First Uber Sun Team; Be as critical as you see fit

[klawehtgod]

So I've been playing Pokemon Showdown for a while now, and have 1600+ on several ladders, but have yet to get into Ubers. So this is my first attempt, a Sun team. I have played two battles, and won them both. Links for both provided:


First Battle: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-57719582


Second Battle: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-57721078


I'm looking for any help at all, as I have almost no experience with Ubers, and relied heavily on Smogon's advice. But specifically, I would really appreciate:

1) a better Sun-powered sweeper to replace Blaziken, who is demonstrably too frail,

2) A rapid spinner, especially one that either can take advantage of Sun or has a second support capacity,

3) Any Pokemon that are obvious threats that I have failed to account for, and

4) Any honest compliments, because I believe that praise can be just as useful as criticism when anything comes under scrutiny.


Without Further Ado:

Groudon @ Lum Berry

Ability: Drought

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

Impish Nature (+Def, - SpAtk)

- Stealth Rock

- Stone Edge

- Thunder Wave

- Earthquake


The obvious choice for the Sun team lead. Drought does its work, and then 90% of the time, out comes stealth rock. I could use Thunder Wave right off the bat if I outspeed their lead, and will not be hit super effectively, but that's not a highly likely scenario, and stealth rock is practically obligatory from what I understand. the EVs help Groudon act as the physical side of my Groudon-Blissey defensive core. Spreading a little paralysis can only benefit, and EdgeQuake coverage is a very nice things to have indeed. Lum Berry is not something an opponent can really predict, so anyone trying outspeed and sleep Groudon to start the game (looking at you, Darkrai), will be unpleasantly surprised.


The main problem I have here is that I may be asking Groudon to do too much. I crammed a lot into this set: Weather set-up, status removal, hazard set-up, status spreading, and dual coverage moves, and physical defensive wall. I'm worried I will end up over-relying on Groudon, and missing it too much if it gets knocked out early. I think that a potential spinner somewhere on the team that could also do any one of these things would take the pressure of off Groudon and really balance out the team.

Blissey @ Leftovers

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef

Calm Nature (+SpDef, -Atk)

- Wish

- Protect

- Toxic

- Heal Bell


Part two of the defensive core of this team. Everyone knows Blissey sponges special hits like a champ. This is a classic Cleric set for Blissey. Natural Cure removes it's own status upon switching out - very clutch, as it prevents the need for a lum berry or having to waste a heal bell on itself. Wish passes boatloads of HP to everyone else. Protect scouts opposing movepools and provides extra turns for toxic. Toxic is Toxic. Softboiled would be extraneous here because Wish + Protect heals the same. Nature and EVs are all about being a Special Wall. Leftovers is very helpful here.


I'm honestly not worried about picking up a Taunt. It's distribution covers a whopping seven Uber tier pokemon (four of which are Deoxys, and one is Mewtwo, which I find hard to believe would ever give up a slot for Taunt), and the metagame seems to prefer to take a set up turn instead of Taunting. If this assumption is incorrect, and Taunt is a legitimate threat in Ubers, that is something I would very much like to know.

Blaziken @ Life Orb

Ability: Speed Boost

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

Adamant Nature

- Protect

- Swords Dance

- Hi Jump Kick

- Blaze Kick


My first of three sweepers. Speed Boost is obvious, as it is the only reason Blazikein can dabble in Ubers at all. Life Orb maxes out potential damage while allowing use of a strong duel-STAB, and the recoil seems negligible, as with no defensive investment, any shot Blaziken takes is a OHKO. The EVs are self-explanatory. Adamant nature is preferred to Jolly here, because honestly if Blaziken is going to actually get to attack anything, it WILL have +2 speed, which is more than enough, and it needs to hit as hard as possible. Protect is necessary, as not only does it provide a guaranteed +1 speed, but it also scouts a little movepool from my opponent. The problem here is that they will probably see this coming, and use their turn to not attack, but I can't really afford to take that risk. The dual kicks provide dual-STAB. If there is an opening, Swords Dance will be used, making Blaziken very dangerous indeed. I use Blaze Kick over Flare Blitz, because between that recoil and Life Orb recoil, Blaziken will kill itself after three attacks, especially if it starts with stealth rock damage.


Note: If I could find a place for Rapid Spin on this team, then Blaziken could switch in with no hazards to worry about, run Focus Sash, and then 1st turn Swords Dance, 2nd turn Protect, and then +2 Atk, +2 Spd probably wins me the game.

Venusaur @ Life Orb

Ability: Chlorophyll

EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spd

Modest Nature (+SpAtk, -Atk)

- Growth

- Giga Drain

- Sludge Bomb

- Hidden Power Fire


The team's second sweeper, and the one most able to abuse the Sun. The number one choice for a Chlorophyll user does not disappoint. EVs are classic sweeper, and Life Orb is the obvious choice for power, as any recoil is healed off by Giga Drain, which acts as both powerful STAB attack and a great recovery move, which is gold for a sweeper. The dual-STAB has great coverage, and matches with Blaziken's dual-STAB really well. Hidden Power Fire OHKOs Ferrothorn and Shaymin-Sky, and is almost always a surpise, despite it's usefulness. No one doubts the benefits of the +2 SpAtk Venusaur gets from Growth under Sun. Modest Nature maximizes power. Overall a pretty straight forward set. Solar Beam is avoided in case the Sun is taken away, and because Giga Drain doubles as Recovery.


I like this set as is. If there's anything you see differently, let me know.

Mewtwo @ Life Orb

Ability: Unnerve

EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Psystrike

- Fire Blast

- Aura Sphere

- Recover


In my opinion, if your team does not include Mewtwo, you either are not playing Ubers, or you have made a mistake. I demonstrated this pretty clearly in the first battle link I posted.


Mewtwo is the final sweeper, and I plan to have him step in mid- to late-game and mop up whatever's left. Aura Sphere is great due to perfect accuracy, and is used for everything it hits Super-Effectively. Fire Blast is boosted by the Sun, 85% accuracy is enough for me, and is used for everything it hits Super-Effectively, especially that jerk Ferrothorn. Psystrike kills everything else. And if for some odd reason, Mewtwo takes damage that Blissey didn't already wish away, Recover is there to the rescue. EVs and Nature are obvious. Unnerve's prevention of berry use is great, especially for the all-annoying Custap Wobbuffet. This is (along with Groudon) the only pokemon I will not consider removing from my team. I will however listen to advice on the the moveset.


If I had any question here, it would be whether to replace Recover with Ice Beam. The fantastic coverage this moveset would have with Ice Beam is unquestionable, but I have reservations about a pokemon that will stay in and can take a hit having no way to heal itself, and having to rely on Blissey is a three turn affair that ruins offensive momentum. However, if you feel you can convince me that the Super-Effective coverage is worth it, I'm all ears.

Palkia @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Pressure

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Modest Nature (+SpAtk, - Atk)

- Spacial Rend

- Hydro Pump

- Thunderbolt

- Fire Blast


Palkia operates as my premier revenge killer. With Choice Scarf attached and 252 Spd EVs, it basically outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame, Thus the Timid nature should not be necessary. Palkia also has the SpAtk EVs and Nature to land a OHKO with any of it's four attacks, and then, depending on the next opponent, outspeed them for super-effective damage, or switch out for one of its defensive teammates. Spacial Rend is the dragon-STAB of choice, due to 100% accuracy, and Draco Meteor's horrendous -2 drop in SpAtk, which I deem unacceptable. It also mediates the need for Ice Beam, which would have been for largely for use against Dragons anyway. Hydro Pump is the water-STAB of choice because, for me, the 80% accuracy is just above the line of acceptability, and Surf just does not hit hard enough with Water's power drop thanks to Sunlight. Thunderbolt is wonderful for all the flying types that inhabit Ubers, And finally Fire Blast rounds out what is spectacular coverage (9 types hit for Super Effective damage, neutral damage for the other 9).


If you disagree with the moveset for Nature here, those are definitely things I am willing to change, but keep in mind the purpose here is for Palkia to revenge kill, not sweep.



That's my team. Again, any and all advice is highly appreciated. And if you feel that I can be of help to you in any way, please don't hesitate to ask.


Smogon Username: Klawehtgod

 

[blitzlefan]

I don't have much time so here it is

Groudon
Thunder Wave > Dragon Tail

Palkia
Modest > Timid
Thunderbolt > Thunder

Mewtwo
Recover > Ice Beam

Blaziken
Adamant > Jolly
Blaze Kick > Flare Blitz

Weak to EK Arceus if Groudon is down, so I'd suggest Venusaur > Arceus-Ghost (Support set could be useful but CM is always strong)
Blissey is pretty meh in Ubers you may want to test other stuff out (Read: Banded Ho-oh) with Rapid Spin / Defog support

 

[Shaymin 492]

Venu sucks in ubers imo, don't use it, and you probably need a spinblocker in gen 5. I'd say use CM Ghostceus, as blitzlefan suggested. You're really weak to EKiller, so fit dragon tail on somewhere. Eviolite Chansey is better than Blissey in almost all aspects and you're not running any attacking moves so probably change that. Scarf Palkia in sun isn't a very good idea since it's weak af, but I have no clue what to replace it with. Recover Mewtwo isn't is sort of weird because Mewtwo is pretty frail, use Ice Beam instead. You could use Forretress as a spinner, it would take pressure off Groudon since it can spin, and set up SR and Spikes. That's all I can think of for now, but really good first team (mine sucked).

 

[Chicharino]

Ok, so first of all, you should probably change Groudons item to Leftovers, and change Palkias nature back to Timid (I used to have the same reasoning as you haha, its like, I have a Choice Scarf, why do I need the extra speed?), Well Palkia cares much more about the Extra Speed than it does about the bit of power, with a Timid Nature it allows you to revenge +1 RayRay and Genesect. Since Palkia is going to be used to check Kyogre, change TBolt to Thunder, as it will be raining when Kia is sent out (and Tbolt is laughably weak in ubers lol). Also, your team woul really like some Ekiller checks/counters. You said you wanted a spinner,
So foretress is it for you. It can stall out Ekiller w/Toxic + Pain Split, as well as set up Spikes, AND rapid spin hazards of your field as well. Since you said you wanted a sun sweeper other than Blaziken, which is frail, and since you need an Ekiller check. I would recommend the following.

Blaziken --> Ho-Oh (You could try out band, IT otk's most choiced Kyogre w/Brave Bird if you predict the switch in, is much, much bulkier, plus Band Sacred Fire in the Sun = gg no re), but only use it if you are skilled at getting rocks of your field and know how to manage with spinblocking.
Vena --> Ghostceus (not only does it check EKiller, but is also a very potent sweeper late game)
Blissey --> Foretress (If you decide to go Ho Oh, this will provide the spinning needed to use it, and also is a great physical wall)
Also, as your team is now, if you don't decide to change anything, you are really EK weak, so i wud go Dtail/Roar > TWave on Groudon.
And about Mewtwo on recovery vs ice beam, go ice beam. Any decent player will send in a scarfed pokemon anyways, which won't give you the chance to use recover (or you'll get attacked by priority), against a decent player, you'll appreciathe the coverage much more than the recovery, cuz as said, a good player wont give you the chance. Also, get rid of the 4Sp. Def on Mewtwo (that's asking to get Gene Raped), put the extra EVs in Def, or Hp, but never in Sp.Def, as putting them in Sp.Def will give Gene the attack boost which allows it to To OTK your mewtwo.

 

[ogasian]

Imo, Xatu over a spinner, since it's ridiculously hard to spin in Ubers and xatu is so easy to use.
Xatu@Light Clay
252 hp/252 spdef/4 def
Careful

Heat Wave
Light Screen
Reflect
Roost

Basically, the only thing it can't prevent from setting up Rocks is LO Dialga, a rarity anyways. (Btw Lo Dialga is a boss) Yeah, definetly use Band Ho Oh, or at least LO sub roost.

 

[Donkey]

Basically, the only thing it can't prevent from setting up Rocks is LO Dialga, a rarity anyways. (Btw Lo Dialga is a boss) Yeah, definetly use Band Ho Oh, or at least LO sub roost.

You forgot about:

• Mold Breaker Excadrill
• Heatran
• Tyranitar
• Landorus-T or Groudon who win the 50/50 of whether you predict Stone Edge or Stealth Rocks
• Support Arceus
• Ice Beam Deo-A
• Niche leads: ex. Terrakion/Garchomp

 

[RotomPoison]

What the hell?

1. Why does Groudon not have Dragon Tail > Stone Edge

2. Why does Blaziken have Blaze Kick (I understand now Life Orb is less of a problem but just make it Leftovers, you need the power from Flare Blitz)

3. Why is there a Venusaur on my screen

4. Recover Mewtwo is lol

5. Timid Palkia and Thunder not Thunderbolt

blitzlefan, you might have confused him. New thing you're changing > Old thing

 

[Sweep]

What the hell?

1. Why does Groudon not have Dragon Tail > Stone Edge

2. Why does Blaziken have Blaze Kick (I understand now Life Orb is less of a problem but just make it Leftovers, you need the power from Flare Blitz)

3. Why is there a Venusaur on my screen

4. Recover Mewtwo is lol

5. Timid Palkia and Thunder not Thunderbolt

blitzlefan, you might have confused him. New thing you're changing > Old thing

"So I've been playing Pokemon Showdown for a while now, and have 1600+ on several ladders, but have yet to get into Ubers."

He's new to Ubers and while this team certainly needs work, it's a helluva lot better than most RMT's posted by newer players. And Venusaur and Recover Mewtwo are usable, Recover is nice against stall because Toxic Spikes+LO recoil can wear it out quickly.

 

[RotomPoison]

"So I've been playing Pokemon Showdown for a while now, and have 1600+ on several ladders, but have yet to get into Ubers."

He's new to Ubers and while this team certainly needs work, it's a helluva lot better than most RMT's posted by newer players. And Venusaur and Recover Mewtwo are usable, Recover is nice against stall because Toxic Spikes+LO recoil can wear it out quickly.

Missed that then, I just skipped right to the team itself. The problem with Venusaur and Recover Mewtwo is that means if you're running CM Recover Mewtwo your coverage is complete shit, and no CM means why don't you use just use Latios. Venusaur is weak, doesn't have the best defenses, bad offensve typing, has to set up to do any damage, and out of its STABs has the now weaker HP Fire and Earthquake which means you have to split EVs and it's still weak.

 

[Donkey]

Missed that then, I just skipped right to the team itself. The problem with Venusaur and Recover Mewtwo is that means if you're running CM Recover Mewtwo your coverage is complete shit, and no CM means why don't you use just use Latios. Venusaur is weak, doesn't have the best defenses, bad offensve typing, has to set up to do any damage, and out of its STABs has the now weaker HP Fire and Earthquake which means you have to split EVs and it's still weak.

I think Sweep is an experienced enough player to know the downsides of using Venusaur. Also, you're simply wrong when it comes to Recover Mewtwo. I'm not sure if you knew but Latios doesn't learn SUN BOOSTED FIRE BLAST which is a fucking huge reason to use Life Orb, 3 attacks, Recover Mewtwo on Sun. It checks a ton of CM Arceus forms and in general just smashes stall. However, I would suggest Ice Beam > Aura Sphere since Aura Sphere and Fire Blast are redundant while sun is up.

Also, if you didn't notice by the sets that he was new, then you probably have some sort of serious mental disability. How many experienced players use Venusaur????? There is no need to be rude to an obviously BRAND NEW player and drive him away from playing the tier.