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Gen 3 dual screen bp celebi team

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Squarewalker, Feb 4, 2011.

  1. Squarewalker

    Squarewalker

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    336
    Celebi @ Leftovers ** ...
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Baton Pass
    - Light Screen
    - Recover
    - Reflect

    thought of this set almost 4 years ago right around the time when NB died so I couldn't test it out back then

    Baton Pass for the extremely crucial scouting, and also for getting away from the Dugtrio switch-in that will hopefully come in while I use Reflect (without Reflect, at full hp without sandstorm it'll generally survive even Adamant hp:bug anyway) or better yet during a Baton Pass so I can switch to my Dugtrio straight away, as well as for seeing if CBTars will FP or not

    needless to say it's ridiculously hard to kill, and it's the core of the team that let's everything survive for as long as possible


    Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band ** ...
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 204 Atk / 252 Spd / 52 SDef
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Aerial Ace
    - Beat Up
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Bug]

    IVs of course set to still have 372 spd while having hp:bug. When Jolly, it doesn't need the max Atk EVs since it fails to 2hko blissey and to ohko some less defensive TTars/Metas/Jirachis (I have Spikes anyway though), so I put those into SDef to survive Raikou hp:crass/ice even when Light Screen isn't up

    Speaking of 2HKO'ing Blissey, Beat Up does that just fine when none of my team is statused (and Beat Up can't even be Countered), and not having Rock Slide doesn't matter anyway (only things RS would hit harder are stuff that don't get trapped by Arena Trap)

    ...until they realise that I don't have RS, at which point I can no longer switch this into their Moltres/etc. after that killed something to get a free switch to Starmie/Gengar/Raikou as they switch out to another one of their pokes. but killing Blissey is much more important, and they still risk losing their Moltres or whatever if they thought wrong

    bp to this also obviously means Heracross, Houndoom and other Dugtrios (unless they also are Jolly with the changed IVs in which case I'll risk the 50/50) get easily picked off; hp:fire Sceptiles that have no way to get max spd IV are also dying to this

    Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers ** ...
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind

    with Sleep Talk, those EVs and dual screen support, there's no way this is ever going to die (without chs or Rock Slide flinchax); if absolutely necessary, it can wall even some special attackers with a stab fire/electric move, as long as LS is up. some lucky Sleep Talk'd WWs can prevent slower stuff from Resting and therefore dying to Spikes

    and if I don't find out earlier that they have Magneton (some people are obviously very careful with when to send it in), with so much SDef I don't have the risk of losing Skarm right off the bat. with LS up, some retardedly EV'd (and probably Timid instead of Modest) Magnetons can't even 3hko this

    tbh in general when I lose, it's due to Skarm getting killed by a ch from something since I rely on it a bit too much

    Gengar (F) @ Leftovers ** ...
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hypnosis
    - Mean Look
    - Perish Song
    - Protect

    probably the most OU poke in today's very stale metagame within this sadly mostly dead adv community
    out of all variants, this and cbgar are probably the least expected sets

    blocks spin, almost guaranteed to kill at least one poke, and even when it doesn't have enough hp left to commit to killing a 2nd one, it can still force switches by just switching in, by even Mean Look-less Perish Song, and by Hypnosis (since I'll generally take out their main Sleep Ta(l)ker heh); forcing switches is obviously good with Spikes support!

    speaking of Spikes, I'm willing to even sacrifice this in exchange for their spinner (especially if that happens to be Starmie or Claydol) because this team has trouble dealing actual damage to Flygon/Claydol + Snorlax (but the latter can be worn down by Spikes... hence why I need to get rid of their spinner), but especially to Flygon + Snorlax + Starmie; max Spd on Gengar is also to have a better chance at taking out Starmie, unless they go 352+ speed

    note that if Gengar dies during the turn when the perish count would drop to 1, switching Dugtrio in afterwards (obviously only if Arena Trap can trap the target), then switching the hell out will still of course kill the Perish Song'd poke

    Starmie @ Leftovers ** ...
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 108 HP / 148 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    Hydro Pump with so many SAtk EVs can deal a ridiculous amount of damage to Snorlax with Spikes down, especially if the opponent also packs TTar and really wants to reduce his special tank's usefulness by pretty much completely fucking it over with sandstream. Celebi + Skarm can wall the dragons all day, but I need a way to actually kill them, hence why Ice Beam is there. Hydro Pump may not have that many PP for a stall team, especially with the amount of Pressure pokes in stall vs stall situations, but I can predict well enough not to waste it needlessly.

    Raikou @ Leftovers ** ...
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 140 Spd / 116 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Thunder

    all of its threats (with the exception of Flygon and Claydol) get worn down by Spikes + Dugtrio. Thunder for the boosted damage against Snorlax; with Reflect support, I'm willing to risk missing a few times; the higher par chance on other stuff is also nice

    also one of the best counters out there against these dual status, fire punch, giga drain, etc. Gengars (need to be careful with Explosion though)

    thing is, I have to show them early on that I have this, in order to defend against Gengar (it's only so often when Celebi can Light Screen and pass to Skarm/Starmie/my own Gengar), and they'll soon realise that I only have an electric move

    but it doesn't even matter, because this team can still stall them out regardless



    on paper (well also actually), this team has terrible problems with Taunt Gyarados, but in the 30 or so games adv OU games I could find on NBS and Pokemon Online combined since I returned to playing, I've only seen 1 Gyara so far, and even that had Double-Edge over Taunt against the ever so common Zapdos that completely shuts down any Taunt sets that had therefore died out so long ago, that I'm not going to be worried about them...

    (besides, I don't really see any way to remedy that weakness without some drastic changes; adding Drill Peck+Roar over Sleep Talk+WW on Skarm is not going to work as Sleep Talk is far too essential on that set)


    similarly to that, Taunt in general could probably give this team problems. But Umbreon usage is dead; and needs to pass to Moltres or something to OHKO Skarm, and if he leads with Umbreon, I will just LS first turn during Mean Look, and then pass to Skarm. If he passes to something other than Taunt Gyarados or DDTar with Taunt, I can p-haze them out.

    Speaking of which, a late-game DDTar with Taunt could potentially cause problems. All TTars I've encountered however were either CB, or if DD, then with Ice Beam/Counter/Double-Edge/hp:crass or some other anti-Flygon/Claydol/Pert move instead of Taunt (if Taunt DDTar ever becomes a problem, I can sacrifice some SAtk in exchange for speed on Starmie to outspeed max speed Adamant TTars after 1 DD, and revengekill with Dugtrio if necessary; perhaps even Surf > Hydro Pump not to risk missing in such a case, and as well as for more PP, although I'd depend too much on Raikou then)

    similarly, not going to worry too much about BOAH BOAH BOAH SPamming it that died long ago when Swampert and Heracross got more popular and Skarmbliss became uncommon; Skarm can take t-bolts from it anyway, especially with LS


    although I dislike the term, metagaming works in a dead metagame I suppose. Have a nice day.
  2. gene

    gene GENE
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winner

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    Messages:
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    your team has huge problems with flygon and subpunch/hp bug ttar. you're gonna have to hope dugtrio can kill it before he gets a sub in. thunder and hydro pump are terrible moves, i don't see why anyone would gamble with that shit. also raikou/gengar/celebi are too easily dealt with. once they figure out raikou is a free switch for grounds and celebi is a free switch for anything, you're gonna be in trouble. sorry, but it seems like it only works well on paper and against people who make obvious plays.
  3. Squarewalker

    Squarewalker

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    336
    that ttar can only really get a free switch-in on Celebi (and I suppose if dugtrio is locked into something else other than earthquake), but I can put up Reflect even directly against it; with Reflect up, 403 Atk hp:bug against 262 Def Celebi only deals 39-45% damage that can be Recovered off later on. then I can just bp to Skarm who can deal with subpunch with Reflect up

    (only problem is when I think ttar is non-cb and it's actually cb, but I generally figure that out from spikes or otherwise, and I bp on first turn with Celebi)

    similarly, Flygon, even with cb, can only deal around 47-55% damage with hp:bug against Celebi with Reflect (and if Flygon is Jolly, then even less. he will be faster so I can't directly put up Reflect against him the first time, but I can just switch to Skarm then). Fire Blast is barely a 3hko on Skarm with no Light Screen up. no cb means Celebi + Skarm still wall him.

    cb or not, it does become an endless prediction and stallwar though until only Flygon is left. I might just put Toxic over Beat Up on Dugtrio as a desperate way to take down Flygon mid-late when their beller is dead; if Flygon will want to switch in on Celebi, I'll bp to Dugtrio, and if they suspect something, then whatever they switch out to will eat Toxic instead (and hopefully won't pack Rest) so I'll still be 1 less poke away from stalling them out
  4. Pirotechnix

    Pirotechnix

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    99
    That Celebi setup is pretty useless. All you're doing is baton passing to scout switches and "pass" screens, which might be OK if the rest of your team could actually do anything with them besides hope the opponent doesn't know how to handle spikes. You might get a surprise once with Cel -> Dugtrio, but other than that Celebi is setup bait.

    If an opponent's team has a spinner/isn't affected much by spikes [read: most high-level teams], your team has lost any sense of offensive bite. Everything on your team that can actually generate offense is too frail, or the set too easily played around, like G80 mentioned. At the very least, put Destiny Bond or an attack on Gengar over Protect/Hypnosis. Better yet, don't go for the set at all. You're going to be wasting turns setting up the sequence which, like your Dugtrio, will probably only ever work once on a good player, if at all, before you're inevitably KOed.

    Theme of your team is way too much setup work for too little payoff.

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