Dragons&Steels|A Match Made in Heaven v2.0

The Dragon-Steel combination is widely known for its ability to effectively cover each others' weaknesses, both offensively and defensively. I've recently been invited to join a competitive league where one is required to construct a team of five members of two different types, and a wild card. I couldn't resist but give this esteemed duo-typing a try myself, and started thinking up a tough and effective team. This team starts off with a unique Anti-Lead that is able to knock out, if not severely cripple common leads, and get Stealth Rock up at the same time. Then it takes advantage of Magnezone's unique ability to trap and eliminate Steel-type pokémon that would otherwise give my two Dragons a hard time. What's interesting is that these two Dragons serve as bait to lure out their Steel-type counters, which are then swiftly dealt with by the trapping Magnezone. Then I figured if I could eliminate all of CursePert's potential counters, ie. Celebi, and other bulky waters, I could attempt a sweep with it. Was I successful in my team building process? That is up to you to decide.

For people who are too lazy to actually read through the descriptions, here are the six members of my team at a quick glance, along with their held items:

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Now let's take a look at the type resistance and weakness chart, courtesy of Marriland:



As you can see from the chart above, my team does have four quadruple weaknesses, but one glaring weakness from one member of the team is generally well covered by the rest of the team.

Well I'm certainly not going to stall any longer, so without much further ado, I present to you my team of what I think is the best type combination in the pokémon metagame.


The Steels


1. What? I am a surprisingly good Anti-Lead...



Empoleon (M) @ Wide Lens
Modest Nature | Torrent
156 Hit Points | 252 Special Attack | 100 Speed

Moveset:

Stealth Rock

Hydro Pump
Aqua Jet
Grass Knot


Moveset Analysis:
  • Stealth Rock: My team is highly offensive, with Swampert being the only member primarily focused on defense. Stealth Rock is essentially a necessity for the team, and Empoleon is bulky enough to get the job done.
  • Hydro Pump: Empoleon strongest and a generally reliable STAB move. With Empoleon's competent Special Attack stat, Hydro Pump deals massive damage to bulky Ground-types, and fragile sweepers in general. Wide Lens raises Hydro Pump's shaky 80% accuracy to a more reliable 88%.
  • Aqua Jet: Empoleon may not have the attack to deal much damage with this move, but with Hydro Pump's overwhelming power, most suicide leads will be reduced to their Focus Sash, if not knocked out completely. With the Sash gone, they can be immediately dispatched by Aqua Jet.
  • Grass Knot: This is Empoleon's best (and only) answer to the omnipresent Swampert Lead. Grass Knot has a base power of 80 on Swampert, which means that a standard MixPert takes between 94%-110% from it. Opponents will general withdraw Swampert upon witnessing the entrance of Empoleon, providing me with the opportunity to set up Stealth Rock immediately.
Why did I choose Empoleon?

Empoleon certainly isn't a lead that one would normally expect to see on the Pokémon battlefield. As I've previously mentioned, my team had to consist of Pokémon of the Dragon and Steel-types, however I felt that there weren't any Dragon-types that could make suitable leads. I could lead with Salamence and attempt a sweep right off the bat, but without Stealth Rock in play, it would be extremely difficult. Plus, a ridiculously high number of leads carry Focus Sash, or some sort of status move. So I turned to the Steel-type. What opportunities lay there? There was Jirachi, who had the ability to use Serene Grace and Iron Head to eliminate fast and fragile leads, and Trick a Choice Scarf onto slower and bulkier leads. But Jirachi Leads are pretty commonly seen nowadays, and they lack the ability to do any real damage to things like Swampert and Hippowdon. They cannot prevent Stealth Rock from being set up, even if they do succeed in Tricking a Scarf onto the opposing lead. Then, of course, one could not forget Heatran with a Shuca Berry. Again, quite overused and abused, and it could not effectively deal with Swampert and Hippowdon without having to resort to sacrifice a slot to Hidden Power. It was then that I was made aware of Empoleon's potential as a lead, after stumbling upon it while browsing through Smogon one day. I love it for its ability to eliminate common leads, but at the same time carry the bulk to be able to set up entry hazards. The EV spread allows it to outspeed the likes of Metagross, Tyranitar and Machamp, and generally do serious damage before they can retaliate. The HP EVs give it considerable bulk, and ensures its survival again non-STABed Earthquakes, Electric, and Fighting-type attacks. As for the item, I had once considered using a Chople Berry, which would allow it to beat out Infernape and Lucario leads, but as I would have to sacrifice Hydro Pump's accuracy, I felt it was unnecessary. Lead Infernape do not threaten this team a great deal, and Lucario leads are seldom seen. Empoleon's role extends beyond acting as an Anti-Lead and Lead-in-one. With its plethora of resistances, (twelve to be exact, second to only Magnezone in OU) and a quadruple weakness to both Ice and Steel-type (yes, that means you, Scizor) attacks, it can easily switch in and threaten the opponent with its extremely powerful Hydro Pump. Overall, Empoleon is a great Pokémon that definitely should not be underestimated.

Team Synergy:

Salamence | Latias
Swampert | Latias | Magnezone
Salamence | Latias

How Empoleon handles (or does not handle) opposing leads:
: Reduced down to its Sash by Hydro Pump, then finished off with Aqua Jet.
: Will usually Taunt first, and is eliminated via same procedure as Azelf.
: Very uncommon, but I generally will have to sacrifice Empoleon to sleep, and switch out to Mence.
: Variants that carry Earthquake are a bit of a pain, ones with only Gyro Ball can be set up on. Hydro Pump does 42.60% - 50.30% to 252/92 Sassy Bronzong.
: Honestly, I've never faced one before. But I suppose Stealth Rock, then Grass Knot.
: Hydro Pump is generally a 2HKO (82.77% - 97.46%), but I might set up Stealth Rock first.
: Both Focus Blast and Thunderbolt fail to OHKO, providing they are unboosted, and providing Gengar does not put me to sleep, Hydro Pump + Aqua Jet does the trick.
: Unboosted Earthquake fails to OHKO without significant EV investment, whereas Hydro Pump is an easy OHKO on standard 252/0 Gliscor.
: Uncommon, and causes problems. Grass Knot would be a 3HKO, but I won't likely stay in to take Earthquakes.
: Hydro Pump is an easy OHKO on standard 4/0 Timid variants.
: Hydro Pump does 108.10% - 127.14% to 252/88 Impish Hippo, even in Sandstorm.
: I could potentially OHKO Life Orb leads with Hydro Pump, or use the famous combo for variants with Sash, as they'll most likely set up Stealth Rock the first turn. But I generally don't take the risk.
: Empoleon 4x resists Iron Head, so Jirachi will most likely use Trick on the first turn. I switch to Magnezone, who already has a Scarf, to trap and eliminate it.
: Empoleon evidently cannot take a STAB Earthquake from this beast, so I will typically switch to one of my Dragons, then to Scizor to take the Ice attack and 2HKO with Bullet Punch. A bit of a nuisance.
: Hydro Pump is a 2HKO (58.52% - 68.68%) on 252/0 Adamant Metagross, whereas Earthquake fails to OHKO Empoleon.
: Again, a nuisance. I guess the only thing I can do is to keep Aqua Jetting.
: These will common lead to set up entry hazards, and they don't bother my team too much. So I will usually sacrifice either Swampert or Empoleon to take the Spore.
: I switch into Latias to take the Thunderbolt, then OHKO with Draco Meteor.
: Standard MixPert's Earthquake does not OHKO, but it takes 94.06% - 110.64% from Grass Knot, a likely OHKO.
: Never faced one before. Although they do invest heavily in Special Defense, they generally lack any offensive moves that would hurt Empoleon.
: Hydro Pump deals 79.08% - 92.91% to 4/0 Hasty Weavile, a 2HKO. Anti-Lead Weavile generally lack moves that can hurt Empoleon.


2. You can run from me, but you can't hide. Wait...you can't run either.



Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Rash Nature | Magnet Pull
4 Hit Points | 252 Special Attack | 252 Speed

Moveset:

Thunderbolt
Signal Beam

Hidden Power

Explosion


Moveset Analysis:

  • Thunderbolt: Boasting a Special Attack stat of 393 and a base 95 damage STAB move, Magnezone does serious damage with Thunderbolt to anything that does not resist it. Perfect for eliminating Skarmory and Water-types, and Magnezone's best answer to Heatran.
  • Signal Beam: This is present on the set for a sole purpose: to eliminate Celebi. It deals 90.10% - 106.19% to 252/0 Bold Celebi (which is the standard), and is therefore a guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock damage.
  • Hidden Power (Fire): Self-explantory, really. It easily OHKOs both Forretress and Scizor, deals 80.50% - 94.68% to 4/0 Lucario, which is a guaranteed KO after two uses of Life Orb, and inflicts 47.09% - 55.40% to 80/0 Jolly Jirachi, a likely 2HKO.
  • Explosion: With Magnezone's measly base 70 attack, this will only be useful against frail sweepers, and Blissey. Explosion only deals 68.21% - 80.25% to 252/252 Bold Blissey, which is unfortunate. But it is only used in desperation, after all.
Why did I choose Magnezone?

Magnezone is a unique pokémon. Whereas it suffers from three annoying weaknesses, including a nasty quadruple weakness to Ground, it makes up for this with the fact that it takes neutral damage from only one type and boasts 13 resistances. In addition, it carries the useful trait of being able to prevent the escape of any Steel-type pokémon without a Shed Shell. As previously stated, Dragon-type attacks are only resisted by Steel-types, and Magnezone makes life easier for my Dragon duo by wiping these pokémon off the map. With the ability to come in on Scizor's Bullet Punch (something that it spams), and Heatran's Dragon Pulse (the only reason why a Heatran would switch into a Salamence would be due to the fact that it carries a Choice Scarf), it can swiftly dispose of both of them with its mighty fists (or magnets) of Steel. It is also able to trap and eliminate Skarmory and Forretress with generally no threat to itself, however these Magnezone-fearing pokémon may carry a Shed Shell. Magnezone's base 115 defense allows it to take unboosted Outrages and retaliate with a swift and powerful Thunderbolt. With a Choice Scarf and a neutral speed nature, Magnezone hits 327 speed, which is unfortunately one speed point short of achieving a speed tie with max speed Salamence. I used a + Special Attack nature instead because I felt that Magnezone needed the extra attack boost, and outspeeding Salamence was not so much of a concern, as Magnezone serves a sole purpose to eliminate Steel-types. Magnezone may lack the speed and the stat-boosting moves to sweep entire teams, but with such a unique typing, and such a helpful ability, it plays an undeniably vital role in the success of my team.

Team Synergy:

Salamence | Latias
Salamence | Latias
Salamence | Latias | Swampert


3. Just because everyone and their mother has one...



Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature | Technician
248 Hit Points | 252 Attack | 4 Special Defense | 4 Speed

Moveset:

Bullet Punch

U-turn

Superpower
Pursuit

Moveset Description:

  • Bullet Punch: With Technician and STAB factored in. the originally base 40 move reaches a respectable 90 base power. Add that to Scizor's sky-high 591 attack (with Choice Band), and you get a fearsome combination. Bullet Punch allows Scizor to finish off weakened and/or frail Sweepers, in spite of its mediocre speed.
  • U-turn: The best option for scouting in the metagame, it becomes an extremely powerful move in the hands of the beast we call Scizor. It deals massive damage to bulky Psychics like Cresselia, and spells death to even the bulkiest of Celebi. It is unique in that it allows Scizor to escape from the iron grip of a trapping Magnezone.
  • Superpower: Scizor's answer to Steel-types that would normally wall its entire set. Even though Scizor does not receive STAB for it, it is still extremely powerful, capable of knocking out the most defensive of Blissey, as well as both Magnezone (172/0 Steel Killer variant), and Heatran should they have the temptation to switch in.
  • Pursuit: Scizor is able to trap frail Ghost and Psychic types with the notion of "will I Bullet Punch or will I Pursuit?". Regardless of whether or not they stay in, Pursuit is a OHKO on the likes of Gengar and Alakazam (the former occasionally carries Hidden Power Fire), as Technician boosts its base power from 40 to 60.
Why did I choose Scizor?

Do I even need to answer this question? Scizor is the definition of fear in today's metagame. Salamence giving you problems? Send out Scizor. Gengar getting on your nerves? Send out Scizor. Is Blissey too fat for your liking? Send out Scizor. Every single team must carry a reliable counter to Scizor (and by reliable I don't mean Magnezone, as it is OHKOed by Superpower), as it is just too overwhelming powerful to be ignored. And I sure haven't ignored it. It's been featured in the majority of my teams so far, and for a good reason. It simply has no equal. It is unparalleled when it comes to scouting and dealing massive damage at the same time, and makes a very capable revenge killer with Bullet Punch and its unique ability. In addition, it possesses the defensive stats and resistances (10!) necessary to survive switch-ins (unless they're attacks of the Fire-type) and become an immediate threat with its Choice Band set. I chose to invest 4 EVs into Special Defense to fall one point short of a speed tie with opposing Choice Band Scizor. This gives me the advantage of being able to U-turn second, which also allows me to see which pokémon my opponent switches to. Scizor is simply too amazing to resist, just like how the combination of these four moves is not resisted by any pokémon in the OU metagame (I know that was a horrible pun).

Team Synergy:

Salamence | Latias | Swampert


The Dragons

4. The Omnipotent Beast of the Sky



Salamence (F) @ Life Orb
Jolly Nature | Intimidate
4 Hit Points | 252 Attack | 252 Speed

Moveset:

Dragon Dance

Outrage

Earthquake
Stone Edge


Moveset Analysis:
  • Dragon Dance:I shouldn't have to explain that this is a staple on all offensive, non-Choice Salamence sets. Salamence already has impressive attack and speed, but with Dragon Dance under its belt, it becomes even more fearsome.
  • Outrage: With the addition of a base 180 power move into its arsenal after the release of Platinum, Salamence has turned into a powerhouse of a physical sweeper. With all the Steel-types out of the way (courtesy to Magnezone), not many Pokémon will enjoy taking such a powerful attack.
  • Earthquake: Even with all the Steel-types out of the way, Salamence will often have to rely on secondary attacks in order to refrain from locking itself into Outrage. Earthquake is a very good choice for a move, as it maintains a balance between both power and accuracy.
  • Thunder Fang: This is where it starts to get rather odd. Most Salamence sets carry either Fire Blast or Stone Edge for the final moveslot. So why did I decide to use Thunder Fang instead? Gyarados often switch confidently into Salamence, as the vast , majority carry Fire Blast as opposed to Stone Edge. Thunder Fang provides a quick and dirty way of disposing of the overgrown sea monster, and also aides in the crippling of Water-types such as Starmie.
Why did I choose Salamence?

I really didn't have much of a choice, to be honest. There are only so many Dragon-types in the OU tier, after all. Dragonite lacked the speed necessary to be too much of a threat; Flygon had the speed, but lacked the offensive stats and did not have access to Dragon Dance; and Kingdra had bulk, but did not have much to offer in terms of speed and sheer power. In addition, it did not have access to Earthquake, and did not help my team with synergy. So I turned to Salamence, as it was the best option. Don't get me wrong; I did not choose Salamence solely out of desperation. It is by no means not a capable and effective sweeper. In fact, it has a good reason to be one of the most widely used offensive player in the history of Pokémon. It has much to offer in terms of versatility, and generally cannot be matched when it comes to unpredictability. It also possesses an ability that no other Dragon-type can claim to have: Intimidate. Salamence's defenses are certainly not the best, but with 95 base HP it can be surprisingly bulky. And if we factor in Intimidate, we'll find that Salamence can be surprisingly efficient in walling a vast number of physical attacks, including the omnipresent Close Combat, Waterfall, and Earthquake. On the special end of the spectrum, Salamence resists both Surf and Flamethrower, and boasts a quadruple resistance to Grass-type attacks such as Grass Knot and Energy Ball. I chose to go with a Jolly nature over Adamant because with a metagame as fast-paced and hard-hitting as the current one, speed is life.

Team Synergy:

Empoleon | Scizor | Magnezone
Swampert | Empoleon | Magnezone
Magnezone | Scizor | Empoleon



5. The Mystical and Majestic Maiden of Alto Mare



Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature | Levitate
80 Hit Points | 252 Special Attack | 176 Speed

Moveset:

Draco Meteor

Thunderbolt
Surf
Trick



Moveset Analysis:
  • Draco Meteor: As Latias will typically be serving the role of a revenge killer, Draco Meteor is ideal for its moveset. Latias's base 110 special attack stat is certainly not to be underestimated, and with such a powerful special attack in Draco Meteor, she is capable of swift OHKOs against the likes of Salamence, Dragonite, Flygon, as well as opposing offensively-based Latias.
  • Thunderbolt: This move is very useful against the common Bulky Waters such as Vaporeon and Suicune. Whereas Draco Meteor boasts an amazing base power of 210 factoring in STAB, which is greater than Thunderbolt's base 190 power after factoring in super-effective damage, Latias must rely on consistency as opposed to sheer power when dealing with study Water-types like Vaporeon and Suicune. Thunderbolt also comes in handy as a additional method of eliminating Gyarados.
  • Surf: Latias's best answer to Infernape (whom it generally walls to a great extent), as well as the variety bulky Ground-type Pokémon in the metagame. However, when it comes to hitting Steel-types for neutral damage, it is irrelevant whether Surf or Thunderbolt is used, as they have the same base power.
  • Trick: A quick and dirty way of screwing up set ups, Trick can be used on bulky waters and other walls and seriously hinder their ability to effectively perform their duties. Once they are in possession of a Choice Scarf, they must decide between attacking, recovering, and inflicting status.
Why did I choose Latias?

Latias has a nice balance of defensive bulk, offensive stats, and impressive speed, which makes it the perfect choice for a revenge killer for my team. With a Choice Scarf, a Timid nature, and 176 Speed EVs, Latias hits 330 Speed, which means that it is capable of outpacing even the fastest of Salamence after a single Dragon Dance (it is able to outpace max speed ScarfMence as well), and proceed to finish it off with a Draco Meteor. That being said, it is evidently able to outpace other Dragon Dancers such as Gyarados and Dragonite and finish them off with super-effective moves as well. The remaining 80 EVs were invested into HP to increase Latias's bulk and survivability. I generally try my best to free Latias from the wrath of the Choice Scarf every chance I have, and it normally receives Leftovers in return, which is always beneficial to its well-being. Don't be fooled by Latias's innocent and harmless-looking exterior. The cuteness that she is blessed with parallels how dangerous she can truly be.

Team Synergy:

Empoleon | Scizor | Magnezone
Salamence | Magnezone | Empoleon | Scizor
Scizor | Empoleon | Magnezone
Scizor | Empoleon | Magnezone
Magnezone | Scizor | Empoleon



The Wild Card

6. Well, I certainly feel out of place...



Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Careful Nature | Torrent
252 Hit Points | 160 Defense | 96 Special Defense

Moveset:

Curse
Earthquake
Avalanche
Rest


Moveset Analysis:

  • Curse: Well, I couldn't find a fancy icon for the ??? type, so I just used the Ghost-type. Anyhow, Swampert is a pretty bulky Pokémon in general, but it is primarily used to wall physical attacks, and that is why this set is primarily focused on physical defense. Curse not only increases defense, but boosts attack as well, turning Swampert into a potent physical attacker.
  • Earthquake: Earthquake is hands-down the best physical attack in the game. Dealing 100 damage, and boasting 100% accuracy, it hits five types of Pokémon for super-effective damage (Fire, Rock, Steel, Poison, and Electric), and does not have any negative side effects. Swampert receives STAB for it as well, which is definitely a well-appreciated bonus.
  • Avalanche: After Swampert sets up a single Curse, Swampert hits around 380 defense. With 404 HP and 380 defense, it is nearly impervious to any kind of physical attack, and with Curse lowering its speed stat, it will undoubtedly be able to strike last and do massive damage with a base 120 damage move. Dealing with physical Salamence, Dragonite, and Flygon is a breeze with Avalanche.
  • Rest: Waterfall used to occupy this spot, until I discovered that Rest provided Swampert with an easy way to get rid of status problems (especially the annoying Poison that comes from Toxic Spikes...). Swampert is the only Pokémon on my team vulnerable to Toxic Spikes, therefore Rest is a welcomed addition to its moveset.
Why did I choose Swampert?

I'm sort of getting tired of answering these questions...To be honest, I really had no idea what to put in this slot, as felt that my team was complete without the addition of a third Dragon-type. Then I noticed that, once again, my team was slightly Tyranitar weak (as are pretty much all my teams). And of course, my mind just jumped to Swampert, because it is after all one of the best defensive Tyranitar counters. The only thing it has a reason to fear is the extremely rare Hidden Power (Grass) coming from a Mixed Dragon Dance variant. But I didn't just want to go with the standard MixPert, or even the slightly less common Physical Swampert, as I felt that they were two unoriginal, and lacked a sense of...refinement. Then I thought about the under appreciated and underused CursePert set. As Smogon says, it has the potential to hit a lot harder if allowed to set up, so all I had to worry about was removing its counters. Looking down that list, one of the biggest ones ones that come into mind is Celebi. But I've already got that handled with my Scizor, and Signal Beam on Magnezone (which generally comes as a surprise). Secondly, bulky Waters such as Milotic, Suicune, and Vaporeon seem to give Swampy a hard time. Magnezone and Empoleon can do serious damage to these (Empoleon with Grass Knot, and 'zone with Thunderbolt), and they can also be crippled by Latias's Trick. Of course, then there are Zapdos, Gengar, and other Pokémon with weird Hidden Powers, but these can generally be predicted and dealt with. I'm not going to go through the details, as I will post a threat list later.

Team Synergy:

Salamence | Latias | Scizor | Magnezone



Changes Log:
  • Removed Flash Cannon on Magnezone and replaced it with Signal Beam
  • Changed Magnezone's nature from Naive to Rash
  • Removed Fire Blast on Salamence and replaced it with Thunder Fang
  • Changed Salamence's nature from Naive to Jolly
  • Moved 80 EVs on Latias from Speed to HP
  • Replaced Nasty Plot Azelf with CursePert
  • Removed Waterfall on Swampert and replaced it with Rest
  • Removed Thunder Fang on Salamence and replaced it with Stone Edge
 
Threat List

On the Offense:

Aerodactyl: More often than not Choice Banded. Latias can come in on an EQ and then immediately threaten with any of its moves. Scizor tears it apart with Bullet Punch. Empoleon can survive an non-CB'ed Earthquake and retaliate with Hydro Pump.
Alakazam: Generally stopped by Latias; the only thing she needs to watch out for is a Specs-boosted Shadow Ball. Scizor also finishes it off with bullet Punch.
Azelf: Hardly seen outside of a lead, but Nasty Plot variants can generally be handled quite nicely by Latias. Empoleon generally isn't that threatened by anything it packs either. Mence can generally come in on physical variants. Scizor can finish weakened ones will Bullet Punch if necessary.
Breloom: I will generally sacrifice something to take the sleep, and then switch into Salamence to wall it. Most Breloom carry Seed Bomb, but if it does in fact carry Stone Edge, Latias may be the best option. Scizor also does a lot with Bullet Punch, but I'll only risk it if it's already weakened.
Celebi: Latias is probably my best option against an offensive Celebi. Scizor can also scare it out if it lacks HP Fire, and Salamence can set up on it if it lacks HP Ice.
Dragonite: Outsped after one DD by Latias, and finished off with Draco Meteor. Swampert can take it fine as long it hasn't set up too much. Scizor's Bullet Punch for weakened ones.
Electivire: Latias, Latias, Latias. Can outspeed E-Vire even after it's received Motor Boost, and do serious damage with Draco Meteor. Swampert is generally not threatened by it either.
Empoleon: Ridiculous as it seems, my own Empoleon can generally wall any opposing Empoleon attempting a sweep. other than that, Latias can take it if it lacks Ice Beam, and Swampert can do fine if it lacks Grass Knot. And of course, 'Zone can trap it.
Flygon:
Latias comes in on an EQ, and OHKOs with Draco Meteor. Swampert can Avalanche it. Scizor can Bullet Punch to finish off weakened ones.
Gengar: Scizor traps it if it's Choiced. It also fails to KO Empoleon if it is Choiced, and is in turn OHKOed by Hydro Pump. Latias can also take un-Scarfed versions as Shadow Ball shouldn't do too much if unboosted.
Gliscor: Swampert, generally. Latias also isn't too threatened by it.
Gyarados: The answer is Latias. And of course, Salamence. When all else fails, Empoleon can try to finish it with Grass Knot (but only if it lacks Earthquake).
Heatran: Magnezone comes in on a Choiced Dragon Pulse or HP Grass and finishes it off. Latias generally is a pretty safe switch-in. Empoleon isn't too threatened by Earth Power, and can KO with Hydro Pump.
Heracross: Salamence is the best initial switch-in. Intimidate really helps. Latias can work too, but coming in on a Choiced Close Combat will probably hurt a ton. Scizor can also finish off weakened ones with Bullet Punch.
Infernape: Salamence and Latias are two pretty decent checks to the mighty monkey. They both have to watch out for HP Ice, however. If it's purely physical, then Swampert generally can take it providing it's had a Curse up.
Jirachi: Magnezone. It is only really threatened by HP Ground, which is hardly ever seen. Empoleon can generally wall it as well, and is only threatened by Trick.
Jolteon: The best initial switch is Swampert, as it is immune to Thunderbolt, but then I must make sure that it does not have HP Grass. Anyhow, Latias can generally take it pretty well, as it does outspeed it and it does resist Thunderbolt.
Kingdra: Empoleon walls the hell out of it. Latias can outspeed it after one DD and do serious damage with Draco Meteor. Swampert can stop physical variants in their tracks if it has a Curse set up.
Latias: If it has HP Fire, then I'm in trouble. My own Latias is my only real check to an opposing Latias, which isn't good. I can explode on it if I'm desperate.
Lucario: Magnezone traps it, outspeeds it, and does serious damage with HP Fire. Salamence is good initial switch-in because of Intimidate. Swampert doesn't like boosted Close Combats, but can KO with Earthquake.
Machamp: A bit of a tough one here. Nothing on my team likes confusion.
Magnezone: Any team carrying more than one steel must be Magnezone weak. My team is no exception.
Mamoswine: Latias can take an Ice Shard, although it doesn't like it very much. Scizor can KO with Bullet Punch. Magnezone can explode. Swampert can take it fine if it has Curses up.
Metagross: All long as it's not Choiced, Empoleon can survive an EQ and 2HKO with Hydro Pump. Swampert also stop Metagross in its tracks. If it's choiced, I can lock it into Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch or Ice Punch, and then finish it with Magnezone.
Porygon-Z: As long as it lacks HP Fire, Scizor generally walls it, although it doesn't like taking Nasty Plot boosted attacks. Latias can also do serious damage with Draco Meteor, and outspeeds it. Magnezone walls every move that it normally carries (that isn't an HP), but doesn't like taking repeated attacks on the special side of the spectrum.
Rhyperior: Even after a Rock Polish, if fails to outspeed Latias. Swampert can also take it if it has a Curse up. If it lacks Rock Polish, then it isn't too much of a threat.
Rotom Formes: Honestly, I have no clue how to handle these things, as I've never battled much on Shoddy and they are hardly ever seen on Wi-Fi (as you must hack to get them).
Salamence: Latias. Swampert. Scizor for weakened ones.
Scizor: Magnezone. Case closed. Salamence can also take advantage of Choiced ones locked on Pursuit, or Superpower.
Snorlax: Scizor outpseeds the fat man and does serious damage with Superpower as long as it doesn't have too much Curses up. Swampert can generally take it as well.
Starmie: Latias is probably the best initial switch-in. If it lacks Grass Knot, then Swampert only needs to watch out for Hydro Pump, generally.
Suicune: Empoleon walls anything it usually carries, Latias can Trick a Scarf onto it, and Magnezone can Thunderbolt it to death.
Togekiss: I suppose Magnezone, but only if I can guarantee a KO with Thunderbolt. Latias as well, too an extent. In general, a bit of a pain.
Tyranitar: Swampert is a great general counter. Scizor can finish off with Bullet Punch. And to an extent, Empoleon is a counter.
Weavile: Swampert and Scizor. Then there's Empoleon (it doesn't take that much from Brick Break).
Zapdos: Nobody uses these offensively anyways. But I suppose Salamence if it lacks HP Ice (and maybe Latias would work as well), and Swampert if it lacks HP Grass.
 
This is the part where I'd ordinarally tell you all the reasons why dragonites bulk makes up for its spd in many ways however sense you already have 4 bulky pokemon there's really no need to go into further detail.

I like your team overall because of the idea in it. My only suggestion to you is to make scizor into a swords dance variant. I noticed your team has alot of bulk but not to much sweeping. This is the main reason.
 
This is the part where I'd ordinarally tell you all the reasons why dragonites bulk makes up for its spd in many ways however sense you already have 4 bulky pokemon there's really no need to go into further detail.

I like your team overall because of the idea in it. My only suggestion to you is to make scizor into a swords dance variant. I noticed your team has alot of bulk but not to much sweeping. This is the main reason.
Maybe, but then I have to drop U-turn, which I seriously don't want to do as it provides scouting opportunities to the team. Also, Swords Dance variants are trapped by Magnezone much more easily.
 
Use The ground attack weakening berry on your empoleon over wide lens. Most of your threats are using a groung move, and the ones you may OHKO with hydro pump can OHKo u back if you miss, while the berry saves you and gives you 2 chances to hit
 
That may be the case but Scizor are still mauled by magnezone in any case. You don't neccesarally have to get rid of U-turn. Getting rid of pursuit turns it into a late game sweeper which your team would find useful in the long run.
 
Use The ground attack weakening berry on your empoleon over wide lens. Most of your threats are using a groung move, and the ones you may OHKO with hydro pump can OHKo u back if you miss, while the berry saves you and gives you 2 chances to hit
Empoleon can generally survive unSTABed Earthquakes and unboosted STABed Earthquakes fine, providing it's not a critical hit. It also outspeeds most of these pokémon, which means that it can land two Hydro Pumps. With Empoleon's beastly special attack, and the base 180 powerness, 2 hydro pumps are generally enough to take out the even the bulkiest of pokemon. Wide Lens also makes Empoleon a more reliable in the late-game. I can abuse its resistances and switch into just about anything.

Whereas if I use a Shuca Berry, I'll take a lot less damage from EQs and will be able to survive an EQ from max attack Mamoswine, but 80% accuracy is extremely shaky. It's like Stone Edge, and I know from personal experience that Stone Edge cannot be trusted...

That may be the case but Scizor are still mauled by magnezone in any case. You don't neccesarally have to get rid of U-turn. Getting rid of pursuit turns it into a late game sweeper which your team would find useful in the long run.
Not if Magnezone gets hit by a CB'ed Magnezone when it switches in =O

But anyhow, ehh...I'll give it a try. But if I run the SD variant, then I'm going to have to invest significantly in Speed to outrun random things...then that totally takes away from the bulk of it all. Or I could run bulky Scizor with little attack investment and Roost...ugh I don't know XD
 
Not if Magnezone gets hit by a CB'ed Magnezone when it switches in =O

But anyhow, ehh...I'll give it a try. But if I run the SD variant, then I'm going to have to invest significantly in Speed to outrun random things...then that totally takes away from the bulk of it all. Or I could run bulky Scizor with little attack investment and Roost...ugh I don't know XD


Second, you can run a bulky set with swords dance. Scizor's attack compinsates for the lack of evs. just put what you can into speed without destroying its bulk and it should work out.
 
Second, you can run a bulky set with swords dance. Scizor's attack compinsates for the lack of evs. just put what you can into speed without destroying its bulk and it should work out.
I was considering the spread 252 HP / 72 Atk / 180 SDef / 4 Spd or something of the like; you think it would be necessary to invest in physical defense as well?
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Hey the reason why people are not replying is because this is actually pretty good and wont need much changes, needless to say I like the format, enjoyable and the team is not that bad. To get on with the rate, I'm only making a suggestion, but Scarf Latias lacks recovery meaning Latias checks a number of things, and I mean a number, it won't enjoy constant shots from it, specifically from Heatran, Infernape, etc. With that being said, Latias doesn't want the hits to be taken too much be, so I will suggest a Vaporeon over Swampert and it has its purposes:

Vaporeon
@ Leftovers
Bold Nature (Def+ / Atk-)
252 Hp / 252 Def / 6 SpA

- Surf
- Hidden Power Electric
- Wish
- Protect

Vaporeon fits in a like a charm and it has its reasons. It allows Vaporeon to check a number of things Latias needs, like Heatran and Infernape. Where as swampert has that nasty x4 weakness to Grass and mix version easily hurt you. The purpose is that you don't want Latias to keep taking hits as it will eventually drop soon. This acts as a safety check to those who attack Latias and can provide Wish support. The typical Babiri Tyranitar can only muster up around 51% max with a +1 Stone Edge, enough to Wish Protect stall its precious PP. HP Electric nails Gyarados, Surf hits Infernape and Tyranitar while Wish is a wildcard as it acts as a good healing recovery on your offensive team mates, particulary Scizor who is a crucial member on your team. Overall give this a try. gl.
 
Hey the reason why people are not replying is because this is actually pretty good and wont need much changes, needless to say I like the format, enjoyable and the team is not that bad. To get on with the rate, I'm only making a suggestion, but Scarf Latias lacks recovery meaning Latias checks a number of things, and I mean a number, it won't enjoy constant shots from it, specifically from Heatran, Infernape, etc. With that being said, Latias doesn't want the hits to be taken too much be, so I will suggest a Vaporeon over Swampert and it has its purposes:

Vaporeon
@ Leftovers
Bold Nature (Def+ / Atk-)
252 Hp / 252 Def / 6 SpA

- Surf
- Hidden Power Electric
- Wish
- Protect

Vaporeon fits in a like a charm and it has its reasons. It allows Vaporeon to check a number of things Latias needs, like Heatran and Infernape. Where as swampert has that nasty x4 weakness to Grass and mix version easily hurt you. The purpose is that you don't want Latias to keep taking hits as it will eventually drop soon. This acts as a safety check to those who attack Latias and can provide Wish support. The typical Babiri Tyranitar can only muster up around 51% max with a +1 Stone Edge, enough to Wish Protect stall its precious PP. HP Electric nails Gyarados, Surf hits Infernape and Tyranitar while Wish is a wildcard as it acts as a good healing recovery on your offensive team mates, particulary Scizor who is a crucial member on your team. Overall give this a try. gl.
Thanks for the kind words. I did give Vaporeon a try yesterday. The fact that it could Wish-Protect and "Wish-pass" was a great addition to my team. Salamence and Latias often took too much damage from Stealth Rock, and it was really helpful in keeping them healthy. However, with the departure of Swampert came problems from Salamence. If I were to ever lose Latias in some accident, standard DD Mence with Fire Blast would certainly give me a lot of nightmares. I could only hope to tempt it into locking itself into Outrage by sending out my own Salamence, then finishing it off with either Scizor or Magnezone. HP Electric is definitely a useful move on Vaporeon, as it allows it to not get walled by bulky waters, but hitting Gyarados is the least of my concerns, as I think I've got it covered quite well. Not sure how much HP Electric would do to the standard Salamence, but Ice Beam would undoubtedly be the better option.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Yeah, I knew I forgot something. My first suggestion was Life Orb and Vaporeon, but Salamence would be a threat so I left Hp Electric on my accident. Ice Beam is the better option, and can 'prevent' Salamence from getting one Dragon Dance up.
 
Yeah, I knew I forgot something. My first suggestion was Life Orb and Vaporeon, but Salamence would be a threat so I left Hp Electric on my accident. Ice Beam is the better option, and can 'prevent' Salamence from getting one Dragon Dance up.
What if I put both Ice Beam AND HP Electric on the same set? That would give me a harder time Wishing, but I coverage-wise that would be awesome.
 
DD mence shouldn't be so bad even if you don't have pert. Scizor can revenge kill it with BP, even if latias dies.

Not too much to say, nice team. Every offensive player has a team like this :D
 
DD mence shouldn't be so bad even if you don't have pert. Scizor can revenge kill it with BP, even if latias dies.

Not too much to say, nice team. Every offensive player has a team like this :D
Yes, that may be the case, but Scizor can only do around 50-60% to it with Bullet Punch. If Latias dies, the only way I can lock it into Outrage is if I send Mence in as bait, and if that's the case it can always Stone Edge me. In other words, I'm going to have to wait for Life Orb to take its toll before I can strike.
 
Yeah, definitely change Magnezone's nature to Rash.

After that, you need a more reliable way of taking out Rotoms, they're everywhere on Shoddy.
Yeah, actually it's supposed to Rash. I don't know why I put Mild o.o

And as for Rotoms...eh iunno. I don't play on Shoddy much anyways.
 
Yes, that may be the case, but Scizor can only do around 50-60% to it with Bullet Punch. If Latias dies, the only way I can lock it into Outrage is if I send Mence in as bait, and if that's the case it can always Stone Edge me. In other words, I'm going to have to wait for Life Orb to take its toll before I can strike.
CB BP does 60-70%. Both mixmence and DDmence uses LO, so you have a good chance of KOing it either way.
 
Just a nitpick here, but Maggy is wasting his Speed I think. I mean with a rash nature you only need 200EVs to outrun Jolly Luke, 204 as you are using HP Fire. And you may even want to use 208 as that would outrun everything that tries to outrun Lucario by one point. Like 176Spe Zapdos/Celebi and Banded Flygon.
 
Just a nitpick here, but Maggy is wasting his Speed I think. I mean with a rash nature you only need 200EVs to outrun Jolly Luke, 204 as you are using HP Fire. And you may even want to use 208 as that would outrun everything that tries to outrun Lucario by one point. Like 176Spe Zapdos/Celebi and Banded Flygon.
Hm, you're right about that....not that I would try to stay in on a Zapdos or a Flygon in the first place...=\
 
Not a full rate, but for your leadpoleon, replace grass knot for HP electric. You can still beat Swampert (Hydro pump 2HKOs) but you can also beat lead Gyarados. Also replace wide lens for the berry that reduces fighting moves to beat leadapes. So you pretty much do everything you did before with it, except now you beat gyara and leadape for a little drop in accuracy.
 
Because you are so adamant about not using a type resist berry, I would recommend Surf with Splash plate which has only 6 BP, 9 with STAB less than Hydro Pump, but it has 12 more accuracy, and 16 more PP. Splash Plate also helps with Aqua Jet, but you probably aren't using that as your main move, although it can help in a few situations..
 

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