First is the Worst

[SoulRed12]

Decided to give UU trick room a shot. There are a couple specific problems (basically puzzles) I need help solving, and of course, I welcome all general comments as well. It's done pretty well on PS, but the problems I mention below have been, well, problematic, when they come up.

Victini @ Focus Sash
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- V-Create
- U-turn
- Protect

My "custom" Victini TR set. Hear me out. I chose focus sash, U-turn and Protect for a specific reason. This is the way I get a guaranteed Trick Room. Usually, I send this guy out first, and what I do then depends on what I see. If I suspect a multi-hit move, or a fake-out, I'll protect to scout. I don't really care if they get up stealth rocks, since he's the only one weak to them. I just need to ensure my sash isn't broken in a way that allows me to be KO'd before I can get off my -7 priority Trick Room. If I see a multi-hit move like Rock Blast, I'll direct-switch. Otherwise, I'll go ahead and trick room. From there, I V-create. If I hit a flash fire poke like Chandelure, I then U-turn out to Porygon 2 until it goes away. Then I go from there. If I have no trouble setting up TR but I don't want to V-Create for some reason, I will U-turn, since for some reason a lot of people don't notice I have all slow pokemon and trick room tends to take them by surprise. So they will frequently start trying to do something, and then change their mind and switch to something else after TR.

Of course, a taunt user completely shuts this guy down. In that case, particularly in the case of Froslass, I can go out to Hari and bullet punch it to death as long as it doesn't Destiny Bond on the switch.

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Trait: Mummy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 2 Spd
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Fighting
- Trick Room

I needed something to take fighting moves, since I have a lot of weaknesses to them. I also needed something to be a special set-up sweeper, and also to be a third trick roomer. I originally had Slowking here, but I already had a water type in Empoleon so I decided to go with him as I also needed something to hit ghosts and psychics and I didn't want another electric or grass weakness. The weird IVs are to keep 70 BP for HP Fighting, while keeping speed low for TR and Atk low for foul play.

Rhyperior @ Life Orb
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Ice Punch

Your basic physical TR sweeper. I don't really have much to say about this except, I might consider a choice band rather than life orb. Hmm...

Empoleon @ Choice Specs
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 156 SAtk / 100 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Scald

Water, Ice, Dragon, Rock, etc. resist, and water/ice/grass attacks. Special defense because I mainly needed the steel typing to protect against flygon's outrage and even at 252/0, Empoleon takes less than half from a choice banded outrage and can retaliate with specs ice beam or even hydro pump if I'm feeling bold (or...Modest? Actually, I guess Quiet in this case) since even that's an OHKO. He can also deal with Milotic if it doesn't have dragon tail.

Hariyama @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch

I desperately needed an answer to Curselax, and I needed something that could break through his curses immediately. Admittedly, I have Cofag now (I didn't when I originally put this guy on my team), but I still don't have a fighting STAB without him or even a fighting move. Plus I needed a second physical sweeper, AND he gives me a priority move. Toxic over flame orb because TR won't last for more than 3 turns once he comes in, and it takes 3 turns for toxic damage to be equal to flame orb damage. If there are fewer turns left, it's an even better deal. I chose ice over thunderpunch because ice hits fliers and he's not doing much to Slowbro anyway, and I have Empoleon and/or Porygon to deal with him and his royal brother.

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Tri Attack / Ice Beam ?????

I needed something to protect against Chandelure, and to be able to set up trick room without being weak to ghost/dark. (originally, I had Victini, Slowking, and Dusclops as the ones able to set up TR...I quickly realized my mistake when I had a Specs Chandelure locked into Shadow Ball in against my Victini with a broken sash) I really need help deciding between Tri Attack and Ice Beam. Ice beam lets me come in on Flygon no matter what move he's using (if he's either scarfed or if he's banded and TR is up) and threaten the OHKO, and helps against Gligar, but I already have Ice punch and Tri Attack is all around stronger. I need thunderbolt because I have nothing else with an electric move.

Problems I need help solving:

General:
-I need to put stealth rock somewhere on this team, preferably on something that likes to switch in as a lead since I wouldn't want to waste a turn of TR setting up the rocks. I find TR induces lots of switches, so I want to punish that. I don't really care about having a spinner since I can't imagine having time to do that and only Victini really cares.

-I don't have anything to resist/be immune to a ground type move (except...I guess, switching porygon2 in on a flygon's e/q :3)

Threats:
Swampert is a problem for the team unless I am very good with prediction. The only real way to reliably kill him is Empoleon's grass knot, but the question is whether I can get him in. Presumably Empoleon will be "faster" with the 0 Speed IVs and -spe nature, but if I switch in on an e/q...even a completely unboosted e/q from a 0 Atk leftovers Swampert is a guaranteed 2HKO on my Empoleon spread. If it's got 252 attack EVs it has a chance to OHKO. I could switch Cofag in, but he fears toxic, and if he switches in on an E/Q he could be beaten 1v1 anyway if the Swampert runs attack EVs and definitely beaten 1v1 if he also has a positive attacking nature, especially if TR isn't up yet.

Azelf is also a problem. Cofag can't switch into even a psychic which means TR better already be up so I can hit it before it finishes me off. I guess Victini can take care of it unless it has shadow ball, but my Victini's usually somewhat of a suicide lead. Porygon2 can take an unboosted hit, but could lose if he gets a NP on the switch or during the exchange, such as when I'm recovering.

Raikou can also be a problem, if either TR isn't up or I don't get Rhyperior in on an immune move. He can get in even a shadow ball, or worse an aura sphere or even a hidden power ice or worse grass, and if I manage to live he can simply switch out while I have to predict what he'll bring in next.

Finally, Milotic can be a problem if it has dragon tail. Porgyon2 can't deal with it if it has even 252/0 with a neutral nature. In theory it can't beat Porygon2 either, but it might have toxic, and even without it, a TR strategy doesn't allow for wasting any turns especially considering dragon tail amusingly has a higher priority than TR. Therefore, all I can do is switch Empoleon in, but he can dragon tail me out as I switch in, wasting TR turns, or even if I do get in, he can take a grass knot and force me out. Outside of Empoleon, only Rhyperior or Hari can really do anything substantial to it (and that's assuming it's already damaged), so if I'm not forced out into one of them (3/5 chance with no pokemon fainted) it gets a free recover. If I can then get Empoleon back in, it switches out and I've wasted lots of TR time.

 

[patrick11756]

Good team, just a few points.
1. Why not just put rhyperior as the sp def tank on smogon site? You're not getting any key KOs with max attack, nor are you faster than anything specific in tr. Rhyperior would be able to tank a hit, lay down sr and pseudo haze with dragon tail.
2.I wouldn't exactly consider empoleon good to counter flygon who carries earthquake. If you're not running max attack on choice specs, you're wasting potential. I recommend trying choice specs abomasnow with giga drain/blizzard as your main moves. Abomasnow can take an earthquake and retaliate with ice shard/ blizzard or regain health with giga drain. You'll find your swampert and flygon problems much easier to handle. Btw cofagrigus is bulky enough to tank outrages. Also, abomasnow is slow enough to abuse tr, also.
3. The main problem with trick room is the lack of real speed in case tr is down. May I recommend choice scarf heracross in place of hari? Heracross will be able to clean up very nicely after tr is done. It also has that great fighting/ground resist that's great for your team. If your are worried about froslass, then slap on rock blast to rhyperior who can easily ko with minimum attack investment.

Other than that, good team!

 

[Stellar]

If the main reason for Protect its to stop Fake Out, you are better off replacing it with another move and switching straight to Cofagrigus. If you switch in on Ambipom/Mienshao/Hitmonlee Fake Out, then you are guaranteed a Trick Room without having to let Victini take damage.

 

[SoulRed12]

@Patrick: I like your ideas. I think I'm definitely going to use Heracross. My only concern with using tank rhyperior is that leaves me without a full on physical TR sweeper...though based on some calcs I did, it does seem like he's still pretty strong.

With regard to Abomasnow, I really really like the idea, and it *would* alleviate my swampert problems (not to mention disrupt opposing weather abusers), but I'm not sure how I feel about not having a steel type if only for a dragon move resist or a bulky water. Also, if Flygon goes u-turn or outrage on the switch, I'll be in for a problem. Anyway, if I use it, you'd recommend a set of Giga Drain, Blizzard, Ice Shard, and? Think life orb could work instead (so ice shard would be powered up too)?

@Stellar: Ah, right. Good catch. That means I get to put bolt strike back on Victini.

 

[patrick11756]

Trust me on rhyperior I run the bulky sp def tank on my team and its a life saver.

As far as abomasnow, you have some options. Life orb is def okay over specs. Abomasnow has the luxury of 92/92 offenses. It has the option of going physical, special or mixed (as I suggested). You could run a set with blizzard/giga drain/ice shard / earthquake. Earthquake can be used to hit victini and empoleon. If you get burned by sableye, you can fall back on your stab blizzard and giga drain. You could run lonely nature. To boost attack while still being able to tank special water attack. As far as evs are cocerned, I need to do the calcs. But I beieve 252 +attack ice shard ohkos sp def roserade and flygon (easily).

 

[patrick11756]

Trust me on rhyperior I run the bulky sp def tank on my team and its a life saver.

As far as abomasnow, you have some options. Life orb is def okay over specs. Abomasnow has the luxury of 92/92 offenses. It has the option of going physical, special or mixed (as I suggested). You could run a set with blizzard/giga drain/ice shard / earthquake. Earthquake can be used to hit victini and empoleon. If you get burned by sableye, you can fall back on your stab blizzard and giga drain. You could run lonely nature. To boost attack while still being able to tank special water attack. As far as evs are cocerned, I need to do the calcs. But I beieve 252 +attack ice shard ohkos sp def roserade and flygon (easily).

252 +attack ice shard does 74 -87% on 252/0 neutral roserade. I recommend lonely nature, 252 attack/ 252 sp attack/ 4 sp def. Btw giga drain from 252 neutral natured abomasnow with life orb breaks +2 252/4 sp def neutral suicune sub everytime (27-33%)

 

[Bassmaster4]

I don't really think protect is necessary. The only multi hit move that would kill you would be rock blast, and only Rhyperior and Cinncino run that. If you're up against one of them, just U-turn (only on Rhyperior, Cinncino will be faster) into somethings that can deal with it, your best option being Cofagrigus. As to what to add, I don't really know. It's your team, so add whatever fits best.