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All Gens Find a Niche: Feraligatr

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Jellicent, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. BKC

    BKC
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    I think rby articuno is awesome but I'll let other guys handle that.

    in advance it used to be really sweet with a zapdos-esque ib/roar/restalk set cause stab ice beam threatens legitimately everything that doesn't get hit by spikes so it makes for some great shuffling. it also utterly shits on swampert/celebi and pressure is also cool. however it's borderline unusable now with the sleep talk nerf as it can't heal consistently and that is obviously an enormous thorn in its side (it does have heal bell which is extremely cool but idt heal bell restalk is too great an idea cause you just get set up on by everything with cm and are free for the steels). so, I think the only thing it's suited to do is something no other ice-type can:

    Articuno @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
    - Agility
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Fire/Grass
    - Roar / Heal Bell

    speed outruns bulky cele/zap/subcune/endpert/jolly ddtar pre-agil. anyway the idea is ohkoing spike-immune offensive pokes (mence aero zap gon; you don't ohko gar but you certainly smack it and it doesn't really hurt you too bad in return) makes endgame sweeps a lot easier since all (yes, all) the counters are going to be eaten by spikes so you really better get those layers down. also nice against claydol who wants to threaten your whole spikes operation.

    fun calcs vs zap in particular:
    252+ SpA Articuno Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 300-354 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpA Articuno Ice Beam vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 300-354 (85.4 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpA Articuno Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Zapdos: 214-252 (55.8 - 65.7%)
    0 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Articuno: 205-242 (59.7 - 70.5%)
    252 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Articuno: 251-296 (73.1 - 86.2%)
    252+ SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Articuno: 275-324 (80.1 - 94.4%) - absolutely minuscule chance in sand!!!!!!

    and another big one: 0 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Articuno: 142-168 (41.3 - 48.9%)

    hp fire if you wanna hit jira/meta (and Technically regice) or grass for suicune/starmie/not getting fucked around by swampert. roar racks up spikes and can be an emergency cm poke check. heal bell can also be used there because it's very unique and we all know how strong toxic is so it depends on team/preference.
  2. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    RBY: Strongest Blizzard, good at fighting Snorlax & Tauros, decent pivot into EQs aimed at Gengar or Rocks from those two. Blizzard is strong enough to 3HKO paralyzed Alakazams, of course forces Exeggutor to fuck right off, and of course being able to cheese for freeze against Chansey is a big part of its appeal too. Problems are Starmie and, to a greater extent, other Ice types, especially Lapras. Those dudes wall Articuno so hard, which is why it isn't standard despite strongest Blizzard being a huge selling point.

    Articuno
    -Blizzard
    Pick 3 of:
    * Agility (for shaking off paras & getting the jump on Tauros)
    * Rest (for trying to stall out paralyzed Chanseys when going for freezes)
    * Ice Beam (for going for freezes)
    * Hyper Beam (for KOing low-health Chanseys)



    GSC: It's pretty bad in GSC. Probably its best set is a stupid simple Sleep Talker that tanks Exeggutor like a champ & deals nicely with Nidoking too. But that's outclassed pretty hard by Suicune. A phazing support moveset is useful for mono-ice teams and its place on that gimmick team is probably its only true niche.

    Articuno @ Leftovers
    - Ice Beam
    - Whirlwind
    - Toxic / Reflect
    - Rest

    Hard to find a niche for something with such a sparse movepool, even if it isn't completely terrible per se.
    Century Express and Bongi like this.
  3. Oglemi

    Oglemi oh my gosh you found me
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    I've personally really liked reflect over either ice beam or rest in the last slot for rby to let it tank through Tauros and snorlax, tho it is hard to get both agility and reflect up effectively without giving the opp too much wiggle room.
    Bongi likes this.
  4. Bongi

    Bongi

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    I'm not really a gen 1-3 player so I can't say much about articuno in those.( I assume that's where it's shines the most with the absent of stealth rocks) However I can see articuno being used in oras with a sub, roost, freeze dry, hp ground set. Articuno can sub on many common oras threats such as Lando, Latis, amoongus, tangrowth, and scarf keld locked into scald. (I'm probably missing a few others) even with the ability to pressure water and ground types articuno extremely poor move pool coupled with horrible typing make it nothing more then a meme :(
  5. Fakes

    Fakes
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    I think GSC Articuno is very underwhelming, since it doesn't pose a threat to anything not weak to Ice, whereas the walling is done much better by other Pokemon with a wider array of uses. Curse is its best (and only) bet to do anything at. The most beneficial outcome in battle is to sacrifice it to Exeggutor's Explosion, thus shielding more value Pokemon from the kill. It might sometimes be threating in the very late stages of the game, assuming Electrics have already run out of Thunder PP and Growl/Charm users are dead.

    [​IMG]
    Articuno @ Leftovers
    - Curse
    - Hidden Power [Flying] / Frustration / Double-Edge
    - Rest
    - Whirlwind / Sleep Talk

    HP Flying comes at the price of 16 HP, but is generally slightly stronger than Frustration against anything not Electric type in addition to hitting Exeggutor and Heracross super effectively. The Normal type moves have higher PP (power in Double-Edge's case), but fails to even touch Ghosts. Since opposing Roar/Whirlwind users are rarely the only things stoping Articuno from being a threat, Sleep Talk is another option that makes walling much easier.


    ADV Articuno was severely nerved by the fixing of the Sleep Talk glitch 2 years ago, but can wake itself from its self-inflicted sleep with Heal Bell at the expense of its previous fourth move. Aside from BKC's Agility variant, this is likely Articuno only other option.

    [​IMG]
    Articuno @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Heal Bell
    - Rest
    - Roar / Haze / Reflect / Toxic / Ice Beam
    - Sleep Talk

    Roar diminishes both the loss of momentum caused by Articuno's passivity and the threat posed by most Calm Mind users. Haze is even better at dealing with the likes of Suicune or Celebi due to Pressure, especially if they are the last Pokemon, but forfeits ANY momentum. Reflect softens the impact of physical assault on Articuno's successor in battle, while Toxic generally scares things off and is its best shot at actually causing damage. Ice Beam makes Salamence, Aerodactyl, Zapdos and Flygon think twice about switching in and allows it to go toe-to-toe with Gengar. This kind of Articuno is best used with multiple Heal Bell benefiaries: Snorlax, Suicune, Zapdos, Skarmory, Swampert, ...
    Foggi likes this.
  6. PasY_G

    PasY_G

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    ADV OU
    Articuno @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 104 SDef / 152 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Hail
    - Protect
    - Substitute
    - Toxic

    Great defensive stats along with Pressure and miniscule offensive presence make Articuno a decent option for Toxic stalling. However, unlike Swampert arschloch and Skarmory Articuno won't regain any HP in Sand Stream which severly diminishes its longevity. Hail removes that problem and deals additional passive damage to all of OU, except for Regice and Cloyster. Unlike Sand Stream, Hail wears off after 5 turns, granting it decent synergy with Pokémon known to struggle in sand, such as Snorlax or Suicune.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
    badabing, Fakes and OrangeGuru like this.
  7. Jellicent

    Jellicent
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Sorry RBYers, but I'm gonna start using some GSC 'mons as well. We're getting low on good 1st gen choices and I'd like to save some for later weeks still~

    And what better way to start GSC than with its best starter? Feraligatr's always lived on the outskirts of OU, never getting high enough in usage to be a top dog but always still lurking in the depths. Stiff competition is probably the biggest thing that's held it back, though a few tools have always kept it niche. So, what can it pull off that other offensive Water-types can't? Do any Pokemon make particularly good partners for it? From GSC to ORAS, how do we best utilize Feraligatr in OU?

    [​IMG]
  8. Empo

    Empo
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    ORAS

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Ice Punch
    - Crunch / Superpower

    Thanks to its hidden ability Sheer Force, Feraligatr gets benefit from Life Orb without taking any recoil while getting the moves boosted, and can proceed to do some powerful damages with some nice moves; EVs are really standard, you can slash Jolly nature with the Adamant one, but it's your call, since with 280 speed (Jolly) you don't outpace lots of stuff, basically the 262 speed pkmns such as Breloom or Bisharp, while with Admant you rely on hitting harder. Moveset is really standard, because people usually don't run movesets different from this, probably Swords Dance over Dragon Dance, which is also an option. I like Dance more overall though, also because, even if Feraligatr is kind of slow considered all the other pkmn, you can outpace Manectric / Lopunny at +1, which is really nice. If you ever attempt to run the SD set, I highly suggest to run Aqua Jet as well, so you got a cool priority that combined with +2 Atk (after SD), can threaten a lot of stuff. Talking about the Dance set, Waterfall is the stab, Ice Punch is to nuke especially Dragon and Grass types which are both walled by its stab. Crunch is cool as well, I reckon this one can be slashed with superpower though, again, it's your call if you want to use Feraligatr.
  9. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    GSC

    Feraligatr @ Leftovers
    - Hydro Pump / Surf
    - Blizzard / Ice Beam
    - Earthquake
    - Screech

    Gatr isn't great. It suffers from the starter's curse: good all-around stats (good for in-game playthroughs) but nothing stellar to let it stand out. Add to it the physical lean of its stat distribution and its lack of physical STAB and you've got it coming up short in loads of ways, just like the 10 character limit came up short for its name.

    That said, a mixed Screech set is probably Gatr's best bet. Unfortunately, he gets direct competition from Golduck in this role, who gets access to Cross Chop (in addition to DynamicPunch, which Gatr also gets access to) and a much better SpA stat to work with. Gatr's Special Attack comes up short in a lot of ways (fun fact: Surf and Ice Beam only have 25% chances of 3HKOing Skarm & Zapdos, respectively, assuming you stay in to hit all 3 consecutively to boot), so the inaccurate Pump / Blizzard are first slashes to hit more feasible KO thresholds (especially important for things that are immune to Spikes). The physical move to be paired with Screech is Earthquake, the main thing Gatr gets that sets it apart from Golduck (in addition to its better Attack & Defense). EQ can beat up Raikou & Gengar on the switch (important checks that Golduck can struggle to deal with) in addition to being able to muscle past Suicunes and Vaporeons after a Screech. Pair it with Spikes to make the most of the opponent switching around to reset their Defense.
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  10. Foggi

    Foggi Tournament Banned

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    [​IMG]

    Feraligatr @ Mystic Water/Wacan Berry
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Aqua Jet

    In DPP Gatr is not an amazing but it has some cool niches like access to SD + Stab Ajet aswell as having good bulk for sd sweeper and it can easily punch holes in teams if it gets the right support or it can break things up for other sweepers like Gyarados wich is in my opinion Gatr's best partner because they break eachother's counters. The item is up to person's preference but i like mystic water more because gatr lives tbolt from offensive starmie without big problems even without wacan berry and you can simply aqua jet weakened electric types after you set up your SD.
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  11. Century Express

    Century Express
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    Personally, i'd only use SD Gatr in ORAS. I've had good experience with both sets (DD and SD), but even with a better firepower than Gyarados, DD Gatr lacks important resists / immunities (Gyarados at least can Intimidate Zard X Exca and resist Keld's both STABs), while Gatr provides 0 role compression. Unlike Azumarill and Crawdaunt, SD Gatr can punish regen Grass-mons more easily AND outpace Rotom-W / Zapdos / Tankchomp / slower Mew variants, which is nasty.

    Super underrated 'mon, too bad it's very hard to justify its place in a serious team (usually i'd stick with Manaphy or Suicune to break some specific bulkier teams).
    H.M.N.I.P likes this.

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