NOC Fallout New Vegas NOC [GAME OVER - Wastelanders Win]

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sunny004 said:
Alright.

There are two reasons why I haven't been contributing.

1) I had a huge exam today, and have really been studying for that more than looking at the thread.

2) This is my first NOC game and to me lynching based off of circumstantial evidence seems like a big no-no to me. I'm honestly not going to contribute until votes come onto a someone, at which point I'll read everyone's posts and pitch in my 2 cents.

I will probably be posting what I think about everyone soon (I'll be done by the end of D1/Beginning of D2)

So yea
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There will never be anything but circumstantial evidence (unless we get lucky which we probably won't) so you need to get used to it. Why wait to contribute when you can save yourself the time and do it now??
 
Lol @ how SUDDENLY everyone and their mother suspects me.

Haunted Diamond clearly implied he was a power role. If Haunted Diamond is telling the truth, the mafia will either block or kill him anyway, so no reason not to.

If he is lying and is mafia and doesn't clarify the power role, he can reconcile with his scum team today/tonight to come up with the best thing to claim and how they can best utilize it.

So yes he should claim.

My two would be:
Fatecrashers
Celever

Von I would like to know where I suddenly became one of your top two to lynch after you agreed with and liked my tl:dr recap post?
 
Spiffy, I'm fairly sure the only significant contributors I haven't said much on are you and Von, and that's because I felt like you would play similarly as either alignment at first so I wasn't sure how to read you and honestly I couldn't be bothered to read Von's longer posts.

The HauntedDiamond wagon bugs me because while the points were okay, it feels like the wagon evolved way too quickly, with pretty much four votes within 10 posts of Spiffy's case, with the majority of them just saying "I agree" or nothing at all.

Lightwolf probably doesn't need to answer that question anymore because he's a bit clearer about his reads on Page 16 and I'm less bothered about him as a whole.

Spiffy's rolefish actually bugs me a lot because there's no reason for him to call Haunted Diamond out on it. If he's mafia, then it doesn't matter to the village what he claims or not on a technical level, but if he's a doctor or something like that then you've just told the mafia the guy they 100% need to nightkill or hook. Even if he crumbed that he has a role keeping the mafia in the dark on what it is still makes it harder for them to plan around it. I also feel like he's just kind of just there attacking basically everything he sees, which can be effective earlygame but I dunno. It feels like he's being way too flexible and giving himself an easy opportunity to push almost anyone he wants.

I still feel similarly about Haunted Diamond. From what I can tell of his Lightwolf suspicion, it comes from him distrusting Spiffy and pushing on him, but he doesn't actually try to deconstruct the reasons for why Lightwolf voted him? He just says that he could be opportunistic mafia who is trying to push a mislynch on him, but doesn't say why this is more likely then a town!Lightwolf pushing him. Would still lynch here.
 
Cancerous

I'll be around when deadline comes for what it's worth.

As I've already said, me voting quickly for Haunted Diamond was a kneejerk reaction. If they suspect us both of being mafia and I know I'm not mafia, then surely Haunted must be mafia, how easy! But then after I thought about it, if you remove the scumbuddy link between me and Haunted then the evidence against him isn't so strong, that plus the fact that he's threatening to somehow reveal his village power role makes me inclined not to vote for him now.
 
Please tell me what benefit the village has about knowing that Haunted Shadow is a power role but not knowing which one he is.

Please tell me how we stifle the mafia if he doesn't say what power role he is.
 
My guess is that people find that it's not in the village's interest to call attention to what people's roles are unless they are on the verge on being lynched which was not the case.

I personally don't think your offense was that egregious but that's probably an unpopular jalmont opinion.
 
Serious Bananas said:
Spiffy's rolefish actually bugs me a lot because there's no reason for him to call Haunted Diamond out on it. If he's mafia, then it doesn't matter to the village what he claims or not on a technical level, but if he's a doctor or something like that then you've just told the mafia the guy they 100% need to nightkill or hook. Even if he crumbed that he has a role keeping the mafia in the dark on what it is still makes it harder for them to plan around it.
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Please tell me that you read my post.
 
Spiffy said:
Lol @ how SUDDENLY everyone and their mother suspects me.

Haunted Diamond clearly implied he was a power role. If Haunted Diamond is telling the truth, the mafia will either block or kill him anyway, so no reason not to.

If he is lying and is mafia and doesn't clarify the power role, he can reconcile with his scum team today/tonight to come up with the best thing to claim and how they can best utilize it.

So yes he should claim.

My two would be:
Fatecrashers
Celever

Von I would like to know where I suddenly became one of your top two to lynch after you agreed with and liked my tl:dr recap post?
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Well it's not sudden for me :p. LightWolf has suspected you for a while, and I've made it clear that I do too. You had a strong start, but one good post can't save you, and the blatant rolefish isn't even subtle. Saying that "there is no reason not to because he hinted at a power role" is also dumb. Maybe he was bluffing as a vanilla because he knew that he would be lynched immediately if he were to claim his real role? Power Roles also differ. A Power Role is anything from a mayor to a vigilante to an inspector. It's so wide a statement that it's not like now that Haunted has hinted at being a Power Role we know exactly what he is now. The mafia benefit way more from finding out what the role is than we do. If it's a mayor they're probably not gonna kill him. If it's a doctor they are, and that's basically a fact. Think about it for a second Spiffy, this either seems like tunneling or just general stupidity, which isn't a great town strategy!

So yes, you're a suspect. Trying to lead the village in NOC (a term which you claimed to have never heard of before and to be unfamiliar with, even though I even posted an EXAMPLE earlier than your statement in the thread (Aura_Guardian in TP NOC if you don't remember)) is scummy enough already. You started tunneling me (admitting it doesn't make it better) to try and push a lynch because, and this is just a theory but it's backed up by experiences, I'm a "weaker" player. You then started tunneling Haunted. All the while you made it a point to keep your options open and your vote flexible, which is even worse. You set it up so that you don't take a huge amount of liability for any lynch, because if I'd been lynched as a consequence of your tunelling earlier you would have said "I was just giving opinions on the game in general!" since you didn't admit to your tunelling, despite my calling you out on it previously, until it actually benefited you. Serious Bananas mentioned this while I was posting: you're just attacking everything that moves. This is another thing I mean by you not wanting to take responsibility for any lynches that happen, so you're trying to make it so that they're not happening at all. You're also contributing just for the sake of it, which I mentioned earlier. You're trying to seem too town by giving reads on every player in the game and, again, attacking everything that moves. Your play doesn't seem to have the town's best interest's at mind, it seems to be trying to create the illusion that it does. This is why I will Unvote and Lynch Spiffy.
 
I didn't say anything about it before but the concept of "leading the village" in a NOC game doesn't really make sense and I don't think it's a term that widely used so I don't really think you can count not knowing what that means as indicative of being mafia.
 
Jalmont said:
I didn't say anything about it before but the concept of "leading the village" in a NOC game doesn't really make sense and I don't think it's a term that widely used so I don't really think you can count not knowing what that means as indicative of being mafia.
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I'm sure he knew what it meant. He was just pretending not to know because you can't indict someone of something when they don't know what it is, right?
 
First things first. Unvote. HD's argument makes sense.

Anyway, my vote preferences.
Spiffy - Tunnelling extremely hard, rolefishing, SB and Celever beat me to the punch on the explanation (the one time I have a real reason that I'm 100% confident in. damn)

I'm extremely unsure of my second one... umm... I got nothing. I'm not the best with reads, but Spiffy's play just really irks me for the reasons above.

Lynch Spiffy
 
Spiffy If you're stalling to reply hoping for me to go to bed like last night, fortunately I don't have any class tomorrow morning so i will be staying up for quite a while.

My top priority is buttered toast now. Him "doubting the arguments against me" but "being ok with lynching HD" is totally weird to me.
As for the second one, it's probably Cancerous.

if i had to mention a third it would be spiffy. His playstyle doesn't quite read like mafia to me, because if he was mafia he wouldn't have been so keen on lynching me when he knew i was gonna turn out town. My guess is he's the courier (the third person), or maybe he's just a mafia that's abusing a bunch of inactive and indifferent townies.
 
Haunted Diamond said:
His playstyle doesn't quite read like mafia to me, because if he was mafia he wouldn't have been so keen on lynching me when he knew i was gonna turn out town. My guess is he's the courier (the third person), or maybe he's just a mafia that's abusing a bunch of inactive and indifferent townies.
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Huh, interesting. Could you expand a little more please? I don't really see how a courier would be any more interested in pushing lynches than a mafia, since both of the wincons would presumably be to survive. It also doesn't make a huge amount of sense, because it means that you think only town-aligned players start and push for lynches.
 
Haunted Diamond said:
if i had to mention a third it would be spiffy. His playstyle doesn't quite read like mafia to me, because if he was mafia he wouldn't have been so keen on lynching me when he knew i was gonna turn out town.
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um if spiffy lynched you and you turned out villager it doesn't mean everyone will instantly vote spiffy for mafia, he could easily say oops my bad, reiterate why you were suspicious, and put reasonable doubt in people's heads. if your logic held up then no mafia would push for a villager lynch ever and that's clearly not true
 
Well i kinda assumed that this courier must be a weird role that gets the win condition with things like start the vote on 3 people.
I will wait for his and buttered toast reply and then i will make a well thought post about who i suspect.
 
Honestly I don't see how I am being suspicious. I literally outlined all of my reasoning and I have pointed out my thoughts on everyone's pros and cons. I have tried to play an honest and open game and to say things I have thought at the time I thought them. HD, if you think that it's suspicious that I was okay voting for you, look through my list. I have reasons why I don't want to vote for everyone. Legitimate, thought out reasons. There are no massive reads to me. There is no major pieces of information. There is no info or rolls or leadership or anything to go by.

If it makes me suspicious for saying my thoughts for why I am uneasy voting for anyone I don't know what to really do. No one is a locked vote and based on the evidence presented on you by spiffy, it's the most substantial to me that is supported by the group. Yeah, I think Jalmont and Lightwolf look a little more suspicious to me. And I already said my peace with that and it's not supported. So if I vote for them it's like voting for an independent and wasting my vote. And it's not like they are locks to be mafia either because there are reasonable explanations for each of their actions just like you and EVERYONE ELSE.

Seriously. I see spiffy's argument and it makes sense. I also see your defense and it makes sense to be. But I also see how you would possibly use a reasonable excuse such as a time change or school to rationalize not contributing. So while it makes sense and is reasonable, it doesn't put you in the clear. And I still feel that your information is the most solid out of the group of vote candidates we have.

Anyone else, I would and have done the exact same thing. Read my post on candidates. Light Wolf's is the least constructed but I was throwing that out as an alternative choice that I'm thinking about and seeing if people agree that he's acting in a way to induce paranoia and question people who make good points. But literally I have treated everyone the same way as I have treated you the whole game.

Don't really know how to defend myself any better nor do I really understand the suspicions on me. Just trying to be involved and to share my opinions.
 
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