Hey everyone sorry for the (extremely long) delay, here is finally the second Smogon Doubles Player of the week! This project is for newer people to be more acquainted with some of the most knowledgeable players of Doubles.
Featured Player: Packet
Favorite Pokemon: Slaking
Most Known for: creating the doubles leaderboard, always being away on IRC
Signature Pokemon: Deoxys-A
For the second week, I am interviewing Pocket! Pocket has been around Smogon since the first month it was formed, and thus an old-timer when it comes to Pokemon. He's the co-leader and co-founder of the doubles tier along with Joim, and sports a nice banner with Heatran on it. He also is currently on the Cryonicles team in SPL!
Tell me a little about yourself:
When I was 9 years old, I saw my classmates playing Red/Blue, and I was hooked. It was like a boy's dream come true, since I was into kaijuus / Godzilla esque monsters, but Pokemon were more lovable in design (but also not too dumb-looking like neopets/tamagotchi). I never played a Pokemon game until I was in middle school (japanese silver was my first game). Soon after my family got a computer, and I would browse through GameFAQs and IGN to learn more about Pokemon. I soon encountered the wonders of online gaming, where I started playing on Netbattle and IRCbots. I was a member of NB's forum tvsian.com (iirc) for awhile, but then I heard chaos was creating a new website called Smogon. Back then, Smogon was a small, perhaps cliquey, forum of avid teenagers; since then Smogon has EXPLODED in population, maturity, and skillset, and it's just really amazing to see how Smogon flourished over the past few years, thanks to the dedicated members here. I think what makes Smogon so successful is that it takes the game we love very seriously, so we in turn take Smogon seriously >:D
Why did you want to start this meta? What was the first team you made? What users were you glad to have met in the process of creating this tier?
I always thought Doubles was an interesting format in Pokemon. I read a guide on Doubles back when Netabattle was around, and every time somebody challed me to play Doubles (expecting to get a free win from an unsuspecting singles player) I would whip out my Doubles team and whoop their sorry ass!!! This was back in ADV btw, but I still remember the team - QuakeSlide Flygon, TWave Jolteon, mixed Gengar with Hypnosis, Helping Hand Umbreon, Wisp / Haze / Explosion Weezing, and Counter Water Absorb Quagsire (I think I had a Houndoom somewhere, too). Explosion spam and Rain Dance / Sunny Day teams were the ones that required special attention back then.
The increased awareness of VGC in Smogon and the emigration of VGCers to NB served as an impetus for me to propose fostering our Doubles metagame and knowledge. There was essentially no place on Smogon to openly discuss about Doubles tactics. I felt this was a shame, since doubles is an established format with a large history and backing from Pokemon players around the world. I initially wanted to borrow the ruleset of VGC to make this format accessible to more users, seeing how VGC is the major doubles format played worldwide. However, people on Smogon persuaded me that having our custom Doubles metagame with its own ruleset and banlist was more appealing to them, so I went with that. Initially, there was not enough interest for me to feel comfortable starting this new meta. However, with the push from NixHex, I got it started ~half a year later. I am happy with this decision, because I met a lot of great friends like Audiosurfer, Nollan, Laga, Pwnemon, and Mizuhime, who were just as passionate about this tier as me. Without the enthusiasm and talent from such friends this metagame would not have survived its infancy and continue to mature now. Of course I owe a large thanks to my co-leader Joim, who has facilitated the officialization of XY Doubles, and has since been Doubles's resident programmer, administrator, and competitor :]. Shoutout under hide tags to all my Doubles friends, who has strengthened the Doubles community:
I must also thank blarajan (literally the best Indian EVAR) and all the managers (tennisace, BKC, yondie, Nachos, McMeghan, Oglemi) who has supported the inclusion of Doubles into SPL.
What are some of your favorite elements of the Doubles metagame?
I enjoy the added dimension Doubles brings into a Pokemon game by having another partner and an extra opponent on the field. Moves are now classified as single-target moves or spread moves, giving many moves distinct identities and niches that are absent in singles play. For instance, you will never have a reason to use Heat Wave or Muddy Water over Fire Blast or Hydro Pump in singles, but in doubles the former moves allow you to hit both opposing targets at once.
Then there are moves like Skill Swap, Helping Hand, and Follow Me that affects your partner, as well as other moves that you will never see play in singles (Quick Guard, Wide Guard, Feint). Certain abilities, such as Intimidate, Lightning Rod, Telepathy, and Aroma Veil have additional or enhanced effect in doubles play. Niche strategies in singles, such as Trick Room and Tailwind are actually a dominant strategies in Doubles, since you dont need to spend a turn switching out your TR/TW setter for a TR/TW sweeper. I feel like I get to use all the goodies Pokemon has to offer through the doubles format. Doubles encourages unique Pokemon niches and playstyles that are either non-existent or recessive in singles play, resulting in a diverse and enjoyable metagame.
What is one thing about the current rules (banlist, metagame structure) that you would want to change?
The beauty of Doubles is that it's a naturally balanced metagame. I am perfectly okay with the current rulesets and banlist. I am indifferent when it comes to Sleep Clause, although I do feel it's an unnecessary restriction. It would be interesting to see if removing Mega Kangaskhan would diversify the mega demographics observed in Doubles, but I don't actually believe Kangaskhan is detrimental to the health of this metagame.
What are some Doubles players you think are good examples for newer users to look up to?
Nollan and Laga are both prolific and innovative battlers, and they are both currently on top of their game. These are the type of players who would influence the trends we see in the Doubles's competition. They are both very particular with their teambuilds and EVs, so you can learn a lot from them.
Of course you can learn a ton from seasoned VGC players, such as Zach (Braverius), Biosci, kingofmars, makiri, and Randy (R Inanimate).
What do you think is the most successful Pokemon, core, and strategy in the current meta?
Follow Me / Rage Powder users (Togekiss, Jirachi, Amoonguss) are very potent in Doubles. It's not surprising to see at least one of them in every other competitive matches. The fate of a game are often determined by how efficiently one eliminates the opponent's Follow Me Pokemon.
I also think Blizzard from Abomasnow and Pixilate Hyper Voice are very underprepared spread moves that can demolish standard teams with minimal support (ie Trick Room).
Can you give some advice to new doubles players?
Just like singles, always consider offensive and defensive synergy when building your teams. For instance, don't pack multiple Pokemons walled by Heatran or Amoonguss, but make sure that you create offensive pairs that can break each other's counters (ie Moldbreaker Excadrill + Talonflame together boast a powerful Ground + Flying offensive combination that nails each other's counters for lethal damage). Make sure you have at least 2 Pokemon that can tank powerful or common spread moves (Heat Wave, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Blizzard, Pixilate Hyper Voice, Rain-boosted Muddy Water). Adding any one or more elements of Intimidate, Fake Out, and/or Follow Me/Rage Powder would help facilitate your gameplan.
Above all, join #doubles to challenge players and discuss about the metagame. Through interacting with the Doubles community on irc and through this forum, you will quickly learn the effective cores and sets of Doubles, which would ease your teambuilding process and enhance your battling experience.
What strategies do you dislike playing against?
Perish Trap teams. They are more team match-up reliant than other Doubles teams, but it is very difficult to beat if you happen to bring a susceptible team. You would have to make plays early game in order to prevent Perish Trap teams to totally take control of the game.
Can you provide a sample team with explanation on how to use for new players?:
My revamped Deoxys-A team >:] Kangaskhan pairs well to form a lot of effective pairs in this team:
This team struggles a bit versus Trick Room, but between Fake Out, Rage Powder, Sucker Punch, and Protect, it does have the tools to overcome it.
Editor's note:
So, that was the second featured doubles player, Packet! Tune in next week to learn more about prominent doubles players, and feel free to PM me about who you think should be the next future player. That's all, and remember to keep playing doubles! :]
Featured Player: Packet
Favorite Pokemon: Slaking
Most Known for: creating the doubles leaderboard, always being away on IRC
Signature Pokemon: Deoxys-A
For the second week, I am interviewing Pocket! Pocket has been around Smogon since the first month it was formed, and thus an old-timer when it comes to Pokemon. He's the co-leader and co-founder of the doubles tier along with Joim, and sports a nice banner with Heatran on it. He also is currently on the Cryonicles team in SPL!
Tell me a little about yourself:
When I was 9 years old, I saw my classmates playing Red/Blue, and I was hooked. It was like a boy's dream come true, since I was into kaijuus / Godzilla esque monsters, but Pokemon were more lovable in design (but also not too dumb-looking like neopets/tamagotchi). I never played a Pokemon game until I was in middle school (japanese silver was my first game). Soon after my family got a computer, and I would browse through GameFAQs and IGN to learn more about Pokemon. I soon encountered the wonders of online gaming, where I started playing on Netbattle and IRCbots. I was a member of NB's forum tvsian.com (iirc) for awhile, but then I heard chaos was creating a new website called Smogon. Back then, Smogon was a small, perhaps cliquey, forum of avid teenagers; since then Smogon has EXPLODED in population, maturity, and skillset, and it's just really amazing to see how Smogon flourished over the past few years, thanks to the dedicated members here. I think what makes Smogon so successful is that it takes the game we love very seriously, so we in turn take Smogon seriously >:D
Why did you want to start this meta? What was the first team you made? What users were you glad to have met in the process of creating this tier?
I always thought Doubles was an interesting format in Pokemon. I read a guide on Doubles back when Netabattle was around, and every time somebody challed me to play Doubles (expecting to get a free win from an unsuspecting singles player) I would whip out my Doubles team and whoop their sorry ass!!! This was back in ADV btw, but I still remember the team - QuakeSlide Flygon, TWave Jolteon, mixed Gengar with Hypnosis, Helping Hand Umbreon, Wisp / Haze / Explosion Weezing, and Counter Water Absorb Quagsire (I think I had a Houndoom somewhere, too). Explosion spam and Rain Dance / Sunny Day teams were the ones that required special attention back then.
The increased awareness of VGC in Smogon and the emigration of VGCers to NB served as an impetus for me to propose fostering our Doubles metagame and knowledge. There was essentially no place on Smogon to openly discuss about Doubles tactics. I felt this was a shame, since doubles is an established format with a large history and backing from Pokemon players around the world. I initially wanted to borrow the ruleset of VGC to make this format accessible to more users, seeing how VGC is the major doubles format played worldwide. However, people on Smogon persuaded me that having our custom Doubles metagame with its own ruleset and banlist was more appealing to them, so I went with that. Initially, there was not enough interest for me to feel comfortable starting this new meta. However, with the push from NixHex, I got it started ~half a year later. I am happy with this decision, because I met a lot of great friends like Audiosurfer, Nollan, Laga, Pwnemon, and Mizuhime, who were just as passionate about this tier as me. Without the enthusiasm and talent from such friends this metagame would not have survived its infancy and continue to mature now. Of course I owe a large thanks to my co-leader Joim, who has facilitated the officialization of XY Doubles, and has since been Doubles's resident programmer, administrator, and competitor :]. Shoutout under hide tags to all my Doubles friends, who has strengthened the Doubles community:
- -Tsunami-
- Arcticblast
- Ash Borer
- Audiosurfer
- AuraRayquaza
- Braverius
- Biosci
- BlankZero
- BLINGAS
- BLOOD TOTEM
- Bummer
- Cease Tick
- D-Quag
- Darkmalice
- dcae
- DTC
- Electrolyte
- finally
- Haruno
- Icecream
- jas61292
- Joim
- kingofmars
- Laga
- Lasagne
- Level 51
- Lolkomori
- lucariojr
- makiri
- Mizuhime
- NixHex
- Nollan
- nyttyn
- Robert Alfons
- Pwnemon
- srk1214
- StarmanXL
- tenchi17
- The Leprechaun
- Ultimathunder
- voodoo pimp
- Yilx
- youngjake93
- Zarel
I must also thank blarajan (literally the best Indian EVAR) and all the managers (tennisace, BKC, yondie, Nachos, McMeghan, Oglemi) who has supported the inclusion of Doubles into SPL.
What are some of your favorite elements of the Doubles metagame?
I enjoy the added dimension Doubles brings into a Pokemon game by having another partner and an extra opponent on the field. Moves are now classified as single-target moves or spread moves, giving many moves distinct identities and niches that are absent in singles play. For instance, you will never have a reason to use Heat Wave or Muddy Water over Fire Blast or Hydro Pump in singles, but in doubles the former moves allow you to hit both opposing targets at once.
Then there are moves like Skill Swap, Helping Hand, and Follow Me that affects your partner, as well as other moves that you will never see play in singles (Quick Guard, Wide Guard, Feint). Certain abilities, such as Intimidate, Lightning Rod, Telepathy, and Aroma Veil have additional or enhanced effect in doubles play. Niche strategies in singles, such as Trick Room and Tailwind are actually a dominant strategies in Doubles, since you dont need to spend a turn switching out your TR/TW setter for a TR/TW sweeper. I feel like I get to use all the goodies Pokemon has to offer through the doubles format. Doubles encourages unique Pokemon niches and playstyles that are either non-existent or recessive in singles play, resulting in a diverse and enjoyable metagame.
What is one thing about the current rules (banlist, metagame structure) that you would want to change?
The beauty of Doubles is that it's a naturally balanced metagame. I am perfectly okay with the current rulesets and banlist. I am indifferent when it comes to Sleep Clause, although I do feel it's an unnecessary restriction. It would be interesting to see if removing Mega Kangaskhan would diversify the mega demographics observed in Doubles, but I don't actually believe Kangaskhan is detrimental to the health of this metagame.
What are some Doubles players you think are good examples for newer users to look up to?
Nollan and Laga are both prolific and innovative battlers, and they are both currently on top of their game. These are the type of players who would influence the trends we see in the Doubles's competition. They are both very particular with their teambuilds and EVs, so you can learn a lot from them.
Of course you can learn a ton from seasoned VGC players, such as Zach (Braverius), Biosci, kingofmars, makiri, and Randy (R Inanimate).
What do you think is the most successful Pokemon, core, and strategy in the current meta?
Follow Me / Rage Powder users (Togekiss, Jirachi, Amoonguss) are very potent in Doubles. It's not surprising to see at least one of them in every other competitive matches. The fate of a game are often determined by how efficiently one eliminates the opponent's Follow Me Pokemon.
I also think Blizzard from Abomasnow and Pixilate Hyper Voice are very underprepared spread moves that can demolish standard teams with minimal support (ie Trick Room).
Can you give some advice to new doubles players?
Just like singles, always consider offensive and defensive synergy when building your teams. For instance, don't pack multiple Pokemons walled by Heatran or Amoonguss, but make sure that you create offensive pairs that can break each other's counters (ie Moldbreaker Excadrill + Talonflame together boast a powerful Ground + Flying offensive combination that nails each other's counters for lethal damage). Make sure you have at least 2 Pokemon that can tank powerful or common spread moves (Heat Wave, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Blizzard, Pixilate Hyper Voice, Rain-boosted Muddy Water). Adding any one or more elements of Intimidate, Fake Out, and/or Follow Me/Rage Powder would help facilitate your gameplan.
Above all, join #doubles to challenge players and discuss about the metagame. Through interacting with the Doubles community on irc and through this forum, you will quickly learn the effective cores and sets of Doubles, which would ease your teambuilding process and enhance your battling experience.
What strategies do you dislike playing against?
Perish Trap teams. They are more team match-up reliant than other Doubles teams, but it is very difficult to beat if you happen to bring a susceptible team. You would have to make plays early game in order to prevent Perish Trap teams to totally take control of the game.
Can you provide a sample team with explanation on how to use for new players?:
Volcarona @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 176 HP / 176 SAtk / 48 SDef / 108 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Bug Buzz
- Rage Powder
- Protect
Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SAtk / 236 Spd
Rash Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Detect
Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 136 SAtk / 124 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder Wave
- Protect
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch
Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Protect
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 176 HP / 176 SAtk / 48 SDef / 108 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Bug Buzz
- Rage Powder
- Protect
Deoxys-Attack @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 20 Atk / 252 SAtk / 236 Spd
Rash Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Detect
Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 136 SAtk / 124 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder Wave
- Protect
Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch
Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Protect
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Kangaskhan + Deoxys-A: Kangaskhan shuts down one mon with Fake Out, while Deoxys-A demolishes the other. Works best late-game when their answers to Deoxys-A has been depleted, but it can be used as a lead to apply immediate offensive pressure.
- Kangaskhan + Volcarona: Volcarona offers some useful Fire STAB offense to roast Steel-types that trouble Kangaskhan. With Rage Powder it also allow Kangashan to safely boost up with PuP and threaten the opponent with +2 offense.
- Kangaskhan + Bisharp: Intimidate mons are put into a delimma - they want to switch into Kangaskhan and nerf its Attack, but Bisharp will fuck them up with an Attack boost.
- Latios/Rotom-W + Volcarona: Latios enjoys Vocarona melting Steel-types and Rotom-W enjoys Volcarona burning Grass-types. Latios also supports Volcarona by eliminating Terrakion, Heatran, as well as dealing a heavy blow to Water- and other Fire-types. Rotom-W benefits Volcarona by crippling Water-, Ground-, and Fire-types.
- Deoxys-A + Volcarona: Deoxys-A benefits from Volcarona's Rage Powder support, and its fiery offense to dispose Steel-types. Cresselia is also a big thorn on Deoxys-A's side, which Volcarona can beat with Bug Buzz. Deoxys-A in turn can eliminate problematic Rock-, Ground- and Fire-types with its super powerful Psycho Boost (Garchomp, Landorus-T, Charizard Y, Chandelure, Terrakion) or Superpower (Tyranitar, Heatran).
This team struggles a bit versus Trick Room, but between Fake Out, Rage Powder, Sucker Punch, and Protect, it does have the tools to overcome it.
Editor's note:
So, that was the second featured doubles player, Packet! Tune in next week to learn more about prominent doubles players, and feel free to PM me about who you think should be the next future player. That's all, and remember to keep playing doubles! :]
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