Sableye "Quashimodo" bc it's a humpback piece of shit that people like for some reason. It's also not bulky at all and it puts that great typing to shame. Lastly, Mega Diancie is everywhere and it makes Sableye legitimately useless.

I feel like thats abit much really, Sableye definitely isn't super good or anything but its not unranked bad. Prankster WoW is pretty great paired with Quash, the annoying part is that it's best paired with strong spread spam like Mega Garde, Char Y or Volc, and Sableye being kinda useless vs Fire types besides Quash isn't fun.

Snarl can be pretty nice on Semi Trick Room but is complete shit outside of room being up because Sableye gets smashed before it does anything. I think tier 3 is the right place for it.

Edit: Also as far as I'm aware you can still Quash Mega Diancie

 

[Stratos]

found the kingdra image i was looking for btw

 

[KyleCole]

Bisharp 1.5 -> 2'
I like Bisharp a lot, but Defiant alone isn't enough to justify Bisharp being in the same tier as Latios, Heatran, and Thundurus. Especially given that Bisharp cannot KO Landorus-T 100% of the time even with a Life Orb. I think 2' is a much better place for Bisharp given that it has "broad applications on a variety of teams" but a move to 2 would more accurately represent its viability.

Tier 2 -> UR
I know it's a pretty bold move guys but with no seasonal usage or open usage it isn't tough to see where this nom is coming from. I would rather not base the VR on theorymonning. In pretty much every case Camerupt is just a less viable version of Heatran, without the flexibility of using a recovery item or a resist berry. There was a good Camerupt team awhile ago but right now I need more than a team that was decent 8 months back to justify a placing on the VR. Also that particular team just took a loss vs rain which is more popular now than ever.

UR -> Tier 3
When I first saw Arcticblast using Chesnaught I thought he was insane. He is, but Chesnaught has recently shown it's viability in the Open winning games for both Laga and Arctic in the finals. Chesnaught is a solid defensive answer to Landorus-T while offensively checking Kangaskhan and bulky waters in a way that Amoonguss can't. Definitely has shown itself to be viable.

 

[astroboy]

mega metagross from 1.5 to 2/2'
honestly megagross is really underwhelming and having it in the same rank as heatran as a sin lol. its got nice bulk yeah but it still loses to tons of important shit, most notably aegislash, landog, talon, and trick room in general. this thing is super matchup based i dont get why its 1.5 other than its decent bulk and ability to be a shitty check to kang. youre never really gonna ever use this outside of when you specifically build around it because jirachi/aegi are so much better in most situations.

also why is mega venu a rank above venu lol

 

[Mizuhime]

This is a mon that I kind of feel like could maybe be ranked but I need to see more of it tbh, rather than making it rise solely by theorymon.

Do you want to link replays of it in action? (Preferably tournament battles)

It's a weird mon to use, Pure fire, Lando-t all over the place, it's understandable as to why people don't use it. The best set for it, in my opinion, is the Adamant Assault Vest set. In the right conditions Entei is pretty threatening and a burn from Sacred Fire is always super annoying, but it has to be in the right conditions. It's not a mon that will ever be a top tier threat but it can fill some niches and isn't an awful choice for a team. As a bonus it's got some pretty nice stats and is a lot bulkier than people think

 

[megacyber]

i feel like it might be able to make tier 3, but it's definitely on the edge of it. I've used it successfully a few times with a life orb three attacks set and it pulled its weight, but the lando and keld weaknesses are there, not to mention a bunch of other mons it has problems with. Also, it might be good to put a limit on how many mons we put in tier three, cuz there are currently a shit ton

 

[Yellow Paint]

Rotom-Heat 2 -> 3

Heattom is a lot worse now, no skymin, more diancie, and I honestly don't consider this a real threat. It's most often just added to patch up venu+zard, and you have to run goggles if you do. Bad matchups all around.

 

[Checkmater]

agreeing that this thing could probably be 3 (also note that this was just voted on a few votes ago and rejected) but its niche isn't just "sun check". It also serves as a good talon switchin that can beat grasses, if you don't want to use the other electric in the tier. When you already have your water type down (say you have metagross+keldeo) and thundurus doesn't fit or would be preferred to be able to switch into flare blitz and beat amoonguss, heattom can fit very well.

edit: gonna hijack my own post cuz I don't want to post again

sylveon -> 2'

doesn't have a broad application, but it's more like "if I have the right support I flourish". Also could arguably be redefined as just a tr sweeper.

also idk how this works but
2'' tier with description "provides specific support"
might as well make this an official suggestion or w/e. There are a lot of mons that could fit into this category as listed earlier

 

[CorruptedOmega]

1.5 --> 1

Thundurus is very unpredictable. With its great supportive movepool and good offensive coverage, one can't ever be certain of what moves it is running. What's more, its excellent base speed lets it outpace a huge number of mons. Whether bulky or offensive, Thundurus stands a serious threat over the metagame.

EDIT: sorry for being redundant, but I'd like to run it by the new members of the tiering council

 

[Derivatives]

I think that's like the 10th time Thundurus has been nommed...

 

[shaian]

who wants to bet homeboy just got parafucked in a battle?

 

[shaian]

also Memoric, n10sit i'd like your opinions on the viability of thundurus as well

 

[kamikaze]

I love how we get so many nominations right after I send out a batch of votes. I sent it out last night

Everything Rotom-H onward will be send in a later batch.

 

[Stratos]

hey i know im not technically in charge of this thread but please stop nominating:

• thundurus to 1
• kyurem-b to 1
• rotom-h to 3

every fucking month

 

[kamikaze]

Votes are in the order Totem, Stratos, qsns, KyleCole, kamikaze

Mega Venusaur 2 -> 2'

Hide

semantic stuff and idr the dif but prob y if everyone else says it

no. check stop nominating stupid shit to 2' i saw you did it again this time with sylveon

idc but saying it fits on a specific team is kinda weird, so no i guess?

No, I actually went and looked at the definitions to double check this.

Abstain

Mega Aerodactyl 3 -> UR

Hide

yeah i dont rly see much of a use for this

no. Posted on this. One of the few good choices for HO teams that want a solid Talon check alongside Scarf Rotom.

no, still solid against HO and its coverage is rlly good

Yes, had a time where it was usable but that time has passed.

Abstain. Not really sure on this one and I want to be positive before agreeing to drop this, especially since we just asked for an analysis to be written for it.

Mega Charizard X 3 -> UR

Hide

literally a good pick, im a big zard x fan twind and dd are super viable

no. doesnt require unholy amounts of support, has good resists, and is threatening as fuck at +1. definitely not UR material

no its good

No. Hardly a surprise coming from me but I think that this is actually a pretty good pick right now. Zard X is at least as viable as everything in Tier 3 and way better than like Mega Venusaur. This might also take the prize for most poorly timed nomination in the history of Doubles VR.

No http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesou-304473806 . But in all seriousness it is a great sun counter and very destructive if it catches the opponent off guard on the right turn. Shaian's post was mainly to prevent people nomming this for a rise all of a sudden, so I am kinda susprised that this was nommed for a drop instead. Its good where it is.

Sableye 3 -> UR

Hide

i can see this but imma abstain bcus i never use it

yes. i just dont consider this mon at all when i build, either as a threat or a possible team member, though that may be just cuz i dont use "gimmick" strats

abstain

No ofc not. Definitely viable.

No. Its a cool support mon that has some nice tools (Prankster Quash, WoW, Taunt, Fake out, Weather Moves) and I have been successful with along with the other people who used the team I built using it. Its not an easily slap on a team mon like some others, but hey thats why its only Tier 3.

Entei UR -> 3

Hide

EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh i guess sacred fire is good and shuca or goggles can work

yes. another marginally viable defensive fire. what sets this one apart is that it's really scary to switch into since anything has a 50% chance of a sacred fire burn, and that he beats zard straight up w/ stone edge, but really i'd only use it over tran/heattom if i was cube weak. still, cool on teams that want a defensive fire but are cube weak.

goggles is good yes pls

Yes, good mon. Agree with the original nomination but I don't think it specifically mentioned Sub/Shuca which is a good set on this.

Yea cool mon. Everything has been said already.

Bisharp 1.5 -> 2'

Hide

no bish i still good

no. still v threatening w/ prio, like a worse talon that doesnt kill itself

no, strong priority is still fantastic. used to agree w this sentiment but using it recently has changed my mind

I nommed this. Doesn't look like it's moving down but if you think Bisharp is in the same realm of viability as Thundurus, Heatran, and Latios then you're out of your mind. That's a yes btw.

No. I abstained on the previous vote on it, but since then I actually started using it more and have only been convinced of its Tier 1.5 status. Life Orb is probably the way to go on this as it gets off heavy hits and you generally bring it in on good field matchups where it just dunks on the opponent anyway, so sash is generally redundant from experience. And obviously as others have been clamoring, stab sucker priority is pretty amazing as well.

Mega Camerupt 2 -> UR

Hide

i can see to 3 but UR is mean :^(

yes. not a single viable team w/ this mon atm. hard to justify over goggles tran since the latter is a better amoonguss check and doesnt take your mega.

havent seen this in forever so i guess i agree

Nommed this so yes. Trash mon.

Abstain

Chesnaught UR -> 3

Hide

abstain

yes. living latios's psyshock is just impressive, it's like ferrothorn but with a different typing which can be better in some circumstances.

yea arctic bodied me w/ it :(

Nommed this so yes. Goodish mon!

Yea. Arctic and Laga shown us another usable grass type.

Mega Metagross 1.5 -> 2

Hide

i feel like im the only one who thinks this is still good :^(

yes. Really think this mon was heavily overrated for a while, I think it's very hard to use.

i use this a ton when i steal memoric's teams and although it still works, putting it in tier 1.5 is kind of overselling it. i like having no megas in tier 1.5 because it shows how much better the top 3 are than any of the other choices.

Tough claws, but I'm gonna say yes because I think Metagross is closer to Mega Gengar and Mega Abomasnow in viability but I disagree entirely with the sentiment that the top 3 Megas are miles ahead of the other picks.

I think its a very good mon tbh and more people should try it but I will acknowledge in an upcoming mega metagross team RMT that basically my entire team was built around this pokemon and supporting it to a win. So that may just say something about the mon and that it isnt as splashable as the other Tier 1.5 threats. Good for 2.

Final Changes:
Entei moves from Tier UR -> 3
Mega Camerupt moves from Tier 2 -> UR
Chesnaught moves from Tier UR -> 3
Mega Metagross moves from Tier 1.5 -> 2

 

[Stratos]

togekiss -> 3

 

[KyleCole]

Garchomp 3 -> UR
blah blah outclassed by lando t blah
Garchomp is the last mon on the list that falls into the category of "If I see you using this I'll probably laugh" so let's get rid of it. If you're making a spot on your team for a Dragon type Pokemon that loses to the other Dragons and has a Rock Slide that misses OHKOing any kind of bulky zard, just for the sake of having a Pokemon with Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin you probably should scrap and restart.

 

[Checkmater]

fire resist

edit: that is to say, garchomp has shitloads of notable matchups that make it not just "outclassed by landot"

 

[Derivatives]

1) sunny day chomp = le epic memes xD
2) chomp is a ground type that can reliably switch into tran for teams with zard because
252+ SpA Heatran Heat Wave vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 153-181 (46.3 - 54.8%) -- 64.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Heat Wave vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T in Sun: 229-271 (69.3 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
3) 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 374-439 (114.7 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO - that's at least one dragon gone
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 108 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 343-406 (82 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - not so great but like it's facing sun which carries like more spread moves than SpaceBass 's mom lellers
4) 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Mega Charizard Y: 359-426 (99.7 - 118.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

garchomp gets picked on but it's just high school - the nerd always wins in the end

 

[shaian]

good to know my faster dragon type loses to kyurem-b

 

[Platinum God n1n1]

Ninetails to tier 20

Sometimes you want to make a sun team with a mega diancie or some other mega