First Real HO Team

[Truth or Dare]

Team At A Glance

INTRODUCTION


Hello Smogon community I am quite new to the competitive world of pokemon and have been fiddling around with many teams starting of with a team only useing the fastest pokemon in pokemon black which was CRAP. Now after that i fiddled around a bit changing my serperior into a duel screener and giving most of my pokemon set up moves thats when i learned about HO. Now learning about HO was a big jump forward with me completly changing my whole team.


Now to get to the team here is the standard HO lead with a little twist.

Deoxys-S @ Light Clay
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Stealth Rocks

Deoxy's-S will be my lead coming and setting up the fastest Dual Screens (bar pranksters of course) which is essential for my team being hyper offensive. Taunt is there to stop opposing Deoxys-s as well as set up sweepers which will allow me to set up my screens and SR to greatly increase my teams chances. Stealth Rocks is the last move on this set to help my team get that much needed extra damage to score some KOs as well as breaking and focus sashs or sturdys.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Substitute

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

Terrakion has amazing offensive typing and great bulk for a sweeper especially in the sand that is ever more popular, has given Terrakion the freedom to do what very few other Pokemon in the game are able to, run a double boosting set. This gives Terrakion amazing versatility vs both offensive and defensive teams. Against offensive teams, Rock Polish allows Terrakion to use its great STABs and the boost from Life Orb to run through them. Against slower, defensive teams, Terrakion can amplify its raw power to simplely smash any wall that thinks it can take a hit, since it is unlikely to require the Speed boost. Also, it is pretty common to find myself in a situation where I am able to boost both Speed or Attack by 4 stages.

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Salamence is one of the greatest pokemon ever made and there is no doubt in my mind why he was banned last generation. Now while he is available to OU why wouldn't you use him and his best set. DD Salamence is an amazing set that take down teams by itself single handedly with it's extremely powerful stab Outrage it can blast though even things that resist by would it do that when it has Earthquake the almost perfect move combined with Outrage to give almost unresisted coverage. Now Fire Blast rounds out this set by dealing massive damage to skarmory and bronzong which could wall this to hell without it as well as being my best bet of beating ferrothorn, scizor and the like.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 232 Hp / 252 Atk / 24 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite

Swords Dance boosts Scizor's Attack to sky high levels alowing it to just plow though teams. Bullet Punch is Scizor's main move, bypassing its pathetic Speed to deal huge damage to anything that doesn't resist it and alot that do. Superpower is on this set to deal with the Steel-types that plague Scizor, allowing it to lure in and destroy powerful foes such as Heatran and Magnezone which brick break couldn't dream of. It also allows Scizor to deal with Skarmory when at +2 allowing him to 2HKO her, and makes switching into Scizor extrmely difficult. Finally Bug Bite rounds of this set allowing him severally damage slow walls such as Hippowdon and Slowbro, 2HKOing and OHKOing respectively at +2.

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Stead Fast
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Crunch

Close Combat serves as Lucario's main STAB move hitting extremely hard against anything that doesn't resist it and alot that do. With ExtremeSpeed's boost to +2 priority, Lucario can now out speed all other offensive priority moves except for Fake Out (which it gets a very nice boost of speed from) which is a great boost making it abile to patientionly kill of priority users before they can even hit him (cough*conkeldurr*cough). Crunch is used to hit ghost pokemon like Jellicent and Gengar that are immune to my other 2 moves as well as giving me perfect coverage. I put stead fast in there instead of inner focus because i think a boost to speed is much better than being immune to them because lucario being quite slow at 90 base, needs all the speed it can get which could potentially win me the game.
​

 

[Eggbert]

This is really good for a first HO team, however I have a few things that might help you a bit.

The first is Deo. Run taunt / stealth rock in the last slot. Magic coat is great sometimes, I know, but you need taunt and sr. Taunt stops stuff from setting up on you. For example, once people realize you don't have taunt, they will bring in their dragonite and have a good shot at tearing apart your team. Also, SR is really important to fight against other Dragonite as otherwise they can check everything on your team. I've tested magic coat deo alot and it is just not as reliable as taunt SR.

Next, you will want to change your dragonite set. It won't be breaking through anything as it is. I've used the same set and changed it soon after because it is too weak. Run 4 hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe, Outrage / Fire Punch / Earthquake (extremespeed is good too, but I'd test EQ first for Heatran) This will let you lure in and weaken Quagsire since they will try and toxic you will you can weaken it greatly with outrage. You shouldn't have any time to roost, so that is a waste too.

The last thing I would be worried about are bulk up users. Scarfty is checked by Lucario and Scizor, but Conkeldurr can probably 6-0 you. I'd run Draco Meteor > Earthquake on Salamence. You don't have to run full mixed, DD mixmence is still effective. This will let you revenge it and also give you another way to lure in quagsire. With that this team looks really solid.

@Below: It's better than having something like Dragonite set up on you from the lead position. Now that Thundurus is gone, prankster is very rare.

 

[King John]

This is really good for a first HO team, however I have a few things that might help you a bit.

The first is Deo. Run taunt / stealth rock in the last slot. Magic coat is great sometimes, I know, but you need taunt and sr. Taunt stops stuff from setting up on you. For example, once people realize you don't have taunt, they will bring in their dragonite and have a good shot at tearing apart your team. Also, SR is really important to fight against other Dragonite as otherwise they can check everything on your team. I've tested magic coat deo alot and it is just not as reliable as taunt SR.

No, Magic Coat should stay because it'll prevent Deoxys from becoming Taunt bait for the likes of Whimsicott and it's Prankster friends.

 

[That Noob]

No, Magic Coat should stay because it'll prevent Deoxys from becoming Taunt bait for the likes of Whimsicott and it's Prankster friends.

with magic coat, the opponent just switches in d-nite or scizor and starts setting up. Since this is HO you need Taunt because once D-nite nabs a DD or two on your taunt-less Deo-S, you're done.

 

[AceTrainerAndy]

Maybe you over looked this but you have no dedicated special attackers. I might be a noob but what is HO? I have never heard of this??? I would recommend replacing Salamence with a Latios of some-sort maybe Expert Belt to bluff choice. But other than that pretty solid :).

 

[Truth or Dare]

This is really good for a first HO team, however I have a few things that might help you a bit.

The first is Deo. Run taunt / stealth rock in the last slot. Magic coat is great sometimes, I know, but you need taunt and sr. Taunt stops stuff from setting up on you. For example, once people realize you don't have taunt, they will bring in their dragonite and have a good shot at tearing apart your team. Also, SR is really important to fight against other Dragonite as otherwise they can check everything on your team. I've tested magic coat deo alot and it is just not as reliable as taunt SR.

Next, you will want to change your dragonite set. It won't be breaking through anything as it is. I've used the same set and changed it soon after because it is too weak. Run 4 hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe, Outrage / Fire Punch / Earthquake (extremespeed is good too, but I'd test EQ first for Heatran) This will let you lure in and weaken Quagsire since they will try and toxic you will you can weaken it greatly with outrage. You shouldn't have any time to roost, so that is a waste too.

The last thing I would be worried about are bulk up users. Scarfty is checked by Lucario and Scizor, but Conkeldurr can probably 6-0 you. I'd run Draco Meteor > Earthquake on Salamence. You don't have to run full mixed, DD mixmence is still effective. This will let you revenge it and also give you another way to lure in quagsire. With that this team looks really solid.

@Below: It's better than having something like Dragonite set up on you from the lead position. Now that Thundurus is gone, prankster is very rare.

If i change dragonite to a non bulky set he basicly just becomes salamence so maybe i should change him for a DD gyarados or something. Also if i lose earthquake on my salamence i get walled to hell. lastly im sure conkeldurr will take more damage from outrage (before a bulk up atleast) because most put SpD EVs on them and he can't really hurt me that bad unless it has stone edge.

 

[That Noob]

Maybe you over looked this but you have no dedicated special attackers. I might be a noob but what is HO? I have never heard of this??? I would recommend replacing Salamence with a Latios of some-sort maybe Expert Belt to bluff choice. But other than that pretty solid :).

argh this is gettin annoying to explain. Anyways, HO = hyper offense. This revolves around a suicide lead setting up screens and hazards and 5 physical or special sweepers. It focuses around constantly battering the enemy team and wearing down each sweeper's checks and counters enough that the 4th or 5th sweeper can break through and sweep. Adding a special sweeper completely ruins it because now the enemy can swap his heavily injured gliscor for a full health heatran and suddenly you have lost all the momentum.

 

[RaikouLover]

I like this. Its very good. Small suggestion. I would try Pursuit or Night Slash on Scizor over Bug Bite to hit Jellicent, who is a pain in the ass for Lucario. Just for a try though if you don't like it change it back. Pursuit loses no coverage and is 60 Base Power thanks to technican vs. Night Slashes 70. The onl difference is you may actually want to Pursuit something that your last sweeper may need to kill. But at +2 it should OHKO Jellicent. Lucario should have Ice Punch to punch through Gliscor and Dragonite, because they wall him harder than Jellicent does. Watch out for Slowbro though. If he becomes too much of a problem go back to Bug Bite on Scizor. But this is all up to you. Mix and match with your team.

Also, DDMix Salamence may or may not work as well. It is worth a test. This team looks really fun I don't have any real suggestions this are just things to try out.

 

[dpg2172]

i tried this team.it's pretty good.but change dragonite set to outrage/extreamspeed insted od dragon claw/roost.
i also replaced lucario to brelume with subpunch set.it worked better than lucario for me.try it out if it works for yours.
set is:-
Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
:naughty:

 

[Truth or Dare]

I like this. Its very good. Small suggestion. I would try Pursuit or Night Slash on Scizor over Bug Bite to hit Jellicent, who is a pain in the ass for Lucario. Just for a try though if you don't like it change it back. Pursuit loses no coverage and is 60 Base Power thanks to technican vs. Night Slashes 70. The onl difference is you may actually want to Pursuit something that your last sweeper may need to kill. But at +2 it should OHKO Jellicent. Lucario should have Ice Punch to punch through Gliscor and Dragonite, because they wall him harder than Jellicent does. Watch out for Slowbro though. If he becomes too much of a problem go back to Bug Bite on Scizor. But this is all up to you. Mix and match with your team.

Also, DDMix Salamence may or may not work as well. It is worth a test. This team looks really fun I don't have any real suggestions this are just things to try out.

I think ill keep bug bite on scizor so i can take down hippowdon, slowbro and when a jellicent comes out i normally switch to conkeldurr to take the status and hit with a payback or just bulk up. Also i will change lucarios last move to ice punch for the same reason that jellicent isn't that big of a threat.

i tried this team.it's pretty good.but change dragonite set to outrage/extreamspeed insted od dragon claw/roost.
i also replaced lucario to brelume with subpunch set.it worked better than lucario for me.try it out if it works for yours.
set is:-
Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
:naughty:

I was thinking of changing dragonite to maybe a DD gyarados because it's to much like salamence if it's not bulky. Also ill try subpunching brelume out seems like it would work, but the thing i don't like about focus punch is they can just switch in a resisted pokemon or even a ghost which you can't put to sleep because of sleep clause.

 

[King John]

with magic coat, the opponent just switches in d-nite or scizor and starts setting up. Since this is HO you need Taunt because once D-nite nabs a DD or two on your taunt-less Deo-S, you're done.

But alternatively, once Whimsicott switches in and Taunts Deoxys-S, it can then set up seeds and start a brutal stall war or force a switch. It's pretty much a lose-lose situation.

 

[wraiders11]

But alternatively, once Whimsicott switches in and Taunts Deoxys-S, it can then set up seeds and start a brutal stall war or force a switch. It's pretty much a lose-lose situation.

so the real decision is which is more common? set-up sweepers or whimsicott? i agree with using taunt, one pokemon is much less of a problem than several, especially when most of his pokemon can handle whimsicott easily with their own priority attacks

 

[That Noob]

But alternatively, once Whimsicott switches in and Taunts Deoxys-S, it can then set up seeds and start a brutal stall war or force a switch. It's pretty much a lose-lose situation.

in team preview its easy to scout out whimsicott, who completely cockblocks Deo-S. While magic coat prevents this, you can simply switch out to Lucario, who can wield a +2 extremespeed to hit before whimsicott's leech seed or sub. while whimsicott is annoying, magic coat isn't required. switching once or twice in HO won't kill you

 

[dpg2172]

Dragonite can take hits batter than salamence due to multyscale. For brellum you need to eliminate ghost types and switch in brellum when opponent have two to three pokemons left.it works great

 

[Truth or Dare]

Dragonite can take hits batter than salamence due to multyscale. For brellum you need to eliminate ghost types and switch in brellum when opponent have two to three pokemons left.it works great

The only thing breloom has over lucario is poison heal and spore (which he couldn't get up against anything but walls because he is so slow), because a +2 close combat does alot more than focus punch (while not taking two turns) as well as him having a priority move and a 100% accurate ice punch for flyers.

 

[Bruno Magno]

Deoxys-S @ Light Clay
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Hp / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly or timid (doesn't really matter)
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Stealth Rocks
- Taunt
Superpower > Light Screen can save your ass vs a Tyranitar. Most of the times (if you're Jolly 252 Atk) is OHKOed, and your opponent won't be able to set up Stealth Rock. Spikes > Taunt, if you want, is good too

Gyarados @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Adament
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
Ice Fang > Stone Edge: power vs Zapdos, but much better for Gliscor and Dragon-types such as Salamence or Dragonite. Jolly Nature is better, you often won't Dragon Dance

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Go for Hone Claws + Fire Blast + Dragon Rush + Earthquake, with these moves with 100% acc you will hit everything in the mg, especially if you carry Life Orb

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 244 Hp / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite
Scizor is really bulky, so i guess Expert Belt > Life Orb because you get a great boost without losing HP

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Stead Fast
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Ice Punch
You are quite weak to Fake Out, especially with Deoxys-S as lead, so, if you send Lucario on a Fake Out from Mienshao / Ambipom, you'll get a free boost from Steadfast. So, i think Jolly nature would be better. The Attack after a SD will be 638 and not 700, but more Speed means you will outspeed all >103 base Speed (all 100, and Garchomp) if not positive-natured

 

[New World Order]

THANK YOU SO MUCH! Finally, a Hyper Offense team thats really is a Hyper Offense team.

First off, a couple nitpicks. Run a 232 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 24 Spe Adamant Nature spread on Scizor. This gives you 339 HP, which minimizes Life Orb damage and lets you get in as many hits as possible. Second of all, I suggest runnign Crunch over Ice Punch. Gliscors nowadays are running 216 Speed EV spreads to outspeed Lucario. Without Excadrill to contend with, Gliscor doesn't need to invest heavily in bulk and can capitalize on its ability to outspeed Lucario. How are you going to beat Gliscor when it just outspeeds and revenge kills you with Earthquake? You wont really have many Dragonite problems, as you already have Salamence and Scizor taking it down. Crunch allows you to plow through Jellicent, who could prove problematic to your team with Will-o-Wisp.

I suggest swapping to a SubDD Gyarados. With this set, Gyarados can capitalize on the Switchturner teams that don't run a second electric move on Rotom-W. Simply Substitute as Rotom-W comes in, Dragon Dance as it Volt Switches out, and KO the switchin. Gyarados is now faster than non-Scarf Rotom too. So the next time Rotom comes in, Gyarados can just Substitute to block the Volt Switch, and KO the next switchin. Rinse and repeat until either Rotom is the only Poke left on the opponent's team, or Gyarados has gotten enough Moxie boosts to overpower Rotom. Its a win-win situation. Run Bounce as the final coverage move for an extra STAB and something to hit Celebi with. Plus, Bounce gives Gyarados 2 turns to heal HP behind its Substitute.

Hide

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Moxie
Adamant
80 Hp/ 244 Atk/ 184 Spe
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce

Finally, I suggest trying a Double Dance Terrakion over Conkeldurr. While Conk is undoubtedly a powerful pokemon, its power pales in comparison to a +2 Terrakion Close Combat. With Rock Polish, Terrakion gives you an ace to work with against oposing Hyper/ Heavy Offense teams. Terrakion has near perfect coverage between its two STABs, and because of how frail most Hyper/ Heavy Offense teams are, once Terrakion gets a jump on them in speed, it can plow through them with ease. Terrakion also gives you another option to bring down Chlorophyll sweepers on sun teams should Salamence fall. Outspeeding every notable sun abuser after Rock Polish, and taking out the likes of Sawsbuck, Darmanitan and Volcorona with Close Combat and Stone Edge. Finally, stall teams that do not carry Slowbro or Quagsire will be absolutely mauled by Terrakion after a Swords Dance. Not even Skarmory can take the hit, and Terrakion would more often than not be MVP against stall.

Hide

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Justified
Jolly
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Hp
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

 

[Truth or Dare]

THANK YOU SO MUCH! Finally, a Hyper Offense team thats really is a Hyper Offense team.

First off, a couple nitpicks. Run a 232 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 24 Spe Adamant Nature spread on Scizor. This gives you 339 HP, which minimizes Life Orb damage and lets you get in as many hits as possible. Second of all, I suggest runnign Crunch over Ice Punch. Gliscors nowadays are running 216 Speed EV spreads to outspeed Lucario. Without Excadrill to contend with, Gliscor doesn't need to invest heavily in bulk and can capitalize on its ability to outspeed Lucario. How are you going to beat Gliscor when it just outspeeds and revenge kills you with Earthquake? You wont really have many Dragonite problems, as you already have Salamence and Scizor taking it down. Crunch allows you to plow through Jellicent, who could prove problematic to your team with Will-o-Wisp.

I suggest swapping to a SubDD Gyarados. With this set, Gyarados can capitalize on the Switchturner teams that don't run a second electric move on Rotom-W. Simply Substitute as Rotom-W comes in, Dragon Dance as it Volt Switches out, and KO the switchin. Gyarados is now faster than non-Scarf Rotom too. So the next time Rotom comes in, Gyarados can just Substitute to block the Volt Switch, and KO the next switchin. Rinse and repeat until either Rotom is the only Poke left on the opponent's team, or Gyarados has gotten enough Moxie boosts to overpower Rotom. Its a win-win situation. Run Bounce as the final coverage move for an extra STAB and something to hit Celebi with. Plus, Bounce gives Gyarados 2 turns to heal HP behind its Substitute.

Hide

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Moxie
Adamant
80 Hp/ 244 Atk/ 184 Spe
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce

Finally, I suggest trying a Double Dance Terrakion over Conkeldurr. While Conk is undoubtedly a powerful pokemon, its power pales in comparison to a +2 Terrakion Close Combat. With Rock Polish, Terrakion gives you an ace to work with against oposing Hyper/ Heavy Offense teams. Terrakion has near perfect coverage between its two STABs, and because of how frail most Hyper/ Heavy Offense teams are, once Terrakion gets a jump on them in speed, it can plow through them with ease. Terrakion also gives you another option to bring down Chlorophyll sweepers on sun teams should Salamence fall. Outspeeding every notable sun abuser after Rock Polish, and taking out the likes of Sawsbuck, Darmanitan and Volcorona with Close Combat and Stone Edge. Finally, stall teams that do not carry Slowbro or Quagsire will be absolutely mauled by Terrakion after a Swords Dance. Not even Skarmory can take the hit, and Terrakion would more often than not be MVP against stall.

Hide

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Justified
Jolly
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Hp
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

First thanks for the scizor EVs didn't know about minimizing life orb damage. Also i had crunch on my first lucario but people told me to change it for ice punch because jellicent gets owned by conkeldurr because of guts (absorbing the status) and payback. Secondly the subDD seems interesting but bounce is such a terrible move they switch into a terrakion or something that resists.

 

[New World Order]

First thanks for the scizor EVs didn't know about minimizing life orb damage. Also i had crunch on my first lucario but people told me to change it for ice punch because jellicent gets owned by conkeldurr because of guts (absorbing the status) and payback. Secondly the subDD seems interesting but bounce is such a terrible move they switch into a terrakion or something that resists. Ill type more later but i got to go to school

There's really no point of having Ice Punch nowadays though. Every good player is running Gliscor with 216 Speed, so they'll beat you anyways. As well, no good player sends in Jellicent against Conkeldurr, since Jellicent doesn't even have good enough physical defense to take an unboosted Payback, much less a Guts boosted one. You want to win against good players, not take advantage of players who you'd probably beat anyways. Besides, Terrakion is a better option than Conkeldurr for a Hyper Offense team simply because it hits just that much harder. Terrakion is also the perfect partner for Lucario, they pretty much have the same checks and counters, and one can weaken those checks and counters for another to sweep: this is the reason Hyper Offense is so effective.

I personally run Bounce BECAUSE they switch out to things like Terrakion that resist it. Most pokemon that resist Bounce are hit hard by Waterfall. Since Gyarados is going to be behind a Substitute, the opponent's Terrakion will have to break the Sub, and then eat a Waterfall and die anyways. If this were any other Gyarados set, I wouldn't run Bounce either because of its gay accuracy and 2 turn charge up. But the fact that it baits in so many pokes that Gyarados can just power through with Waterfall makes it worth it. As well, Gyarados can only make so many Substitutes, Bounce is a great option for getting 12.5% healing instead of 6.25% healing.

Oh yeah. I suggest you don't take any of the changes Bruno suggested, each and every one of them make your team much worse. You need Light Screen, Ice Fang sucks, Hone Claws is not even viable in RU, Expert Belt sucks, and Lucario>>>>>>>>Meinshao offensively, which is the whole point of an HO team.

 

[Truth or Dare]

There's really no point of having Ice Punch nowadays though. Every good player is running Gliscor with 216 Speed, so they'll beat you anyways. As well, no good player sends in Jellicent against Conkeldurr, since Jellicent doesn't even have good enough physical defense to take an unboosted Payback, much less a Guts boosted one. You want to win against good players, not take advantage of players who you'd probably beat anyways. Besides, Terrakion is a better option than Conkeldurr for a Hyper Offense team simply because it hits just that much harder. Terrakion is also the perfect partner for Lucario, they pretty much have the same checks and counters, and one can weaken those checks and counters for another to sweep: this is the reason Hyper Offense is so effective.

I personally run Bounce BECAUSE they switch out to things like Terrakion that resist it. Most pokemon that resist Bounce are hit hard by Waterfall. Since Gyarados is going to be behind a Substitute, the opponent's Terrakion will have to break the Sub, and then eat a Waterfall and die anyways. If this were any other Gyarados set, I wouldn't run Bounce either because of its gay accuracy and 2 turn charge up. But the fact that it baits in so many pokes that Gyarados can just power through with Waterfall makes it worth it. As well, Gyarados can only make so many Substitutes, Bounce is a great option for getting 12.5% healing instead of 6.25% healing.

Oh yeah. I suggest you don't take any of the changes Bruno suggested, each and every one of them make your team much worse. You need Light Screen, Ice Fang sucks, Hone Claws is not even viable in RU, Expert Belt sucks, and Lucario>>>>>>>>Meinshao offensively, which is the whole point of an HO team.

I guess you do make sense ill try that sub DD gyarados out seems quite effective. I will change ice punch to crunch (which i had before people told me to change) and i will defiantly try double dance terrakion seems very good. Also i know a jellicent wouldn't come in on conkeldurr but conkeldurr comes in when you predict a staus which no other pokemon in my team can take.

 

[New World Order]

I guess you do make sense ill try that sub DD gyarados out seems quite effective. I will change ice punch to crunch (which i had before people told me to change) and i will defiantly try double dance terrakion seems very good. Also i know a jellicent wouldn't come in on conkeldurr but conkeldurr comes in when you predict a staus which no other pokemon in my team can take.

With Hyper Offense, you shouldn't be switching, you should be forcing your opponent to switch with constant offensive pressure. If played correctly, they wont even have a chance to status. Currently, the only pokemon that Jellicent can come in against is Scizor. Jellicent obviously has no business against Salamence or Lucario, Terrakion can OHKO with +2 Stone Edge Gyarados can stop status with Substitute. If you see Jellicent in team preview, just simply don't send out Scizor. That way Jellicent wont have a chance to Will-o-Wisp anyone.

 

[Truth or Dare]

With Hyper Offense, you shouldn't be switching, you should be forcing your opponent to switch with constant offensive pressure. If played correctly, they wont even have a chance to status. Currently, the only pokemon that Jellicent can come in against is Scizor. Jellicent obviously has no business against Salamence or Lucario, Terrakion can OHKO with +2 Stone Edge Gyarados can stop status with Substitute. If you see Jellicent in team preview, just simply don't send out Scizor. That way Jellicent wont have a chance to Will-o-Wisp anyone.

Yea switching in HO is kind of stupid so ive made the changes to gyarados, lucario and given conkeldurr the boot for a shiny new terrakion.

 

[Truth or Dare]

Do you think a cloyster set could replace gyarados something like this.

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell

244 Spe EVs for out speeding choice scarf Terrakion after a boost.

 

[mazzulmaz]

Skarmory says hi.

 

[Truth or Dare]

I was thinking of maybe changing Lucario maybe this set.

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Hidden Power [Ice]

He would give a helpful ground stab as well as a easyer way to take on sand teams with his sand force.