DPP Trick Room Guide

[Luxormaniac]

I think that Jirachi should be included as a Trick Roomer. It has the potential to abuse being fast in Trick Room. A max Speed Jirachi would use Trick Room, followed by what I call a "slow U-turn." It will U-turn second, allowing you to bring in a ridiculous sweeper unscathed. Rampardos anyone? Celebi can also do this well, and deals with Fighting weaks. Cele can even outrun Max Speed 'Nape (In TR) and KO with Earth Power. Both of them have 100 in each attacking stat and varied offensive movepools. Both of them have great bulk, Cele even with its own, albeit unreliable, recovery: Synthesis. Jirachi can instead pass Wish, creating a mutally beneficial TR switch via U-turn + Wishpassing relationship. I've found that that using them as slow as possible is also viable.

Also, min Speed Heracross (and other base 85's) reach 157 Speed. This means that 4 Speed EVs used as leftovers on a base 60 Pokemon will tie with it, and Base 61 and over will outrun it. Heracross is thus slower (faster in TR) than Skarm, Gliscor, and other counters. It can abuse Guts for inane power.
The Regis at base 50 Speed are an acceptable alternative for bulk, with Regirock capable of Cursing (even better in a Tyranitar's sandstorm) at 100 base Attack, and Regice with 100 base Sp. Attack.
Togekiss is at 120 base Sp. Attack, and can Flinch foes to doom. Extremespeed (@ Hustle?) can be used for priority. It is slower even than base 60's. But it's two speed points faster than min Bliss. Extremespeed can remedy this to an extent. Can Twave on the last turn and continue annoying.

 

[TeaBag]

Yeah I'd just like to say that Celebi likes Recover over Synthesis. :Q

caelum edit (hope this isn't an abuse of power): Same with using Earth Power on Nape lol.

 

[Matthew]

Ok, so I guess I'll remove the 77 base speed cap, but there still needs to be a cut off limit so the pokemon inside of Trick Room can still be faster than the other pokemon. What would you guys suggest?

Caelum is abusing power.

 

[Luxormaniac]

Depends on what you use. Bliss is a slow tank, but we use her outside of Trick Room. In general, I think this rule applies for bulk. For sweepers... it's harder/impossible to define. I think that 80 is a perfectly fine TR speed. You're slower than no speed base 60's.
And of course Cele uses Recover. Silly me (I don't use Cele often.)

And for a sweeper/settupper that hits base 80 Speed, lets hear it for Gallade! Base 125 Attack and STAB Close Combat has gotta hurt. It gets a Priority (Shadow Sneak, Vacuum Wave) and 3 different status to choose from, but Twaving your opponent is probably a bad idea. So 2 viable ones (Hypnosis/WoW) and Toxic, which doesn't really count. He can Destiny Bond to finish off a round of Sweeping, or live to TR another day.

Uxie, at base 95 Speed and bulkiness, and Mesprit, at base 80 with bulkiness and attacking potential, can both do a slow U-turn. They also get great support movepools, and can even counter Gyara and Mence. Azelf can, but is [sarcasm]just a bit too fast and fragile[/sarcasm] to be doing that.

Hippowdon can be a physical sweeper/wall.
Gardevoir can do it specially and Trace Intimidate or Flash Fire, and set it up as well.
Trapinch at 100 attack and 10 speed is the TR Dugtrio, no Choice required.
SubSeed Torterra might frighten someone.

EDIT: @ below- Yes, I would recommend upping cap to 80.

 

[Matthew]

So I should up the cap to 80 do you think? Then just allow every other non super fast pokemon that can Trick Room? It's an easy fix, I would just like to know what would be best.

 

[Darkmalice]

Ok, so I guess I'll remove the 77 base speed cap, but there still needs to be a cut off limit so the pokemon inside of Trick Room can still be faster than the other pokemon. What would you guys suggest?

Caelum is abusing power.

The cut off limit should be base 85. This goes to 157, which is just enough to be slower than 0 Spe Tyranitar's 158 (assuming neutral nature). I'm not sure how many Tyranitars invest in speed, but if they invest enough to outspeed min Skarmory, then base 95 is okay. This reaches 175 and is ironically just enough to be slower than 0 Spe Skarmory's 176.

I must admit that U-turning with Jirachi and Celebi is tempting. But they could do that with Thunderwave anyways.

Medicham is worth of mention as a Trick Room Sweeper thanks to his amazing ability to OHKO so many pokemon.

 

[Matthew]

Base 85's will be updated sometime today or tomorrow, I think that I'll say something about Celebi and Jirachi having the ability to set up Trick Room and maybe sweep

 

[Steinhauser]

Even though it is a Trick Room team, not everything has to be slow or TR-compatable. I think there should be a mention of using a scarfer or other fast sweeper, at least as an option, as a late-game cleaner. I used to use a Trick Room team, and I found that one of the most important members of the team was the fast end-game cleaner. You're not going to be able to layer Trick Rooms the entire game, especially near the end, where every turn counts.

 

[Wes]

Even though it is a Trick Room team, not everything has to be slow or TR-compatable. I think there should be a mention of using a scarfer or other fast sweeper, at least as an option, as a late-game cleaner. I used to use a Trick Room team, and I found that one of the most important members of the team was the fast end-game cleaner. You're not going to be able to layer Trick Rooms the entire game, especially near the end, where every turn counts.

It is already in the guide :)

Support:
​

Trick Room supports itself. Though if you would like to remove a Trick Room receiver, or a Trick Room user, for something fast and powerful like a Salamence then you are welcomed to. Trick Room doesn’t have enough time to have Pokémon providing support, but having a quick late game clean up Pokémon can help you. It may lower your offense or defense capabilities, but it could provide a sweep once you’ve weakened your opponent’s Pokémon. A fast Choice Scarf Pokémon can be used as a late game clean upper, it would probably be best if the Pokémon could use Trick as well.

 

[Luxormaniac]

Whoa Gen, I never intended Celebi/Rachi to even dream of sweeping. They are good TR passers for the same reason as Dusknoir and Bronzong: They're bulky enough to take a hit. They are also some of the only, and probably the most viable, users of a "slow U-turn." Getting in a Rampardos can really be a game changing event. U-turn, and wish for Jirachi, and 100/100/100 defenses are what make these guys good on a TR team, not sweeping potential.

And base 85 is OK, not really what I would choose for a sweeper but certainly possible.

 

[Matthew]

Well base 85 was backed up with Logic, which is what I was hoping for. I mean if you could say why this other base would be better than by all means.

 

[dekzeh]

Keckleon is a good UU Trick Roomer Lead since it can Magic Coat Roserade Sleep Powder or Crobat/Froslass Taunt and act as a very solid switch in on pretty much any special attacker.

 

[diinbong]

I'd personally say that Porygon2 is the more usable of the "Defensive Normal-type Trick Roomers with Magic Coat that can also lead", but.

 

[Raj]

Alot of people don't realize this, but Dragonite in Trick Room is beastly. It really is worth a mention, being able OHKO-2HKO any Pokemon in the game in addition to having a bit of bulk behind it.

 

[Matthew]

Since I'm upping the base cap to 85 Dragonite will be included. Just give me some time guys >_<

 

[Matthew]

Yeah I know this is a long bump, but I reworked the guide a bit last night and a lot today, I finished up the sloppy parts and made it a lot better in my opinion. I edited it into the OP

 

[Garganator]

Guide looks good for me as it says everything that needs to be said. I would only add, that running few Explosions users (fortunately many Trick Roomers also have that ability like Bronzong or Claydol) is really good strategy. I love to kill something and start to abuse Explosion with great effect. I may post here UU example of slow-explosion team if you want ;). Also, in sweeper department:

a) Golem may at first looks like worse Rhydon, however it has one things, which gives him good advantage - Explosion. In UU it has good enough attack to work with and Explosion is such a great move on Trick Room team, easily breaking stall team (watch out on ghost and sturdy steel/rock types though).
b) I think you should mention Trapinch - it's extremely slow, giving him under Trick Room big advantage. Also with 100 base attack and Arena Trap he may work like Dugtrio and trap some annoying pokemon like Blissey without Ice Beam, Chansey or Steelix.
c) Kingler - It's slow enough with 75 base speed, has great attack with deadly Crabhammer STAB. Also it's fairy bulky unlike many much more frail sweepers.
d) Porygon2 may sweep on it's own. Here's my set and it's effective ;). Also Trick Roomer, which may sweep on it's own is a good thing to have.

And one more supporting Trick Roomer - Dusclops. In OU of course it's outclassed by Dusknoir, however in UU it has good niche as it's the only UU Trick Roomer, which resist bug attacks which trouble many users of Trick Room as most of them are psychic-type. Also ability to use fast Will-O-Wisp and Taunt is nice. Bronzor also may be added with his unique typing and resistances for UU uses and solid supporting options like screens.

And one more thing - maybe it's worth a shot to add Uber section here ? I used in the past Trick Room in Ubers - it's not bad, however with all those hard hitters you need to be even more carefull. I may help with this one if you want to ;).

Anyway, good job Gen ;).

 

[mtr]

One more for Dragonite's inclusion: he has great synergy with Bronzong, and can serve as a potent, resilient wallbreaker with Outrage, Fire Blast, Roost, and Superpower.

Other than that, great guide. It certainly inspired me to test out a Trick Room team in OU, and I'll try Ubers next.

 

[Matthew]

yeah, thanks for the suggestions, I will be adding in an Uber section sometime tomorrow. I also added in Golem tonight, I will add in Kingler and Dragonite tomorrow though.

 

[-Zer0-]

Nitpick: more than two pokes under 77 base get a priority move (metagross and empoleon). unless I misunderstood something.

 

[Matthew]

added in Trick Room in Ubers section.

Also added in comments about Metagross and Empoleon's priority.

 

[Teochiu]

Celebi: With base 100 stats all around, Celebi is a very sturdy pokemon to use Trick Room. Celebi also has the added bonuses of being the only Grass-type pokemon which can use Trick Room. It also comes with a few useful moves such as Reflect and U-turn, making sure your sweepers can get in easily.

Exeggutor can also run Trick Room, though I guess you'd consider him a dual type Grass/Psychic. Maybe you could add that to his analysis?

 

[Matthew]

good catch, yeah I'll fix that right away

 

[Aiklap]

Trick Room is a move which will make the slower Pokémon go first for four turns. It has has -6 priority, that is to say that every single move, including Roar and Whirlwind, will go before Trick Room.

It's minor, but Trick room has -7 prority, which is why it goes after roar and whirlwind, which are at -6.

Also, it should be clear that due to priority (or lack of it in this case) that Trick Roomers do not have to be fast (Choice scarf TRers are almost pointless, unless they need the scarf for other surporting roles) - the emphisis is much more on bulk when setting up TR.

 

[-Zer0-]

Well if youre going to mention all priority moves that he trick room sweepers get (not sure if you plan to)

Breloom gets mach punch
Spiritomb gets sucker punch
Machamp/hariyama get bullet punch (probably not worth mentioning)
Cacturne gets sucker punch
Honchkrow gets sucker punch (but Im assuming you elected to keep that out)

I tihnk a couple are worth mentioning.