DPP Froslass (Update)*

supermarth64 · Aug 6, 2009

Done.

Read below picture part.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/froslass
Removed the attacking sets (outclassed by Gengar, even with STAB Ice Beam).
Removed "Crafty Tricks" set, as the general Lead set outperforms it.
Mentioned both in Other Options.

[SET]
name: Suicide Lead
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Destiny Bond
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Focus Sash
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Froslass is a considerably good lead in today's metagame, as its base 110 Speed, along with its immunity to Fake Out and Explosion, allow it to fare well against some of the more commonly seen leads. Opposing leads that attempt to lay down a layer of Stealth Rock are shut down by Taunt, while Spikes can be used as the opposing Pokemon decides to attack. Destiny Bond ensures that you will take down anything slower than you, provided you don't get hit by a priority move, such as Bullet Punch, beforehand.

Spikes is the main move in this set, causing residual damage whenever the opponent switches Pokemon. Taunt and Destiny Bond serve the same purpose mentioned in the previous paragraph. STAB Ice Beam rounds out the set, allowing you to 2HKO all Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Hippowdon leads. Ice Shard may be used to 2HKO Aerodactyl, as its priority will cause Aerodactyl to either Taunt or set up Stealth Rock before dying, but in exchange, KOs on Azelf and Hippowdon are lost. If using Ice Shard, use 252 Attack EVs instead of Special Attack and a Jolly nature instead, since the Special Attack investment is no longer necessary. Shadow Ball may be used as an alternate STAB source, but you lose the KOs on Aerodactyl and Hippowdon, though you do pick up a 2HKO on Naive Infernape leads, although only 80.08% of the time.

Focus Sash allows you to survive a hit and then take down the opposing lead with Destiny Bond or set up another layer of Spikes. If the opposing Pokemon tries to attack first, then Froslass can Taunt and Destiny Bond the opposing Pokemon, preventing both sides from setting up entry hazards. If the opposing Pokemon tries to set up entry hazards first, then Froslass can get a layer of Spikes down first before suiciding with Destiny Bond.

Froslass enjoys Swampert, Infernape, Heatran, Bronzong, non-Scarfed Jirachi, Hippowdon, Roserade, and Ninjask leads. Against the first five leads, Froslass can either Taunt and set up a minimum of one layer of Spikes, a Destiny Bond kill, or both depending on if the opponent attacked first turn. If you forego the Taunt first turn, Froslass gets up a minimum of two layers of Spikes or one layer of Spikes and a Destiny Bond kill. If any of those leads decides to set up Stealth Rock, that's a minimum of three layers as Froslass goes down, or two layers of Spikes and a kill with Destiny Bond. Against Hippowdon leads, Ice Beam is an easy 2HKO, with Taunt available to prevent Stealth Rock. With Roserade leads, you always want to Taunt first to prevent Sleep Powder, and then continue setting up Spikes and using Destiny Bond at the appropriate time. As for Ninjask, Froslass Taunts through the Substitute, and then either sets up Spikes or kills Ninjask with Ice Beam.

Froslass has problems with faster leads such as Aerodactyl and Azelf, as their faster Speed allows them to Taunt Froslass first, preventing it from setting up Spikes. They can then set up their own Stealth Rock and attack you. Lead Metagross, lead Mamoswine, and lead Choice Scarf Jirachi all cause problems for Froslass. Lead Metagross can 2HKO Froslass with a combination of Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch, Earthquake and Bullet Punch, or two Bullet Punches, while all Froslass can do is Taunt or set up a layer of Spikes. A similar situation occurs against lead Mamoswine, which can 2HKO Froslass with a combination of Earthquake and Ice Shard, while Froslass can only, once again, set up a layer of Spikes or Taunt Mamoswine to prevent it from setting up Stealth Rock. Lead Jirachi can 2HKO Froslass with Iron Head and prevent it from doing anything 60% of the time, due to Iron Head's flinch rate. Tyranitar has Sand Stream, and if it attacks first turn, can KO Froslass in one turn, since the sandstorm nullifies Focus Sash.

To combat these opposing leads, a variety of Pokemon may be used. To handle Aerodactyl and Azelf, you can either attack straight on with Ice Beam, but they'll have accomplished their goal – Taunt the opposing lead and set up their own Stealth Rock. Magnezone can handle both Metagross and Jirachi. Magnezone can outpace lead Metagross and Magnet Rise before Metagross can use Earthquake, but it does need to watch out for Earthquake when switching in. Magnezone can take down Jirachi that are locked into Iron Head and trap it, thanks to Magnet Pull; however, it still has to watch out for Fire Punch, and U-turn will allow Jirachi to escape from Magnezone's clutches. Bronzong helps take down Mamoswine with Gyro Ball or can set up Stealth Rock to help out the team. Another choice is Swampert, who helps with Aerodactyl, Metagross, Jirachi, and Tyranitar by hitting them with Surf, Ice Beam, or Earthquake. It can also set up Stealth Rock and provides Froslass with a Fire resistance.

While Froslass is a Ghost-type Pokemon, it usually cannot last long enough to switch back later on in the match. This allows Rapid Spinners like Forretress and Tentacruel to switch in and spin away your Spikes. Rotom-H would make a good partner to Froslass, as it not only blocks Rapid Spin, but can scare away both Forretress and Tentacruel with Overheat and STAB Thunderbolt, respectively.

[SET]
name: Snow Cloak Abuser
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Spikes
move 4: Blizzard / Ice Beam / Confuse Ray
item: Leftovers / BrightPowder
nature: Timid
evs: 32 HP / 224 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
While Froslass can make a reliable lead, you cannot forget about its ability: Snow Cloak. This set abuses that ability, along with the parafusion combination, to cause plenty of stress for your opponent. For example, having the opposing Pokemon paralyzed and hail falling, Froslass will only be hit by a 100% accuracy move 60% of the time. Add in confusion and that brings it down to 30%, allowing Froslass to either set up Spikes or attack with its STAB move.

Substitute allows you to stall until the opposing Pokemon misses an attack. Even if they do hit, with Leftovers, Froslass is only losing 18.75% of its HP per turn. Thunder Wave has a dual purpose here. Firstly, it causes the enemy's Speed to drop down to one-fourth of its original Speed, allowing Froslass to get up a Substitute against it first. Secondly, it imposes the opponent from attacking, allowing Froslass to perform its job more easily. While Froslass has a Substitute up, it can set up Spikes. Spikes, along with hail, are going to slowly wear down the enemy. The last slot is for either attacking or more utility if you feel it is necessary. Blizzard takes advantage of the hail, as the accuracy will be 100% while hail falling. Ice Beam is there for the extra PP and accuracy outside of hail, but it is weaker. Confuse Ray allows for the dreaded parafusion, but it does leave Froslass with no attacking moves at all, causing it to be Taunt bait for things like Taunt Gyarados to set up on. Those Taunters still have to worry about a Thunder Wave due to Froslass's Speed.

Leftovers is the main item of this set. Along with the given EVs, it allows you to Substitute five times in a row while waiting for the opponent to miss thanks to Snow Cloak's evasion boost. Leftovers also help Froslass gain HP back while the enemy is missing their attacks. BrightPowder may be used as an alternate item, but it is inferior to Leftovers because it does nothing if your opponent is taking the time to set up their own entry hazards or boosting their own stats with moves like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot. Leftovers allows you to continue healing while your opponent is attempting to set up, allowing you to create more Substitutes.

The given Speed EVs and nature allow Froslass to be as fast as possible, beating anything below 350 Speed and allowing you to tie with Gengar and Latias. 32 HP EVs gives you a Leftovers number plus one, allowing Froslass to create five Substitutes in a row. The remaining EVs go into Special Attack to boost your attacking move. If using Confuse Ray, you would want to give it 248 HP EVs for the most durable Substitutes, as maxing out HP EVs would cause Froslass to die from four switch ins with Stealth Rock on the field and only allowing it to create three Substitutes at max HP. The remaining EVs that were previously in Special Attack can be moved to one of the defensive stats in order to bolster them.

In order to play this set out, Abomasnow is absolutely required to be on your team. Its ability, Snow Warning, brings permanent hail onto the battlefield and activates Froslass’s ability. However, both Abomasnow and Froslass have trouble with Steel- and Fire-type moves often wielded by Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon. While Froslass may be able to Thunder Wave those Pokemon, it cannot do anything else against them. For this reason, Abomasnow could be of the SubPunching variant to take out Steel-type Pokemon or may choose to carry Earthquake to deal with both Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon.

Having both Abomasnow and Froslass on one team creates many weaknesses. As mentioned in the previous paragraph, they have problems with Steel- and Fire-types, along with Rock-type attacks. A bulky Water-type handles the first two types. Suicune can use its impressive defenses to wall moves on both sides of the spectrum. Vaporeon can do the same, along with providing the team with Wish support. Wish support is recommended because both Abomasnow and Froslass are weak to Stealth Rock. Swampert can wall all three attacking types and can set up Stealth Rock for the team. Both Swampert and Suicune also have the ability to Roar out any opposing Pokemon, causing more residual damage by means of Spikes, Stealth Rock, and hail. Tentacruel can use its Water-typing and high Special Defense to take any Fire-type moves, can absorb any Toxic Spikes on your side of the field, and can spin away Stealth Rock and Spikes. Tentacruel may be used for Toxic Spikes support, but this may inhibit Froslass's ability to paralyze enemies as they will have been poisoned on the switch. Heatran can use its ability to switch into Fire-type attacks, and also resists Steel-type attacks, while Froslass’s Ghost-typing allows it to switch into Fighting-type moves like Close Combat.

A hail team's greatest nemeses are Tyranitar and Hippowdon, both of which cause permanent sandstorm with their abilities. Tyranitar's Rock-typing not only gives it a Special Defense boost from sandstorm, but also allows it to hit Froslass and Abomasnow for both STAB and super effective damage. Hippowdon's Ground-typing allows it to switch in on Thunder Wave, but it will fear Blizzard and Ice Beam. Swampert can handle Tyranitar with Earthquake and Hippowdon with Surf or Ice Beam. Abomasnow can Wood Hammer or Earthquake Tyranitar's switch-in or do the same with Blizzard for Hippowdon. The bulky Water-types mentioned previously also do well at scaring them off, as neither Tyranitar or Hippowdon want to get hit by a STAB Surf.

Because this set is not a lead, it can switch in later on in the game to block Rapid Spin. However, Froslass cannot do much against Forretress and Tentacruel offensively because both of them resist Ice-type attacks, while Thunder Wave actually makes Forretress's Gyro Ball stronger. Once again, Rotom-H would make a good partner for reasons mentioned in the previous set.

[Team Options]
Because Froslass is mainly a support Pokemon, it will appreciate Pokemon that resist its weaknesses. Unfortunately for Froslass, those types of attacks are very common; fortunately, many Pokemon resist these threatening attacks. Due to Froslass’s low Special Attack stat, it will be hard-pressed to even kill Pokemon that take neutral damage from its STAB attacks, so employing certain Pokemon to help take care of these threats is also necessary.

Froslass is weak against many common attacking types. For example, due to its Ice-typing, Froslass is weak to Rock-, Steel-, and Fire-type moves. Due to its Ghost-typing, Froslass is weak against Ghost- and Dark-type moves. From a defensive standpoint, Rock-type moves can be taken on by a bulky Ground- or Steel-type Pokemon. Swampert resists not only Rock-type attacks but also Fire-type attacks and can Roar out opposing Pokemon to rack up residual damage. Metagross can use its impressive physical bulk to also resist Rock-type moves and threaten the opposing Pokemon with a STAB Meteor Mash. For the Steel-type weakness, a bulky Water-type Pokemon may be used. Vaporeon, Swampert, and Suicune all fit that spot, as their Water-typing and impressive physical bulk allows them to resist any Steel-type attacks. All three can also Roar out opposing Pokemon to shuffle the opponent's team. Heatran can also be used, as it provides a 4x resistance against Steel-type moves. The bulky Waters and Heatran can also resist Fire-type attacks and either hit those Pokemon back with a STAB Surf or a super effective Earth Power. Snorlax can use its Thick Fat ability along with Special Defense to soak up Fire-type moves.

Froslass also fears opposing Ghost-type moves. Once again, Snorlax can help Froslass by neutralizing any of these threats and hitting the opposing Pokemon with a super effective Crunch or catch them fleeing with a Pursuit. Heatran also resists these attacks due to its Steel-typing. Finally, Dark-type moves are Froslass’s bane, as Pursuit often traps Froslass in. As switching out would cause Froslass to faint due to Pursuit, you might want to have a Pokemon that capitalizes on these Choiced Pursuits. Lucario and Scizor can both easily set up a Swords Dance and sweep the opposing team. Due to the Spikes that Froslass has set up, opposing counters will find it harder to counter Lucario and Scizor. Lucario also provides Froslass with a Rock-resist, though you should not switch blindly into Stone Edge, as they will still hurt.

As Froslass’s ability suggests, putting it on a team with Abomasnow can be helpful, allowing it to dodge potentially fatal attacks. However, both share a Fire- and Rock-type weakness, so having Pokemon that can resist these moves is also helpful. Swampert can resist both of these types and immediately threaten them with a STAB Surf or Hydro Pump. The other bulky Water-types can also help with this problem. However, even when not using Abomasnow, you must have an answer for Tyranitar. Due to sandstorm and the special bulk gained from it, it can easily switch in on Ice Beam and Shadow Ball. Scizor can switch in on Tyranitar's Crunch and threaten it with a STAB Bullet Punch or U-turn. Metagross can do the same and threaten it with a STAB Meteor Mash. Swampert once again can help, hitting Tyranitar with a STAB Earthquake. Froslass also has problems with Scizor and Metagross, as both have Pursuit to catch switching Froslass and Bullet Punch to bypass its Speed. Magnezone can help out against both, with Hidden Power Fire or Thunderbolt for both of them. It does need to invest speed in order to outpace opposing Metagross and Magnet Rise before they can Earthquake. Rotom-H resists Bullet Punch and can hit both with Overheat, killing or crippling them. Heatran is also an issue, resisting both Ice Beam and Shadow Ball. Any bulky Water-type takes care of Heatran, but all must watch out for Explosion.

As mentioned before, Froslass may be able to block Rapid Spin, but struggles to deal with the common Rapid Spinners. A Rotom appliance would help with this, as its neutrality to Stealth Rock and STAB Thunderbolt deter Forretress and Tentacruel from staying in. Rotom-H can also use Overheat to deal with Forretress.

[Other Options]
When considering a Hidden Power type, remember that an unresisted STAB Ice Beam does slightly more than a 2x Hidden Power. Hidden Power Fighting may be used to combat Tyranitar, 2HKOing the standard 176/0 neutral natured Choice Band Tyranitar with both Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes down. It does leave Froslass with a 30 Speed IV, which means it loses to other base 110s like Latias and Gengar. Hidden Power Ground can be used for Heatran, with a 20.51% chance of OHKOing the standard 4/0 neutral natured Choice Scarf Heatran with Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes down. Hidden Power Grass can be used for Swampert, 2HKOing the 252/0 neutral natured Mixpert set. Hidden Power Fire snags an OHKO on any unsuspecting Forretress, but also leaves it with a 30 Speed IV. Psychic can be used for Heracross, but leaves Froslass more vulnerable to Dark-type Pokemon and Shadow Ball is generally better. Thunderbolt allows you to hit Water-types that resist Ice Beam.

Froslass can also use an offensively based set, composed of Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, and a Hidden Power or Trick if Froslass is holding a Choice item. However, Gengar is generally a better idea for this, as its higher Special Attack allows it to deal more damage. Froslass can also use a set with Trick to debilitate its opponents and then begin to set up Spikes, but its low defenses make it hard to do so effectively.

As for support options, Light Screen and Safeguard may be used, but Froslass is generally too frail to continuously set them up. Block can be used along with Destiny Bond and Taunt to force a kill but is a one-time deal. Unfortunately, Block is illegal with Spikes. Snatch can steal a Substitute or stat boosts from your opponent if they try to set up in front of Froslass to avoid Destiny Bond. Swagger can be used over Confuse Ray on the Snow Cloak set, but its 90% accuracy and +2 Attack boost once the confusion wears off can be dangerous.

[EVs]
With both sets, 252 EVs in Speed along with a Timid nature is required, as this boosts Froslass’s most impressive stat: Speed. 252 EVs go into Special Attack go into any set that has an attacking move to allow Froslass to deal as much damage as it can. The remaining 4 EVs go into Defense to boost its defenses. If using Ice Shard, reallocate 252 EVs into Attack instead of Special Attack and give it a Jolly nature instead.

No HP EVs allow Froslass to switch in four times and still live with one HP left. If using a set that doesn't have an attack, give it 248 HP EVs, as maxing it out causes Froslass to die from four switch ins with Stealth Rock on the field. The remaining 8 EVs can go into either Defense or Special Defense to boost its overall defenses.

[Opinion]
Froslass is an interesting Pokemon, as it is the only Ghost-type Pokemon that can also set up Spikes. The Suicide Lead set almost always sets up at least one layer of Spikes, while the Snow Cloak set can set up more than one layer if the evasion boost kicks in. However, its success is limited to supporting, as Gengar outclasses it offensively. It also has a nasty weakness to Stealth Rock, meaning it cannot be a reliable spin-blocker. Nevertheless, with its myriad of support moves, Froslass can be a worthy asset to many teams.

[Counters]
Froslass’s main counter is Tyranitar, as Sand Stream immediately takes out any hail falling on the field and can threaten Froslass with Pursuit, Crunch, or Stone Edge. Its ability causes a sandstorm, giving it a Special Defense boost, which allows Tyranitar to shrug off any Ice Beams. Scizor and Metagross can both come in on Ice Beam or Shadow Ball and bypass Froslass’s speed with Bullet Punch or catch it switching out with a Pursuit. Snorlax can Pursuit or Crunch Froslass, depending on if it stays in or not.

As a lead, Azelf and Aerodactyl both shut it down, as their higher Speed coupled with Taunt prevents Froslass from setting up any Spikes. Although Froslass can 2HKO them with Ice Beam, they will have still managed to set up Stealth Rock.

On the Snow Cloak set, Swampert is a good counter against Froslass, with its immunity to Thunder Wave and neutrality to Blizzard or Ice Beam. Swampert can either Roar away Froslass or attack it with Earthquake or Surf.

Any faster Taunter can force Froslass to attack and stop using support moves, as Substitute does not block Taunt. Slower Taunters have to watch out for Thunder Wave.

Froslass’s success is tied to its Speed. If you can inflict paralysis upon it, Froslass will be effectively neutered. Barring that, Bullet Punch, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch all have priority, bypassing Froslass’s impressive Speed and scoring super effective damage. Stealth Rock also prevents Froslass from switching in too many times. Since its defenses are not that impressive, hitting Froslass with any neutral attack will cause severe damage to it, most likely causing it to die from another switch in.

Xia · Aug 6, 2009

I'm assuming that since this set looks and seems completed, it could use a quick proofread.

Changes
[Comments]

supermarth64 said:
[SET COMMENTS]
Froslass, with its base 110 Speed and immunity to both Fake Out and Explosion is a reliable lead, Taunting opposing leads to prevent them from setting up Stealth Rock, setting up Spikes, and taking down your opponent with Destiny Bond.

Spikes is the main move in this set, causing residual damage whenever the opponent switches Pokemon. Taunt helps prevent slower leads from setting up Stealth Rock. Taunt also works in conjunction with Destiny Bond, as it forces your opponent to attack you, allowing Froslass to take the opposing lead down with it. STAB Ice Beam rounds out the set, allowing you to 2HKO all Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Hippowdon leads. Shadow Ball may be used as an alternate STAB source, but you lose the Aerodactyl and Hippowdon kills while gaining a 2HKO on Naive Infernape leads, although only 80.08% of the time.

Focus Sash allows you to survive a hit and then take down the opposing lead with Destiny Bond or set up another layer of Spikes. If the opposing Pokemon tries to attack first, then Froslass can Taunt and Destiny Bond the opposing Pokemon, preventing both sides from setting up entry hazards. If the opposing Pokemon tries to set up entry hazards first, then Froslass can get a layer of Spikes down first before suiciding with Destiny Bond.

Froslass enjoys Swampert, Infernape, Heatran, Bronzong, non-Scarfed Jirachi, Roserade, and Ninjask leads. Against the first five leads, Froslass can either Taunt and set up a minimum of one layer of Spikes, a Destiny Bond kill, or both depending on if the opponent attacked first turn. If you forego the Taunt first turn, Froslass gets up a minimum of two layers of Spikes or one layer of Spikes and a Destiny Bond kill. If any of those leads decides to set up Stealth Rock, that's a minimum of three layers as Froslass goes down, or two layers of Spikes and a kill with Destiny Bond. With Roserade leads, you always want to Taunt first to prevent Sleep Powder, and then continue setting up Spikes and using Destiny Bond at the appropriate time. As for Ninjask, Froslass Taunts when it can, and then either sets up Spikes or kills Ninjask with Ice Beam.

Froslass has problems with faster leads such as Aerodactyl and Azelf, as their higher Speed allows them to Taunt Froslass first, preventing it from setting up Spikes. They can then set up their own Stealth Rock and attack you. Lead Metagross, lead Mamoswine, and lead Choice Scarf Jirachi all cause problems for Froslass. Lead Metagross can 2HKO Froslass with a combination of Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch, Earthquake and Bullet Punch, or two Bullet Punches, while all that Froslass can do is Taunt or set up a layer of Spikes. A similar situation occurs against lead Mamoswine, which can 2HKO Froslass with a combination of Earthquake and Ice Shard, while Froslass can once again, only set up a layer of Spikes or Taunt Mamoswine to prevent it from setting up Stealth Rock. Lead Jirachi can 2HKO Froslass with Iron Head and prevent it from doing anything 60% of the time, due to Iron Head's flinch rate. Both Tyranitar and Hippowdon have Sand Stream, which nullifies Froslass's Focus Sash. [this sentence seems tagged on, perhaps elaborating in a seperate, brief paragraph would suffice]

To combat these opposing leads, a variety of Pokemon may be used. To handle Aerodactyl and Azelf, you can either attack straight on with Ice Beam, but they'll have accomplished their goal: Taunt the opposing lead and set up their own Stealth Rock. Magnezone can handle both Metagross and Jirachi. Magnezone can outpace Metagross and Magnet Rise before Metagross can use Earthquake, but it does need to watch out for Earthquake when switching in. Magnezone can take down Jirachi since it gets trapped due to Magnet Pull and Iron Head won't be doing that much to Magnezone. Bronzong helps take down Mamoswine with Gyro Ball or can set up Stealth Rock to help out the team. Another choice is Swampert, which helps with Aerodactyl, Metagross, Jirachi, and Tyranitar by hitting them with Surf, Ice Beam, or Earthquake. It can also set up Stealth Rock and provides Froslass with a Fire resistance.

While Froslass is a Ghost-type Pokemon, it usually cannot last long enough to switch back later on in the match. This allows Rapid Spinners like Forretress and Tentacruel to switch in and Spin away your Spikes. Rotom-H would make a good partner to Froslass, as it not only blocks Rapid Spin, but can scare away both Forretress and Tentacruel with Overheat and STAB Thunderbolt, respectively.

Well written set overall. I look forward to seeing the rest of the update completed.

Bologo · Aug 9, 2009

Honestly, I'd highly recommend putting Ice Shard with 252 Atk EVs Jolly over Ice Beam with 252 SpA EVs Timid. Froslass isn't really supposed to be attacking opposing leads that much, since it's just supposed to set up Spikes like a maniac.

The only two leads that Froslass will really be attacking are Aerodactyl and Ninjask leads, and they're both faster than it, allowing them to beat it. They can both be 2HKOed by Ice Shard though (it isn't guaranteed against Aero, but it's possible). Aerodactyl will generally Taunt 1st turn against Froslass, which lets you Ice Shard it, and then Ice Shard again so it doesn't get up any rocks, letting Froslass come in again to set up Spikes later. Ninjask will just Substitute against you, meaning that Ice Beam is not going to beat it, and setting up Spikes against Ninjask leads is a horrible idea. Letting them get the pass off is suicide. Ice Shard, however, can beat a Subbing Ninjask.

I know that Azelf is a faster lead, but honestly, Froslass has no chance against Azelf leads from my experience. Most of the time they just Taunt if you try to Spike, and they can set up rocks and leave you with 1% from Flamethrower, meaning that Froslass has accomplished nothing against Azelf while being at near fatal health.

In addition, against slower leads, Froslass is just going to set up as many Spikes as it can, and once it's gotten 3 up, Destiny Bond. That's the only real way it needs to deal damage, and it's a lot more effective than using Ice Beam IMO.

For these reasons, I'd highly recommend changing Ice Beam to Ice Shard, or at least make Ice Shard the recommended option and slash it with Ice Beam.

supermarth64 · Aug 9, 2009

Made Xia's changes, done with 2nd set, hopefully 3rd set by end of today.

To Bologo's comments: I'll test it out, I know that you had that on one of your RMTs. The only one I think it would be helpful against is Aerodactyl, as with Ninjask, if the opponent plays correctly, can get at least 1 speed boost off. Taunt actually goes through Substitute, so it can't pass off while Froslass manages to get off one layer and then Destiny Bond.

Agreed on how Azelf screws you over anyway.

I'll make a note of it in the set comments, probably before Shadow Ball.

Xia · Aug 9, 2009

supermarth64 said:
[SET]
name: Snow Cloak Abuser
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Spikes
move 4: Blizzard / Ice Beam / Confuse Ray
item: Leftovers / BrightPowder
nature: Timid
evs: 32 HP / 224 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
While Froslass can make a reliable lead, you cannot forget about its ability: Snow Cloak. This set abuses that ability, along with the parafusion, to cause plenty of stress towards your opponent. For example, having the opposing Pokemon paralyzed and hail falling, Froslass will only be hit by a 100% accuracy move 60% of the time. Add in confusion and that brings it down to 30%, allowing Froslass to either set up Spikes or attack with its STAB move.

Substitute allows you to stall until the opposing Pokemon misses an attack. Even if they do hit, with Leftovers, Froslass is only losing 18.75% of its HP per turn. Thunder Wave has a dual purpose here. Firstly, it causes the enemy's Speed to drop down to one-fourth of its original Speed, allowing Froslass to get up a Substitute against it first. Secondly, it imposes the opponent from attacking, allowing Froslass to perform its job more easily. While Froslass has a Substitute up, it can set up Spikes. Spikes along with hail are going to slowly take down the enemy. The last slot is for either attacking or more utility if you feel it is necessary. Blizzard takes advantage of the hail, as the accuracy will be 100% while hail is up. Ice Beam is there for the extra PP, but it is weaker. Confuse Ray allows for the dreaded parafusion, but it does leave Froslass with no attacking moves at all, causing it to be Taunt bait.

Leftovers is the main item of this set. Along with the given EVs, it allows you to Substitute five times in a row while waiting for a Snow Cloak miss. Leftovers also help because Froslass gains HP back while the enemy is missing their attacks. BrightPowder may be used as an alternate item, but it is inferior to Leftovers because it does nothing if your opponent is taking the time to set up their own entry hazards or boosting their own stats with moves like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot. Leftovers allows you to continue healing while your opponent is attempting to set up, allowing you to create more Substitutes.

The given Speed EVs and nature allow Froslass to be as fast as possible, beating anything below positive natured Gengar and Latias. 32 HP EVs gives you a Leftovers number plus one, allowing Froslass to create five Substitutes in a row. The remaining EVs go into Special Attack to boost your attacking move. If using Confuse Ray, you would want to give it 248 HP EVs for the most durable Substitutes while maxing out HP EVs would cause Froslass to be both Stealth Rock weak and only allowing it to create three Substitutes at max HP. The remaining EVs that were previously in Special Attack can be moved to one of the defensive stats in order to bolster them.

In order to play this set out, Abomasnow is absolutely required to be on your team. Its ability Snow Warning brings permanent hail onto the battlefield and activates Froslass' ability. However, both Abomasnow and Froslass have trouble with Steel- and Fire-type moves, often wielded by Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon. While Froslass may be able to Thunder Wave those Pokemon, it cannot do anything else against them. For this reason, Abomasnow may be of the SubPunching variant to take out Steel-type Pokemon or may choose to carry Earthquake to deal with both Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon.

Having both Abomasnow and Froslass on one team leaves for many weaknesses. As mentioned in the previous paragraph, they have problems with Steel- and Fire-types, along with Rock-type attacks. A bulky Water-type handles the first two types. Suicune can use its impressive defenses to wall moves on both sides of the spectrum. Vaporeon can do the same, along with providing the team with Wish support. Wish support is recommended because both Abomasnow and Froslass are weak to Stealth Rock. Swampert can wall all three attacking types and can set up Stealth Rock for the team. Both Swampert and Suicune also have the ability to Roar out any opposing Pokemon, causing more residual damage by means of Spikes, Stealth Rock, and hail. Tentacruel can use its Water-typing and high Special Defense to take any Fire-type moves. Heatran can use its ability to switch into Fire-type attacks, and also resists Steel-types, while Froslass's Ghost-typing allows it to switch into Fighting-type moves like Close Combat.

A hail team's greatest nemeses are Tyranitar and Hippowdon, both of which cause permanent sandstorm with their abilities. Tyranitar's Rock-typing allows it to not only receive a Special Defense boost from sandstorm, but also allows it to hit Froslass and Abomasnow for both STAB and super effective damage. Hippowdon's physical bulk allows it to easily switch in and set up sandstorm also. Swampert can handle Tyranitar with Earthquake and Hippowdon with Surf or Ice Beam. Because Abomasnow is in play, Blizzard may be substituted for Ice Beam on Swampert [but sandstorm negates the accuracy boost?]. Abomasnow can Wood Hammer or Earthquake Tyranitar's switch in or do the same with Blizzard for Hippowdon. The bulky Water-types mentioned previously also do well at scaring them off, as neither Tyranitar or Hippowdon want to get hit by a STAB Surf.

Because this set is not a lead, it can switch in later on in the game to block Rapid Spin. However, Froslass cannot do much against Forretress or Tentacruel because both of them resist Ice-typ[e attacks, and Thunder Wave actually makes Forretress's Gyro Ball stronger. Once again, Rotom-H would make a good partner for reasons mentioned in the previous set.

Nice write-up. Remeber, though, that when listing multiple types each should end with a hyphen.

supermarth64 · Aug 15, 2009

Another bump, did rest of non-sets, removed attacking sets, need opinions on "Crafty Tricks" set.

mtr · Aug 15, 2009

Current Analysis said:
This Froslass can be used as a makeshift anti-lead.

Well...

Azelf: gets up Stealth Rock, meaning that it has succeeded. The best you can do is kill it or Trick it, and it doesn't care about Choice Scarf.

Metagross: MM + BP defeat you.

Aerodactyl: gets up Stealth Rock, meaning that it has succeeded. You can kill it.

Jirachi: defeats you, has a Scarf anyways.

Heatran: Destiny Bond is all you can do. That's not winning. It might even get up Stealth Rock, adding insult to injury.

Swampert: you win here.

Infernape: you lose. Destiny Bond is all, and it can get up SR.

Hippowdon: you win here, I guess.

Bronzong: you can annoy it with Trick, but Gyro Ball beats you.

Ninjask: completes it's mission with Protect and Substitute. You lose.

That really kind of sucks. You only unequivocally beat Swampert and Hippowdon.

The set is really horrible outside the role of leading too. You might be able to do a bit of revenging/Spike setup (with Scizor and Heatran everywhere, probably not). But Skarmory and Gengar do it better anyways.

I vote for removal.

Stellar · Aug 15, 2009

If you decide not to include it, I would mention the fact that it can potentially screw over Forretress hoping to kill you with Payback and then spin (of course, you would have to hit it with Trick on the switch), somewhere in Other Options or something. Trick Froslass shouldn't serve as a lead and would probably be better suited to setting up Spikes somewhere early-mid game.

mtr · Aug 15, 2009

Probably, but the trick is finding an opening to set up Spikes. Things like Roserade and Smeargle have it easy because of sleep. Things like Skarmory, Forretress, and Tentacruel have impressive defensive potential. Froslass has nothing but it's speed and typing, which really is a mixed bag with Scizor, Tyranitar, and Heatran running around everywhere.

Spike setups are probably best as a lead, though they can work elsewhere. It's just hard.

Flashstorm1 · Aug 15, 2009

supermarth64 said:
Read below picture part.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/froslass
Removed the attacking sets (outclassed by Gengar, even with STAB Ice Beam).
Not sure about "Crafty Tricks" set yet, will do additional testing. Would prefer some opinions.

[SET]
name: Suicide Lead
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Destiny Bond
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Focus Sash
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Froslass, with its base 110 Speed and immunity to both Fake Out and Explosion, is a reliable lead, Taunting opposing leads to prevent them from setting up Stealth Rock, setting up Spikes, and taking down your opponent with Destiny Bond.

In my opinion, I think that you may want to re-organize some of the thoughts presented, as the sentence itself, while readable, seemed to flow on too much as it is. I recommend something like...

"Froslass is a considerably good lead in today's metagame, as its base 110 Speed, along with its immunity to Fake Out and Explosion, allow it to fare well against some of the more commonly seen leads. Opposing leads that attempt to lay down a layer of Stealth Rock are shut down by Taunt, while Spikes can be used as the opposing Pokémon decides to attack. Destiny Bond ensures that you will take down anything slower than you, provided you don't get hit by a priority move, such as Bullet Punch, beforehand."

Changing the opening paragraph to what I provided allows for a better flow of thoughts, as well as expanded comments on each of the attacking moves.

Spikes is the main move in this set, causing residual damage whenever the opponent switches Pokemon. Taunt helps prevent slower leads from setting up Stealth Rock. Taunt also works in conjunction with Destiny Bond, as it forces your opponent to attack you, allowing Froslass to take the opposing lead down with it. (Here, you kind of repeat what was stated in the first paragraph, so you may just want to shorten it to "...with Taunt and Destiny Bond serving the same purpose mentioned previously.") STAB Ice Beam rounds out the set, allowing you to 2HKO all Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Hippowdon leads. Ice Shard may be used to 2HKO Aerodactyl, as its priority will cause Aerodactyl to either Taunt or set up Stealth Rock before dying, but in exchange, KOs on Azelf and Hippowdon are lost (removed "though"). If using Ice Shard, use 252 Attack EVs instead of Special Attack and (removed "use") a Jolly nature instead. Shadow Ball may be used for its (replaced "as an" with "for its") alternate STAB source, but you lose the KOs on Aerodactyl and Hippowdon, while gaining a 2HKO on Naive Infernape leads, although only 80.08% of the time.

Focus Sash allows you to survive a hit and then take down the opposing lead with Destiny Bond or set up another layer of Spikes. If the opposing Pokemon tries to attack first, then Froslass can Taunt and Destiny Bond the opposing Pokemon, preventing both sides from setting up entry hazards. If the opposing Pokemon tries to set up entry hazards first, then Froslass can get a layer of Spikes down first before suiciding with Destiny Bond.

Froslass enjoys Swampert, Infernape, Heatran, Bronzong, non-Scarfed Jirachi, Hippowdon, Roserade, and Ninjask leads. Against the first five leads, Froslass can either Taunt and set up a minimum of one layer of Spikes, a Destiny Bond kill, or both depending on if the opponent attacked first turn. If you forego the Taunt first turn, Froslass gets up a minimum of two layers of Spikes or one layer of Spikes and a Destiny Bond kill. If any of those leads decides to set up Stealth Rock, that's a minimum of three layers as Froslass goes down, or two layers of Spikes and a kill with Destiny Bond. Against Hippowdon leads, Ice Beam is an easy 2HKO, with Taunt available to prevent Stealth Rock. With Roserade leads, you always want to Taunt first to prevent Sleep Powder, and then continue setting up Spikes and using Destiny Bond at the appropriate time. As for Ninjask, Froslass Taunts when it can, and then either sets up Spikes or kills Ninjask with Ice Beam.

Froslass has problems with faster leads such as Aerodactyl and Azelf, as their faster speed allows them to Taunt Froslass first, preventing it from setting up Spikes. They can then set up their own Stealth Rock and attack you. Lead Metagross, lead Mamoswine, and lead Choice Scarf Jirachi all cause problems for Froslass. Lead Metagross can 2HKO Froslass with a combination of Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch, Earthquake and Bullet Punch, or two Bullet Punches, while all that Froslass can do is Taunt or set up a layer of Spikes. A similar situation occurs against lead Mamoswine, which can 2HKO Froslass with a combination of Earthquake and Ice Shard, while Froslass can once again, only set up a layer of Spikes or Taunt Mamoswine to prevent it from setting up Stealth Rock. Lead Jirachi can 2HKO Froslass with Iron Head and prevent it from doing anything 60% of the time, due to Iron Head's flinch rate. Tyranitar has Sand Stream, and if it attacks first turn, can take Froslass down with it.

To combat these opposing leads, a variety of Pokemon may be used. To handle Aerodactyl and Azelf, you can either attack straight on with Ice Beam, but they'll have accomplished their goal: Taunt the opposing lead and set up their own Stealth Rock. Magnezone can handle both Metagross and Jirachi. Magnezone can outpace lead Metagross and Magnet Rise before Metagross can use Earthquake, but it does need to watch out for Earthquake when switching in. Magnezone can take down Jirachi since it gets trapped due to Magnet Pull, and Iron Head won't be doing that much to Magnezone. Bronzong helps take down Mamoswine with Gyro Ball or can set up Stealth Rock to help out the team. Another choice is Swampert, which helps with Aerodactyl, Metagross, Jirachi, and Tyranitar by hitting them with Surf, Ice Beam, or Earthquake. It can also set up Stealth Rock and provides Froslass with a Fire resistance.

While Froslass is a Ghost-type Pokemon, it usually cannot last long enough to switch back later on in the match. This allows Rapid Spinners like Forretress and Tentacruel to switch in and spin away your Spikes. Rotom-H would make a good partner to Froslass, as it not only blocks Rapid Spin, but can scare away both Forretress and Tentacruel with Overheat and STAB Thunderbolt, respectively.

[SET]
name: Snow Cloak Abuser
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Spikes
move 4: Blizzard / Ice Beam / Confuse Ray
item: Leftovers / BrightPowder
nature: Timid
evs: 32 HP / 224 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
While Froslass can make a reliable lead, you cannot forget about its ability: Snow Cloak. This set abuses that ability, along with the parafusion, to cause plenty of stress towards your opponent. For example, having the opposing Pokemon paralyzed and hail falling, Froslass will only be hit by a 100% accuracy move 60% of the time. Add in confusion and that brings it down to 30%, allowing Froslass to either set up Spikes or attack with its STAB move.

Substitute allows you to stall until the opposing Pokemon misses an attack. Even if they do hit, with Leftovers, Froslass is only losing 18.75% of its HP per turn. Thunder Wave has a dual purpose here. Firstly, it causes the enemy's Speed to drop down to one-fourth of its original Speed, allowing Froslass to get up a Substitute against it first. Secondly, it imposes the opponent from attacking, allowing Froslass to perform its job more easily. While Froslass has a Substitute up, it can set up Spikes. Spikes along with hail are going to slowly wear (replaced "take" with "wear") down the enemy. The last slot is for either attacking or more utility if you feel it is necessary. Blizzard takes advantage of the hail, as the accuracy will be 100% while hail is up. Ice Beam is there for the extra PP, but it is weaker. Confuse Ray allows for the dreaded parafusion, but it does leave Froslass with no attacking moves at all, causing it to be Taunt bait. (You may was well mention what Pokémon are capable of coming in and Taunting it, just to emphasize the fact that it can cripple Froslass.)

Leftovers is the main item of this set. Along with the given EVs, it allows you to Substitute five times in a row while waiting for a Snow Cloak miss. Leftovers also help because Froslass gains HP back while the enemy is missing their attacks. BrightPowder may be used as an alternate item, but it is inferior to Leftovers because it does nothing if your opponent is taking the time to set up their own entry hazards or boosting their own stats with moves like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot. Leftovers allows you to continue healing while your opponent is attempting to set up, allowing you to create more Substitutes.

The given Speed EVs and nature allow Froslass to be as fast as possible, beating anything below 350 Speed (there is no need to be specific) and allowing you to tie with Gengar and Latias. 32 HP EVs gives you a Leftovers number plus one, allowing Froslass to create five Substitutes in a row. The remaining EVs go into Special Attack to boost your attacking move. If using Confuse Ray, you would want to give it 248 HP EVs for the most durable Substitutes, as (replaced "while" with "as") maxing out HP EVs would cause Froslass to be both Stealth Rock weak (What do you mean by "Stealth Rock" weak? It's already weak because of its Ice typing. You may need to either rephrase on emphasize on this, as changing the amount of HP doesn't make you weak/not weak to Stealth Rock.) and only allowing it to create three Substitutes at max HP. The remaining EVs that were previously in Special Attack can be moved to one of the defensive stats in order to bolster them.

In order to play this set out, Abomasnow is absolutely required to be on your team. Its ability Snow Warning brings permanent hail onto the battlefield and activates Froslass’s ability. However, both Abomasnow and Froslass have trouble with Steel- and Fire-type moves, often wielded by Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon. While Froslass may be able to Thunder Wave those Pokemon, it cannot do anything else against them. For this reason, Abomasnow may be of the SubPunching variant to take out Steel-type Pokemon or may choose to carry Earthquake to deal with both Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon.

Having both Abomasnow and Froslass on one team leaves for many weaknesses. As mentioned in the previous paragraph, they have problems with Steel- and Fire-types, along with Rock-type attacks. A bulky Water-type handles the first two types. Suicune can use its impressive defenses to wall moves on both sides of the spectrum. Vaporeon can do the same, along with providing the team with Wish support. Wish support is recommended because both Abomasnow and Froslass are weak to Stealth Rock. Swampert can wall all three attacking types and can set up Stealth Rock for the team. Both Swampert and Suicune also have the ability to Roar out any opposing Pokemon, causing more residual damage by means of Spikes, Stealth Rock, and hail. Tentacruel can use its Water-typing and high Special Defense to take any Fire-type moves. (Since you mention Tentacruel, why not go ahead and mention Toxic Spikes support as well? Since your opponent will be unable to attack you for a part of the time, the poison damage would surely add up, making this set much more effective than it currently is.) Heatran can use its ability to switch into Fire-type attacks, and also resists Steel-type attacks, while Froslass’s Ghost-typing allows it to switch into Fighting-type moves like Close Combat.

A hail team's greatest nemeses are Tyranitar and Hippowdon, both of which cause permanent sandstorm with their abilities. Tyranitar's Rock-typing allows it to not only receive a Special Defense boost from sandstorm, but also allows it to hit Froslass and Abomasnow for both STAB and super effective damage. Hippowdon's physical bulk allows it to easily switch in and set up sandstorm as well (This part is confusing, since Froslass is a special attacker.). Swampert can handle Tyranitar with Earthquake and Hippowdon with Surf or Ice Beam. Abomasnow can Wood Hammer or Earthquake Tyranitar's switch-in or do the same with Blizzard for Hippowdon. The bulky Water-types mentioned previously also do well at scaring them off, as neither Tyranitar or Hippowdon want to get hit by a STAB Surf.

Because this set is not a lead, it can switch in later on in the game to block Rapid Spin. However, Froslass cannot do much against Forretress and Tentacruel because both of them resist Ice-type attacks and Thunder Wave actually makes Forretress's Gyro Ball stronger. Once again, Rotom-H would make a good partner for reasons mentioned in the previous set.

[Team Options]
As Froslass is mainly a support Pokemon, it will appreciate Pokemon that can support it, namely Pokemon that can resist Froslass’s weaknesses. Unfortunately for Froslass, those types of attacks are very common, but fortunately, many Pokemon resist these threats against Froslass. Due to Froslass’s low Special Attack stat, it will be hard-pressed to kill many Pokemon that are even neutral to its STAB attacks, so employing certain Pokemon to help take care of these threats is also necessary.

Froslass is weak against many common attacking types. For example, due to its Ice-typing, Froslass is weak to Rock-, Steel-, and Fire-type moves. Due to its Ghost-typing, Froslass is weak against Ghost- and Dark-type moves as well. From a defensive spectrum, Rock-type moves can be taken on by a bulky Ground- or Steel-type Pokemon. Swampert resists not only Rock-type attacks, but also Fire-type attacks, and can Roar out opposing Pokemon to rack up residual damage. Metagross can use its impressive physical bulk to also resist Rock-type moves and threaten the opposing Pokemon with a STAB Meteor Mash. For the Steel-type weakness, a bulky Water-type Pokemon may be used. Vaporeon, Swampert, and Suicune all fit that spot, as their Water-typing and impressive physical bulk allows them to resist any Steel-type attacks. All three can also Roar out opposing Pokemon to shuffle the opponent's team. Heatran can also be used, as it provides a 4x resistance against Steel-type moves. The bulky Waters and Heatran can also resist Fire-type attacks and either hit those Pokemon back with a STAB Surf or a super effective Earth Power. Snorlax can use its Thick Fat ability along with Special Defense to soak up Fire-type moves.

Froslass also fears opposing Ghost-type moves. Once again, Snorlax can help Froslass by neutralizing any of these threats and hitting the opposing Pokemon with a super effective Crunch or catch them fleeing with a Pursuit. Heatran also resists these attacks due to its Steel-typing. Finally, Dark-type moves are Froslass’s bane, as Pursuit often traps Froslass in. As switching out would cause Froslass to faint due to Pursuit, you might want to have a Pokemon that capitalizes on these Choiced Pursuits. Lucario and Scizor can both easily set up a Swords Dance and sweep the opposing team. Due to the Spikes that Froslass has set up, opposing counters will find it harder to counter Lucario and Scizor. Lucario also provides Froslass with a Rock-resist, though you should not switch blindly into Stone Edge, as they will still hurt.

As Froslass’s ability suggests, putting it on a team with Abomasnow can be helpful, allowing it to dodge potentially fatal attacks. However, both share a Fire- and Rock-type weakness, so having Pokemon that can resist these moves is also helpful. Swampert can resist both of these types and immediately threaten them with a STAB Surf or Hydro Pump. The other bulky Water-types can also help with this problem. However, even when not using Abomasnow, you must have an answer for Tyranitar. Due to sandstorm and the special bulk gained from it, it can easily switch in on Ice Beam and Shadow Ball. Scizor can switch in on Tyranitar and threaten it with a STAB Bullet Punch or U-turn. (This is not true, as a Choice Band Tyranitar can do approximately 80%+ with Stone Edge against 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor.) Metagross can do the same and threaten it with a STAB Meteor Mash. Swampert once again can help, hitting Tyranitar with a STAB Earthquake. Froslass also has problems with Scizor and Metagross, as both have Pursuit to catch switching Froslass and Bullet Punch to bypass its speed. Magnezone can help out against both, with Hidden Power Fire or Thunderbolt for both of them. It does need to invest in Speed in order to outpace opposing Metagross and Magnet Rise before they can Earthquake. Rotom-H resists Bullet Punch and can hit both with Overheat, killing or crippling them. Heatran is also an issue, resisting both Ice Beam and Shadow Ball. Any bulky Water-type takes care of Heatran, but all must watch out for Explosion.

As mentioned before in the sets, Froslass may be able to block Rapid Spin, but struggles to deal with the common Rapid Spinners. A Rotom appliance would help with this, as its neutrality to Stealth Rock and STAB Thunderbolt deter Forretress and Tentacruel from staying in. Rotom-H can also use Overheat to deal with Forretress.

[Other Options]
When considering a Hidden Power type, remember that an unresisted STAB Ice Beam does slightly more than a 2x Hidden Power. Hidden Power Fighting may be used to combat Tyranitar, 2HKOing the standard 176/0 Choice Band Tyranitar with both Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes up. It does leave Froslass with a 30 Speed IV, which means it loses to other base 110s like Latias and Gengar. Hidden Power Ground can be used for Heatran, with a 20.51% chance of OHKOing the standard 4/0 Choice Scarf Heatran with Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes up. Hidden Power Grass can be used for Swampert, 2HKOing the 252/0 Mixpert set. Hidden Power Fire nags an OHKO on any unsuspecting Forretress. Psychic can be used for Heracross, but leaves Froslass more vulnerable to Dark-type Pokemon and that Shadow Ball is generally better.

As for support options, Light Screen and Safeguard may be used, but Froslass is generally too frail to continuously set them up. Block can be used along with Destiny Bond and Taunt to force a kill but is a one-time deal. Unfortunately, Block is illegal with Spikes. Snatch can steal a Substitute or stat boosts from your opponent if they try to set up in front of Froslass to avoid Destiny Bond. Swagger can be used over Confuse Ray on the Snow Cloak set, but its 90% accuracy and +2 Attack boost once the confusion wears off can be dangerous.

Although Froslass does make for a poor special sweeper, I think that Thunderbolt at least deserves a mention in Other Options as well. Thunderbolt allows you to "hit" Water-types resisting Ice Beam, as well as hitting Gyarados, who can set up on you, for super effective.

[EVs]
With any set, 252 EVs in Speed along with a Timid nature is required, as this boosts Froslass’s most impressive stat: Speed. 252 EVs go into Special Attack go into any set that has an attacking move to allow Froslass to deal as much damage as it can. The remaining 4 EVs go into Defense to boost its defenses. If using Ice Shard, reallocate 252 EVs into Attack instead of Special Attack and give it a Jolly nature instead.

No HP EVs allow Froslass to switch in four times and still live with one HP left. If using a set that doesn't have an attack, give it 248 HP EVs, as maxing it out causes Froslass to become Stealth Rock weak. (Read my previous comment in regards to "Stealth Rock weak".) The remaining 8 EVs can go into either Defense or Special Defense.

[Opinion]
Froslass is an interesting Pokemon, as it is the only Ghost-type Pokemon that can also set up Spikes. The Suicide Lead almost always sets up at least one layer of Spikes, while the Snow Cloak set can set up more than one layer. However, its success is limited to supporting, as Gengar outclasses it offensively. It also has a nasty weakness to Stealth Rock, meaning it cannot be a reliable spin-blocker. Nevertheless, with its myriad of support moves, Froslass can be a worthy asset to many teams.

[Counters]
Froslass’s main counter is Tyranitar, as Sand Stream immediately takes out any hail falling on the field and can threaten Froslass with Pursuit, Crunch, or Stone Edge. Its Sand Stream also gives it a Special Defense boost, which allows Tyranitar to shrug off any Ice Beams. Scizor and Metagross can both come in on Ice Beam or Shadow Ball and bypass Froslass’s speed with Bullet Punch or catch it switching out with a Pursuit. Snorlax can Pursuit or Crunch Froslass, depending on if it stays in or not.

As a lead, Azelf and Aerodactyl both shut it down, as their higher (Replaced "faster" with "higher") Speed coupled with Taunt prevents Froslass from setting up any Spikes. Although Froslass can 2HKO them with Ice Beam, they will have still managed to set up Stealth Rock.

On the Snow Cloak set, Swampert is a good counter against Froslass, with its immunity to Thunder Wave and neutrality to Blizzard or Ice Beam. Swampert can either Roar away Froslass or attack it with Earthquake or Surf. Any faster Taunter can force Froslass to attack and stop using support moves, as Substitute does not block Taunt.

Froslass’s success is tied to its Speed. If you can inflict paralysis upon it, Froslass will be effectively neutered. Barring that, Bullet Punch, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch all have priority, bypassing Froslass’s impressive Speed. Stealth Rock also prevents Froslass from switching in too many times. As its defense is not that impressive, hitting Froslass with any neutral attack will cause severe damage to it, most likely causing it to die from another switch in.

I went ahead and edited in some of the mistakes that I caught on the analysis, but we warned that I may have missed a few things.

Overall, nice work!

haunter · Aug 16, 2009

Magnezone can take down Jirachi since it gets trapped due to Magnet Pull and Iron Head won't be doing that much to Magnezone

This is not exact: Magnezone can only take down Scarf Jirachi locked into Iron Head (or Trick if Magnezone holds a Scarf itself), because lead Jirachi always carries either U-turn or Fire Punch to deal with Magnezone.

Leftovers is the main item of this set. Along with the given EVs, it allows you to Substitute five times in a row while waiting for a Snow Cloak miss.

I think that "waiting for the opponent to miss due to Snow Cloak" would sound better.

Heatran can use its ability to switch into Fire-type attacks, and also resists Steel-types, while Froslass’ss Ghost-typing allows it to switch into Fighting-type moves like Close Combat.

For some reason I see 2 "s".

Tentacruel can use its Water-typing and high Special Defense to take any Fire-type moves.

You may also mention that Tentacruel can increase Froslass's and Abomasnow's durability by using Rapid Spin and hence cleaning the field form Stealth Rock and Spikes (and absorbing Toxic Spikes as well).

iss · Aug 16, 2009

Could you post the "Crafty Tricks" set so we can see it?

supermarth64 · Aug 16, 2009

To all: I'll make these changes when I get on the comp (not on it right now).

iss988: That set is in the current analysis.

I knew I forgot something... Should've mentioned the removed offensive sets.

Xia · Aug 17, 2009

It deels good to be singled out to proofread a revamp =P

Suicide Lead:

Spikes is the main move in this set, causing residual damage whenever the opponent switches Pokemon. Taunt and Destiny Bond serve the same purpose mentioned in the previous paragraph. STAB Ice Beam rounds out the set, allowing you to 2HKO all Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Hippowdon leads. Ice Shard may be used to 2HKO Aerodactyl, as its priority will cause Aerodactyl to either Taunt or set up Stealth Rock before dying, but in exchange, KOs on Azelf and Hippowdon are lost. If using Ice Shard, use 252 Attack EVs instead of Special Attack and a Jolly nature,since the Special Attack investment is no longer necessary. Shadow Ball may be used as an alternate STAB source, but you lose the KOs on Aerodactyl and Hippowdon, though do pick up a 2HKO on Naive Infernape leads, although only 80.08% of the time.

Froslass enjoys Swampert, Infernape, Heatran, Bronzong, non-Scarfed Jirachi, Hippowdon, Roserade, and Ninjask leads. Against the first five leads, Froslass can either Taunt and set up a minimum of one layer of Spikes, a Destiny Bond kill, or both depending on if the opponent attacked first turn. If you forego the Taunt first turn, Froslass gets up a minimum of two layers of Spikes or one layer of Spikes and a Destiny Bond kill. If any of those leads decides to set up Stealth Rock, that's a minimum of three layers as Froslass goes down, or two layers of Spikes and a kill with Destiny Bond. Against Hippowdon leads, Ice Beam is an easy 2HKO, with Taunt available to prevent Stealth Rock. With Roserade leads, you always want to Taunt first to prevent Sleep Powder, and then continue setting up Spikes and using Destiny Bond at the appropriate time. As for Ninjask, Froslass Taunts [if you're refering to Taunt while a Substitute is in play, Taunt works through Substitutes iirc], and then either sets up Spikes or kills Ninjask with Ice Beam.

Froslass has problems with faster leads such as Aerodactyl and Azelf, as their faster speed allows them to Taunt Froslass first, preventing it from setting up Spikes. They can then set up their own Stealth Rock and attack you. Lead Metagross, lead Mamoswine, and lead Choice Scarf Jirachi all cause problems for Froslass. Lead Metagross can 2HKO Froslass with a combination of Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch, Earthquake and Bullet Punch, or two Bullet Punches, while all that Froslass can do is Taunt or set up a layer of Spikes. A similar situation occurs against lead Mamoswine, which can 2HKO Froslass with a combination of Earthquake and Ice Shard, while Froslass can only, once again, set up a layer of Spikes or Taunt Mamoswine to prevent it from setting up Stealth Rock. Lead Jirachi can 2HKO Froslass with Iron Head and prevent it from doing anything 60% of the time, due to Iron Head's flinch rate. Tyranitar has Sand Stream, and if it attacks first turn, can KO Froslass in one turn, since the sandstorm it whipps up nullifies Focus Sash.

To combat these opposing leads, a variety of Pokemon may be used. To handle Aerodactyl and Azelf, you can either attack straight on with Ice Beam, but they'll have accomplished their goal: Taunt the opposing lead and set up their own Stealth Rock. Magnezone can handle both Metagross and Jirachi. Magnezone can outpace lead Metagross and Magnet Rise before Metagross can use Earthquake, but it does need to watch out for Earthquake when switching in. Magnezone can take down Jirachi that are locked into Iron Head and trap it, thanks to Magnet Pull [due sounds negative, and this helps you]; however, it still has to watch out for Fire Punch, and U-turn will allow Jirachi to escape from Magnezone's clutches. Bronzong helps take down Mamoswine with Gyro Ball or can set up Stealth Rock to help out the team. Another choice is Swampert, who helps with Aerodactyl, Metagross, Jirachi, and Tyranitar by hitting them with Surf, Ice Beam, or Earthquake. It can also set up Stealth Rock and provides Froslass with a Fire resistance.

Snow Cloak Abuser:

While Froslass can make a reliable lead, you cannot forget about its ability: Snow Cloak. This set abuses that ability, along with the parafusion combination, to cause plenty of stress tfor your opponent. For example, having the opposing Pokemon paralyzed and hail falling, Froslass will only be hit by a 100% accuracy move 60% of the time. Add in confusion and that brings it down to 30%, allowing Froslass to either set up Spikes or attack with its STAB move.

Substitute allows you to stall until the opposing Pokemon misses an attack. Even if they do hit, with Leftovers, Froslass is only losing 18.75% of its HP per turn. Thunder Wave has a dual purpose here. Firstly, it causes the enemy's Speed to drop down to one-fourth of its original Speed, allowing Froslass to get up a Substitute against it first. Secondly, it imposes the opponent from attacking, allowing Froslass to perform its job more easily. While Froslass has a Substitute up, it can set up Spikes. Spikes, along with hail, are going to slowly wear down the enemy. The last slot is for either attacking or more utility if you feel it is necessary. Blizzard takes advantage of the hail, as the accuracy will be 100% while hail is falling. Ice Beam is there for the extra PP and accuracy outside of hail, but it is weaker. Confuse Ray allows for the dreaded parafusion, but it does leave Froslass with no attacking moves at all, causing it to be Taunt bait for things like Taunt Gyarados to set up on during a failed Substitute or Spikes [it sounded like you were missing a phrase, and I added in the one that made the most sense to me].

Leftovers is the main item of this set. Along with the given EVs, it allows you to Substitute five times in a row while waiting for the opponent to miss thanks to Snow Cloak's evasion boost. Leftovers also help Froslass gain HP back while the enemy is missing their attacks. BrightPowder may be used as an alternate item, but it is inferior to Leftovers because it does nothing if your opponent is taking the time to set up their own entry hazards or boosting their own stats with moves like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot. Leftovers allows you to continue healing while your opponent is attempting to set up, allowing you to create more Substitutes.

In order to play this set out, Abomasnow is absolutely required to be on your team. Its ability, Snow Warning, brings permanent hail onto the battlefield and activates Froslass’s ability. However, both Abomasnow and Froslass have trouble with Steel- and Fire-type moves, often wielded by Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon. While Froslass may be able to Thunder Wave those Pokemon, it cannot do anything else against them. For this reason, Abomasnow could be of the SubPunching variant to take out Steel-type Pokemon or may choose to carry Earthquake to deal with both Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon.

Having both Abomasnow and Froslass on one team leaves for many weaknesses. As mentioned in the previous paragraph, they have problems with Steel- and Fire-types, along with Rock-type attacks. A bulky Water-type handles the first two types. Suicune can use its impressive defenses to wall moves on both sides of the spectrum. Vaporeon can do the same, along with providing the team with Wish support. Wish support is recommended because both Abomasnow and Froslass are weak to Stealth Rock. Swampert can wall all three attacking types and can set up Stealth Rock for the team. Both Swampert and Suicune also have the ability to Roar out any opposing Pokemon, causing more residual damage by means of Spikes, Stealth Rock, and hail. Tentacruel can use its Water-typing and high Special Defense to take any Fire-type moves, can absorb any Toxic Spikes on your side of the field, and can spin away Stealth Rock and Spikes. Tentacruel may be used for Toxic Spikes support, but this may inhibit Froslass from paralyzing enemies as they'll have been poisoned on the switch. Heatran can use its ability to switch into Fire-type attacks, and also resists Steel-type attacks, while Froslass’s Ghost-typing allows it to switch into Fighting-type moves like Close Combat.

Because this set is not a lead, it can switch in later on in the game to block Rapid Spin. However, Froslass cannot do much against Forretress and Tentacruel offensvely because both of them resist Ice-type attacks, while Thunder Wave actually makes Forretress's Gyro Ball stronger. Once again, Rotom-H would make a good partner for reasons mentioned in the previous set.

Team Options:

As Froslass is mainly a support Pokemon, it will appreciate Pokemon that can support it in return, namely Pokemon that can resist Froslass’s weaknesses. Unfortunately for Froslass, those types of attacks are very common, but fortunately many Pokemon resist these threats. Due to Froslass’s low Special Attack stat, it will be hard-pressed to kill many Pokemon that are even neutral to its STAB attacks, so employing certain Pokemon to help take care of these threats is also necessary.

Froslass is weak against many common attacking types. For example, due to its Ice-typing, Froslass is weak to Rock-, Steel-, and Fire-type moves. Due to its Ghost-typing, Froslass is weak against Ghost- and Dark-type moves. From a defensive spectrum, Rock-type moves can be taken on by a bulky Ground- or Steel-type Pokemon. Swampert resists not only Rock-type attacks but also Fire-type attacks and can Roar out opposing Pokemon to rack up residual damage. Metagross can use its impressive physical bulk to also resist Rock-type moves and threaten the opposing Pokemon with a STAB Meteor Mash. For the Steel-type weakness, a bulky Water-type Pokemon may be used. Vaporeon, Swampert, and Suicune all fit that spot, as their Water-typing and impressive physical bulk allows them to resist Steel-type attacks. All three can also Roar out opposing Pokemon to shuffle the opponent's team. Heatran can also be used, as it provides a 4x resistance against Steel-type moves. The bulky Waters and Heatran also resist Fire-type attacks and either hit those Pokemon back with a STAB Surf or a super effective Earth Power. Snorlax can use its Thick Fat ability along with Special Defense to soak up Fire-type moves.

Froslass also fears opposing Ghost-type moves. Once again, Snorlax can help Froslass by neutralizing any of these threats and hitting the opposing Pokemon with a super effective Crunch or catch them fleeing with a Pursuit. Heatran also resists these attacks thanks to its Steel-typing. Finally, Dark-type moves are Froslass’s bane, as Pursuit often traps Froslass in. As switching out would cause Froslass to faint due to Pursuit, you might want to have a Pokemon that capitalizes on these Choiced Pursuits. Lucario and Scizor can both easily set up a Swords Dance and sweep the opposing team. Due to the Spikes that Froslass has set up, opposing counters will find it harder to counter Lucario and Scizor. Lucario also provides Froslass with a Rock-resist, though you should not switch blindly into Stone Edge, as they will still hurt.

As Froslass’s ability suggests, putting it on a team with Abomasnow can be helpful, allowing it to dodge potentially fatal attacks. However, both share a Fire- and Rock-type weakness, so having Pokemon that can resist these moves is also helpful. Swampert can resist both of these types and immediately threaten them with a STAB Surf or Hydro Pump. The other bulky Water-types can also help with this problem. However, even when not using Abomasnow, you must have an answer for Tyranitar. Due to sandstorm and the special bulk gained from it, it can easily switch in on Ice Beam and Shadow Ball. Scizor can switch in on Tyranitar's Crunch and threaten it with a STAB Bullet Punch or U-turn. Metagross can do the same and threaten it with a STAB Meteor Mash. Swampert once again can help, hitting Tyranitar with a STAB Earthquake. Froslass also has problems with Scizor and Metagross, as both have Pursuit to catch switching Froslass and Bullet Punch to bypass its Speed. Magnezone can help out against both, with Hidden Power Fire or Thunderbolt for both of them. It does need to invest in Speed in order to outpace opposing Metagross and Magnet Rise before they can Earthquake. Rotom-H resists Bullet Punch and can hit both with Overheat, killing or crippling them. Heatran is also an issue, resisting both Ice Beam and Shadow Ball. Any bulky Water-type takes care of Heatran, but all must watch out for Explosion.

Other Options:

When considering a Hidden Power type, remember that an unresisted STAB Ice Beam does slightly more than a 2x Hidden Power. Hidden Power Fighting may be used to combat Tyranitar, 2HKOing the standard 176/0 Choice Band Tyranitar with both Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes down. It does leave Froslass with a 30 Speed IV, which means it loses to other base 110s like Latias and Gengar. Hidden Power Ground can be used for Heatran, with a 20.51% chance of OHKOing the standard 4/0 Choice Scarf Heatran with Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes down. Hidden Power Grass can be used for Swampert, 2HKOing the 252/0 Mixpert set. Hidden Power Fire snags an OHKO on any unsuspecting Forretress, but also leaves it with a 30 Speed IV. Psychic can be used for Heracross, but leaves Froslass more vulnerable to Dark-type Pokemon and Shadow Ball is generally better. Thunderbolt allows you to hit Water-types that resist Ice Beam.

Froslass can also use an offensively based set, composed of Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, and a Hidden Power or Trick if Froslass is holding a Choice item. However, Gengar is generally a better idea for this, as its higher Special Attack allows it to deal more damage. Froslass can also use a set with Trick to debilitate its opponents and then begin to set up Spikes, but its low defenses make it hard to do so effectively.

As for support options, Light Screen and Safeguard may be used, but Froslass is generally too frail to continuously set them up. Block can be used along with Destiny Bond and Taunt to force a kill but is a one-time deal. Unfortunately, Block is illegal with Spikes [I believe this has changed since the Ditto Egg Move Glitch has been discoverd, but don't quote me]. Snatch can steal a Substitute or stat boosts from your opponent if they try to set up in front of Froslass to avoid Destiny Bond. Swagger can be used over Confuse Ray on the Snow Cloak set, but its 90% accuracy and +2 Attack boost once the confusion wears off can be dangerous.

EVs:

With both sets, 252 EVs in Speed along with a Timid nature is required, as this boosts Froslass’s most impressive stat: Speed. 252 EVs go into Special Attack go into any set that has an attacking move to allow Froslass to deal as much damage as it can. The remaining 4 EVs go into Defense to boost its defenses. If using Ice Shard, reallocate 252 EVs into Attack instead of Special Attack and give it a Jolly nature instead.

No HP EVs allow Froslass to switch in four times and still live with one HP left. If using a set that doesn't have an attack, give it 248 HP EVs, as maxing it out causes Froslass to die from four switch ins with Stealth Rock on the field. The remaining 8 EVs can go into either Defense or Special Defense to boost its overall defenses.

Opinion:

Froslass is an interesting Pokemon, as it is the only Ghost-type Pokemon that can also set up Spikes. The Suicide Lead set almost always sets up at least one layer of Spikes, while the Snow Cloak set can set up more than one layer if the evasion boost kicks in. However, its success is limited to supporting, as Gengar outclasses it offensively. It also has a nasty weakness to Stealth Rock, meaning it cannot be a reliable spin-blocker. Nevertheless, with its myriad of support moves, Froslass can be a worthy asset to many teams.

Counters:

Froslass’s main counter is Tyranitar, as Sand Stream immediately takes out any hail falling on the field and can threaten Froslass with Pursuit, Crunch, or Stone Edge. The sandstorm it kicks up also gives it a Special Defense boost, which allows Tyranitar to shrug off any Ice Beams. Scizor and Metagross can both come in on Ice Beam or Shadow Ball and bypass Froslass’s Speed with Bullet Punch or catch it switching out with a Pursuit. Snorlax can Pursuit or Crunch Froslass, depending on if it stays in or not.

As a lead, Azelf and Aerodactyl both shut it down, as their higher Speed coupled with Taunt prevents Froslass from setting up any Spikes. Although Froslass can 2HKO them with Ice Beam, they will have still managed to set up Stealth Rock.

On the Snow Cloak set, Swampert is a good counter against Froslass, with its immunity to Thunder Wave and neutrality to Blizzard or Ice Beam. Swampert can either Roar away Froslass or attack it with Earthquake or Surf.

Any faster Taunter can force Froslass to attack and stop using support moves, as Substitute does not block Taunt.

Froslass’s success is tied to its Speed. If you can inflict paralysis upon it, Froslass will be effectively neutered. Barring that, Bullet Punch, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch all have priority, bypassing Froslass’s impressive Speed and scoring super effective damage. Stealth Rock also prevents Froslass from switching in too many times. Since its defenses are not that impressive, hitting Froslass with any neutral attack will cause severe damage to it, most likely causing it to die from another switch in.

I do believe this revamp will be complete once the edits I have made are implemented. Great work supermarth64!

supermarth64 · Aug 18, 2009

Applied Xia's comments. A moderator can feel free to upload this at any time.

Stellar · Aug 19, 2009

This seems fine, just remember in the future that Speed should be capitalized.

DPP Froslass (Update)*

supermarth64

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iss

let's play bw lc!

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