Dry Passing

[Colonel M]

I just decided to post this for some free haha reacts.

Memes aside, I want to have a serious discussion on dry passing. There are a couple obstacles to dry passing in general, but my post will attempt to address those obstacles with potential solutions.

First, let's talk about Baton Pass. Baton Pass is one of the most controversial moves in Smogon history. As a mechanic, many people either wanted the move banned, limited in passers, or kept around within their metagame. This has led to heavy handed opinions on the move itself being banned as a solution that keeps complexity away while addressing the core issue.

Now I'm sure some sick sycophant will dig up a rather old post of mine in response to Deck Knight and point out that I said "screw complex bans". At the time, I did feel that complex bans were absurd at face value and likely could lead to bad slippery slopes such as "why not just ban King's Shield on Aegislash since King's Shield is the problem" without realizing that the combination of King's Shield AND Aegislash were the core problems of the Pokemon. Basically, there are multiple moving parts that made Aegislash broken in previous generations.

With hypocrisy out of the way, let's begin.

Dry Passing is merely pivoting

The core reason to have dry passing is because it can also be used purely as a move for momentum rather than passing stat boosts. Teleport, U-turn, Volt Switch, and Parting Shot are all used as pivoting moves (albeit with less controversial side effects). With dry passing, only moves like Wish can really be passed. Meanwhile, it is a benefit to defensive Pokemon such as Shedinja and at times was sometimes used on offensive Pokemon like Specs Espeon.

With Dry Passing only, the move technically has negative effects

Baton Pass's unique mechanic of passing boosts, debuffs, and some status ailments is a mixed blessing. In Dry Passing, only negative effects such as from Intimidate or confusion from Hurricane are passed. While it's true you could argue "someone could use Swagger and pass the Attack boosts", this assumes your opponent is dumb enough to use Swagger AND that you're using a Pokemon with Baton Pass, which more than likely would be rare in OU as an example. This makes Baton Pass an inferior method to pivoting over its other move counterparts.

The Complex Ban

The biggest obstacle is getting people on board with the complex ban. That said, the complex ban for allowing dry passing only can be relatively simple:

Pokemon who have boosted their stats - with items, moves, or abilities used by itself - cannot be passed.

This means that it would be illegal to use combinations such as Weakness Policy into Baton Pass, or using Agility + Baton Pass Shedinja as another example. To me, such a thing is not very complex in terms of understanding and gets the core point across. That of course being that we see passing stat boosts as a problem, but using the move merely as a pivoting move is acceptable.

You could ask the question "should Baton Pass + stat boosting moves be allowed as a combination on a Pokemon?", which I think warrants legitimate discussion. You could argue that it would not be allowed to help simplify the circumstances of the ban and, in most cases like with SS, Baton Pass used as a pivot move to escape Pursuit is no longer a concern since the move doesn't exist. Thus, Pokemon such as Calm Mind Latios or Latias would likely use coverage or other utility moves with their sets. You could argue, though, the combination could be allowed solely on the fact that it is assumed that you cannot pass boosts whatsoever, but you can use the move freely for yourself. Galarian Mr. Mime or Mr. Rime both have access to Rapid Spin as an example, and preventing Rapid Spin just to have access to Baton Pass is kind of a weird situation when you could use Baton Pass for dry passing on a predicted switch instead.

This would in theory mean that Baton Pass is always banned on Ninjask, Scolipede, Blaziken, Malamar, and I'm sure a few others - though I guess you could argue using Infiltrator Ninjask or non-Contrary moves on Malamar because you're kind of not smart or something. Note that, from what I'm aware of, you cannot pass boosts that don't have a stat change. Such examples would be like Flash Fire from Flareon and Kanto Rapidash.

Conclusion

I would not see such a topic as a high priority, but I think the theory of allowing dry passing could be seen as beneficial as another pivot move and benefits some Pokemon again such as BW Celebi. While it is few in numbers, there are Pokemon that can benefit from this mechanic being allowed and there are ways to make it so that the move itself cannot be abused for what deemed it broken in the first place. I also think this discussion is healthy for discussing complex bans as a whole and trying to be more open-minded on the subject.

 

[Kink]

So, in fairness, in SS, Teleport is literally dry-passing without the negative effects. I think this is something worth considering in deciding complex bans and baton passing.

I think this is the scope of the discussion, with some assumptions included for ease of understanding:

• Obviously, the nature of the dry-passing itself is not a problem. Baton Pass is a shittier Teleport, because you retain the stat drops/confusion as OP stated. Further, as OP stated, we have zero issue with Teleport, U-turn, Volt Switch, and Parting Shot. The only exception is Rapid Spin + Passing, which is limited to only a few mons.
• We have banned Baton Pass in its full use because of the destabilizing effect it has on almost every metagame, from almost every iteration since it was first banned. Banning baton pass is almost contrary to our overall Smogon tiering philosophy, which is that "we try to replicate the games as accurately as possible". However, our primary goal (even when we take into account our overall tiering philosophy) is to create a metagame that's stable and allows 'skill' to perform as the defining metric by which we measure success.
• Since we have created/developed previous metas in the past which dry-passing is allowed, it's not radical to suggest that taking a look at the scope of dry-passing is fine to do, for the purposes of developing a more skill-based meta.
• As a result, our primary focus isn't on whether or not dry-passing, as a concept, is a justifiable strategy; again, Teleport performs this function and the recent distribution to mons suggests it was intended to use competitively for this purpose.
• This means, that our true determination is how it affects the mons that have access to Baton Pass, but can't use it due to bans, and whether or not them using it would create unhealthy, radical shifts in the meta in which skill-based metrics become less important or, even worse, takes away the focus of skill from our playing completely.
• In conclusion of this preliminary analysis, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with dry-passing, as a strategic concept, since it already exists in other forms. Our purpose is to figure out, very simply, if dry-passing makes things better for the game we love (once we account for all the effects it'll have on our meta).

SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO EVALUATE HERE? Here are questions we have to answer before "testing" dry-passing:

1. Do we care whether or not the handful of mons that have access to Baton Pass can now use dry-passing to generate momentum? Why do we care, and how does this affect our metagame?
2. Does giving those mons access to a momentum-generating move generate a destabilizing effect on our metagame? Does it promote unhealthy, uncompetitive, or unskillful play? How does it do so, and is dry-passing the culprit of this destabilizing effect, or is it a catalyst for a larger problem (for example, say, all dry-passing being bad for our meta, including Teleport or Parting Shot?)
3. Are we prepared to implement this complex ban in the form of only dry-passing? How does this affect the perceptions of our meta?
4. Are we prepared to admit that by adding this complex ban, we are placing our commitment to skill higher than our commitment to in-game battling accuracy?
5. Will this be done generation-wide (uniformity) or decided by the TLs independently? How does this affect the perception of each tier that chooses to adopt this complex ban?

There are probably a few more questions to answer. And honestly, these are not easy questions to answer. Let's face it: Teleport is a sick move. We all use it, so it's not the concept of dry-passing that's the issue, but whether or not we're prepared to make custom tiering decisions for the benefit of the greater good.

I'm not here to offer a set opinion on this, though I'll speak briefly on the issue - frankly, if it were up to me, I'd probably leave it alone and not touch this can of worms. However, I see it as my responsibility to weigh the discussion fairly. If Dry-passing became permitted, I would want to see it implemented uniformly across all tiers. My reason for suggesting so is because I believe complex bans, especially within an active generation, is a site-wide concern.

I was unhappy with previous iterations of the complex ban, such as in ORAS. I think that a lack of uniformity is a recipe for tier disparity, and isolates the skillsets used across the tiers. To me, this does not promote a healthy SS metagame and further splinters Smogon as a site that 'does its own thing'. While I appreciate Smogon for its unique culture, I appreciate the aspect that attempts, in good faith, to stick to the games as closely as possible.

My post is purely to get people to start thinking about the issues in way that sees the issues more from a bird's-eye-view. I hope this explanation will help individuals with tiering experience to weigh in. Thanks for the time you took to read this.

 

[Finchinator]

The Complex Ban

The biggest obstacle is getting people on board with the complex ban. That said, the complex ban for allowing dry passing only can be relatively simple:

Pokemon who have boosted their stats - with items, moves, or abilities used by itself - cannot be passed.

This means that it would be illegal to use combinations such as Weakness Policy into Baton Pass, or using Agility + Baton Pass Shedinja as another example. To me, such a thing is not very complex in terms of understanding and gets the core point across.

It does not necessarily matter how complex the ban is; it still sets the same precedent that we have actively been trying to avoid.

I firmly believe it is best we do not apply any complex bans to SS tiers (or new complex bans to old generations) if at all possible. Once we open this door, it is very hard to close it and what that entails can be far less than ideal. I am content with the move Baton Pass banned from SS tiers.

 

[Specs]

There are so few Pokemon this generation that would use the move I really don't see dry passing being freed as a negative to any tier. I've been a fan of the idea to free dry passing for awhile. It didn't feel weird to have the move banned as a whole, but always bothered me a bit that say Mawile in early SwSh PU couldn't pivot with Baton Pass + Intimidate, when nothing about it was broken at all. Pokemon is enjoyable because there is so much you can do, having so many options to use.

While there are positives to freeing dry-pass, Finch makes a really good point. Does this open up the floodgates? I'm fine with freeing dry-pass on its own from a competitive standpoint, but what does this mean for everything else that might not be broken but is banned because of being tied up with something else. Are we able to limit this to just dry passing? Despite me being okay with freeing Dry Pass, it depends on the after effects.

It sucks that we wouldn't be able to free a legitimately fine move because of creating a precedent for the future, but I'd have to agree for now that I don't like where this could potentially go.

 

[Niko]

I would just think at banning broken Teleport before unbanning Baton Pass, just doesn't make sense while we have the port.

 

[termi]

It does not necessarily matter how complex the ban is; it still sets the same precedent that we have actively been trying to avoid.

I firmly believe it is best we do not apply any complex bans to SS tiers (or new complex bans to old generations) if at all possible. Once we open this door, it is very hard to close it and what that entails can be far less than ideal. I am content with the move Baton Pass banned from SS tiers.

I'm pretty ambivalent on the question of drypass and in fact lean towards "it's not worth the trouble so just keep it as is" but I do have to wonder with regard to this point: what sort of precedent is really being set here? Baton Pass is a very singular move, so it would not be entirely weird to see it being treated in a singular way - in fact, many variations of complex bans were tried on it in the past. What sort of bearing does this have on other elements of the metagame? Is it really imaginable that someone would be able to say "because a complex ban on Baton Pass happened, we should also do a complex ban on (e.g.) Dragon Dance Kyurem-B" and be taken seriously by others? If we want the argument that a complex ban of any kind sets a precedent for future complex bans to hold any water, it will require further elaboration instead of being treated as a truism of sorts.

To be honest, I generally don't find this "prevent complex bans at all costs" philosophy very valid. Tiering is a contextual affair, and while in most cases a simple ban on a Pokemon is sufficient and in fact encouraged, we should not shy away from different approaches in situations where the competitive benefits of a more complex ban clearly outweigh the costs. It is clear that a ban on Speed Boost Blaziken (to take the most cliche example) has marginal benefits while setting a very clear precedent that could influence tiering decisions, making it a case where potential negative consequences outweigh any benefits; it is much less clear how (to take a historical example) a ban on Drizzle + Swift Swim would have negative consequences down the line, as the amount of cases it could be analogous to and therefore set a clear precedent for is very limited. Anyway, I will not go too off topic. My central point in any case is that any claim that a certain ban sets a precedent should be specified further.

 

[Finchinator]

I'm pretty ambivalent on the question of drypass and in fact lean towards "it's not worth the trouble so just keep it as is" but I do have to wonder with regard to this point: what sort of precedent is really being set here? Baton Pass is a very singular move, so it would not be entirely weird to see it being treated in a singular way - in fact, many variations of complex bans were tried on it in the past.

Ban of [move] + [game condition], instead of banning a Pokemon abusing the move or the move outright, is the precedent it would set and there is no arguing that the OP's proposal would be doing precisely that. Baton Pass's history is not relevant in the modern day, especially with the modern generation complex bans being undone and largely regarded as ineffective or poor practice.

Is it really imaginable that someone would be able to say "because a complex ban on Baton Pass happened, we should also do a complex ban on (e.g.) Dragon Dance Kyurem-B" and be taken seriously by others?

Yes, absolutely. Even without this precedent in place, we have a consistent flow of people requesting complex bans at every single twist-and-turn this generation. This comes up frequently in our metagame discussion threads and responses to tiering surveys; I read through every post and response I can and it is far from just a handful of inexperienced players that argue this way. People are oftentimes hellbent on trying to preserve Pokemon on the cusp of being banned through complex solutions and enabling that is not something we should be doing.

If we are to complex ban Baton Pass in this fashion, we likely have to rework portions of our tiering philosophy as a whole and what we are suspecting as an extension. I do not believe salvaging dry Baton Pass is worth this.

 

[Martin]

I personally support the proposal in the OP. I’ve kinda changed my stance a bit on clausing over the past few years and I now think that the worries about precedent are largely unwarranted. So long as we have a clearly defined and consistent policy about what constitutes a valid complex ban, there isn’t really any risk of a torrent of complex clauses being enacted.

I think that, so long as we are addressing a specific exploitable mechanical interaction, then there is no real issue with using a "complex" clause to deal with it. I think it's fairly easy to draw a comparison between banning something like Permaweather+WeatherSpeed or Baton Pass+stat boosts and, say, enacting a ledge grab limit in Super Smash Bros. In such cases, players identify a way of exploiting the game's intended mechanics and can build a broken strategy around it, leading to TOs placing a restriction on how you can use the said mechanics in the interests of competitiveness.

I put "complex" in quotation marks here because, while it technically would be a complex ban, I think that these instances can be clearly distinguished from what I generally consider to be one, which itself is probably better defined as a set ban. A set ban would be banning something like Speed Boost Blaziken, Protean Greninja, Fisheous Rend Dracovish, Follow Me Jirachi, Libero Cinderace, etc. (i.e. banning part of a Pokemon rather than treating the Pokemon as a product of its parts: comparable to banning Cloud from using Limit Charge or Bayonetta from using Witch Time) and could lead to funny stuff like this happening if taken to its absolute extreme. Banning Baton Pass+stat boosts, or indeed banning DrizzleSwim, disallowing deliberate endless battles, or disallowing putting more than one opposing Pokemon to sleep, are simply banning specific strategies that are a) attached to the game's intended mechanics while b) being independent of what is using them, and as such I think it's better to call them strategy bans as opposed to complex bans.

I think that, as long as the difference between banning specific combinations of mechanics and banning specific combinations of Pokémon+part, Pokémon+Pokémon etc. is made explicit in our tiering policy, and/or differentiate between high- and low-level strategies (i.e. something an entire team or game plan can be built around exploiting—a centrepiece, if you like) that can be exploited independent of the attributes of the exploiter, there isn't any risk of setting any bad precedents. And if there is value in allowing something like drypassing (I think there is) then there isn't really any good reason to disallow it other than inane aesthetic sensibilities. It's not exactly a confusing restriction, and it is consistent with previous strategy bans as well. And for what it's worth, there are actually a few notable beneficiaries of such a a change across most tiers even with the removal of Pursuit (and consequently Pursuit evasion), for instance:

• Clefable can legally run the combination of Baton Pass+Soft-Boiled (Teleport+Soft-Boiled are incompatible)
• Umbreon and Sylveon would be able to run Wish+Baton Pass, improving their consistency in the role
• Mawile can take advantage of Intimidate+Baton Pass
• Shedinja can actually pivot again, which imo makes it far more interesting than something that just stalls with Wonder Guard+double status+Protect
• Probably some others that I'm unaware of

===============

Finchinator I hope I have addressed your concerns for obvious shit like Gorrilla Tactics Darmanitan etc., but if you're also worried about people using this as precedent for asking for combination of Teleport+Future Sight+Regenerator (all moves/abilities) on the same set to be banned (which I can see is already happening in the NP thread), I think your worries are somewhat misplaced. First things first: as you have noted, people will ask for weird, finicky bans like this no matter what precedents are in place. Part of the point of having a council is to recognise silly or over-complicated suggestions and to just not act upon them. And even if we set that aside, Future Sight+Regenerator+Teleport falls very concretely under the umbrella of a set ban as opposed to a strategy ban:

Even if people think that Slowbro and Slowking are broken with this combination of moves+abilities (I don't think they are, but for the sake of argument), the effectiveness of FuturePort relies on its user having a SpA stat that is at the very least passable (*cough* Slowpoke has base 40 *cough*) and consequently is not independent of its users in the way that, say, gen 5 Drizzle permanently doubles the speed of every Swift Swim user, FunBro-type strategies can be used by any Pokémon with the ability to trap and heal their opponent, or stat passing allows any BP user to pass multiple +6 boosts to Octillery, Kyurem, Marowak etc. Furthermore, while entire teams can be built around making use of the FuturePort+(typically-physical) wallbreaker concept, Regenerator does not directly tie in with such a strategy (and consequently you can't reasonably argue for the combination that only impacts the slowtwins to be banned as a strategy ban), nor can said strategy be treated as a team's centrepiece like stat passing, DrizzleSwim, or sleep spam can, and consequently it can not be considered high-level—hitting Toxapex with Future Sight is a micro interaction within the macro gameplan of beating your opponent to a pulp.

As you can see, it is very easy to identify what constitutes a strategy and what constitutes a set for the purposes of tiering, and as a rule of thumb, I think that cases where such a ban should be used are not only few and far between but also tend to jump out as obvious solutions to broad problems, which I feel applies in the case of dry passing. At the end of the day, the biggest issue with ruleset complexity always comes down to how practical it is to enforce, and distinguishing between sets and strategies is a very objective, easy-to-understand, and limited way of making them enforcable in instances where it is optimal. And if we're looking for a consistent way of building complex bans into policy, there isn't a better solution in my opinion.

 

[Merritt]

You could ask the question "should Baton Pass + stat boosting moves be allowed as a combination on a Pokemon?", which I think warrants legitimate discussion. You could argue that it would not be allowed to help simplify the circumstances of the ban and, in most cases like with SS, Baton Pass used as a pivot move to escape Pursuit is no longer a concern since the move doesn't exist. Thus, Pokemon such as Calm Mind Latios or Latias would likely use coverage or other utility moves with their sets. You could argue, though, the combination could be allowed solely on the fact that it is assumed that you cannot pass boosts whatsoever, but you can use the move freely for yourself. Galarian Mr. Mime or Mr. Rime both have access to Rapid Spin as an example, and preventing Rapid Spin just to have access to Baton Pass is kind of a weird situation when you could use Baton Pass for dry passing on a predicted switch instead.

I want to clarify something really quick. This technically would not be a complex ban, this would instead be a sim mod. Establishing sim mods, especially in modern generations, is frankly awful precedent on a level far beyond a complex ban. While you could argue that the Dynamax ban is also a sim mod (because it's something that isn't visible at teambuilder and is removing a button that exists on cart), this one goes further into the territory of sim mods like Sleep Clause because it's actively departing from the mechanics of the game.

Elaboration on that - if a Pokemon runs out of PP for every move except Baton Pass and has already used Calm Mind for example, what do they do? Are they forced to hard switch? What if they're trapped (by Magma Storm or Block) or are the final Pokemon remaining? Forcing Struggle is a behavior not consistent with cart, making it an automatic loss is adding a win condition, even in cases where on cart the Baton Pass Pokemon would win.

Sim mods should be an option of last resort, and implementing one purely to save drypassing seems absurd.


Anyways, let me list out what would be necessary to implement a teambuilder level ban against statpassing. All of the following are abilities, moves, or items that can result in a stat boost. Because I don't feel like typing out "Baton Pass+" a hundred times, all of these should have that implied.

Abilities

Anger Point
As One
Beast Boost
Berserk
Chilling Neigh
Competitive
Contrary
Dancer
Dauntless Shield
Defiant
Download
Grim Neigh
Intrepid Sword
Justified
Lightning Rod
Moody* (already banned)
Motor Drive
Moxie
Pickpocket
Pickup
Rattled
Sap Sipper
Soul-Heart
Speed Boost
Stamina
Steadfast
Steam Engine
Storm Drain
Trace
Wandering Spirit
Water Compaction
Weak Armor

*Magic Bounce is a weird one because it can be used to boost your own stats if the opponent has it but can't be used to boost the Baton Pass user's stats if the BP user has it

Items

Apicot Berry
Ganlon Berry
Kee Berry
Lansat Berry (if crit rate up counts as a stat change)
Liechi Berry
Maranga Berry
Petaya Berry
Salac Berry
Starf Berry
Absorb Bulb
Adrenaline Orb
Blunder Policy
Cell Battery
Electric Seed
Grassy Seed
Luminous Moss
Misty Seed
Psychic Seed
Snowball
Throat Spray
Weakness Policy

Moves

The following list is only current gen

Agility
Ancient Power
Aura Wheel
Autotomize
Clangorous Soul
Dragon Dance
Flame Charge
Geomancy
No Retreat
Quiver Dance
Rapid Spin
Rock Polish
Shell Smash
Shift Gear
Belly Drum
Bulk Up
Coil
Curse
Growth
Hone Claws
Howl
Metal Claw
Meteor Mash
Power-Up Punch
Swords Dance
Work Up
Calm Mind
Charge Beam
Fiery Dance
Nasty Plot
Acid Armor
Cosmic Power
Cotton Guard
Defend Order
Defense Curl
Flower Shield
Harden
Iron Defense
Steel Wing
Stockpile
Stuff Cheeks
Withdraw
Amnesia
Charge
Double Team* (already banned)
Minimize* (already banned)
Acupressure
Copycat
Focus Energy (if crit rate counts as stat change)
Guard Swap
Heart Swap
Gear Up
Magnetic Flux
Me First
Metronome
Mimic
Mirror Move
Power Swap
Psych Up
Role Play
Skill Swap
Switcheroo
Thief
Trick

*Entrainment, Magic Coat, and Topsy Turvy, much like Magic Bounce, cannot be used to boost the Baton Pass user's stats if the user has it but only if the opponent has it and uses it at appropriate times

Multiple other moves would also qualify if this is applied to prior generations, such as Snatch, Tail Glow, and a few others. Most notably this also means banning Baton Pass paired with a vast number of status moves in generation 7, including things like Defog, Sunny Day, and Stealth Rock unless we go a step further complex and ban "Baton Pass+[large number of status moves]+[correct Z crystal for those various status moves]" which definitely rewrites precedents set in generation 7 about banning z crystals and moves.

I believe this is a fairly comprehensive list of the at least 112 complex bans that would need to be implemented to free drypassing in generation 8 as the OP suggests. I may have missed a few moves, abilities, or items. Note that not all of these are relevant to ban, as there may not be a Pokemon with the combination of Baton Pass+(specific move or ability).

 

[Colonel M]

I want to clarify something really quick. This technically would not be a complex ban, this would instead be a sim mod. Establishing sim mods, especially in modern generations, is frankly awful precedent on a level far beyond a complex ban. While you could argue that the Dynamax ban is also a sim mod (because it's something that isn't visible at teambuilder and is removing a button that exists on cart), this one goes further into the territory of sim mods like Sleep Clause because it's actively departing from the mechanics of the game.

Elaboration on that - if a Pokemon runs out of PP for every move except Baton Pass and has already used Calm Mind for example, what do they do? Are they forced to hard switch? What if they're trapped (by Magma Storm or Block) or are the final Pokemon remaining? Forcing Struggle is a behavior not consistent with cart, making it an automatic loss is adding a win condition, even in cases where on cart the Baton Pass Pokemon would win.

Sim mods should be an option of last resort, and implementing one purely to save drypassing seems absurd.


Anyways, let me list out what would be necessary to implement a teambuilder level ban against statpassing. All of the following are abilities, moves, or items that can result in a stat boost. Because I don't feel like typing out "Baton Pass+" a hundred times, all of these should have that implied.

Abilities

Anger Point
As One
Beast Boost
Berserk
Chilling Neigh
Competitive
Contrary
Dancer
Dauntless Shield
Defiant
Download
Grim Neigh
Intrepid Sword
Justified
Lightning Rod
Moody* (already banned)
Motor Drive
Moxie
Pickpocket
Pickup
Rattled
Sap Sipper
Soul-Heart
Speed Boost
Stamina
Steadfast
Steam Engine
Storm Drain
Trace
Wandering Spirit
Water Compaction
Weak Armor

*Magic Bounce is a weird one because it can be used to boost your own stats if the opponent has it but can't be used to boost the Baton Pass user's stats if the BP user has it

Items

Apicot Berry
Ganlon Berry
Kee Berry
Lansat Berry (if crit rate up counts as a stat change)
Liechi Berry
Maranga Berry
Petaya Berry
Salac Berry
Starf Berry
Absorb Bulb
Adrenaline Orb
Blunder Policy
Cell Battery
Electric Seed
Grassy Seed
Luminous Moss
Misty Seed
Psychic Seed
Snowball
Throat Spray
Weakness Policy

Moves

The following list is only current gen

Agility
Ancient Power
Aura Wheel
Autotomize
Clangorous Soul
Dragon Dance
Flame Charge
Geomancy
No Retreat
Quiver Dance
Rapid Spin
Rock Polish
Shell Smash
Shift Gear
Belly Drum
Bulk Up
Coil
Curse
Growth
Hone Claws
Howl
Metal Claw
Meteor Mash
Power-Up Punch
Swords Dance
Work Up
Calm Mind
Charge Beam
Fiery Dance
Nasty Plot
Acid Armor
Cosmic Power
Cotton Guard
Defend Order
Defense Curl
Flower Shield
Harden
Iron Defense
Steel Wing
Stockpile
Stuff Cheeks
Withdraw
Amnesia
Charge
Double Team* (already banned)
Minimize* (already banned)
Acupressure
Copycat
Focus Energy (if crit rate counts as stat change)
Guard Swap
Heart Swap
Gear Up
Magnetic Flux
Me First
Metronome
Mimic
Mirror Move
Power Swap
Psych Up
Role Play
Skill Swap
Switcheroo
Thief
Trick

*Entrainment, Magic Coat, and Topsy Turvy, much like Magic Bounce, cannot be used to boost the Baton Pass user's stats if the user has it but only if the opponent has it and uses it at appropriate times

Multiple other moves would also qualify if this is applied to prior generations, such as Snatch, Tail Glow, and a few others. Most notably this also means banning Baton Pass paired with a vast number of status moves in generation 7, including things like Defog, Sunny Day, and Stealth Rock unless we go a step further complex and ban "Baton Pass+[large number of status moves]+[correct Z crystal for those various status moves]" which definitely rewrites precedents set in generation 7 about banning z crystals and moves.

I believe this is a fairly comprehensive list of the at least 112 complex bans that would need to be implemented to free drypassing in generation 8 as the OP suggests. I may have missed a few moves, abilities, or items. Note that not all of these are relevant to ban, as there may not be a Pokemon with the combination of Baton Pass+(specific move or ability).

Situations like this I've considered (I forgot to mention Substitute as another example, but yes I would likely have this bundled). This brings up an interesting point on the headache that it would cause. Thus, it would probably just be easier that no stat boosting moves are allowed with Baton Pass whatsoever (and Substitute / items / abilities) to simplify the situation. This would also prevent the hurdles that exist - though I'd like to also mention that we've bypassed such scenarios before with headaches like Sleep Clause and Encore + trapping (relevant prior to Shadow Tag and Arena Trap bans) as well as RBY Counter (something that has already "patched" how the move works vs cartridge).

 

[faint]

What is the argument behind "no complex bans"? Even in instances where a solution adds something more to the tier, such as allowing dry passing, it gets stopped because it is "complex." I truly don't understand it. Why do we insist on intentionally limiting certain mons from being used, even if they're pretty shit, solely because it's easier? Are we afraid of a New Clause? The way I see it, you're fighting a losing battle by imposing these limitations when the list of mons, abilities, and moves is only going to grow bigger.

Even looking at BP itself, we have:

ADV: limit of 3 users
DPP: banned
BW: one user, but no passing speed + another stat
XY: banned
SM: banned
SS: banned

If we are truly against "complex bans," which we should not be, why is BP not blanket banned in BW? Are we saying BW OU is managed poorly? There's no consistency, and if you insist on non-complex bans being the rule of the way, that means applying said consistency to older tiers such as BW OU.

Consider my incoherent rant a full endorsement of bringing back drypassing.