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BW Ubers First Ubers Team

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Donkey, May 24, 2013.

  1. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction

    Hello Smogon. For those who do not know me, this is my second RMT on the Smogon forums and my first RMT ever of an offensive team. Unfortunately, this team is not a NU team, so if you come to the Ubers RMT sub-forum to luvdisc such teams you are in the wrong thread. Back to the team - previous to the addition of BW2 and this year's SPL I was convinced that stall was the superior playstyle in the Ubers metagame. I viewed stall as an ultimate display of skill; what is more impressive than slowly whittling the opponent’s ubers to death with a seemingly harmless yet invincible OU Pokémon? However, stall has an inherent flaw that puts it at an immediate disadvantage to offense. Defensive teams are made specifically to counter offensive teams while offensive teams are made to simply win by powering through teams with strong combinations of Pokémon. Not to mention, constant defensive walling leaves you vulnerable to critical hits. It only takes one critical hit to remove a Pokémon integral to a defensive core for the battle to be over. With the metagame shifting towards offense after the addition of BW2, which brought Specs Kyurem-W, Scarf Genesect, Soul Dew Lati@s, and Regenerator Ho-Oh, it becomes harder to build and riskier to run stall. I decided to try my hand at offense as I realized how powerful it is in the current metagame.

    I would describe the playstyle of this team as bulky offense. This team attempts to have multiple checks to every threat in the ubers metagame, whether the checks are defensive or offensive, or in many cases, both. I aimed to strike the balance between beating checks through both offensive and defensive measures when building this team.


    Team Building Process

    After a few weeks of building offensive teams and using them in the SPL, I came up with the first version of this team that I used against Faint which featured Deoxys-S in place of Groudon and Latios in place of Palkia. I won the game but still felt that there was room for improvement on the team. Eventually, Deoxys-S got replaced with Groudon to give the team an easier time vs weather based sweepers (Excadrill, Kabutops) and Latios got replaced with Palkia to put more pressure on Calm Mind Arceus forms and defensive Pokémon such as Ferrothorn and Jirachi. When building the first version of the team, I started with the synergistic combination of Darkrai/Arceus-Fight and added Pokémon to cover their weaknesses. Unfortunately, I built this team a long time ago and consequently won’t be able to go into further specifics of the building process.


    The Team

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Tiny (Groudon) @ Earth Plate
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Lava Plume
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Moveset:

    • Stealth Rock - A staple on most uber teams for (hopefully) obvious reasons. On this team specifically, it has strong synergy with Genesect's U-Turn and helps to wear down scarf users, levitate users, and flying types such as Ho-Oh and Lugia which become problematic if they can repeatedly switch in with no deterrent. Stealth Rock also helps to justify Giratina-O's role as a spinblocker on the team.
    • Lava Plume - A slightly more unconventional move. It both pressures support steel types such as Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory by threatening to OHKO, and pressures Pokémon that don’t mind tanking fire attacks with its 30% burn chance. Common switch-ins to Groudon such as bulky Arceus forms, Giratina-O, Gliscor, and Landorus-T are more reluctant to switch in once the move has been revealed in fear of the burn.
    • Earthquake - Self-explanatory. A powerful stab move, it punishes CM Arceus forms for setting up while dealing massive damage to any Pokémon brave enough to switch in.
    • Stone Edge - Also self-explanatory. Allows Groudon to act as a backup check to both Rayquaza and Ho-Oh, while also giving means of chip damage on Giratina-O and the Lati@s twins.

    EVs and role on team:

    I max attack and speed with a Jolly nature to ensure I have an early and late game advantage over my opponent. If the enemy team leads with Dialga, I can confidently send in Groudon and then play accordingly with the knowledge that I will most likely outspeed. Running max speed also reveals if the enemy Kyogre is scarf or specs. Investment in attack allows Groudon to wall break and prevent Calm Mind users to set up; late game, Groudon is bulky enough to take a hit from some CM Arceus forms (depending on how much damage Groudon has taken previously) and hit back for near 50% damage.

    Groudon acts as both a wall breaker and pseudo-wall on this team. It is my tertiary defensive wall behind Arceus-Fight and Giratina-O. Notably, Electric immunity makes Zekrom much less threatening by stopping Volt Switch momentum, while OHKOing back if Zekrom or other dragons decide to attack. Groudon's ability to take hits and hit back harder makes it invaluable for the team. This is in keeping with the theme of the team; the ability to both wall some offensive threats and still maintain an offensive presence. If Groudon has to, it can take hits from Arceus-Normal, Excadrill, Garchomp, Ho-Oh, Kabutops (in sun), Rayquaza, Salamence, and Zekrom, then OHKO back or cripple with damage. If I am in the lead, it is also sometimes advantageous to go for Lava Plume burn vs certain Pokémon like Arceus-Normal or Landorus-T.

    Additionally, Drought, while seemingly not very important for this team, nullifies the threats that come with rain and sand. After prior damage on Giratina-O, a well-played Excadrill or Kabutops can tear through the team's core.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Shadow Fiend (Darkrai) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Bad Dreams
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dark Void
    - Thunder Wave
    - Dark Pulse
    - Focus Blast

    Moveset:
    • Thunder Wave - The only reason I use this move is in the case that I Dark Void the wrong thing and need to cripple an enemy sweeper. It is a last resort for CM Arceus forms that is also a nice surprise for Genesects after I use Dark Void.

    EVs and role on team:

    This is a purely offensive Darkrai set that shines in the late game. With little to no survivability, this set is strongest when the enemy team is weak and enemy scarfers are removed or crippled. The defensive and offensive synergy of the team helps achieve this situation - Stealth Rock wears down enemy scarfers and forces fewer switches, while Palkia and Arceus-Fight are able to wall some threats and offensively threaten others. For example, Kyogre and Dialga are both respectively walled by Palkia and Arceus-Fight and then pressured out by Spacial Rend and Judgment. Since there are not many things that want to switch into Palkia or Arceus-Fight (especially one with a surprise Stone Edge and Toxic), I gain momentum and a small advantage over my opponent. I then capitalize on these situations in my next move through prediction. A double switch to Genesect knowing a Dialga or Kyogre will be forced out means free chip damage and an advantageous switch in after a U-turn. Darkrai is excellent for killing steels, ghosts, and defensive walls, especially if Void is available.

    With the capability to beat some of the largest threats to offensive teams, specifically CM Arceus forms such as Ghost or Steel, Darkrai's offensive presence is not only apparent in the late game, but also functions as a safety net early on. I have the option to offensively overpower Arceus-Ghost with Darkrai rather than stalling it out with Arceus-Fight (which is not very reliable).

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Morphling (Palkia) @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Fire Blast
    - Hydro Pump
    - Dragon Tail

    Moveset:
    • Dragon Tail – Dragon Tail is great to phase unsuspecting boosting Arceus forms or bulky Pokémon like Dialga. I prefer it over Thunder since in most cases I should have sun active.

    EVs and role on team:

    Once again, this is a purely offensive set as evident in the EVs. Lustrous boosted Spacial Rend hits everything hard while Hydro Pump hits everything harder. Ferrothorn and Jirachi can’t switch in on Dragon attacks unless they want to eat a Fire Blast. If the team doesn’t have an Arceus-Grass, Chansey, or six faster Pokémon, chances are that Palkia will do work.

    Palkia is also an excellent Kyogre check and deterrent. Most assume that I carry Thunder and play accordingly; although henceforth I imagine they will play differently. Palkia’s versatility allows it to be a massive playmaker for the team. Switch in on a Kyogre Water Spout, then predict the opponents switch for either a KO or near KO.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Magnus (Arceus-Fighting) @ Fist Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Judgment
    - Stone Edge
    - Recover


    Moveset:

    I refer you to Trickroom’s description of this set: _. Toxic and Stone Edge are incredible moves that account for Arceus-Fight’s weakness. Unfortunately, in most games one or the other won’t come into play (I used this set 3-4 times in SPL and never had to use Stone Edge once), yet in the games that it does come into play you will orgasm.

    EVs and role on team:

    Arceus-Fight is my primary defensive wall that helps beats Pokémon that this team would normally have trouble with such as Dialga, Ferrothorn, Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Steel, etc, while also being able to wall Palkia in sun, Rayquaza (to a degree), among other threats like Ekiller (which is incredibly overrated and not very threatening). The lack of Ice Beam means that Gliscor and Landorus-T become more threatening, but Gliscor will not switch in on Arceus-Fight until Stone Edge has been revealed.

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    Spectre (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Flamethrower
    - Bug Buzz
    - Ice Beam

    Moveset:

    Since this team was made before the addition of Blaze Kick, I’m not sure whether or not I’d change it to a physical set or keep it special if I was still using this team. A major reason for using the special set was +1 sun boosted Flamethrower. Regardless, the main reason why I chose special Genesect simply because it is better at cleans. +1 boosted Bug Buzz compared to a +1 boosted U-turn is much better at ending games. Additionally, since most players expect a physical set they ev their Pokémon (Especially Mewtwo, CM Arceus Grass, Arceus Normal) such that Genesect will receive the special attack boost.

    EVs and role on team:

    Standard role of a Genesect: momentum builder, revenge killer, sweeper, cleaner, dragon resist, normal resist. Special Genesect means I am more vulnerable to CM Arceus Ghost, since I cannot simply chain Iron Head flinch it and other Arceus forms to death like some other users. However, Darkrai and Arceus-Fight are enough to handle most CM Arceus forms.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Bane (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Earthquake
    - Magic Coat
    - Dragon Tail

    Moveset:
    • Magic Coat – I fucking love Magic Coat. It is almost good enough to be a necessity for every team. I run Magic Coat in the “Substitute slot” of the seemingly now standard Giratina-O set that my buddy Kyle first used. Magic Coat is excellent to play mind-games with Deoxys-S leads. After a few turns, if Deoxys-S starts attacking, I can simply 2hko with Shadow Sneak and prevent hazards completely. A good player won’t usually let this happen but I have won games because of this move. Vs a Deoxys-S, A, or D with Spikes instead of Stealth Rock, this move is incredible since they cannot stall by spamming Rocks. Now if only Giratina learned Taunt…

    EVs and role on team:

    Giratina-O is a bulky wall with an offensive presence. It is my secondary defensive wall. As a spinblocker with Ground immunity, it is Sand Stream Excadrill’s worst nightmare. Giratina is also an excellent check to Arceus-Ground, Groudon, Kabutops, Landorus-T, and Terrakion. His Dragon typing makes him a viable alternative to wall a few Surfs or Bolt Strikes if need be. Earthquake gives a method to beat steel types like Dialga, Excadrill, Heatran, and Jirachi, which speaks to Giratina’s wall breaking ability. Finally, Giratina is a spinblocker – it never hurts to have a reliable way to keep up Stealth Rocks.

    Notable Threats:

    Ho-Oh (Life Orb without Stealth Rocks up) – A max HP Ho-Oh can indefinitely wall Darkrai, Genesect and Giratina-O assuming I slept another Pokémon. Ho-Oh will generally fall prey to Arceus-Fight’s Stone Edge, but in the worst case scenario I will have to sacrifice Groudon.

    Kyogre (Special Defensive) – This Kyogre set thoroughly walls my team. I pressure it with Palkia and hope they switch out in fear of Thunder, eventually force a rest and make sure it doesn’t wake up by phasing it out. This set on a stall team can be threatening.

    Mewtwo – Mewtwo can near freely switch in on Arceus-Fight unless I get a well predicted toxic off, and can also switch in on Darkrai, Groudon, and Palkia after I KO a Pokémon on the opposing team. I rely on U-Turn momentum, Shadow Sneak, and Stealth Rock to deal with this Pokémon.

    Scarf Darkrai – fuck this Pokémon

    Conclusion:

    Thanks for reading and I hope that you enjoyed the team. I will update with a threat list as soon as I get around to it. Feel free to rate, luvdisc, use this team against NU teams, etc. After UPL I plan to quit pokes, so this will be my last RMT.

    I also recommend not using this team on the PS ladder until it is normal again.

    Importable:
    Show Hide

    Tiny (Groudon) @ Earth Plate
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Lava Plume
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Shadow Fiend (Darkrai) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Bad Dreams
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dark Void
    - Thunder Wave
    - Dark Pulse
    - Focus Blast

    Morphling (Palkia) @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Fire Blast
    - Hydro Pump
    - Dragon Tail

    Magnus (Arceus-Fighting) @ Fist Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Judgment
    - Stone Edge
    - Recover

    Spectre (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Flamethrower
    - Bug Buzz
    - Ice Beam

    Bane (Giratina-O) @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Earthquake
    - Magic Coat
    - Dragon Tail
  2. Donkey

    Donkey

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    threatlist
  3. MAJISTRATE

    MAJISTRATE formerly PROBLEMS

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    Sub Shaymin-S
  4. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
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    I was considering putting this in the "notable threats" section since if it sets up it can be threatening. I usually end up sacrificing something to make sure it doesn't set up, make sure I have rocks up, and play cautiously.
  5. dice

    dice follow @smogmogu for hot content
    is a Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

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    Messages:
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    Hello.

    Opposing Fighteus is an inherent weakness from the lack of Lati@s now; however, that is somewhat mitigated by Thunder Wave Darkrai and Toxic on your own Arceus, but is still extremely problematic. As with most offensive teams, offensive Lati@s and Mewtwo get practically a free KO every time they switch-in to your Groudon or Fighteus but there really is not much you can do. Surprisingly, your team lacks an actual Stallbreaker with no Nasty Plot on Darkrai, and it seems like SpDef Kyogre is a bitch in general when coupled with something like a Gliscor to wall Groudon. Obviously Ho-Oh is a lot more threatening now due to the fact your team is posted and Fighteus is known to have Stone Edge, but, even before this, good players usually could try and scout for it. Last but not least, you are rather weak to Scarf Genesect utilizing the move: Iron Head. You could try Latios over Palkia again, but you can't pressure defensive Rain Stall's with Ferrothorn as well since 4 Atk's Latios sucks, although you do become less weak to Fighteus and Mewtwo to an extent (can take a +1 anything). The lack of a Spikes user makes your team as weak to stall as it is while making these offensive Pokemon more threatening, but it is still a solid team and I can't really recommend any changes bar trying Latios again.

    Although we've never really liked each other, good luck in college and whatever you go to do in the future! Have a nice day.
  6. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
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    Thanks for the rate. Arceus-Fight really only becomes a problem in a last mon situation because I likely won't be able to Toxic it immediately. Max speed on my own Arceus-Fight allows me to contest CM Arceus somewhat reliably regardless of it is a last mon situation. The only pokemon Arceus-Fight can set up on is Groudon or Bug Buzz/Ice Beam locked Genesect, else it is phased or crippled. When the opponent has an unrevealed Arceus type, saving Dark Void and making sure to predict well and double switch helps mitigate the threat.

    Giratina-O also acts as a stall breaker, to a degree. Magic Coat forces pokemon like Skarmory and Deo-D to use Recover, while forcing pokemon like Forretress to use Rapid Spin. I can simply double switch during the mind game and build up momentum. To beat stall, I rely on outplaying my opponent rather than running a dedicated stallbreaker (which most stall teams prepare for anyways). If the team doesn't have sp def Ogre or Arceus-Grass, Palkia will generally tear through it.

    I have enough steel resists for Genesect for it not to be a threat. If it tries to speed tie my own Genesect, it will be punished by Flamethrower. If it tries to flinch my Arceus-Fight to death, it probably will since I have bad luck. In reality it only 3hkos IF it gets +atk boost, and melts to Judgment. It will only get a +attack boost on Giratina-O and Palkia, both of which take Iron Heads well.

    Ho-Oh, Latios, and Mewtwo are very threatening but this team can handle them if played well. I'm not too bothered about these pokemon being threats since they have very few counters, which are situational and wouldn't fit on this team anyways.
  7. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    This is a great team and the core is really quite solid. Something you could try to help with the CM Arceus-Fighting and SpD Kyogre weakness is an offensive Latias over Palkia:

    Latias @ Soul Dew
    Timid Nature
    52 HP/204 SAtk/252 Spd
    -Draco Meteor
    -Psyshock
    -HP Fire
    -Recover

    Psyshock beats SpD Kyogre and CM Arceus-Fight (and is better against CM Arceus in general), DM crushes things that don't resist it, HP Fire OHKOes Genesect (a common switch) while still beating Ferro and Forry. You lose a bit of Jirachi insurance, but between Groudon and Giratina-O you should have no trouble against it. Latias's recovery also tends to make it more solid against Kyogre than Palkia most of the time.

    If you want to keep Palkia, I'd still try to fit in Thunder so you can pressure SpD Kyogre more, It'd probably best go over Hydro Pump or DTail. Your call on which one is more important.

    Good luck!
  8. Donkey

    Donkey

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    Messages:
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    Thanks for the rate. Simply put, I'd rather have a slight weakness to Arceus-Fight than a glaring weakness to Arceus-Ghost. Latias or lack of Dragon Tail gives Arceus-Ghost a completely free pokemon to set up with, which is why I changed Latios to Palkia.
  9. Mew72

    Mew72

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    I remember playing this team on the Ubers ladder on PO yesterday. Its a solid team, but I think you may want to invest 4 more EVs in attack on Arceus to ensure the OHKO from 100% health.

    Otherwise, good team, and I wish you luck. [:

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