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Dusclops (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by religiousjedi, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    QC Checks: PK Gaming, Snunch, Delta 2777
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    Mind Controller's Analysis

    [Overview]

    <p>Formerly the best ADV OU spinblocker, Dusclops fell from grace during DPP due to the addition of Dusknoir and the Rotom Appliances. BW brought about the addition of Eviolite, which allows Dusclops to perform defensive duties better than Dusknoir due to a 50% buff to its defenses. This item, two useful immunities, and Pressure allow Dusclops to absorb hits while distributing statuses such as burn and poison. Coupled with the fact that the Rotom Appliances lost their Ghost typing with the generation shift, Dusclops can now compete comfortably for the role of best spinblocker in UU.</p>

    <p>There are some disadvantages to using Eviolite; it means Dusclops is without Leftovers recovery, forcing it to rely on less reliable forms of recovery, such as Pain Split or Rest, which can leave Dusclops in a tight spot if forced out. Unlike big brother Dusknoir, who has useable Base 100 Attack, Dusclops barely scratches opponents with its Base 70 Attack and Base 60 Special Attack, so it has to resort to set power moves like Night Shade or Seismic Toss to inflict any damage. To top it all off, entry hazards and status greatly ruin Dusclops's walling capabilities, so one must take care to avoid them. All in all, Dusclops remains the same as it was since it premiered in ADV, and, even with some bumps along the road, the Ghost-type does justice to its walling and spinblocking duties.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Pain Split
    move 3: Toxic / Taunt
    move 4: Night Shade
    item: Evolite
    ability: Pressure
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to Eviolite, Dusclops becomes a near impenetrable wall that can inflict burn or poison status. The EV spread gives Dusclops 284/561/474 defenses, which allows it to deal with the numerous physical attackers in the tier. Therefore, Will-O-Wisp is the preferred status move for Dusclops, as it can survive a good amount of hits from physical attackers and cripple them with a burn. For a secondary status move, Toxic compliments Dusclops's tanking ability against other walls, such as Milotic. With Night Shade on hand, Dusclops completely ignores the defense boost provided by Marvel Scale and wears down Milotic using Night Shade and Pain Split. Night Shade is chosen over Seismic Toss to break through Mismagius's Substitutes and hit other Ghost-type Pokemon. Most of Seismic Toss's primary targets, Normal-types, are crippled with Will-O-Wisp, and Chansey, the only exception, can easily heal off the damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If you have no problems dealing with Flash Fire Pokemon, who gain a boost to their Fire-type attacks when hit by Will-O-Wisp, Taunt can be used over Toxic to shut down opposing walls. Seismic Toss can be used in place of Toxic, granting Dusclops perfect coverage while also minimizing the effectiveness of opposing Taunt users. This also allows Dusclops to avoid being walled by Normal-types such as Ambipom and Snorlax. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD can be used if a more balanced distribution is desired. This spread gives Dusclops better special defense at the cost of physical defense.</p>

    <p>Dusclops is susceptible to status and entry hazards, so Rapid Spin and cleric support are greatly welcomed. Xatu can reflect back entry hazards and any status moves aimed at Dusclops thanks to Magic Bounce. However, both share Dark and Ghost weaknesses, so if you prefer a spinner, Hitmontop is a better choice, as it can take unboosted Ghost-type attacks decently and resist the STAB of and subsequently scare off Dark-types. As for a cleric, Chansey compliments Dusclops's physically defensive capabilities by absorbing special hits. Chansey can also neutralize Ghost-type moves, while Dusclops can block Fighting-type moves that threaten Chansey. Wish and Aromatherapy support also greatly benefit Dusclops. For offensive partners, Steel-types can soak up Dark- and Ghost-type moves and hit back with their own STAB moves. Bisharp and Empoleon are good examples of this, both switching in easily on either type.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Sleep Talk
    move 4: Night Shade
    item: Evolite
    ability: Pressure
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Rest and Sleep Talk have always been a great combination on any bulky Pokemon, and Dusclops is no exception. This set allows Dusclops to absorb any status, heal itself completely with Rest, and is able to continue attacking during the turns of sleep thanks to Sleep Talk. Will-O-Wisp is chosen over Toxic because it hits a wider range of Pokemon and cripples physical attackers. Much like the previous set, Night Shade is chosen over Seismic Toss to combat Ghost-types who run Substitute, such as Mismagius.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>You can go for Toxic over Will-O-Wisp, but only if you have other means of taking care of physical attackers. Note that there are two types immune to poison (Poison- and Steel-types) compared to one type being immune to burns (Fire-types). Unlike the previous set, this Dusclops doesn't mind entry hazards as much, since it can heal up status and damage with Rest. However, Fire-types, particularly those with Flash Fire, such as Arcanine and Houndoom, are much more dangerous thanks to the unreliability of Sleep Talk. Therefore, bulky Water-types, such as Milotic, make excellent partners, scaring away Fire-types with STAB Scald. Chansey is a stronger counter to this set, as it does not care about Will-O-Wisp and is immune to Night Shade. Fighting-types such as Heracross and Hitmontop can scare away the bloated blob; Dusclops attracts status inflicting moves, so switching in Heracross on the predicted Toxic from Chansey is beneficial. A Chansey of your own provide Aromatherapy support should Dusclops be forced to switch out while asleep.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Toxic stall may be viable with Protect, but Milotic pulls it off better thanks to Recover. Confuse Ray can be used to potentially cause switches or to discourage attacks. Trick Room is an option and Dusclops can repeatedly set it up due to its great defenses. However, it can't inflict meaningful damage and must constantly switch out to a Pokemon that can make effective use of Trick Room. Gravity is an okay support option; however, Dusknoir performs such duties better, as it has higher Attack with which to take advantage of DynamicPunch and Earthquake. In addition, Gravity Dusclops suffers the same problem Trick Room Dusclops faces in that it itself is unable to make much use of Gravity.</p>

    <p>Dusclops has a lot of physical moves such as Earthquake and the elemental punches, but its low Attack stat makes them unfavorable. Dusknoir makes much better use of these moves. Torment and Disable is an extremely annoying combination, but Dusclops is too slow to effectively pull it off. Memento can be used to help set up a teammate, although Dusclops is also too slow for that. Memento is also a waste of Dusclops's defensive capabilities. Seismic Toss can hit Normal-types, but most of them have too much HP or are burned into uselessness anyway. Dusclops has access to powerful specially based moves, such as Shadow Ball and Ice Beam, and can make use of them with Calm Mind. However, the poor damage output, even after two boosts, makes it an unattractive option.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Given Dusclops's lack of speed, anything with Substitute and a setup move can set itself up for a sweep. Normal-type sweepers are best, since they are immune to Night Shade, and Seismic Toss is rarely seen on Dusclops. Chansey wins one-on-one confrontations with Dusclops, since it can outstall most variants with Toxic and Softboiled or Wish. If it gets inflicted with a burn or poison, it simply needs to switch out to cure status or use Aromatherapy. Xatu is immune from non-damaging and status inflicting moves thanks to Magic Bounce and is able to outstall Dusclops with a combination of Night Shade and Roost. Hard hitters, such as Victini and Nidoking, are immune to burn and poison, respectively, and possess enough power to 2HKO Dusclops. Houndoom and Arcanine are immune to Will-O-Wisp and will enjoy the Flash Fire boost. In particular, Houndoom with Nasty Plot is especially deadly after the Flash Fire boost. Taunt users also screw Dusclops as most only carry one attacking move.</p>
  2. breh

    breh
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    awww I wanted this. when did it become available? ;_;

    anyway, I heavily, heavily suggest making the main set restalk. hell, I'm tempted to say that pain split should only get an ac mention at best. dusclops is really hindered by status; with rest, it is very good at being a last stand pokemon; it also gains much needed reliable recovery. it can literally stall out whole teams if you've eliminated its counters.
  3. PK Gaming

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    You actually read the previous QC recommendations and implemented them. [​IMG]

    @Breludicolo Rest Talk isn't as a reliable as main set, and that 2 turn down time turns Dusclops into set up fodder (even more so than usual) its a double edged sword imo. You gain the ability to instantly heal all of your damage, along with getting rid of status. However, if Dusclops forced out, the next time you come in you can't even reliably use Sleep Talk past turn 1 because the sleep counters reset. Its a good set, but the main set is more versatile and harder to use as set up fodder. Also pain splitting with Dusclops is awesome, its low HP absolutely cripples high HP walls like Chansey.

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  4. No Luck Involved

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    I'd agree with Breludicolo that I found RestTalk to be much more reliable. For a stall team (which I assume is the main kind of team that would use a Dusclops), the first set can be worn down and absolutely needs reliable Wish support whereas the RestTalker is almost impossible to break down and can really spin block time and again like a mofo.

    Wish support is easy with Chansey around which helps the first set a lot... But I'm still inclined back the RestTalker for its rock solid reliability to spin block. At least in my experience.

    @ PK Gaming: The sleep counter resets to 2 which removes any doubt of when RestTalkers wake up. It's actually made RestTalking quite reliable this gen.
  5. PK Gaming

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    Quite the contrary, Rest Talking is significantly worse in gen V.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3017749#post3017749
    When using Rest, your Pokemon wakes up on the 3rd turn. In gen IV, you could burn sleep turns, switch and always wake up on the third turn. However, in gen V switching out will reset the sleep counter, and you'll wake up on a random turn (1-3) Dusclops is a sitting duck if its forced out after resting because the user doesn't know if he / she should sleep talk or simply try to wake up normally. If you sleep talk and end up waking up thats an entire turn thats wasted.
  6. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    It's not random, you always wake up on the third turn because it resets... So there's no wasted Sleep Talking turns.

    Anyway, I was just sharing my experince and backing up Breludicolo's comments that the RestTalker is a lot harder to take down and it's not noticeably easier to set up on. It's not punished by Toxic and it can't be worn down over the course of a match. None of the spinners can do anything to it and are reduced to double switching to threaten Dusclops at all (which is always nice when they have hazards to clear). Foresight Hitmontop is the only thing that will annoy Dusclops, but it is annoyed by Will-O-Wisp in turn. Pain Split always makes Dusclops feel a bit vulnerable, and it relies on Chansey's Wish and Heal Bell a bit too much I feel. These are just my thoughts on Dusclops.
  7. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Even if that's the case, you're still asleep at the mercy of Sleep Talk choosing Rest, of all things...
  8. pie cream

    pie cream

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    even if you are using either set on a stall team you need wish and hell bell support fo any stall (well I do) and with pansplit you have more opthions you could use.
  9. PK Gaming

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    No you misunderstand, it IS random. The sleep counter resets and it doesn't act like rest anymore in gen V.

    EX:
    -Dusclops uses Rest
    -Dusclops burns 2 turns of sleep
    -Dusclops switches out (sleep counters reset)
    -Dusclops switches back in
    -Dusclops burns 1 turn of sleep
    -Dusclops wakes up the next turn because when you switch out "rest" sleep turns into "regular" sleep.

    see what I mean? Resttalk got hit hard in gen V.
  10. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    That's not the way it works on PO lol! Rest does not turn into regular sleep if you switch out, it keeps the 2 sleep turn timer.
  11. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Ah right my mistake. I just spent 10 minutes testing this for no reason X(

    I still stand by the standard set being used over the Restalk set. The sleep counters still reset, so you're forced to endure 2 turns of sleep each time you're forced out.
  12. No Luck Involved

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    Not wanting to be rude or anything but are you speaking from experience or just from the sets at a glance?

    I actually found the RestTalk set is more flexible and gives you more options because you can still avail of the support from Chansey but you also have an extra option of Rest should the need arise. It takes a lot of pressure off Chansey and allows you to be more flexible in your moves as you are not always thinking about getting Toxic off Dusclops or trying to switch in a low health Dusclops safely on a Wish. This extra flexibility allows your team to pretty much guarantee hazards are kept up at the expense of being a little more weak to Arcanine, Houndoom, Mismagius etc (but really, not much more at all). Anyway I'm rambling now and I trust whatever is decided, they are both good sets. Basically I feel that Pain Split Dusclops is too easily pushed into a corner with a well timed Toxic while it doesn't have a lot in advantages over RestTalk, especially with TSpikes support; and the disadvantage of sleeping turns is only really against Pokemon that give Pain Split Dusclops a hard time anyway so it's not really so keenly felt imo (plus the same cleric support Pain Split Dusclops needs can be used just as well to wake RestTalk Dusclops up). That's all I have to say on the matter.
  13. Snunch

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    Resttalk Dusclops' longevity is a mirage. With only Night Shade and Will-O-Wisp to work with, it is very easy to force Dusclops out (or just phaze it) while it is asleep. With no method of healing while asleep and no feasible way of waking up vs a good player, Dusclops is pretty much dead when it uses rest. Definitely inferior to the standard set.

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  14. Foxy Grandpa

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    Maybe mention that Dusclops is one of the few things that can actually take Heracross's hits?
  15. religiousjedi

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    All Heracross needs to do is switch on a predicted Toxic or Will-O-Wisp and its game over Dusclops.
  16. Delta 2777

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    QC Approved 3/3
  17. religiousjedi

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    Ready for GP Checks.
  18. New World Order

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    GP Approved (1/2)

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  19. Woodchuck

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    amateur grammar check completed

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    i've already implemented NWO's check so yeah (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Formerly the best ADV OU spinblocker, Dusclops fell from grace during Generation IV due to the addition of Dusknoir and the Rotom Appliances. Generation V brought about the addition of Eviolite, which allows Dusclops to perform defensive duties better than Dusknoir due to a 50% buff to its defenses. This item, two useful immunities, and Pressure allow Dusclops to absorb hits while distributing statuses such as burn and poison through Will-O-Wisp and Toxic, respectively. Coupled with the fact that the Rotom Appliances lost their Ghost typing with the generation shift, and Dusclops can now compete comfortably for the role of best spinblocker in UU.</p>

    <p>There are some disadvantages to using Eviolite,; it means Dusclops is without Leftovers recovery, forcing it to rely on less reliable forms of recovery, such as Pain Split or Rest, which can leave Dusclops in a tight spot if forced out. Unlike big brother Dusknoir, who has useable Base 100 Attack, Dusclops barely scratches opponents with its Base 70 Attack and Base 60 Special Attack, so it has to resort to set power moves like Night Shade or Seismic Toss to inflict any damage. To top it all off, entry hazards and status greatly ruin Dusclops's walling capabilities, so one must take care to avoid them. All in all, Dusclops remains the same as it was since it premiered in Generation III, and, even with some bumps along the road, the Ghost-type does justice to its walling and spinblocking duties.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Pain Split
    move 3: Toxic / Taunt
    move 4: Night Shade
    item: Evolite
    ability: Pressure
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to Eviolite, Dusclops becomes a near impenetrable wall that can inflict burn or poison status. The EV spread gives Dusclops 284/561/474 Defenses, which allows it to deal with the numerous amounts of physical attackers in the tier. Therefore, Will-O-Wisp is the preferred status move for Dusclops, as it can survive a good amount of hits from physical attackers and cripple them with a burn. For a secondary status move, Toxic compliments Dusclops's (despite what NWO says, you would actually use an 's' as you are referring to Dusclops in a singular sense) tanking ability against other walls, such as Milotic. With Night Shade on hand, Dusclops completely ignores the defense boost provided by Marvel Scale and wears down Milotic using Night Shade and Pain Split. Speaking of Night Shade, it is chosen over Seismic Toss to break through Mismagius's Substitutes and hit other Ghost-type Pokemon. As it stands, Most of Seismic Toss's primary targets, Normal-types, are crippled with Will-O-Wisp, and Chansey, the only exception, can easily heal off the damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If you have no problems dealing with Flash Fire Pokemon, who gain a boost to their Fire-type attacks when hit by Will-O-Wisp, Taunt can be used over Toxic to cripple shut down (Toxic cripples the walls but Taunt shuts them down) opposing walls. Another suggestion would be Seismic Toss can be used in place of Toxic. This gives, granting Dusclops perfect coverage while also minimizing the opposing Taunt's effectiveness of opposing Taunt users. This also ensures you don't get allows Dusclops to avoid being walled by Normal-types such as Ambipom and Snorlax. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD could can be used if you want a more balanced distribution is desired. This spread gives Dusclops better special defense at the cost of physical defense.</p>

    <p>Dusclops is susceptible to status and entry hazards, so Rapid Spin or and cleric support is are greatly welcomed. Xatu can reflect back entry hazards and any status moves aimed at Dusclops thanks to Magic Bounce. However, both share two of the same Dark and Ghost weaknesses, so if you prefer a spinner, Hitmontop is a better choice, as it can take taking unboosted Ghost-type attacks decently and resists the STAB of and subsequently scares off Dark-types. As for a cleric, Chansey compliments Dusclops's physically defensive capabilities by absorbing special hits. Chansey can also neutralize Ghost-type moves, and while Dusclops can block Fighting-type moves that threaten Chansey. Wish and Aromatherapy support also greatly benefit (add space) Dusclops. For offensive partners, Steel-types can soak up Dark-type and Ghost-type moves, then and hit back with their own STAB moves. Bisharp and Empoleon are good examples of this, with both setting up switching in easily against on either type.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Sleep Talk
    move 4: Night Shade
    item: Evolite
    ability: Pressure
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Rest and Sleep Talk have always been a great combination on any bulky Pokemon, and Dusclops is no exception. This set is great at absorbing allows Dusclops to absorb any status moves such as burn and poison, heals itself completely with Rest, and (add space) is able to do something back continue attacking during the turns of sleep thanks to Sleep Talk. Will-O-Wisp is chosen over Toxic because it hits a wider range of Pokemon and cripples physical attackers. Much like the previous set, Night Shade is chosen over Seismic Toss to combat Ghost-types who run Substitute, such as Mismagius with Substitute.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    You can go for Toxic over Will-O-Wisp, but only if you have other means of taking care of physical attackers. Note that there are two types immune to poison (Poison- and Steel-types) compared to one type being immune to burns (Fire-types). Unlike the previous set, this Dusclops doesn't mind entry hazards as much, since it can heal up status and damage with Rest. However, Fire-types, particularly those with Flash Fire, such as Arcanine and Houndoom, are much more dangerous thanks to the unreliability of Sleep Talk. Therefore, bulky Water-types, such as Milotic, make excellent partners, scaring away both Fire-types with STAB Scald. Chansey is a much better stronger counter to this set, as it does not care about Will-O-Wisp and is immune to Night Shade. Fighting-types such as Heracross and Hitmontop can scare away the bloated blob; Dusclops does attract status inflicting moves, so switching in Heracross on the predicted Toxic from Chansey is beneficial. A Chansey of your own can provides Aromatherapy support should Dusclops be forced to switch out while asleep.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Toxic stall may be viable with Protect, but Milotic pulls it off better thanks to Recover. Confuse Ray can be used to potentially cause switch outs switches or to punishing those who risk (and fail) to discourage attacks. Trick Room is an option and Dusclops can repeatedly (add space) set it up due to its great defenses. However, it can't inflict meaningful damage and must constantly switches out to a Pokemon that can make effective use of Trick Room. Gravity is an okay support option; however, Dusknoir performs such duties better, as it has higher attack with which to take advantage of DynamicPunch and Earthquake. In addition, it Gravity Dusclops suffers the same switching problem Trick Room Dusclops faces in that it itself is unable to make much use of Gravity.</p>

    <p>Dusclops has a lot of physical moves such as Earthquake and the elemental punches, but its low attack stat makes them unfavorable. Dusknoir makes much better use of these moves, regardless. Torment and Disable is an extremely annoying combination, but Dusclops is too slow to effectively pull it off though. Memento can be used to help set up a teammate, although Dusclops is also too slow for that, too. It Memento is also a waste of Dusclops's defensive capabilities. Seismic Toss can hit Normal-types, but most of them have too much HP or are burned into uselessness anyway. Dusclops has access to powerful specially based moves, such as Shadow Ball and Ice Beam, and can make use of them with Calm Mind. However, the poor The damage output, even after two boosts, makes it an unattractive option, even after two boosts, though.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Given Dusclops' lack of speed, anything with Substitute and a setup move can set itself up for a sweep. Normal-type sweepers are best, since they are immune to Night Shade and Seismic Toss is rarely seen on Dusclops this generation. Chansey wins one-on-one confrontations, since it can outstall most variants with Toxic and Softboiled or Wish. If it gets inflicted with a burn or poison, it simply needs to switch out to cure status or use Aromatherapy. Xatu is immune from non-damaging status-only inflicting moves thanks to Magic Bounce and is able to outstall Dusclops with a combination of Night Shade and Roost. Hard hitters, such as Victini and Nidoking, are immune to burn and poison, respectively, and possess enough power to 2HKO Dusclops. Houndoom and Arcanine are immune to Will-O-Wisp and will enjoy the Flash Fire boost. In particular, Houndoom with Nasty Plot is especially deadly after the Flash Fire boost. Taunt users also screw Dusclops (add space) as most versions Dusclops only carry one attacking move.</p>
  20. -Tsunami-

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  21. religiousjedi

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    Cyclops is finally done.
  22. Oglemi

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