DPP Gardevoir

[twash]

Gardevoir has a huge SpA stat, ready to make use of!

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt
move 4: Trick
item: Choice Specs
ability: Trace
nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set takes advantage of Gardevoir's excellent Special Attack stat, and good movepool. Psychic is a good reliable STAB move than will OHKO Heracross and Lucario, both of whom are also outsped, provided they aren't running a Speed boosting nature.</p>

<p>Focus Blast provides good coverage, and smashes most Tyranitar for a clean OHKO, while providing a 2HKO on Snorlax most of the time. Even standard Blissey takes 38% damage on average, which isn't a bad prospect, especially when paired with the possibility of Special Defense drops.</p>

<p>Shadow Ball hits Cresselia, Slowking, Celebi, and an assortment of other Psychic-types for super effective damage. However, Thunderbolt may be used, but is generally inferior; Gyarados is 2HKOed by Psychic anyway, but Thunderbolt does more damage to Milotic, Vaporeon, and the aforementioned Slowking.

<p>Trick is also key to this set. It allows Gardevoir to cripple Pokémon like Blissey and Cresselia, common switch-ins to Gardevoir. Trick also somewhat handicaps opposing Weavile and Tyranitar; their Pursuits will no longer OHKO if Gardevoir stays in, allowing it to do huge damage with Focus Blast, provided that it does not miss. However, Gardevoir needs to be wary of gaining a Choice Band.</p>

<p>Trace helps make this set work well. If Gardevoir can get in on any Choiced Heatran's Fire Blast, Jolteon's Thunderbolt or even Flygon's Earthquake, it then has an opportunity to get a powerful hit on a switch-in with no set up. Trace also helps against Rain Dance Kingdra and Ludicolo, who are both outsped in the rain courtesy of Trace. If Gardevoir can come in on an Electivire's ThunderPunch, it can also then outspeed and OHKO with Psychic 53% of the time. It can also come in on most Celebi without fearing Thunder Wave, and deal upwards of 69% with Shadow Ball, while Celebi will only manage 24% damage maximum back with Grass Knot.</p>

 

[E.A.]

IMO, outclassed by Alakazam, Espeon, and Azelf as a Choice Specs user.

 

[umbarsc]

Gardevoir has an excellent Special Attack stat, while also being relatively bulky, especially when paired against the likes of Gengar.

Can you clarify as to why Gardevoir is more bulky or powerful when the opponent is a Gengar?

Psychic is a good, reliable STAB move, does a good chunk to Vaporeon.

"does a good chuck to" should be "takes a good chunk of damage of damage off of". And what's with the random Vaporeon reference?

 

[Thorns]

IMO, outclassed by Alakazam, Espeon, and Azelf as a Choice Specs user.

Zam can't take a hit worth shit. Espeon should be Baton Passing instead of using Specs. Azelf has access to Nasty Plot.

Gardevoir has its own niche when it comes to Psychic Specs users.

Gardevoir can then use Focus Blast against the latter for high damage.

 

[Darkmalice]

IMO, outclassed by Alakazam, Espeon, and Azelf as a Choice Specs user.

I agree. Twash, can you explain what advantages Gardevoir has over these 3, and extend on why being so bulky is helpful? Perhaps some examples of where Gardevoir's bulkiness only allows a 2HKO on it, whilst Alakazam and Azelf would be OHKOed by that. Gengar is a poor example. Timid Scarf Shadow Ball does 84.17% - 99.28%. That's a 66.7% chance of a OHKO with SR in play.

You could tweak the EVs, so it is more bulky. For example Gardevoir with 316 HP will always survive that Shadow Ball. This requires 156 EVs. However, that will have to be taken from SpA or Speed, both of which are unfavourable for a Specs User. In the case of Speed, that means Gardevoir will be outspeed by Adamant Lucario and Heracross.

 

[Colloquy]

Gardevoir has a huge SpA stat, ready to make use of!

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt
move 4: Trick
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Gardevoir has an excellent Special Attack stat, while also being relatively bulky, especially when paired against the likes of Gengar. Psychic is a good, reliable STAB move and does a good chunk to Vaporeon who otherwise easily takes your hits. It is also handy against Heracross and Lucario, both of which are OHKOed, and outsped provided they don't run a Speed boosting nature.</p>

<p>Focus Blast provides good coverage and OHKOs most Tyranitar while also 2HKOing most Snorlax. Even standard Blissey takes 38% damage on average, which isn't at all a bad prospect.</p>

<p>Shadow Ball gives good coverage, hitting Slowking, Cresselia, and other Psychic-types for super effective damage. Thunderbolt can be used, but is generally inferior as offensive Gyarados is 2HKOed by Psychic. Thunderbolt, however, does provide a 2HKO on Vaporeon and does slightly more damage to Slowking.</p>

<p>Trick mainly helps Gardevoir cripple Pokémon like Blissey and Cresselia, common switch-ins to Gardevoir. Blissey will hate Choice Specs, as will Weavile and Tyranitar. Against the latter, Gardevoir can then Focus Blast for high damage, unless Tyranitar held a Choice item before the Trick. (remove 'Heatran' line)</p>

Just some comma splicing and grammar nitpicks. I didn't like the random Vaporeon reference at the top, and the Heatran one at the bottom, because Gardevoir is a good counter to Vaporeon anyways, and the Heatran one was just pretty obvious.

 

[Jimbo]

This set needs an ability, since Gardevoir has two. I think what sets Gardevoir apart is Trace (if that's what you plan on using).

edit: hey aren't we ... not supposed to add any UU analyses atm :x?

 

[E.A.]

Gardevoir can then use Focus Blast against the latter for high damage.

Alakazam can as well, so there goes that niche. Zam is also significantly faster and has far more power, unlike Gardevoir. I will admit, Gardevoir is just a nudge more bulky on the physical side, and much better on the special side, but again, you lose a lot of Speed.

Azelf has access to Nasty Plot.

Azelf, from my experience, is far too frail to get off an NP with ease. Specs is easy in, easy hit, easy out. Using specs is still viable with him.

Espeon should be Baton Passing instead of using Specs.

Like Gardevoir should be walling.

 

[Colloquy]

edit: hey aren't we ... not supposed to add any UU analyses atm :x?

This set is tailored toward OU use, which is acceptable.

 

[RaikouLover]

Originally Posted by Explorer Ace
Zam is also significantly faster and has far more power,

Far more power? Bullshit. Gardevoir has the same special attack as Azelf, which is... 10 points lower then Gengar... and 20 points lower than Alakazaam... Yeah Gardy is a pushover...

Either way, trace sets Gardevoir apart from the others, able to come in on Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flygon Earthquakes and various other assorted goodies, so there is your unique niche. And why are we saying "Everything does this better... scrap this set." I thought we are obligated to listing competitive movesets for every pokemon?

Either way, nice set and write up. Not too much except I'm surprised this isn't an option already.

 

[umbarsc]

Yeah, this set really needs Trace as the listed ability or else it's just simply outclassed.

 

[Thorns]

snip about zam

I was referring to the bulk and Trace, guess I worded that wrong.

snip about Azelf

Azelf can find plenty of opportunities to set up on, like a Choice locked Earthquake, Skarmory, etc

snip about Espeon

true, but this is a Specs set and Espeon has a laughable movepool anyway.

 

[Veedrock]

And why are we saying "Everything does this better... scrap this set." I thought we are obligated to listing competitive movesets for every pokemon?

I was wondering this when I started reading the disapprovals.

Not too much except I'm surprised this isn't an option already.

Her other options section mentions it but sets it aside for her support options. I still think this warrants its own set.

I think that Choice Scarf would be a good alternative (making the set simply "Choice"). She's pretty slow to begin with and the extra speed helps her revenge things rather than relying entirely on a safe switch to get into play (though that won't hurt either). That speed could help outrun Scarf Heatran, DD Gyarados, Alakazam, and Latias (yeah yeah, looking into the future @_@). She would need to keep Timid for those things though. She's still relatively powerful so it becomes a personal choice of raw power versus speed (and she could really use the speed as an option). I dunno, she seems too slow for this type of ordeal, like Specs Heatran, but that may just be my personal taste coming out.

Just my two cents on the matter.



EDIT (another post is unnecessary): You're right darkie. XP

Anyways, I'm standing pretty firm with Choice Scarf, either as an option to this or another analysis completely (seems redundant though). If you really want to abuse that attack stat, being able to hit without getting mauled would help a lot. Even if she goes Modest she can still outrun Weavile (and as such anything slower), while still hitting really hard. But like I said, I suppose it's preference more than anything.

 

[darkie]

No need to look "into the future" for Latias when she is as of this moment in the OU tier.

 

[Caelum]

In OU, this is vastly outclassed by Alakazam - the only reason to use this over Alakazam is "it's bulkier"; but is it really bulkier?

Timid Gardevoir with 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe generates stats of 278 HP / 166 Def / 523 SpA / 266 SpD / 284 Spe.

However, I can run Modest Alakazam @ Choice Specs with 252 HP / 56 Def / 48 SpA / 120 SpD / 32 Spe and generate stats of 314 HP / 140 Def / 523 SpA / 236 SpD / 284 Spe. In other words, I can EV Modest Alakazam to have the same Special Attack and the same Speed while still being bulkier than Gardevoir on the Special Defense side and only being 4.7% less physically bulkier than Gardevoir. Considering neither Alakazam or Gardevoir can take a physical hit either way it doesn't really matter.

I would normally just close this for it being outclassed by Alakazam but I suppose "technically" Gardevoir can satisfy a niche with the ability Trace to allow it to switch into Heatran's Fire Blasts, Jolteon's Thunderbolts, Vaporeon's Surf's, Flygon's Earthquakes etc. So, basically, if this is designated for OU you have to list the ability Trace and you should add a paragraph about how that's the only reason to use this over Alakazam.

 

[Veedrock]

Erm, DD Dragonite is "largely outclassed by Salamence" (words from the analysis itself) yet it's on there. I could go on listing other outclassed sets because they do exist in the analyses (with perhaps minor differences, but nothing worthwhile).

I'm just saying that it is an option available for the Pokémon in question, even if it is done better elsewhere. Basically echoing RL's thought, why should it be denied at least a spot on the analysis? (edit: I know that you didn't, but you seemed borderline)

Just a general question/thought, not trying to say things are wrong. (edit) I'm glad we don't have extremely outclassed sets on each analyses, but something like this isn't that bad, especially since she can set herself apart somewhat (unlike DD'Nite), and still pull it off.

EDIT2: No, not suggesting a policy change (like I said, just a question). Sorry to derail this.

 

[Caelum]

Because the policy always has been to exclude sets that are completely outclassed. Most of us involved in updating analysis almost did not put DD Dragonite in. The only reason DD Dragonite is included is because it is still one of Dragonite's most popular sets (even though it shouldn't be) and it's the only Dragon who can viably use Yache Berry. I can tell you if DD Dragonite starts to drop in usage, it'll be gone very, very quickly.

If you are suggesting a policy change, take it up in PM since I'm not going to let that discussion derail the thread.

 

[cim]

With the Dragonite point, I think it is only the most used set _because_ of the analysis, actually.

Anyhow, this set requires Trace to even be worth an OO mention. You can actually modify Caelum's EVs a little to make Gardevoir clean outclassed - 148 HP / 164 Def / 48 SpA / 120 SpD / 32 Spe and now it's better in every stat.

Caelum Edit: Look at Chris, showing me up ... pssshhhh

 

[twash]

Right, seems I have some explaining to do ._.

First of all, the "base" of this set is Trace. Sorry I forgot to add that in, it was almost midnight when I wrote this and I was tired.

In OU, this is vastly outclassed by Alakazam - the only reason to use this over Alakazam is "it's bulkier"; but is it really bulkier?

Trace, although I hope you guessed that already. Gardevoir can come in on Heatran Fire Blasts, Jolteon Thunderbolts, and a host of other things. Gardevoir can switch into Celebi without fear of Thunder Wave thanks to Natural Cure. Gardevoir will love to face Rain Dance Kingdra without Dragon Dance. Gardevoir will love ThunderPunches from Electivire. Earthquakes from Flygon, and gaining Serene Grace from Jirachi / Togekiss, etc. It's not just about "absorbing" hits. If certain Pokémon are Choiced (which many Pokémon, like Heatran are), Gardevoir may essentially gets a "free", hugely powerful attack on whatever comes in, this too differentiates it.

I'll fix up the Set Comments a bit better. In fact I might re-write them totally as I was tired when I wrote them, don't know why I wrote it when I did..e.e

/edit: redone

 

[Darkmalice]

Perhaps Thunderbolt should be mentioned as the main option over Shadow Ball? It gives more reason for Gardevoir to be used over Alakazam.

With Thunderbolt, Trace, and some EV modification, she can be a Gyarados counter (alas, just passable). With 176 Spe, 176 Def and 156 SpA, she can always survive an Adamant LO Gyarados Waterfall with SR in play, and she has just enough speed to outspeed it. Trace is needed, for if Gyarados uses DD as she swaps in, Gyarados will not have a DD boosted attack. The Speed EVs are needed in case Gardevoir swaps into Waterfall - she can never take a repeated LO Waterfall.

However, one could argue that the potential to counter Gyarados is better done by other pokemon. So it's probably better off only be mentioned in Set comments.

 

[twash]

I'm not going to change the moveset from the better option to the less-better option so it gives "more reason to use it over Alakazam". Shadow Ball is primary over Thunderbolt because it's the better option.

This set is also not designed to counter Gyarados, it is designed to use Choice Specs effectively. I believe that if you wanted to counter Gyarados with Gardevoir, you would not use Choice Specs but Leftovers and a more defensive set.

 

[Stellar]

I still think you should have waited on this. There isn't really a need for an "OU Specs Set" and "UU Specs Set" when they are, in reality, going to function near identically. I would advise you to wait until UU has settled down a bit (or Gardevoir's tier status has been decided) so that if need be, you can tailor the majority of the set comments to its current tier while alluding to its use in OU if it is deemed UU.

 

[twash]

Stellar, that kind of confused me =/. This is the only Choice Specs set, there isn't one already. This set functions fine in OU too, hence the set comments.

 

[Stellar]

I was just saying that if Gardevoir is going to remain UU, more of the set comments need to be tailored towards the UU environment. But, of course we don't know if Gardevoir is going to stay UU, so I would have waited a bit before posting this.

 

[umbarsc]

There's pretty much no way that Gardevoir will be BL, so Stellar's right, this probably will need a re-write.