Dragonite [4N] - Agility MixNite

[Salt1]

I know someone else has posted this, but this is a different version that works quite well.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/dragonite

[SET]
Name: AgiliMixNite
Move 1: Agility
Move 2: Superpower
Move 3: Dragon Pulse
Move 4: Fire Blast
Nature: Mild
Ability: Inner Focus
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 122 Atk / 184 SpAtk / 204 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> Obviously the factor that makes Salamence so much more overused than Dragonite is it's speed. Being able to outpace Lucario, the Rotom Formes and others make Salamence such a great pokemon. This set attempts to remedy Dragonite's poor speed by equipping it with Agility. After an Agility, Dragonite can outspeed so many threats and even outspeeds +1 Base 100s whilst still hitting extremely hard. One of the things that puts Dragonite above Salamence, is it's even better movepool than it's counterpart, and with Superpower Dragonite should be able to OHKO a number of threats.<p>

<p> With Dragonite's movepool it is not hard to conjure up a decent set, but this one is designed to work the best in OU. With this set Dragonite can break down feared walling partnerships such as Skarm/Bliss and Gliscor/CurseTar. With the given EVs Dragonite's Superpower has a 66.67% chance of OHKOing 148 HP / 252 Def Bold Blissey after Stealth Rock, unfortunately it is not 100% and if it were to be, it would lose out on the KOes I will mention soon. Most Blissey are Calm these days and standard WishBliss listed in the Smogon analysis takes 96.16% minimum, so essentially a OHKO after Stealth Rock. Without it, Blissey is KOed 74.36% of the time. Skarmory, Blissey's main partner in crime takes 117.96% minimum from Fire Blast. So, this Dragonite easily breaks Skarm/Bliss, which is something standard MixMence struggles to do. As for Gliscor/Curse Tar, Gliscor is always 2HKOed by Dragon Pulse without Stealth Rock and incoporating Leftovers. Tyranitar is also easily dispatched, a guaranteed OHKO before Stealth Rock. As well as the aformentioned KOes, Dragonite also does a number to other walls, 2HKOing Swampert, Bronzong and Rotom. Rotom cannot really do too much to this Dragonite as it is specially orientated meaning that Will-o-wisp hardly does anything to it. WoW + LO recoil can be rather hindersome though.<p>

<p> Dragonite will most likely be seen lategame and it does well against many lategame sweepers. Standard Swords Dance Lucario is OHKOed. So is DDMence and DDTar. Swords Dance Scizor generally lacks the power to OHKO Dragonite after Stealth Rock and one round of Life Orb, though it does take a handy proportion out of Dragonite's HP Bar. Dragonite also can break through late game sweepers such as AgiliPoleon (taking 113% minimum from a Superpower) and even Calm Mind Latias. Dragonite will outrun Latias after an Agility and it will deal 88.08% minimum to 4 HP Latias which is what the EVs were designed for. Obviously Stealth Rock support is needed to gain this.<p>

<p> The given speed EVs outpace Modest Scarf Starmie / Scarf Azelf which is usually the fastest they will run so they can outspeed +1 Base 100s. It also outspeeds those sensible Timid 176 Spe Gengar / Latias who EV to outspeed +1 Salamence. Unfortunately it cannot outspeed Max Timid Latias without missing out on the KOes listed. <p>

<p> Agility is something that sets Dragonite apart from Salamence and it should be used to the maximum. Stealth Rock support should really be considered should you use this spread. Rapid Spin can be used to increase Dragonite's longetivity, but generally it is not necessary. A spread utilising Draco Meteor can be considered, but that loses the ability to break Skarm / Bliss. If you were to use Draco Metoer, it should be used in conjuction with Outrage and Earthquake. Superpower is so great because it is able to OHKO Blissey without locking Dragonite into one attack, which is easily resisted by a steel type. Superpower does also not hinder Dragonite's sweep too much, as it is specially orientated. The main advantage of Dragonite over standard DDMence, is it's ability to break most walls without being locked into Outrage and that it can outrun many would be revenge killers after an Agility.<p>

Thanks for reading!

 

[zarator]

You have not mentioned anything besides Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin for team support. Any words about team options for this Dragonite?

 

[Raikizen]

I know someone else has posted this, but this is a different version that works quite well.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/dragonite

[SET]
Name: AgiliMixNite
Move 1: Agility
Move 2: Superpower
Move 3: Dragon Pulse
Move 4: Fire Blast
Nature: Mild
Ability: Inner Focus
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 122 Atk / 184 SpAtk / 204 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> One of the main reasons that Salamence is usually chosen over Dragonite as a Dragon Dancer would be its great higher base speed. Being able to outpace Lucario, the Rotom Formes and many other common threats make Salamence a great choice for your late game sweeper. Something Dragonite can do that Salamence can't, however, is double its middling speed in a single use with the move Agility. After a single Agility, Dragonite can outspeed +1 Base 100s whilst still hitting extremely hard and retaining a relative amount of bulk. One of the many things that makes Dragonite a viable user of Agility is its extremely varied movepool.<p>

<p> With Dragonite's movepool it is not hard to conjure up a decent set. With the moves listed above, and the given EVs, Dragonite becomes a feared Wallbreaker; easily tearing through such combinations as Skarm/Bliss. With the EVs listed in Atk, Dragonite's Superpower has a 66.67% chance of OHKOing 148 HP / 252 Def Bold Blissey after Stealth Rock. This isn't a real issue as most Blissey are Calm in the current metagame, and standard WishBliss listed in the analysis takes 96.16% minimum, which is a handy OHKO with Stealth Rock on the field. Skarmory, Blissey's common partner to wall physical attacks, takes 117.96% minimum from Fire Blast. As for many other common walls such as Gliscor and Curse Tar, Gliscor is always 2HKOed by Dragon Pulse without Stealth Rock and incoporating Leftovers, while Tyranitar is also easily dispatched by Superpower, a guaranteed OHKO even before Stealth Rock. As well as the aformentioned KOes, Dragonite also deals hefty damage to a number of other walls, 2HKOing Swampert and Rotom with Dragon Pulse whilst 2HKOing Bronzong with Fire Blast. You should be wary of Swampert carying Ice Beam, but Bronzong and Rotom cannot really do too much to this Dragonite outside of Exploding or Burning it, respectively. As it is specially orientated, Will-o-wisp hardly bothers this Dragonite that much, but WoW + LO recoil can be rather hindersome to your sweep late game.<p>

<p> Dragonite will most likely be seen lategame and it can hold its own against many other common lategame sweepers. Standard Swords Dance Lucario is OHKOed easily by Superpower, while Dragonite is not OHKOed by a SD Extreme Speed, though he needs close to full health to make this viable. DDMence and DDTar are also stopped in their tracks after an Agility, both being OHKOed with their respective Super Effective moves. Dragonite also can break through late game sweepers such as AgiliPoleon, assuming it switched in on you after you already had an agility up (who takes 113% minimum from a Superpower) and even Calm Mind Latias. Dragonite will outrun Latias after an Agility and it will deal 88.08% minimum to 4 HP Latias. Obviously Stealth Rock support is needed to gain this specific OHKO as well.<p>

<p> The given speed EVs outpace Modest Scarf Starmie / Scarf Azelf which is usually the fastest they will run so they can outspeed +1 Base 100s. It also outspeeds those sensible Timid 176 Spe Gengar / Latias who EV to outspeed +1 Salamence. Unfortunately it cannot outspeed Max Timid Latias without missing out on the KOes listed. <p>

<p> Agility is something that sets Dragonite apart from Salamence, but just as the DDNite set, it should be used with care. Dragonite Does not enjoy crippling status nor heavy Super Effective hits. As such, having a Cleric on the team would be great support for Dragonite. Life Orb recoil added in with Stealth Rock damage will add up as well, so having a Wish Healer and/or Rapid Spinner would also come in handy in aiding a Dragonite Sweep, though Rapid Spin is not a necessity. Stealth Rock support is almost necessary, as it ensures an OHKO on the most commonly used form of Blissey. Swampert is a very good choice for Dragonite, as it can take any Ice and Rock attacks thrown at it with ease, while laying down a quick Stealth Rock to aide his sweep. Scizor is a nother good choice, shrugging off common Dragon typed moves aimed at Dragonite and countering most OU Dragons with a powerful Bullet Punch or Pursuit. The chosen moves listed above are really the best for the job, as Fire Blast ensures a swift OHKO on many steels, while providing a 2HKO on others. Dragon Pulse is Dragonites most useful form of STAB on his special side, while Superpower is what differentiates him from so many other commonly used dragons.<p>

Thanks for reading!

My corrections in bold. It's a good set, and I really like it. I may give it a try at some point, simply because I love Dragonite. I mainly just corrected any spelling or grammatical errors I found, while rewording it to make it more presentable.

Feel free to use, or to not use, any corrections I listed.

 

[Alchemator]

[SET]
Name: AgiliMixNite
Move 1: Agility
Move 2: Superpower
Move 3: Dragon Pulse
Move 4: Fire Blast
Nature: Mild
Ability: Inner Focus
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 122 Atk / 184 SpAtk / 204 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> One of the main reasons that Salamence is usually chosen over Dragonite as a Dragon Dancer would be its great higher base speed. Being able to outpace Lucario, the Rotom Formes and many other common threats make Salamence a great choice for your late game sweeper. Something Dragonite can do that Salamence can't, however, is double its middling speed in one turn with the move Agility. After a single Agility, Dragonite can outspeed +1 Base 100 speed Pokemon whilst still hitting extremely hard and retaining a relative amount of bulk.<p>

<p> One of the many things that makes Dragonite a viable user of Agility is its varied movepool. With Dragonite's movepool it is not hard to conjure up a decent set. With the moves listed above, and the given EVs, Dragonite becomes a feared Wall-breaker; easily tearing through combinations such as Skarmbliss. With the EVs listed in Atk, Dragonite's Superpower has a 66.67% chance of OHKOing 148 HP / 252 Def Bold Blissey after Stealth Rock. This isn't a real issue as most Blissey are Calm in the current metagame, and the standard WishBliss listed in the analysis takes 96.16% minimum, which is a handy OHKO with Stealth Rock on the field. Skarmory, Blissey's common partner to wall physical attacks, takes 117.96% minimum from Fire Blast. As for many other common walls such as Gliscor and Curse Tar, Gliscor is always 2HKOed by Dragon Pulse without Stealth Rock and incoporating Leftovers, while Tyranitar is also easily dispatched by Superpower, a guaranteed OHKO even before Stealth Rock. As well as the aformentioned KOes, Dragonite also deals hefty damage to a number of other walls, 2HKOing Swampert and Rotom with Dragon Pulse whilst 2HKOing Bronzong with Fire Blast. You should be wary of Swampert carying Ice Beam, but Bronzong and Rotom cannot really do too much to this Dragonite outside of Exploding or Burning it, respectively. As it is specially orientated, Will-o-wisp hardly bothers this Dragonite that much, but WoW + LO recoil can be rather hindersome to your late game sweeping attempts.<p>

<p> Dragonite will most likely be seen late game and it can hold its own against many other common lategame sweepers. Standard Swords Dance Lucario is OHKOed easily by Superpower, while Dragonite is not OHKOed by an SD Extreme Speed, though he needs close to full health to make this viable [SR?]. DDMence and DDTar are also stopped in their tracks after an Agility, both being OHKOed with their respective Super Effective moves. Dragonite also can break through late game sweepers such as Sub-Petaya Empoleon, assuming it switches in on the Agility (taking 113% minimum from a Superpower) and even Calm Mind Latias. Dragonite will outrun Latias after an Agility and it will deal 88.08% minimum to 4 HP Latias.<p>

<p> The given speed EVs outpace Modest Scarf Starmie / Scarf Azelf who have the potential to end your sweep. It also outspeeds Timid 176 Spe Gengar / Latias who EV to outspeed +1 Salamence. Unfortunately it cannot outspeed Max Timid Latias without missing out on the KOes listed. <p>

<p> Agility is something that sets Dragonite apart from Salamence, but just as the DDNite set, it should be used with care. Dragonite does not enjoy status nor heavy Super Effective hits. As such, having a Cleric on the team would be great support for Dragonite. Life Orb recoil added in with Stealth Rock damage will add up as well, so having a Wish Healer and/or Rapid Spinner would also aid a Dragonite Sweep, though Rapid Spin is not a necessity. Stealth Rock support is almost necessary, as it ensures an OHKO on the most commonly used form of Blissey. Swampert is a very good choice for Dragonite, as it can take any Ice and Rock attacks thrown at it with ease, while laying down a quick Stealth Rock to aide his sweep. Scizor is another good choice, shrugging off common Dragon typed moves aimed at Dragonite and countering most OU Dragons with a powerful Bullet Punch or Pursuit. The chosen moves listed above are really the best for the job, as Fire Blast ensures a swift OHKO on many steels, while providing a 2HKO on others. Dragon Pulse is Dragonite's most useful form of STAB on his special side, while Superpower is what differentiates him from so many other commonly used dragons.<p>

Correction of Raikizen's correction :D

 

[Dark Talon]

There are a couple of problems that I see here. First, you mention that Dragonite can break through endgame sweepers such as Agility Empoleon and CM Latias, but that is ONLY if Dragonite can set up first, so it cannot stop one of their sweeps. There are also many other Pokemon that can break through these same Pokemon while gaining more power such as DDmence. This Dragonite also only does 80.92% - 95.42% to Timid 4 HP Gengar, 83.96% - 98.98% to Naive Infernape, and 50.60% - 59.64% to Jolly 4 HP Gyarados, meaning any one of these more frail sweepers could end its sweep. If you are using Dragonite as a wall breaker, it can be easily done without Agility since it does outspeed a majority of walls such as Blissey, Swampert, Skarmory, etc etc. Furthermore, it can only manage 30.94% - 36.39% on 252 HP Bold Suicune, meaning it has even more trouble against it than other Agility sets that run Outrage.

 

[franky]

Next time when you make a write-up try to avoid "I" or 1st person talk in general.

 

[Salt1]

Ok, thanks for the criticism

@ Raikizen and Alchemator

You will see a new and improved write up some time tonight if I have time

@ Dark Talon

I understand why you would want to point out flaws in the analysis as you just posted a similar set, but really if any one sweeper can beat all other lategame sweepers, it would be amazing. Lucario, arguably the best DPPt sweeper, cannot KO other Lategamers like Gyarados, so obviously Dragonite cannot do all of that. Lso if Infernape a nd Gengar had taken a tiny bit of prior damage (switched into Stealth Rock earlier) they will be beaten. Gyarados as well, if it has already switched into Stealth Rock will die.

@ franky

Sorry I never noticed the "I", as I said to the two first posters I will edit tonight and am most likely going to adapt it to what they said

Thanks for the input

 

[Dark Talon]

Ok, thanks for the criticism

@ Dark Talon

I understand why you would want to point out flaws in the analysis as you just posted a similar set, but really if any one sweeper can beat all other lategame sweepers, it would be amazing. Lucario, arguably the best DPPt sweeper, cannot KO other Lategamers like Gyarados, so obviously Dragonite cannot do all of that. Lso if Infernape a nd Gengar had taken a tiny bit of prior damage (switched into Stealth Rock earlier) they will be beaten. Gyarados as well, if it has already switched into Stealth Rock will die.

Thanks for the input

I'm not criticizing yours just because I wrote a similar set, I'm criticizing it because there are things you either need to fix, explain, or have teammates support. SR does not guarantee a KO on either Infernape or Gengar. Also, Gyarados has to switch in twice before you can KO it.

I have a question for you: What exactly are you trying to accomplish with Agility? Agility makes it seem like you want to outspeed things that would usually be faster than Dragonite, but your other moves make Dragonite look like a wallbreaker, which does not need Agility to be successful. This set is also outsped and beaten by Scarf Latias. So tell me, what exactly are you trying to do with this set?

 

[Salt1]

I'm not criticizing yours just because I wrote a similar set, I'm criticizing it because there are things you either need to fix, explain, or have teammates support. SR does not guarantee a KO on either Infernape or Gengar. Also, Gyarados has to switch in twice before you can KO it.

If you notice I said:

if Infernape a nd Gengar had taken a tiny bit of prior damage (switched into Stealth Rock earlier) they will be beaten

Which means that they wouldve taken 12% on top of the 12% which is 24% which is enough on both of them.

Gyarados as well, if it has already switched into Stealth Rock will die

Same goes for Gyarados.

The idea is simple, to clean up Late Game, and to be honest I prefer the ability to OHKO 4 HP Latias than outrun ScarfLati without locking myself into Outrage.

 

[Dark Talon]

If you notice I said:



Which means that they wouldve taken 12% on top of the 12% which is 24% which is enough on both of them.



Same goes for Gyarados.

Saying earlier generally does not mean twice.

The idea is simple, to clean up Late Game, and to be honest I prefer the ability to OHKO 4 HP Latias than outrun ScarfLati without locking myself into Outrage.

A physical set with fire blast or draco meteor could probably clean up late game far better than this set. If you're just a clean up sweeper, you shouldn't have to rely on superpower to ohko people, since they should be weakened. You should also be able to rely on the more powerful outrage or the more reliable dragon claw (which, by the way, does 116.23% - 136.75% damage to 4hp Latias with your given EVs, Item, and Nature) to kill things that you should have already weakened. Honestly, PhysDragAttack/Earthquake/FB or DM/Agility would be able to sweep better than this set. You're trying to combine the agility and mixed sets which takes away from Dragonite's overall power. You are going to need that power since you aren't getting any boosts in attack or sp. attack here, meaning you will fail to kill a bunch of things.

 

[Salt1]

I do see that I could run Dragon Claw, but that loses to Blissey.

I have tried and tested a Draco Metoer set, but that, I find, does not work as well.

I do not want to start an argument, but everyone has different opinions, and to be honest I find this set works nicely.

Possibly we could ask if both sets could be incoporated together. This Dragonite also beats stall as well as working as a mid-game sweeper which can potentially open a hole for one of your other pokemon to sweep.

 

[Dark Talon]

I do see that I could run Dragon Claw, but that loses to Blissey.

I have tried and tested a Draco Metoer set, but that, I find, does not work as well.

I do not want to start an argument, but everyone has different opinions, and to be honest I find this set works nicely.

Possibly we could ask if both sets could be incoporated together. This Dragonite also beats stall as well as working as a mid-game sweeper which can potentially open a hole for one of your other pokemon to sweep.

'

Can I ask you a few questions? How is this set superior to the Mixnite set already in the analysis? What precisely can it do better? Because Mixnite or Mixmence are both better wallbreakers than this, and DDmence is a better late game sweeper.

 

[Salt1]

MixMence struggles to break SkarmBliss as Brick Break 2HKOes and unless it predicts accordingly, Blissey can paralyse or Toxic or Ice Beam Mence.

DDMence is most likely a better lategame sweeper, but most decent teams are prepared for it. They will run multiple answers to it.

For example P2, which cannot beat Draggy.

The other thing is the suprise factor.

This Dragonite also outruns ScarfModest Starmie and Azelf, and it cannot afford to opt for outrunning ScarfLatias.

In Pokemon, some things completely outclass others.

Dragonite still has a DD set in it's analysis even though DDMence completely outclasses, doesnt it?

 

[Colonel M]

I'd like to see logs or decent battlers confirm about this set's viability before I upload it to the site. Agility Dragonite was useful in DPP so I can see some merit to it. Though I'm pondering if Scizor shafts it that much.

 

[MetaNite]

I'd like to see logs or decent battlers confirm about this set's viability before I upload it to the site. Agility Dragonite was useful in DPP so I can see some merit to it. Though I'm pondering if Scizor shafts it that much.

To be honest, I don't think this set is very viable, even less viable than the Agility Dragonite posted by Dark_Talon. Agility Dragonite was somewhat useful in DP, not DPP. This was largely due to Deoxy-S, making this metagame very Speed driven. People were throwing random Choice Scarfs onto some Pokemon which meant the faster the sweeper, the better. Then Skymin came along and continued the trend of fast Pokemon. Now that both of these Pokemon have left the metagame, I don't see how this set is any more viable than Dragon Dance Dragonite or Mix Attacking Salamence. This set does not even outspeed one of Dragonite's most common revenge killers, Scarf Latias. This set is also very vulnerable to Scizor due to the -Def nature (lowering one of Dragonite's 'advantage' stats, it has over Salamence), especially if you used Superpower previously.

I've been trying to get logs showing how this set is outclassed but even setting this Dragonite up is very difficult and thus I just think that is a waste of time. However, some scenarios that I'd like to mention would be that Hippowdon can stall Dragonite with Slack Off, as a Dragon Pulse can only manage ~54% on Hippo, while Life Orb and Sandstorm slowly kills Dragonite. Another would be Dragon Pulse failing to OHKO a Gliscor, then dieing to Stone Edge. I'm pretty sure a +1 LO Outrage would have killed Gliscor, while although hitting Gliscor on its weaker defense, still lacks the raw power provided by Outrage.

This Dragonite can also be compared to a mixed Dancing Salamence. A Naive Salamence reaches 492 Speed after a Dragon Dance, only 2 less than a +2 Dragonite, while it achieves a lot more attack. A Naive Max SpA / max Spe Salamence also reaches 9 more Special Attack points than this Dragonite. (319 compared to Dragonite's 310)

So really, the only reasons to use this guy over a Mix Attacking Salamence would be to outspeed max Speed Scarf Jirachi, instead of just tie. The other would be to theoretically set up easier with your better defenses. (Inner Focus doesn't help out at all since you are now faster than the flinchers anyhow).

 

[Colonel M]

Yeah, I'm going to agree. I apologize for the inconvenience, but I shall lock this for now. But, I don't want this deleted -just yet- in case someone can PM me actual logs that proves the set works. I'll follow with MetaNite and say no for now since I have my own doubts (Scizor anyone?).