Ferrothorn [2/3] - writing

ryo yamada2001

ryo yamada2001
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[OVERVIEW]

- Adds a lot of defensive value to a team with an unique Grass / Steel typing, high mixed bulk, and an Iron Barbs ability to scare off many common physical attackers such as Mega Kangaskhan and Azumarill with its ability while also threatening Rotom-W, Mega Diancie, and Latios with its typing.
- Also has two powerful STAB attacks in Power Whip and Gyro Ball which combined with a decent Attack stat threatens a lot of Pokemon.
- Low base speed allows Ferrothorn to do well against Trick Room teams, power up Gyro Ball, and make it potentially good on Trick Room with powerful STAB attacks.
- Has a few supportive moves in Leech Seed and Thunder Wave which can slowly whittle down opponents and annoy them while also dealing damage with STAB attacks.
- Due to its inability to deal significant damage to opposing Steel- and Fire-types with its STAB attacks, it is Substitute bait for Heatran and Aegislash.
- Despite having many useful resistances due to its typing, it has a glaring 4x weakness to Fire-type attacks, which makes it easily forced out by Fire-types such as Heatran and Infernape. Ferrothorn needs a lot of team support to be able to deal with Heatran, Substitute variants especially..

[SET]
Name: Tank
move 1: Power Whip
move 2: Gyro Ball / Thunder Wave
move 3: Leech Seed
move 4: Protect
item: Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
ability: Iron Barbs
nature: Brave
evs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 80 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
=======

- Power Whip is a powerful STAB attack that threatens Water-types such as Rotom-W and Keldeo.
- Gyro Ball is Ferrothorns second STAB attack, which deals a lot of damage to Fairy- and Ice-types such as Diancie, Gardevoir, and Kyurem-B, but also deals a lot of damage to fast frail opponents such as Latios and Gengar.
- Thunder Wave can be used to cripple threats such as Mega Kangaskhan, Hydreigon, and Latios by lowering their speed and allowing your partners to deal with them more easily. However, it should not be used together with Thunder Wave as Gyro Ball does more damage depending on how much faster the opponent is than Ferrothorn.
- Leech Seed can slowly whittle down opponents that have trouble harming Ferrothorn, such as Mega Kangaskhan and Suicune. It also allows Ferrothorn to recover, which allows it to spread its utility more easily, but also to function as a decent win-con when there are no checks left.
- im gonna put the protect thing in the write up eventually
ferrothorn isnt weak to speed control, so when talking about protect, mention that it is primarily used to have a turn for an ally take out an opponent threatening to ferrothorn

Set Details
=======

- Leftovers makes it tough to break down Ferrothorn in combination with Leech Seed and Protect, which makes Ferrothorn recover a lot which is annoying to deal with due to its bulk and ability to fully paralyze the foe with Thunder Wave.
- Rocky Helmet allows Ferrothorn to switch in to most contact moves, primarily Returns and Fake Outs from Mega Kangaskhan.
- 252 HP and 80 Def guarantees Ferrothorn can survive Virizion's Close Combat or two Breloom Mach Punches, even if using Rocky Helmet.
- The rest is put in Attack with a Brave Nature for more offensive presence, most notably OHKOing Choice Scarf Kyurem-B.
- A negative Speed nature together with 0 Speed IVs increases Gyro Ball damage and make it have a better matchup against Trick Room.

Usage Tips
=======

- Ferrothorn can easily switch into physical attacks from Mega Kangaskhan due to its Iron Barbs ability, which in combination with Rocky Helmet damages Mega Kangaskhan quite a lot.
- Ferrothorn is a strong Trick Room check, as it can easily stall out Trick Room with Leech Seed and Protect, while also checking common attackers such as Sylveon and Mega Abomasnow.
- Ferrothorn has an easy time switching into many attacks and thus can work as a strong pivot.
- Ferrothorn works best in the late-game, once all opposing Fire-types have been KOd, where it can Leech Seed easily on foes that have trouble harming them, such as Suicune, allowing Ferrothorn to recover a significant amount every turn, especially when using Leftovers.
- Ferrothorn excels in switching in to physical attacks, such as Mega Kangaskhan's Return. Especially combined with Rocky Helmet, Ferrothorn can be very difficult to check without dealing a lot of recoil back.
- Ferrothorn also easily switches in to special attacks it resists, such as Hydro Pump and Hyper Voice, due to its immense HP and Special Defense.
- Leech Seed on a predicted switch, so scouting the next turn is more effective with the Leech Seed recovery.
- Due to its defensive playstyler, Ferrothorn is most commonly found on teams that prefer defensive synergy over offense. Because of this, it is uncommon to see Ferrothorn on (hyper-)offensive teams.

Team Options
=======

- Pokemon that have trouble against Water-types such as Mega Diancie appreciate Ferrothorn's ability to beat Water-types with Power Whip.
- Heatran is a good switch-in to Fire-type attacks with Flash Fire. Other Fire-types such as Volcanion and Water-types such as Rotom-W and Keldeo can switch in to Fire-type attacks as well, which would normally be threatening to Ferrothorn.
- Politoed also switches in to Fire-type attacks severly weakens Fire-type attacks by setting rain, removing Ferrothorn's main weakness.
- Fire-types such as Heatran and Volcanion can beat opposing Steel-types which Ferrothorn struggles to beat with its STABs. Fighting-types such as Keldeo and Terrakion do this as well, and Landorus-T can use its powerful Earthquake to beat them as well.
- These Fire-types also appreciate Ferrothorn's ability to easily beat Rain, which reduces damage from these Fire-types STAB attacks.
- Spread attackers such as Mega Diancie, Mega Gardevoir, and Volcarona are great partners as Iron Barbs and Leech Seed chip damage can put the foe in KO range.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

- Stealth Rock can chip Fire-types such as Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame, but also chip common U-turn and Volt Switch users such as Landorus-T and Rotom-W by making them switch out all the time.
- Ferrothorn can also use Lum Berry to remove a status move once, such as Will-O-Wisp which cripples Ferrothorn by cutting its attack and negates Leech Seed recovery.
- Chople Berry can be used to mitigate a Fighting-type attack once, and attack in return. Most common Fighting-types are weak to its STAB attacks.
- Knock Off can hit Psychic-types effectively and annoy the foe by knocking off an important item.
- Explosion can be used as a catch-all, as there is very little that switches in on it.

Checks and Counters
==============

**Fire-type Pokemon**: Fire-type Pokemon such as Mega Charizard Y and Heatran can easily OHKO Ferrothorn with their Fire STABs while Ferrothorn has no ways of dealing significant damage back. Heatran can easily set up Substitutes, avoiding Leech Seed. Due to this weakness to Fire-typ attacks, Pokemon which tend to carry Fire-type moves such as Hydreigon and Salamence are threatening as well.

**Fighting-type Pokemon**: Fighting-type Pokemon such as Keldeo, Terrakion, and Conkeldurr can deal heavy damage to Ferrothorn with powerful Fighting STABs.

**Intimidate and Burns**: Getting burned is annoying for Ferrothorn as Leech Seeds recovery will be negated due to burn damage. Ferrothorn's already middling Attack will also be cut due to burns and Intimidate which makes it difficult for Ferrothorn to have an offensive presence.

**Taunts and Substitutes**: As mentioned above, Heatran and Aegislash can easily Substitute on Ferrothorn as it has no way of breaking it with its attacks. Substitute also blocks Leech Seed, which makes Ferrothorn waste a turn if it Leech Seed on a substitute. Taunt can also be crippling for Ferrothorn, especially when using Thunder Wave, as this will limit you to being able to use only one move.
 
Last edited:

Idyll

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Add more points to Usage Tips or else I might have to reject this. Fam you have to tell me how to use Ferrothorn too, and also what kind of teams appreciate its presence. Two points is NOT enough.

And get rid of Occa Berry in OO lol you're still dying anyways.
 

Pocket

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Personally, I think Leftovers should be slashed before Rocky Helmet, as it really helps with Ferrothorn's longevity. What makes Ferrothorn so aggravating is its Leech Seed stalling, moreso than its Iron Barb damage. Leftovers help facilitate Ferrothorn to Leech Seed stall as long as possible, regaining additional 12% back to Ferrothorn before the opponent can attack next (thanks to Protect)

You should add that Ferrothorn should have 0 Spe IVs.

In the intro you should mention some of the prominent threats that Ferrothorn walls with ease: Diancie, Gardevoir, Sylveon, Metagross, Latios, Ludicolo, Kingdra, Kangaskhan, & Jirachi.

CB Ferro is also pretty legit. At least deserves an OO mention.
 

ryo yamada2001

ryo yamada2001
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Add more points to Usage Tips or else I might have to reject this. Fam you have to tell me how to use Ferrothorn too, and also what kind of teams appreciate its presence. Two points is NOT enough.

And get rid of Occa Berry in OO lol you're still dying anyways.
implemented, i think i added a decent amount of usage tips !

Personally, I think Leftovers should be slashed before Rocky Helmet, as it really helps with Ferrothorn's longevity. What makes Ferrothorn so aggravating is its Leech Seed stalling, moreso than its Iron Barb damage. Leftovers help facilitate Ferrothorn to Leech Seed stall as long as possible, regaining additional 12% back to Ferrothorn before the opponent can attack next (thanks to Protect)

You should add that Ferrothorn should have 0 Spe IVs.

In the intro you should mention some of the prominent threats that Ferrothorn walls with ease: Diancie, Gardevoir, Sylveon, Metagross, Latios, Ludicolo, Kingdra, Kangaskhan, & Jirachi.

CB Ferro is also pretty legit. At least deserves an OO mention.
i put leftovers in OO rather than set details, i haven't seen anyone use leftovers in a very long while but i'd gladly hear qcs opinion about this!

i actually asked memoric about this before and it wasn't really necessary because it is common sense and PS automatically does this when putting gyro ball on the set, making it a kind of unnecessary point

added this in!

added CB as well
 

xzern

for sure
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when talking about fire types, you seem to only be citing heatran and volcanion as threats. maybe try to spice things up by also mentioning chary, infernape, talonflame, rotom-h, etc in certain places instead

Overview
  • the way that u word the first point makes it sound like gardevoir and latios are threatened by iron barbs. maybe separate this by saying that its typing stops gardevoir and latios, while its ability scares off mega kangaskhan and mega metagross
  • maybe also add mega diancie as an example since its relevant
  • mention that these attackers are common/prevalent to emphasize that ferrothorn is good
Moves
  • add that gyro ball and thunder wave shouldnt be used together, as using thunder wave on an opponent will have gyro ball do less damage to them because gyro ball hits harder depending on how much faster the opponent is than the user
  • ferrothorn isnt weak to speed control, so when talking about protect, mention that it is primarily used to have a turn for an ally take out an opponent threatening to ferrothorn
Set Details
  • mention that 0 speed ivs should be used not just for gyro ball, but to also prepare against opposing trick room teams, so it should be used even if ur not running it
Team Options
  • trapping is also really neat with ferrothorn. it can freely stall out many common threats with leech seed or even pass the leech seed boosts to an ally if the opponents are prevented from switching by virtue of mega gengar or gothitelle's shadow tag.
  • fire types are also benefitted by ferrothorn's ability to greatly threaten opposing rain teams
Checks & Counters
  • as ferrothorn is so immensely weak to fire type attacks, it would also make sense to also mention pokemon that commonly carry nonstab fire-type coverage, such as salamence and hydreigon
1/3
 

talkingtree

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xzern gave the 1/3 at the bottom of his post, so is this ready for another check or are you waiting for something?
 

talkingtree

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Overview:
  • While Ferro does well against many Mega Pokemon, listing 4 consecutive megas in the first bullet point seems excessive. Maybe mention Azumarill or Rotom-W instead of Mega Garde?
  • Low base speed should mention 3 things in this order: Do well against TR teams, power up Gyro Ball, potentially good on TR teams. Ferro really isn't a TR mon so that should be downplayed
  • SR isn't relevant enough to mention in the OV, remove it
  • In that last bullet point, point out that Ferro needs a lot of team support to prevent the team being overly weak to Heatran, especially Sub variants
Set:
  • Talked with QC and we want to slash Leftovers before Rocky Helmet, Helmet is only really for teams that have no other good Kang switchins. Leftovers makes Seed + Protect way harder to take down, especially if you're also running TWave.
Moves:
  • Gyro Ball deals a lot of damage to *fast* frail opponents. I suppose there aren't exactly slow + frail threats, but it's due to their speed that Gyro Ball is threatening.
  • In the TWave bullet point, you say "It should not be used in conjuction with Thunder Wave, as Gyro Ball etc." so make sure you switch those in writeup
  • Leech Seed + Protect makes Ferrothorn a decent late-game wincon if its checks are removed
Set Details:
  • Talk about Leftovers
  • Something's up with your spread... first of all, you talk about 172 EVs when the listed spread has 176, and it doesn't actually OHKO Rotom-W or Jellicent (176+ Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Rotom-W: 276-326 (90.7 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO; 176+ Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Jellicent: 306-362 (75.7 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
  • Here's what I'd write about the spread:
    • 252 HP + 80 Def guarantees Ferro can survive Virizion Close Combat or two Breloom Mach Punches, even if using Helmet
    • Rest in Atk + Brave nature for more offensive presence, notably guaranteeing the OHKO on Choice Scarf Kyu-B
    • -Spe nature + 0 Spe IVs for more Gyro Ball power and improved TR matchup
Usage Tips:
  • When discussing Ferro's lategame capabilities, mention Lefties recovery too
  • Leech Seed on a predicted switch, allowing you to scout more reliably with Protect the following turn
Team Options:
  • Your 4th bullet point about beating Steel-type Pokemon is worded rather strangely. e.g. Heatran and Volcanion wouldn't be opposing Fire-types, but Fire-type partners. The information in it is good though
  • Spread attackers (Mega Diancie, Volcarona, etc) are great Ferro partners because the chip damage granted by Iron Barbs + Leech Seed can knock threats into range of their spread attacks
Other Options:
  • Remove Leftovers since it's getting added to main set
  • I'm not sure what "Fire" is as its own Bullet Point, maybe Occa Berry? That's bad though, so just remove it
  • Add Explosion, at least as a mention on the CB set
Checks and Counters:
  • In the **Fire-type Pokemon** tag, you gotta mention Heatran. It subs on Ferro all day, preventing Leech Seed, and easily takes it out with a Heat Wave.
  • **Taunt and Substitute** might be a worthwhile added tag, since either move will prevent Leech Seed, and if running TWave > Gyro, limits you to only one possible move.
Tag me when implemented and I'll give this another look before sending it to writeup
 

talkingtree

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Remove band, leave mentions of knock off and explode in OO because I like them but idk those might get removed later too

QC 2/3
 

Idyll

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[18:23] Elise♡: Memoric
[18:23] Elise♡: give memoric away pls
[18:24] Elise♡: uh
[18:24] Elise♡: ferrothorn*

moving. im taking this.
 

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