Ferrothorn [QC 3/3]

Colonel M

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Ah fuck how did I get stuck with this pile of thorns?


Serebii and shit

The preview is so outdated so I'm not linking it.

Overview
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Ferrothorn has a lot to love for a defensive Pokemon. Its typing is stellar in being able to resist many attacks - including Stone Edge, Waterfall, and Play Rough. Iron Barbs, its ability, is great for deterring physical contact to Ferrothorn as the recoil from Iron Barbs (and Rocky Helmet) can add up quickly. Ferrothorn should be seen as a supportive Pokemon that can threaten switch-ins with Leech Seed, entry hazards, paralysis, or one of its STAB attacks. Having a quadruple weakness to Fire-type attacks and losing its Ghost- and Dark-type resist is a setback for Ferrothorn; however, it is a Pokemon that can prevent powerful physical threats such as Azumarill lacking Superpower and Gyarados from sweeping through Ferrothorn’s team.


Utility
########
name: Utility
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Protect / Thunder Wave
move 3: Power Whip / Gyro Ball
move 4: Stealth Rock / Gyro Ball / Spikes
ability: Iron Barbs
item: Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
evs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
nature: Relaxed / Impish
ivs: 0 Spe


Moves
========

Leech Seed is the only attack that is a must for Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn lacks reliable recovery and can be worn down without assistance from Leech Seed and Leftovers. Leech Seed can be annoying for many Pokemon that may like to switch into Ferrothorn such as Conkeldurr. Protect is great paired with Leftovers and Leech Seed - Ferrothorn can easily recover a lot of health with the combination of moves and item while scouting for attacks from Pokemon such as Azumarill. Alternatively there is Thunder Wave to slow down faster threats such as Mega Gyarados and preventing Pokemon such as Charizard from switching into Ferrothorn so quickly. For attacking options Ferrothorn has two powerful STABs in Gyro Ball and Power Whip. Power Whip covers Mega Gyarados and Azumarill. Gyro Ball is great against Deoxys-S and Dragonite while being a good way to have Ferrothorn stop Mega Pinsir in a dire emergency.Finally, Ferrothorn has two entry hazards to consider using. Stealth Rock is easier for Ferrothorn to set up as it can force many switches and sometimes has to be swapped out immediately afterwards. Spikes is great when Ferrothorn has a teammate laying Stealth Rock like Skarmory or Landorus-T.

The combination of attacks can vary; however, it is necessary to at least carry one of your two STAB attacks when using Ferrothorn. The choice of Thunder Wave and Protect varies from utilizing Ferrothorn’s capability of forcing switches to be an advantage for slowing threats down or using Protect to scout for the opponent’s attacks while obtaining health from Leech Seed and Leftovers. When using Thunder Wave don't bother to run Gyro Ball - the power drop after the opponent becomes slower is significant. Ferrothorn is capable of running without entry hazards as well - other Pokemon such as Deoxys-D can set up hazards to leave Ferrothorn as a defensive switch-in for dangerous threats.

There are two other moves to consider for Ferrothorn - Knock Off and Iron Head. Knock Off is great for Ferrothorn since it causes many switches and forcing the opponent to lose their item. Iron Head can be used for a reliable Steel-type STAB when using Thunder Wave. The 20% flinch rate can be very annoying when paired with paralysis and Leech Seed.


Set Details
========

The given EVs allow Ferrothorn to circumvent physically offensive threats while also preventing Greninja’s Ice Beam from 3HKOing Ferrothorn as well as Tail Glow Manaphy’s Ice Beam from 2HKOing. A Relaxed nature with a 0 Speed IV is recommended to boost Ferrothorn’s base power on Gyro Ball. An Impish nature can be used instead with a 31 Speed IV if Ferrothorn is using Thunder Wave and Iron Head or lacking Gyro Ball altogether. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD prevents Kyurem’s Modest Life Orb Ice Beam from 2HKOing Ferrothorn.

The choice of items really boils down to what you want Ferrothorn to be more effective with. With Leftovers, Ferrothorn becomes more reliable in tanking attacks while having Protect to help gain a free turn of Leftovers recovery. The combination of Leech Seed and Leftovers can make Ferrothorn recover a lot of health. Pairing these with Protect just makes Ferrothorn that much more annoying. Rocky Helmet trades survivability to increase passive damage when an opponent makes physical contact with Ferrothorn.

Iron Barbs is the only ability to consider on Ferrothorn. Forget that Anticipation ever existed as a secondary option for Ferrothorn.


Usage Tips
========

Ferrothorn is a defensive Pokemon that supports its teammates in multiple ways. When Ferrothorn uses entry hazards it can be used as a lead to get Stealth Rock down as quickly as possible. Because Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D are also common leads, though, it may be best to leave Ferrothorn in the reserve and set up Stealth Rock later. Ferrothorn should use its monstrous defenses to switch into threats such as Greninja, Azumarill, and Gyarados. After Ferrothorn is in, Ferrothorn can opt to use Leech Seed to obtain extra health from the opponent, Protect to scout out possible moves such as Superpower Azumarill, laying entry hazards to deter constant switches, or using its powerful STABs. Alternatively, Thunder Wave can really screw up some of the faster Pokemon that may switch into Ferrothorn - or, at worst, prevent them from switching into Ferrothorn safely. Bear in mind that Ferrothorn’s STABs are easily resisted by a lot of Pokemon, so the safest move to use is usually Leech Seed. Protect can also be used by the opponent to set up on Ferrothorn. Always bear these in mind when using Ferrothorn and building around it.


Team Options
========

Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that is usually on more defensive teams; however, it isn’t a complete rarity to see Ferrothorn be included in more balanced teams. For more defensive teams consider Pokemon such as Hippowdon to prevent Mega Charizard X from taking advantage of switching into Ferrothorn’s STABs. Hippowdon can lay Stealth Rock or wear out the opponent with the combination of Toxic and the sandstorm summoned by Sand Stream. Chansey is a great Pokemon that can pass Wish to Ferrothorn while being able to cripple Mega Charizard Y. When using Stealth Rock Ferrothorn appreciates Pokemon that can force the opponent to re-consider using Defog as a means to remove entry hazards. Defiant Bisharp or Thundurus are two solid examples of Pokemon that can really intimidate Defog users from clearing away the entry hazards laid by Ferrothorn. Landorus-T is also a good Pokemon to consider as it carries Stealth Rock, Intimidate, can use U-turn to pivot to Ferrothorn, and use STAB Earthquake on Pokemon such as Mega Mawile. Clefable and Sylveon can be great teammates as they prevent Fighting-types such as Conkeldurr from being able to safely use Drain Punch or keep potential threats such as Greninja and Dragonite at bay when Ferrothorn is missing either of its STABs. Gyarados and Ferrothorn have a great typing combination and can really assist each other by taking on some of their problematic Pokemon.



Other Options
########

Bulldoze is an option if Heatran switch-ins need to be taken care of while preventing Magnezone from trapping Ferrothorn - assuming Magnezone lacks Hidden Power Fire. Toxic can be used to poison possible switch-ins; however, most will usually be immune to Toxic or possibly have Aromatherapy and Heal Bell support right behind them. Curse is an option since Ferrothorn is naturally bulky on both defensive spectrums and has an immunity to Toxic. Finally, Ferrothorn has just enough of an offensive movepool to use a Choice Band, but it isn’t recommended due to Ferrothorn mainly being used as a defensive Pokemon.


Checks & Counters
########


**Fire-types**: Ferrothorn’s STABs are easily resisted by Fire-types such as Heatran, Volcarona, Talonflame, and Charizard. Both of these Pokemon can switch into the majority of Ferrothorn’s attacks and leave Ferrothorn singed from their STAB Fire-type attacks. Though rare, Entei has an added benefit of its STAB Sacred Fire not being prone to Iron Barbs damage. Talonflame and Mega Charizard X must be weary as their STAB Fire-type moves are contact moves and, thus, take passive damage from Iron Barbs and possibly from Rocky Helmet.


**Physical Walls**: Like most Pokemon that don’t invest into their Attack Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that is easy to wall for some physical walls. Skarmory takes no damage whatsoever while possibly utilizing its own Rocky Helmet to damage Ferrothorn if it uses Gyro Ball or Power Whip. Defog can eliminate Stealth Rock or Spikes too while Skarmory sets up its own. Zapdos can also utilize Defog and, as an added bonus, use Heat Wave to make sure Ferrothorn leaves the scene quietly. Mandibuzz can use Taunt to completely shut down Ferrothorn. Mega Venusaur needs Hidden Power Fire but it can easily switch into any attack Ferrothorn uses and, in most cases, scare it off since Ferrothorn cannot do anything back to Mega Venusaur.


**Fighting-types**: Though Fighting-types may have an awkward time switching into Ferrothorn and the majority hate taking Iron Barbs passive damage they are easily capable of scaring Ferrothorn off. Though Conkeldurr will take a lot of damage in the process from Iron Barbs it can restore its health with STAB Drain Punch. Lucario easily resists both of Ferrothorn’s STABs to let it freely set up a Swords Dance.

**Taunt**: Ferrothorn is shut down hard by Taunt users as its STABs are rather easy to wall. As stated before Mandibuzz can easily use Taunt as well as other Pokemon including Heatran, Skarmory, Talonflame, and Thundurus-I. Deoxys-D can easily Taunt Ferrothorn and then proceed to set up its own entry hazards.


Overview
########


- Great typing combination
- Iron Barbs is great against contact users
- Access to Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Thunder Wave
- Slow enough to utilize Gyro Ball
- Great defenses
- Steel-type nerf does harm its overall resistance composition
- At least it resists Fairies
- Quadruple weakness to Fire- and a weakness to Fighting-type stinks
- Fairly prone to Taunt




Utility
########
name: Utility
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Protect / Thunder Wave
move 3: Gyro Ball / Power Whip
move 4: Stealth Rock / Gyro Ball / Spikes
ability: Iron Barbs
item: Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Relaxed / Impish
ivs: 0 Spe


Moves
========

- Protect and Leech Seed will help keep Ferrothorn healthy as well as harass opponents.
- Protect can be useful for scouting attacks that other Pokemon are using and help against Choice users.
- You can utilize Thunder Wave to harass potential switch-ins such as Charizard and Heatran.
- Gryo Ball can help Ferrothorn tackle threats thanks to its awesome defensive typing. Gyro Ball is good for catching Dragonite lacking Fire Punch, Deoxys-S, and many other fast Pokemon.
- Power Whip is a little more reliable thanks to its consistent 120 base power and full capability of stopping Mega Gyarados and Azumarill. Since Thunder Wave will often attract Rotom-W switch-ins Power Whip will also make Rotom-W think twice about switching into Ferrothorn again.
- Stealth Rock is the main entry hazard every team should use and Ferrothorn can easily provide.
- Spikes is a great move to utilize as the combination between Stealth Rock and Spikes can really harass opponents that lack Rapid Spin or Defog.
- Knock Off is a great attack to consider as the denial of Leftovers and extra health lost from Leech Seed can quickly drain opponents of their health.
- Iron Head works well in tandem with Thunder Wave to lock down opponents and obtain extra health from Leech Seed. Make sure to use an Impish nature with Speed IVs.


Set Details
========


- Near-max HP and max Def with a Relaxed nature helps Ferrothorn tackle many physical threats such as Mega Gyarados, Tyranitar lacking Fire Blast, and Deoxys-S lacking Hidden Power Fire. Relaxed boosts Gyro Ball’s base power significantly against faster threats such as said Deoxys-S.
- 0 Speed IV is also necessary with Relaxed nature to boost Gyro Ball.
- If Gyro Ball is absent Impish with 31 Speed IV is fine.
- Leftovers is the preferred item as it helps keep Ferrothorn in tip-top shape to continue taking on possible threats. Leftovers and Protect guarantee that Ferrothorn will at least recover 6% of its health and possibly more with Leech Seed.
- As Protect and Leech Seed can keep Ferrothorn healthy, Rocky Helmet can be used to further harass contact users such as Conkeldurr and Scizor.


Usage Tips
========


- Ferrothorn is often used as a Pokemon that lays entry hazards and proceeds to utilize Leech Seed to heal itself and its teammates while wearing out the enemy teammates and forcing switches.
- Since Protect is used on this set it can sometimes be fairly predictable to use. For example, Protect can often grant a near-free switch-in to another Pokemon. In response, try to predict the switch-in by using Leech Seed instead of Protect.
- Gyro Ball is necessary for Dragonite and other fast sweepers such as Mega Pinsir. If you’re in dire need of a Mega Gyarados counter while still using Stealth Rock or Spikes you can opt to drop Gyro Ball for Power Whip.
- Though at times it may be risky sending in Ferrothorn on a Pokemon that will use U-turn will also reap its benefits as Iron Barbs will hurt the opposing U-turner. You can add more passive damage with Rocky Helmet.
- Be careful of Scald and Will-O-Wisp. Ferrothorn does not appreciate burns whatsoever as its Attack is halved and the passive damage wears Ferrothorn down; especially those that opt to use Rocky Helmet.
- Utilizing Leech Seed and Thunder Wave can create many switches, so be sure to keep Stealth Rock down at all times possible!


Team Options
========


- Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that usually supports teammates and doesn’t necessarily require massive support around it.
- Sand Stream Hippowdon is a cool teammate as it can stop either Mega Charizard formes while shutting them down with either STAB Earthquake or Rock Slide. Hippowdon can supplement Stealth Rock so Ferrothorn can utilize Power Whip or Spikes.
- Chansey can pass Wish and heal with Aromatherapy if necessary while easily preventing Mega Charizard Y from doing anything to Ferrothorn.
- Though Fighting-types such as Conkeldurr do not enjoy taking damage from Iron Barbs, Leech Seed, or possibly Rocky Helmet, they are still a problem for Ferrothorn. Clefable and Sylveon are great teammates that can support Ferrothorn with Wish and / or Heal Bell while shutting down the majority of Fighting-types with STAB Moonblast or Hyper Voice, respectively.
- Thunder Wave will often lure in Electric-types. You can use Hippowdon or Unaware Quagsire to take on these threats easily. Alternatively, Tyranitar can shut out some Electric-types, barring Thundurus-I with Focus Blast, with its monstrous Special Defense.
- Without Gyro Ball Ferrothorn has a harder time checking threats such as Dragonite and Mega Pinsir; however, Thunder Wave will at least help by slowing these threats down. Having teammates such as Zapdos or Unaware Clefable can help Ferrothorn and its team out.
- Since Ferrothorn is commonly used to lay entry hazards it can attract Rapid Spin and Defog users. Though it is difficult to stop Excadrill from using Rapid Spin due to the lack of reliable Ghost-types that can take a STAB Mold Breaker Earthquake, you can take advantage of Defog users with Pokemon such as Defiant Bisharp who receives a +2 Attack boost.



Other Options
########

- Bulldoze will deter Heatran switch-ins as well as the rare Magnezone.
- Toxic can be used to wear down some of Ferrothorn’s switch-ins; however, most of Ferrothorn’s switch-ins consist of Steel-types or Hidden Power Fire Mega Venusaur.
- Curse exists to further boost Ferrothorn’s Attack and Defense. Without any access to reliable recovery as well as having poor STABs to utilize a mono-attacker, it is difficult to make use of Curse Ferrothorn without massive support.
- Ferrothorn has just enough moves to use Choice Band, but it is really a poor way to use Ferrothorn.




Checks & Counters
########


**Fire-types**: Ferrothorn’s STABs are easily resisted by Fire-types such as Heatran, Volcarona, Talonflame, and Charizard. Both of these Pokemon can switch into the majority of Ferrothorn’s attacks and leave Ferrothorn singed from their STAB Fire-type attacks. Though rare, Entei has an added benefit of its STAB Sacred Fire not being prone to Iron Barbs damage. Talonflame and Mega Charizard X must be weary as their STAB Fire-type moves are contact moves and, thus, take passive damage from Iron Barbs and possibly from Rocky Helmet.


**Physical Walls**: Like most Pokemon that don’t invest into their Attack Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that is easy to wall for some physical walls. Skarmory takes no damage whatsoever while possibly utilizing its own Rocky Helmet to damage Ferrothorn if it uses Gyro Ball or Power Whip. Defog can eliminate Stealth Rock or Spikes too while Skarmory sets up its own. Zapdos can also utilize Defog and, as an added bonus, use Heat Wave to make sure Ferrothorn leaves the scene quietly. Mandibuzz can use Taunt to completely shut down Ferrothorn. Mega Venusaur needs Hidden Power Fire but it can easily switch into any attack Ferrothorn uses and, in most cases, scare it off since Ferrothorn cannot do anything back to Mega Venusaur.


**Fighting-types**: Though Fighting-types may have an awkward time switching into Ferrothorn and the majority hate taking Iron Barbs passive damage they are easily capable of scaring Ferrothorn off. Though Conkeldurr will take a lot of damage in the process from Iron Barbs it can restore its health with STAB Drain Punch. Lucario easily resists both of Ferrothorn’s STABs to let it freely set up a Swords Dance.

**Taunt**: Ferrothorn is shut down hard by Taunt users as its STABs are rather easy to wall. As stated before Mandibuzz can easily use Taunt as well as other Pokemon including Heatran, Skarmory, Talonflame, and Thundurus-I. Deoxys-D can easily Taunt Ferrothorn and then proceed to set up its own entry hazards.


**Liquid Ooze**: Only one Pokemon, Tentacruel, is really noteworthy as it can use Liquid Ooze to force Ferrothorn and its teammates to take damage when Tentacruel is seeded.
 
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Taunt should probably have a section of its own in the checks and counters suction, as a majority of Taunt users can beat Ferrothorn with little to no trouble (Mandibuzz, Heatran) or using it as a setup fodder for hazards (Deoxys-D). You might also want to mention in the checks and counters section the Talonflame and Charizard X will be taking a shiton of recoil if they use Flare Blitz on Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn, making them unreliable counters.
 
I found a pretty weird Ferrothorn set once where someone was using Swords Dance set and was very bulky but I think had Adamant. Then Bullet Seed got my sash user. It was a real surprise actually
 

Colonel M

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I found a pretty weird Ferrothorn set once where someone was using Swords Dance set and was very bulky but I think had Adamant. Then Bullet Seed got my sash user. It was a real surprise actually
Swords Dance is inferior to Curse and, in most cases, Bullet Seed will be inferior to Power Whip (the only exceptions being Sash and Substitute users).
 
Swords Dance is inferior to Curse and, in most cases, Bullet Seed will be inferior to Power Whip (the only exceptions being Sash and Substitute users).
Yeah. J/S :P
And I actually really dislike when people break my sash with multi-hit moves, like with Heracross-M as well :/
 

Colonel M

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Made Protect a mandatory option per request (and logically makes sense).

Someone stamp this or I will demolish SwampLink in Challenger Cup.
 
I really think Skarmory should get a mention in the Taunt section of C+C

While Taunt is not even a slash on any of it's analysis' it is mentioned it's moves section (the same as Heatran and that got a mention). Skarmory resists both stabs and outright wall it completely (esp if it has rocky helmet) the same as Heatran and while it can't outright KO it, it can remove all it's hazards it set up and set up its own.
 

alexwolf

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Power Whip >>> Gyro Ball. Power Whip is needed to OHKO or dent Azumarill and Manaphy, both of which Ferrothorn checks at least once, and could otherwise 2HKO after a boost. Also, Power Whip is great against Mega Gyarados, which sometimes carries Sub, and is in general the best option against it. Gyro Ball does shit against the best Fairies (Azumarill, Mega Mawile, Clefable), and doesn't really help Ferrothotn check any Pokemon that it couldn't otherwise, except from Sub Kyurem-B. It is a nice option for Pokemon such as Latios and Latias, but Leech Seed is usually the superior option against those Pokemon, as it is a good move even if they switch out, unlike Gyro Ball.

tl;dr Power Whip handles very important threats, namely Manaphy, Azumarill, and Mega Gyarados, and should be the first slash on the third slot.

As for Protect, from my experience it hasn't been mandatory. Is it a great move and usually the best one in the second slot? Yes. But, Thunder Wave is really fucking great, especially considering how easily Ferrothorn lures in Pokemon such as Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y, Mandibuzz, and Mega Charizard X.

This is how i would make the set:

Utility
########
name: Utility
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Power Whip / Gyro Ball
move 3: Stealth Rock / Spikes
move 4: Protect / Thunder Wave
ability: Iron Barbs
item: Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Relaxed / Impish

Leech Seed is a must, an attacking move is a must, an entry hazard is a must, and then you have the last slot, where anything can go really, but those two moves are generally the best ones.

Toxic is another excellent option against common switch-ins to Ferrothorn (Mega Char Y and X, Talonflame), and helps a lot against defensive Defog users, namely Zapdos and Mandibuzz, so it deserves a ''Moves'' mention.

If you want, make my changes, if not, that's fine too. Either way:




QC APPROVED 1/3
 

Jukain

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alexwolf, Protect is mandatory if you want Ferro to keep decently healthy. I've discussed with multiple QC members; there's no way in hell it isn't mandatory.

The current set should stay as-is.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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Protect is just way too clutch - it buys Ferrothorn time while it is utilizing Leech Seed (and definitely when it uses Leftovers) to recovery lost health. Furthermore, you can do a lot with Protect such as stall turns of Outrage among many other things. Really Protect + Leech Seed is too powerful of a combo to really let go of this generation.

On the other hand this is what I wanted the slashes to become:

Utility
########
name: Utility
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Protect
move 3: Power Whip / Gyro Ball
move 4: Stealth Rock / Spikes / Thunder Wave

Jukain wanted something like this though:

jukain

Leech Seed
Protect
Power Whip / Gyro Ball
Stealth Rock / Gyro Ball / Thunder Wave

this also means Spikes would be dropped to Moves.

I am fine with mentioning Toxic in Moves. I will do that. I added Skarmory in counters with Taunt and have no issue explaining other potential threats to use Gyro Ball and Power Whip for. Also, if I had my way I would note that Ferrothorn can sacrifice its utility moves (SR / Spikes / T-Wave) for both attacks.
 

dcae

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Just change the Ferro set to Jukain's except Twave before Gyro and after SR and this is



2/3
 
Last edited:

Martin

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May I say that I have been testing both the CB and AV sets recently and they both seem to work very well due to Ferrothorn's not-too-shabby base 95 attack. I feel that they probably deserve a mention outside of OO. What does everyone else think? These are the sets I have been using:

Choice Band
########
name: Choice Band
move 1: Gyro Ball
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Knock Off / Spikes
move 4: Bulldoze / Spikes
ability: Iron Barbs
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe
nature: Brave

Gyro Ball hits like a truck with Choice Band, 0 speed IVs and EVs and STAB, Power Whip deals with the Water-types which resist Gyro Ball as well as providing a strong secondary STAB, Knock Off's power and utility are just amazing, hitting Aegislash harder than any other move and Bulldoze is mostly there to hit Heatran on switch-in, but it also hits other Steel-, Fire- and Electric-types which resist Gyro Ball hard. Spikes can be used instead of Knock Off or Bulldoze if you want a spiker on your team, although it isn't a great move to be locked into.

Assault Vest
########
name: Assault Vest
move 1: Gyro Ball
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Bulldoze
ability: Iron Barbs
item: Assault Vest
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe
nature: Brave

This set can take hits a lot better than the Choice Band set, at the expense of some power. Gyro Ball is the main move you'll be using due to its high power and STAB, Power Whip provides a secondary STAB, hitting the Water-types which resist Gyro Ball. Knock Off has high power and utility the first time you use it on a pokemon which can be knocked off, and Bulldoze is mostly there to hit Heatran on switch-in, but it also hits other Fire-, Steel- and Electric-types which resist Gyro Ball hard.

I know that the EVs could definitely be touched up a bit and the reasoning for the moves on both sets is the same, but you have to make the as much out of Ferrothorn's relatively small offensive movepool as you can with these sets. They are effective mainly through their suprise value, but they are also, simply put, good sets (albiet, not quite as good as the utility ones, but still very usable).

As for the existing analysis, I would like to ask about the wherabouts of Knock Off as it is a very good utility move on him with respectable base power. I would, personally, slash it somewhere into the utility set. Also, while not that good, I feel that Anticipation should maybe get an OO mention as it warns you about random Fire-type moves and the like when you switch in, so it isn't completely useless.
 

Alter

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An Assault Vest deprives Ferrothorn of one its greatest assets: access to such a large range of support moves–especially entry hazards in Stealth Rock and Spikes. Not only does getting rid of these moves already make Ferrothorn lose a lot of utility in this form, but an Assault Vest also prevents Ferrothorn from healing itself due to an inability to use Leech Seed and losing out on Leftovers. Moreover, as a physical attacker without any form of boosts, it is incredibly easy to wall (Skarmory and co. can come in very freely and proceed to lay down entry hazard).

Other Pokemon, such as Mega Charizard X, simply set up over it and proceed to crush the rest of the team. Ferrothorn simply becomes too much of a dead weight, and the lower Attack stat isn't justified by its excellent defensive stats because it won't get to properly exploit them. Knock Off and Bulldoze help stop setup attempts somewhat, but there are so many Pokemon that simply don't mind these moves and pose too much of a threat to make this set viable. I don't think I'd consider accepting the analysis if Assault Vest were to be added unless I see some really good replays of it in action. OO is as far as I think it should go.

I don't have too strong of an opinion on a potential Choice Band set, but the idea of letting the aforementioned Pokemon set up due to how sucky being locked into moves such Power Whip is not very appealing. I'd have to test it more in order to give a valid assessment.
 

Martin

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An Assault Vest deprives Ferrothorn of one its greatest assets: access to such a large range of support moves–especially entry hazards in Stealth Rock and Spikes. Not only does getting rid of these moves already make Ferrothorn lose a lot of utility in this form, but an Assault Vest also prevents Ferrothorn from healing itself due to an inability to use Leech Seed and losing out on Leftovers. Moreover, as a physical attacker without any form of boosts, it is incredibly easy to wall (Skarmory and co. can come in very freely and proceed to lay down entry hazard).

Other Pokemon, such as Mega Charizard X, simply set up over it and proceed to crush the rest of the team. Ferrothorn simply becomes too much of a dead weight, and the lower Attack stat isn't justified by its excellent defensive stats because it won't get to properly exploit them. Knock Off and Bulldoze help stop setup attempts somewhat, but there are so many Pokemon that simply don't mind these moves and pose too much of a threat to make this set viable. I don't think I'd consider accepting the analysis if Assault Vest were to be added unless I see some really good replays of it in action. OO is as far as I think it should go.

I don't have too strong of an opinion on a potential Choice Band set, but the idea of letting the aforementioned Pokemon set up due to how sucky being locked into moves such Power Whip is not very appealing. I'd have to test it more in order to give a valid assessment.
OK. Then put AV in OO. It was less effective than the CB set in my testing and I don't particularly feel like doing battles to get some replays.
 

Colonel M

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QC can twist my arm all they want on this one, but I adamantly refuse to put Assault Vest in OO. Choice Band is borderline gimmicky as is - A Ferrothorn without any support moves is an atrocious Ferrothorn.
 

alexwolf

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Why is Power Whip still not the first slash even after I, Colonel M and Jukain said that we want it to be?
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
question, why is phys def the only spread? There's a lot of special shit you want to be able to take better like Aegis' shadow, Thundy Focus Blast, Latios Draco Meteors, etc.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Ok, so I've been thinking about this and there definitely needs to be a mixed defensive spread either as the primary spread or in set details. It's lazy and sub optimal to waste FErrothorn's ability to deal with specially offensive threats. The issue with brewing up a set is that Ferrothorn is already pretty specially bulky at 252 hp so it can take some shit like 2 specs kingdra pumps in the rain, or a mega garde focus blast, so finding a good benchmark is hard. Couple that with the fact that leech seeds and protect means what Ferro can and cant beat quite dynamic and its impossible to find a perfect spread.

However, there are two spreads I suggest.

1) 252 hp / 216 def / 40 sdef

This avoids Manaphy's Ice beam 2hko at +3, and Greninja's Ice Beam 3HKO (only factoring in protect or leech seed recovery for gren). It also nearly guarantees living Life Orb thundy's Focus Blast after SR as well, while the phys def set has a bout a 40% chance to die to that.

2) 252 hp / 136 def / 120 sdef

This avoids Kyube's modest life orb ice beam 2hko. It also lives Gardevoir's Hyper Voice followed by a Focus Blast so you can switch into it. Mega Alakzam's Focus Blast has a 75% chance to ohko 252 hp ferro after SR but has a mere 12.5% chance again this build.

Thes benchmarks may be unimpressive, but the thing with ferro is that it uses seeds for recovery, and switches in a lot so its really no guarantee what its hp is going to be at in a mid game scenario, so the extra sdef helps it counter Kingdra, Kyurem and other threats.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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I'll look into those spread while I am writing this. I'm hoping to write this tonight, but I can't make exact promises. It is being worked on, though!
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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I would personally give Knock Off a slash on the actual set instead of only in moves as the utility of it combined with the fact that it is basically the best move in the game ATM are incredible, and such utility seems to fit perfectly on a support pokemon like Ferrothorn. I did read Spirits post before posting it and I agree that it is difficult to fit in, but my god is it worth is when you cripple that Chansey that is walling your team with an untimely Knock Off [replace Chansey with an item-reliant pokemon]. I would also add that it has a minor (possibly major) case of 4MSS as, like said before, it finds difficulty fitting in all the options that it needs to deal with everything that it needs to.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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Knock Off is hard to fill in with Ferrothorn's hefty slash-itis.

Like it isn't a terrible move since Ferrothorn forces switches but it really likes a lot of its support movepool outside of Knock Off. And having Power Whip / Gyro Ball can be nice, etc. It's just way too hard to fill.
 

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