rip jumpluff the vanilla town
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NOC Fire and Ice Mafia: Fire and Ice tie, the village loses.
- Thread starter The Diabolic Gift
- Start date
- Status
Wayan Vistar
formerly Flyhn
Wow guys, rly?
I did warn you.
RIP Celever and RSSP1
one was the doctor one was fire mafia, I forget which was which though
one was the doctor one was fire mafia, I forget which was which though
Lynch U-Turn Out
uto tie or gamethrow
uto tie or gamethrow
oh and billymills in case you need for some weird reason
Yea I'm not sure what you guys want to call it. A tie, everyone loses, or what.
I was just going off of
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=50436&start=1075
which is listed on http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Fire_and_Ice which is where the theme comes from. I think the reasoning is that both sides agree to a tie rather than a mutual loss since tying is better than losing.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=50436&start=1075
which is listed on http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Fire_and_Ice which is where the theme comes from. I think the reasoning is that both sides agree to a tie rather than a mutual loss since tying is better than losing.
Yea that's a good way to call it. Fire and Ice mafia tie, the village loses.
Not gonna lie, that sucked for town.
I'd be mad that we lost but I got incredibly lazy on the day pokeguy got lynched + the lynch was decided while i wasn't there since pluff and I had timezones that just didn't line up whatsoever. I can't really do anything but blame myself for not calling out UTO's distancing from Celever and for just straight up being lazy and putting all the responsibility on Celever, who obviously wasn't going to contribute bc he was stalling.
acid forced the tie on the final day, and it was really over for us at that point.
Oh well.
I'd be mad that we lost but I got incredibly lazy on the day pokeguy got lynched + the lynch was decided while i wasn't there since pluff and I had timezones that just didn't line up whatsoever. I can't really do anything but blame myself for not calling out UTO's distancing from Celever and for just straight up being lazy and putting all the responsibility on Celever, who obviously wasn't going to contribute bc he was stalling.
acid forced the tie on the final day, and it was really over for us at that point.
Oh well.
rssp1 who did you protect each night?
Can't believe Celever wasn't lynched. PokeguyNXB your defeatist attitude and continued refusal to even TRY and contribute really screwed the village over, next time people ask you for contributions EVEN IF THEY ARE WRONG just freakin DO IT. Nobody cares if your analysis sucks dick, they care if you don't give one at all because you look so scummy. If I didn't die and you didn't dick around all day spewing the same "well I can't defend myself!" nonsense Celever gets lynched.
Can't believe Celever wasn't lynched. PokeguyNXB your defeatist attitude and continued refusal to even TRY and contribute really screwed the village over, next time people ask you for contributions EVEN IF THEY ARE WRONG just freakin DO IT. Nobody cares if your analysis sucks dick, they care if you don't give one at all because you look so scummy. If I didn't die and you didn't dick around all day spewing the same "well I can't defend myself!" nonsense Celever gets lynched.
Wayan Vistar
formerly Flyhn
I already took responsibility for the loss... what more do you want? I just really didn't WANT to play here, i said sub me AS A LAST RESORT because i discovered how much i hate NOC in this game, and i was subbed in anyway because NOBODY wanted to play apparently. I'm glad it's over tbh
Wayan Vistar
formerly Flyhn
Yeah like the jumpluff lynch, i mean what?
I didn't get the game, can someone explain the game in a summary please?
What do you mean by explain?
The theme itself is pretty simple, 4 scum in 2 scumparties of 2 and a doctor.
Town got screwed over by absolutely 0 crossfire and the fact that the host made questionable decisions like modkilling you.
On the final days, acid's best way to force a tie is by getting rid of jumpluff, regardless of whether pluff was town or mafia. Sooooo that's what he did. At that point, town had no way of winning. The final day was 1 fire & 1 ice, neither of whom had a way to win while also not dying. As such, the game was called as a tie.
The theme itself is pretty simple, 4 scum in 2 scumparties of 2 and a doctor.
Town got screwed over by absolutely 0 crossfire and the fact that the host made questionable decisions like modkilling you.
On the final days, acid's best way to force a tie is by getting rid of jumpluff, regardless of whether pluff was town or mafia. Sooooo that's what he did. At that point, town had no way of winning. The final day was 1 fire & 1 ice, neither of whom had a way to win while also not dying. As such, the game was called as a tie.
Gale getting modkilled screwed us pretty badly, though.
The setup itself works, it's been tested many times with varying winners (town wins a decent amount), but perhaps it's just something that doesn't mix well with the players on the site. No idea, since it could've been a completely different game without the modkill.
The setup itself works, it's been tested many times with varying winners (town wins a decent amount), but perhaps it's just something that doesn't mix well with the players on the site. No idea, since it could've been a completely different game without the modkill.
I'm pretty sure the village is unable to outlynch the mafia kill rate by a good margin so they either need the mafia to double up on targets by mistake, crossfire, or the BG to be REALLY REALLY GOOD.
Smogon is incredibly power-role dependent, that's quite true, so it's possible the experienced players are too run-aground by the lack of any info role/power and the newbies' idling habits.
That's really what messed up our ability to lynch, was how many people idled and then gave defeatist attitudes that made them look scummy, stupid, or both. When players like Sam or myself scumhunt it's very difficult to discern if someone is ACTUALLY just playing really badly because they're inexperienced or if they're giving off a ton of obvious scumtells, in addition to the horrid lack of connections between users when someone either doesn't post or doesn't make contributions/interact with the game. Day One was a trainwreck because I seemed to be the only one who was strongly convinced HD was playing BAD without being bad due to his lack of partner scumtells and like, at what level do you begin second-guessing the suspicion he's scum due to that bandwagon play when even he himself seems to have given up and presents himself as scum? That gave acidphoenix WAY too much leeway when HD was a mislynch and Gale, the other bandwagoner, was modkilled and town. Acidphoenix was initially very similar to those three which is what I had been saying all along (and why Sam thought I was mafia.. next time listen to me you dummy) and when 1/3 then 2/3 came up town it made acidphoenix terribly uncertain of what he could be.
Hannahh was subbed for Walrein then UTO, right? Her stalling posts were SO terribly scummy to me but due to half the game being inactive it was so difficult to tell if she was stalling because she's not used to Smogon maf and thinks it's fine to make a bunch of worthless "big reads later!!" posts, actually was inactive/disinterested, or she was scum and uncertain how to act as village yet.
It's crap like that that made this game incompatible with Smogon meta. Too many inactives/idlers for the experienced players to be able to accurately pick one TRUE scum from the scummy masses. Day One should not have been a mislynch, unfortunately nobody was willing to pull the trigger on Celever for his terrible interactions with people because he always appears scummy.
Gale being modkilled while acid wasn't for doing also-sketch things was a questionable hosting decision. However Gale should have known better, he was warned once before then went on to continue breaking rules. There was no excuse for such poor play except his own slacking of reading the rules or understanding the site meta regarding night talking, editing etc. Those were two villagers down earlier than they should have been and made the rest of the game rather easy for the mafia due to the numbers.
jumpluff should never have been subbed in with me still alive. I had thought they weren't going to play when we first discussed the game and the shenanigans going on ("boy i hope sams town i dont wanna have a spat with mafiasam zzzz") since who WANTS to sub into a trainwreck NOC and then TDG subbed them in anyway figuring it wouldn't matter too much if they knew I was town I guess?? Maybe because I was consensus-town read?? Or just did it before reading the "yeti should be dead" condition.
Either way, that made me PROBABLY the cleanest person in the game because you can't sub someone in who knows one player is mafia unless you sub them onto the same team. Otherwise I'm a free lynch for pluff to go after. So I had to be town, or following DLE's lynch, Fire mafia with pluff. I think this was a big mistake by rssp in protecting pluff over me as pluff technically could have been subbed in for a mafian while knowing I was town, so there were more circumstances they (or Sam) could be mafia than me. I can see it justified by me moving at the time and being relatively inactive but I was one of the people who solidified the DLE lynch so I think that should have made me a priority since it was accurate. If I had survived I would have insta-lynched Celever because I was so bloody sure he was scum by that point. I mean, ultimately there were 3 core villagers to protect. It's possible rssp figured that since I was inactive, the mafia would leave me alone figuring I wouldn't contribute much the next day. Still, with circumstances equal, I think the person who has ONE remote possibility to be mafia (Fire with pluff, who could have been Fire with other or Ice, same for Sam) was probably a better target? Due to the clean aspect. rssp didn't seem to believe Celever was scum so perhaps he found my reads less valuable than pluff's. And I had tossed out suspicion regarding his predecessors, which nobody ever seemed to realize was ONLY if DLE was his partner. rssp knew he wasn't DLE's partner and the next day when acid said it was him, it should have helped clear rssp's name.
Anyway mistakes were made in this game and the expectations of older players versus the activity levels of new ones, and probably what they thought was a suitable amount of posting (which to us is scummy stalling and useless content), made scumhunting a much more muddled affair than it should have been.
Smogon is incredibly power-role dependent, that's quite true, so it's possible the experienced players are too run-aground by the lack of any info role/power and the newbies' idling habits.
That's really what messed up our ability to lynch, was how many people idled and then gave defeatist attitudes that made them look scummy, stupid, or both. When players like Sam or myself scumhunt it's very difficult to discern if someone is ACTUALLY just playing really badly because they're inexperienced or if they're giving off a ton of obvious scumtells, in addition to the horrid lack of connections between users when someone either doesn't post or doesn't make contributions/interact with the game. Day One was a trainwreck because I seemed to be the only one who was strongly convinced HD was playing BAD without being bad due to his lack of partner scumtells and like, at what level do you begin second-guessing the suspicion he's scum due to that bandwagon play when even he himself seems to have given up and presents himself as scum? That gave acidphoenix WAY too much leeway when HD was a mislynch and Gale, the other bandwagoner, was modkilled and town. Acidphoenix was initially very similar to those three which is what I had been saying all along (and why Sam thought I was mafia.. next time listen to me you dummy) and when 1/3 then 2/3 came up town it made acidphoenix terribly uncertain of what he could be.
Hannahh was subbed for Walrein then UTO, right? Her stalling posts were SO terribly scummy to me but due to half the game being inactive it was so difficult to tell if she was stalling because she's not used to Smogon maf and thinks it's fine to make a bunch of worthless "big reads later!!" posts, actually was inactive/disinterested, or she was scum and uncertain how to act as village yet.
It's crap like that that made this game incompatible with Smogon meta. Too many inactives/idlers for the experienced players to be able to accurately pick one TRUE scum from the scummy masses. Day One should not have been a mislynch, unfortunately nobody was willing to pull the trigger on Celever for his terrible interactions with people because he always appears scummy.
Gale being modkilled while acid wasn't for doing also-sketch things was a questionable hosting decision. However Gale should have known better, he was warned once before then went on to continue breaking rules. There was no excuse for such poor play except his own slacking of reading the rules or understanding the site meta regarding night talking, editing etc. Those were two villagers down earlier than they should have been and made the rest of the game rather easy for the mafia due to the numbers.
jumpluff should never have been subbed in with me still alive. I had thought they weren't going to play when we first discussed the game and the shenanigans going on ("boy i hope sams town i dont wanna have a spat with mafiasam zzzz") since who WANTS to sub into a trainwreck NOC and then TDG subbed them in anyway figuring it wouldn't matter too much if they knew I was town I guess?? Maybe because I was consensus-town read?? Or just did it before reading the "yeti should be dead" condition.
Either way, that made me PROBABLY the cleanest person in the game because you can't sub someone in who knows one player is mafia unless you sub them onto the same team. Otherwise I'm a free lynch for pluff to go after. So I had to be town, or following DLE's lynch, Fire mafia with pluff. I think this was a big mistake by rssp in protecting pluff over me as pluff technically could have been subbed in for a mafian while knowing I was town, so there were more circumstances they (or Sam) could be mafia than me. I can see it justified by me moving at the time and being relatively inactive but I was one of the people who solidified the DLE lynch so I think that should have made me a priority since it was accurate. If I had survived I would have insta-lynched Celever because I was so bloody sure he was scum by that point. I mean, ultimately there were 3 core villagers to protect. It's possible rssp figured that since I was inactive, the mafia would leave me alone figuring I wouldn't contribute much the next day. Still, with circumstances equal, I think the person who has ONE remote possibility to be mafia (Fire with pluff, who could have been Fire with other or Ice, same for Sam) was probably a better target? Due to the clean aspect. rssp didn't seem to believe Celever was scum so perhaps he found my reads less valuable than pluff's. And I had tossed out suspicion regarding his predecessors, which nobody ever seemed to realize was ONLY if DLE was his partner. rssp knew he wasn't DLE's partner and the next day when acid said it was him, it should have helped clear rssp's name.
Anyway mistakes were made in this game and the expectations of older players versus the activity levels of new ones, and probably what they thought was a suitable amount of posting (which to us is scummy stalling and useless content), made scumhunting a much more muddled affair than it should have been.
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