Finneon [QC 0/3]

[acestriker19]

Don't forget about me!

Also why does Finneon / Lumineon not get Dazzling Gleam as Lumineon is literally the neon pokemon... sigh.

Overview
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+ Winner of most forgettable Pokemon award 3 generations in a row
+ One of the few non flying Defoggers
+ nice speed and mixed bulk
+ One the few water types with access to a pivoting move
- A really really really shallow movepool
- Outclassed as a scarfer and pivot by Chinchou
- No recovery at all

Defog
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name: Defog
move 1: Defog
move 2: Scald
move 3: U-Turn
move 4: Ice Beam
ability: Storm Drain
item: Berry Juice
evs: 44 HP / 152 Def / 44 SpA / 28 SpD / 228 Spd
nature: Timid

Moves
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- Defog is the main reason to use Finneon as it clears all entry hazards
- Scald scares out strong physical attackers and is a reliable STAB
- U-Turn allows Finneon to act as a nice pivot
- Ice Beam has good coverage and Finneon doesn't have that many attacking options

Set Details
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- This EV spread emphasizes speed in order to outspeed +speed nature Dwebble
- This EV spread then attempts to maximize mixed bulk
- Unfortunately with this spread something had to give so Finneon's U-Turn hits considerably weaker with a Timid Nature though its main function is not power but pivoting
-Berry Juice is best for Finneon as it has no reliable recovery move to use in conjunction with Eviolite
-Storm Drain is Finneon's most useful ability and prevents some residual damage when switching in on water type moves

Usage Tips
========

- Finneon should be used as a Defogging Pivot
- Unlike flying type defoggers Finneon should not be used to wall as it gets worn down easily
- Finneon can be used to spread burns with scald when it doesn't need to conserve its HP to defog


Team Options
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- Fire-Type Pokemon really enjoy Finneon's presence as it can clear away stealth rock and doesn't stack weaknesses unlike flying type defoggers
- Pokemon that are weak to water are nice as they give Finneon free switch-in opportunities on water type moves
- Finneon can form a solid volt-turn core with pokemon such as Elekid
- Finneon wants a Pokemon that can beat Pawniard one v. one such as timburr or mienfoo
- Mienfoo and other pokemon can also function as slow turners into finneon helping finneon avoid further residual.
- Finneon synergizes well with a Hyper Offensive playstyle as Finneon can maintain offensive pressure with Scald, pivot and provide defog support to HO teams while quick matches make sure it avoids being worn down.

Choice Scarf
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name: Choice Scarf
move 1: U-Turn
move 2: Scald / Surf
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Defog / Hidden Power Grass
ability: Storm Drain
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 72 Atk / 208 SAtk / 228 Spd
nature: Naive

Moves
========

- U-Turn is Finneon's move of choice as a pivot
- Scald can spread burns quickly while surf is slightly stronger
- Ice Beam is really Finneon's only other option
- Defog can clear hazards at the cost of lots of momentum so its best to be used as a quick clearing of entry hazards before Finneon is KOed.
- Hidden Power Grass takes out Tirtouga and hits Chinchou for SE damage on switch-in.

Set Details
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- A Naive Nature allows Finneon to outspeed Standard +2 Tirtouga who cannot hit Finneon with priority because of Storm Drain
- EVs maximize special attack with the rest put into physical attack

Usage Tips
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- Finneon should be used as a Fast Pivot and revenge killer for pokemon such as Tirtouga, Abra and Houndour
- Finneon can be used to secure a quick defog to switch in sturdy smashers such as Tirtouga in the late game or help fire type teammates
- Scarf Finneon while generally outclassed by Scarf Chinchou has an advantage with an unblockable pivoting move.

Team Options
========

- Finneon is best being part of a volt-turn combo
- Finneon can help protect a team from water type moves so rock type and fire types appreciate it
- Finneon wants a pokemon that is able to take electric and grass type moves for it.
- Finneon synergizes well with a Hyper Offensive playstyle as Finneon can maintain offensive pressure with Surf/Scald, pivot and provide defog support to HO teams while quick matches make sure it avoids being worn down.


Other Options
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- Finneon has a really shallow movepool so on moves stick to the stuff on the analysis
- Finneon can be used as a Swift Swim sweeper but there are generally better options for that such as Omanyte


Checks & Counters
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- Ferroseed can spread paralysis set up hazards in Finneons face and punish it for using u-turn, pretty much a perfect counter
- Chinchou doesn't care about any of Finneon's moves and can threaten it out with the potential of a scarfed Volt Switch
- Pawniard with defiant can switch in to a predicted defog but must be wary of a scald
- Misdreavus doesn't really care about any of Finneon's moves and can OHKO finneon with any residual damage
- Finneon doesn't actually hit that hard in the defog set so most pokemon with eviolite can switch-in and threaten it out with minimum damage such as porygon.
- Wearing down Finneon with multiple attempt switch-ins is pretty easy with some good prediction

 

[Goddess Briyella]

If it helps you decide your EVs, remember that U-turn's primary purpose is for momentum, not damage. You don't necessarily have to allocate physical attacking power in your spread. :)

 

[acestriker19]

If it helps you decide your EVs, remember that U-turn's primary purpose is for momentum, not damage. You don't necessarily have to allocate physical attacking power in your spread. :)

Yeah you're right that Finneon isn't going to be doing wonders with U-Turn so the best place to take the hit would be in attack, thanks!

 

[acestriker19]

Done, I think I'm ready to go to QC as I the more I think about it the more I like my original spread.

 

[tcr]

Add in that it needs pokemon that can beat Pawniard. Pokemon that can give slow U-turns help as well, as Finneon could appreciate NOT switching in on both hazards AND an attack. This makes pokemon like Mienfoo a good partner. HP Grass>HP Electric if you are using it to check Tirtouga. HP Electric is horrid to get stuck into, as there arent a lot of pokemon that like taking multiple Earthquakes from pokemon such as Drilbur. Stress the importance of Finneon on Offensive teams, specifically more Hyper oriented teams. Wish support is kinda stupid for Finneon because its doubtful to live a hit anyway (unless I'm completely misjudging its ublk).

 

[acestriker19]

Add in that it needs pokemon that can beat Pawniard. Pokemon that can give slow U-turns help as well, as Finneon could appreciate NOT switching in on both hazards AND an attack. This makes pokemon like Mienfoo a good partner. HP Grass>HP Electric if you are using it to check Tirtouga. HP Electric is horrid to get stuck into, as there arent a lot of pokemon that like taking multiple Earthquakes from pokemon such as Drilbur. Stress the importance of Finneon on Offensive teams, specifically more Hyper oriented teams. Wish support is kinda stupid for Finneon because its doubtful to live a hit anyway (unless I'm completely misjudging its ublk).

I don't think I mentioned wish support but all your points are very valid implementing.

 

[tcr]

I don't think I mentioned wish support but all your points are very valid implementing.

IK I simply meant that a lot of defoggers use wish support in order to effectively defog throughout the match, but Finneon is fast and frail, making that useless.

 

[Lord Alphose]

- Defog can clear hazards at the cost of lots of momentum

I question whether you actually want to put Defog on a set. The loss of momentum is enough to murder you, especially late-game.

Checks & Counters
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- Ferroseed can spread paralysis set up hazards in Finneons face and punish it for using u-turn, pretty much a perfect counter
- Chinchou doesn't care about any of Finneon's moves and can threaten it out with the potential of a scarfed Volt Switch
- Pawniard with defiant can switch in to a predicted defog but must be wary of a scald

You really can't think of any more counters to such a frail Pokemon than this? Dig deep.

 

[acestriker19]

IK I simply meant that a lot of defoggers use wish support in order to effectively defog throughout the match, but Finneon is fast and frail, making that useless.

Oh that makes more sense, I completely agree as I can't see finneon being able to switch in in a weakened state to recieve a wish.

I question whether you actually want to put Defog on a set. The loss of momentum is enough to murder you, especially late-game.

You really can't think of any more counters to such a frail Pokemon than this? Dig deep.

I should've mentioned Defog should probably be used as Finneon is about to get KOed to keep the momentum loss to a minimum.

The problem isn't that there aren't many counters to Finneon I'll add em in but I mostly wanted to highlight pokemon that can put a player using Finneon at a severe momentum disadvantage, or completely negate any effect it had on the match hence pawn, chinchou and ferroseed.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

This analysis has been reassigned, so I'll be locking this thread.