First post on RMT

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by HasKal, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. HasKal

    HasKal

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    16
    Team Name: 2nd Coming

    Introduction:- I am HasKal, and this is my first RMT post. I have been playing pokemon since I was 9-10 years old, but only recently started playing competetively on PS. This team, called 2nd Coming, is my second attempt at building a viable OU team. The first one was an all offense team, which did not work out very well in the long run. I made this team from the mistakes that I learnt of from the first one, and it actually includes two pokemon I previously had trouble dealing with. So here goes....


    [​IMG]

    Alakazam @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Magic Guard
    Nature: Timid (+Spe,-Atk)
    EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Moves: Trick / Psyshock/ Focus Blast / Shadow Ball

    Description: One of my two choices for a lead generally, this guy has a lot of surprise value. Very few expect Alakazam to be carrying a Choice Scarf given its high speed, but this set has few very amazing uses, all due to one move, Trick. Although not so common nowadays, it can completely shutdown Smeargle leads on Baton Pass teams. Also cripples most defensive walls, Eviolite users, setup sweepers (if used on the turn they use to setup). A very limited but effective use is to stop a Volcarona after it has used 1 Quiver Dance, as Alakazam is still faster due to Choice Scarf, and the Volcarona will be most probably be locked into Bug Buzz at the end of the turn. Alakazam dies in the process, though it can be pivotal in emergency situations.
    The remaining three moves are standard fare, Psyshock is preferred so as to OHKO Terrakion in sandstorm. Timid nature is preferred over Modest, as after tricking away the Choice Scarf, Timid Gengar will outrun Alakazam and KO with Shadow Ball otherwise. The power drop is significant though, this Alakazam cannot OHKO Tyranitar in sandstorm.
    ******** EDIT ************
    I forgot to add this part in the first post. Choice Scarf also lets Alakazam check Chlorophyll Venasaur in the sun and lands a clean OHKO with Psyshock. Also works as a good check to Bulk Up Toxicroak in rain, as most people blindly click Sucker Punch as soon as I bring out Alakazam.
    Plus with a little bit of prediction, can be used to mess up Trick Room users, especiallu Reuniclus. Its true Alakazam cannot OHKO Reuniclus, but in my experience it doesn't have to after Trick


    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 232 HP, 56 SpA, 220 Spe
    Moves: Hydro Pump / Volt Switch / Pain Split / Will-o-wisp

    Description: This is the standard bulky attacker set of Rotom-W, taken from Smogon. My other choice for a lead in most situations, and the one I prefer in more number of cases. The HP investment is important, as it allows to take powerful hits from many pokemon such as +0 Outrage from Garchomp,Dragonite and Salamence, and burn them in return with Will-o-wisp. Hydro Pump is pure power, and puts the hurt on most pokemon under the rain, which is pretty ubiquitous considering the number of rain teams in use. Volt Switch is pretty good, and helps preserve momentum. Pain Split fits really well, as it gives very decent recovery, and despite the investment in HP, still works likes a charm against most pokemon. The 220 speed EVs are crucial as it allows Rotom to cripple Gliscor leads with Will-o-wisp, if the opponent does not use Protect on the first turn.


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    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252HP, 88 Def, 168 SpD
    Moves: Power Whip / Leech Seed / Spikes / Gyro Ball

    Description: Again, the standard set from smogon. The nature and EV spread make Ferrothorn an amazing mixed wall, although I mostly use it against special attackers. Leftovers and Leech Seed provide just enough recovery to function in all but very few cases. Spikes is pretty self explanatory, while Power Whip and Gyro Ball are used for offense. The exclusion of Protect / Thunder Wave might raise questions, but the merits of using Gyro Ball justify the decision in my eyes. At full or near full health (>= 88%), Ferrothorn survives a Focus Blast from Alakazam and Gengar, and can OHKO in return with Gyro Ball. Plus it generally works well on many other pokemon, due to Ferrothorn's abysmal speed. Ferrothorn is my go-to-guy to counter most Outraging Dragons, and in general a very good defensive pivot.



    [​IMG]

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk/SpD
    Moves: Rapid Spin / Stealth Rock / Pain Split / Gyro Ball

    Description: A lot of people might question the use Forretress on a team which already has Ferrothorn, but I have seen a lot of positives to doing so. Forretress is physical wall, being able to resist near about anything physical not named Fire Punch / Flare Blitz. Also the ability lay down both Spikes and Stealth Rock is helpful to rack up passive damage. Pain Split is a good recovery move just like on Rotom-W. It also has a niche against Life Orb users as at full health Sturdy will leave Forretress with 1 HP against any attack, allowing Pain Split to bring the opponent down to near 50% health, hence reducing their time on the field. Gyro Ball, like on Ferrothorn, is used to smack faster users, especially Choice Scarf Terrakion.



    [​IMG]

    Volcarona @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flame Body
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Spd
    Moves: Quiver Dance / Fiery Dance / Bug Buzz / HP Rock

    Description: My special attacker, the offensive Quiver Dance variant of Volcarona. After just one Quiver Dance, which is essential, it can sweep entire teams on its own, if they do not possess the very few specific counters to this set. Life Orb provides the necessary attack boost, hence Timid nature is preferred. Fiery Dance is used partly due to its secondary effect of raising Sp Atk and partly because I think it goes nicely with Quiver Dance aesthetically. Bug Buzz provides amazing coverage alongside Fiery Dance, nailing Psychic and Dark types. HP Rock is used to deal with Dragonite, Salamence and Gyarados in particular, and flying types in general. HP Rock is also a good move to smack opposing Volcarona, especially in the rain. The way this set works is to switch in on opposing Forretress, Scizor or any pokemon that cannot threaten Volcarona, then setup and sweep. This set has its limitations though. It is walled to hell by Blissey / Chansey, while Terrakion, Heatran and Keldeo get a free switch in as it can do nothing to any one of them. Status is the bane of this set, as any kind will almost completely cripple Volcarona.



    [​IMG]

    Haxorus @ Choice Band
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Moves: Outrage / Earthquake / Superpower / Dual Chop

    Description: I chose Haxorus over Salamence or Dragonite for one reason only, I think it looks so much cooler than the other two. Over time the choice has proved useful functionally as well, Choice Band Haxorus is insanely powerful. Jolly nature is crucial for me, as it allows to Haxorus to outspeed non-Choice Scarf Hydreigon, +0 Dragonite and Ninetales which are not invested in speed(which they usually are not). Haxorus is my lead against almost every sun team, netting a KO on the first turn itself. Superpower lets it take on Heatran, Ferrothorn and +0 Lucario(even +1 Lucario at full health). Earthquake is awesome as always, particularly allows Haxorus to beat non-Scarf variants of Rotom-A due to Mold Breaker. Dual Chop is just barely passable, but I use it to counter SubPunch users(read Breloom), who would otherwise decimate my team.



    Extra Remarks: This team is by no means perfect, not even close in my opinion. In fact one pokemon who can completely destroy it is Conkeldurr, as after one Bulk Up, nothing on this team can touch it. There are few good things too, one is the weather-independence, allowing me to beat sun, rain and sandstorm teams with relative ease. Another good thing is the surprise factor, as although I run many standard sets, there are a few personal tweaks which work pretty well in my opinion.

    Conclusion: I would absolutely love feedback. I am currently in the process of testing my 3rd team, which I will post soon.
  2. Dr Ciel

    Dr Ciel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,129
    Hi there!

    This is a really cool team you have here, making great use of a real potent threat in Choice Band Haxorus and an oddly potent threat in Choice Scarf Alakazam, so I'll give you some props for that. However, there are some huge threats to this team and you have some flaws that could use some fixing. Hopefully, with my rate, this team can improve and help combat the threats that I will explain in further detail later in this post. With all that said, let's get on to my rate. Okay, there are several threats to your team, with the biggest being Choice Scarf Salamence. If Salamence can come in late-game with no hazards on the field, it can literally rip your team to shreds, as Haxorus is definitely not faster and Alakazam can't KO with any of it's moves and Trick will be rendered useless. Another threat is Life Orb Volcarona. If Volcarona can get up even one Quiver Dance when Alakazam is dead, your team has absolutely no chance to beat it. For these reasons, I would recommend running Choice Scarf Latios over your Choice Scarf Alakazam. With a Choice Scarf Latios, you can OHKO opposing Scarf Salamence with a powerful Draco Meteor and KO opposing Volcarona with a combination of Surf + Draco Meteor. With your biggest flaw out of the way, I'd like to make some nitpicks. On your Volcarona, I would recommend running Fire Blast over your current choice of Fiery Dance. Fire Blast is an insanely powerful STAB move that not many resist and since a +1 Fire Blast hits harder than a +2 Fiery Dance, this is usually the better option. Up next, I would like to suggest running an Adamant Nature on your Haxorus in place of your Jolly Nature. With an Adamant Nature, you hit an absurdly high Attack stat of 648, destroying literally everything in it's path. My final suggestion would be to run Aqua Tail over your current choice of Dual Chop. With Aqua Tail, Haxorus gets a 2HKO on the Pokemon that give Haxorus trouble, such as Skarmory, Forretress, Landorus-T and Gliscor. Well, that's all i have to say for now. I hope my advice helped. Have fun and good luck in your future endeavours!

    Latios (open)

    [​IMG]
    Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psyshock​


    TL;DR (open)

    • Alakazam [​IMG] ---------------------> Choice Scarf Latios [​IMG]
    • Volcarona [​IMG]: Fiery Dance -> Fire Blast​
    • Haxorus [​IMG]:​
    • Jolly -> Adamant​
    • Dual Chop -> Aqua Tail​


    ~Dr Ciel~
  3. HasKal

    HasKal

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    16
    I like your idea about using Scarf Latios, especially to counter Life Orb Volcarona, which I admit still gives me problems from time to time.

    Fire Blast is also another good option, though as I said I used Fiery Dance for aesthetic reasons too. That doesnt hold now really, as I start getting to higher ratings. Will switch soon enough.

    As for Adamant nature on Haxorus, I tried that before settling for Jolly. I found that for the purposes I generally use Haxorus which is mid- to late-game hit-and-run attacks, speed is more important. What with the entry hazard damage already racked up and damage dealt by my other pokemon, Jolly Haxorus gets the job done pretty well.

    Thanks for the feedback. Will post my 3rd team soon.
  4. MjoeS

    MjoeS

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    15
    You have a pretty tough team with good coverage. I having a hard time which pokemon will fit in your team. Potential threats that I can see are Trickroom Teams. Reuniclus, Slowbro/Slowking and Rhyperior are known for this strategy. Rhyperior alone can seriously weaken your team once TR is up except for Ferrothorn maybe. I do agree with the Haxorus being Jolly to outrun some threats. He already has the fire power to it especially with the Choice Band. I love your Choice Scarf Alazam set.

    Try my Ferrothorn Set and combo it with your EVs Spread. Let me know if this works for you.

    Ferrothorn (M)
    @ Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Nature: Brave ( + Atk / - Spe )
    EVs: 252 Hp / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Gyro Ball / Bulldoze / Spikes / Thunder Wave

    Description: The Team’s Special Wall and Spiker. This pokemon strategy is to setup spikes when appropriate. Thunder Wave is used for crippling the speed of the opponent’s pokemon. Bulldoze is to damage and slowdown Heatran and Magnezone that try to switch-in. Bulldoze can two hit KO these major threats. Gyro Ball is just to do heavy stab damage on very fast pokemons.
  5. HasKal

    HasKal

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
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    I like your idea about the Ferrothorn set, though I feel using Thunder Wave and Gyro Ball on the same set is a bit counter-productive. It potentially reduces the power of Gyro Ball. Plus not having a Grass type STAB move means I will be completely exposed to pokemon like Gastrodon who resist / immune to electric attacks.

    Thanks for the feedback, will be happy to return the favour. :)
  6. SoulRed12

    SoulRed12

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
    Messages:
    357
    My pokemon-by-pokemon (i.e., non-holistic) comments in bold:

    Actually, if you can get Zam in on a bulk up, even a +1 guts-boosted mach punch won't OHKO him:

    252Atk +1 Guts burned Conkeldurr (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 4HP/0Def Alakazam (Neutral): 63% - 74% (159 - 188 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Although, you can't OHKO back with psyshock:

    252SpAtk Alakazam (Neutral) Psyshock vs 4HP/0Def +1 Conkeldurr (Neutral): 53% - 63% (188 - 224 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    If you ran psychic instead of psyshock, on the other hand:

    252SpAtk Alakazam (Neutral) Psychic vs 4HP/0SpDef Conkeldurr (Neutral): 122% - 144% (432 - 510 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    Of course as you mention, this leaves you a bit more vulnerable to Terrakion in the sand, so that's a choice there. Keep in mind you'll still OHKO Terrakion outside of sand:

    252SpAtk Alakazam (Neutral) Psychic vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Terrakion (Neutral): 102% - 120% (332 - 392 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    More general (team) feedback:

    I generally prefer Rotom-W leads to be the scarfers, but ScarfZam's okay, too. Keep in mind thanks to magic guard you could also be using life orb (since magic guard prevents LO recoil) or focus sash (since magic guard prevents entry hazard and status/weather damage) sets. LO sets are just insane levels of power for no real drawbacks, while focus sash sets are great revenge killers that don't suffer from the issue of being choice-locked after one hit. But it's really up to you, I'm just giving you some options.

    I do have some reservations about Ferro + Forretress on the same team, only because you could just consolidate it into one or the other. I would personally go with Ferrothorn, since you desperately need some answer to DD'ing Haxorus, who rips straight through your team thanks to the lack of priority unless Zam is both alive and still has his scarf, though even Zam can't do more than about 50% damage. A +1/+1 Haxorus doesn't even really have to use outrage since fire punch and earthquake will be more than enough thanks to mold breaker which ignores Rotom's levitate and Forretress's sturdy to OHKO both:

    252Atk Life Orb +1 Mold Breaker Haxorus (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Rotom (Neutral): 158% - 186% (482 - 568 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    252Atk Life Orb +1 Mold Breaker Haxorus (+Atk) Fire Punch vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Forretress (+Def): 124% - 146% (440 - 520 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.


    Even Volcarona goes down to a single earthquake:

    252Atk Life Orb +1 Mold Breaker Haxorus (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Volcarona (Neutral): 116% - 136% (362 - 427 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    On the one hand, if you have a Ferrothorn, you can take advantage of iron barbs and his steel typing to come in on an outrage (which the Haxorus hopefully uses)...

    252Atk Life Orb +1 Mold Breaker Haxorus (+Atk) Outrage vs 252HP/88Def Leftovers Ferrothorn (Neutral): 48% - 56% (170 - 200 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 12% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.

    ...get some iron barbs damage in, and then hopefully win on the 88% chance to be able to retaliate next time with Gyro Ball:

    0Atk Ferrothorn (Neutral) Gyro Ball vs 4HP/0Def Leftovers Haxorus (Neutral): 57% - 67% (168 - 198 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Add to that 25% for both iron barbs hits, and 20% for life orb hits, and you end up with a chance to KO. If he's hit something else already, then it *will* KO.

    On the other hand, Forretress is desirable since he can rapid spin stealth rocks away for the benefit of Volcarona, but then he's less able to quickly take care of Haxorus because of no iron barbs damage.

    Whichever you choose to keep, I'd replace the other one with a physically defensive Jellicent who can provide much-needed protection against physical Infernape, who 2HKOs Rotom with Close Combat (almost OHKOs, particularly with Stealth Rocks up):

    252Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape (+Atk) Close Combat vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Levitate Rotom (Neutral): 74% - 87% (225 - 267 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    That's all I got. Good luck!
  7. HasKal

    HasKal

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    16
    Awesome feedback with lots of numbers, must have taken quite a while.

    I did consider Life Orb / Focus Sash sets for Alakazam, but I felt they were making my team too standard. I wanted a personal touch, so I tried it. Will definitely try using LO in the future tho, just to see power of it.

    I have encountered the issue of DD Haxorus while playing, but Haxorus is used so less that it's hardly a big issue. I have been playing with this team for ~2 months, and I only came up against one other. Still it's a good point you made, one which I admit I missed while making the team.

    Thanks for the awesome feedback and the time it must have taken to write it. :)
  8. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    28
    Hey got your message I've been off showdown for a week or so my bad it took so long to get back to you. Anyways I like the team and I thought that scarf alakazam was a nice surprise idea as crippling stall teams with trick and OHKOing and outspeeding venasaur in the sun is also nice. However, scarf Alakazam just doesnt hit hard enough in my opinion and more often than not, with his extremely poor defenses, he either didnt KO and was KOed back, or he was victim to a priority move. Pain split on forretress is unneeded and I highly doubt it will ever prove useful. As for a possible change I would say go band Dnite over Band Hax as you have 0 priority on your team and dragonite can actually switch in and take a hit on many pokes.

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