Flashback - My greatest team ever!

[Stallion]

Hey all,

I’ve been meaning to post this for a long time now, immediately upon my retirement actually but I’ve been really busy until now. Anyway, some of the newer battlers have continued to ask me what the DP metagame was like before all the platinum changes and when Garchomp was still around. In honesty, it was my favourite metagame of all, as despite being pretty centralized due to said Chomp, it is nowhere near as centralized as it is now around Steels. There was more diversity in that metagame and surprise tactics worked even better back then, where as now most truly effective “suprises” or lures have been uncovered or are expected to a degree. Anyway this RMT is a time capsule and a snapshot of a metagame gone by. Out of the thousands of teams on my computer, less then 10 % have been successful. This is probably my most effective team I’ve ever made; out of 100 + battles with it on the ladder and in tournaments, I think my loss count was in single digits. I can’t remember the exact total; I used to count but I don’t know where it is anymore, but this doesn’t take away anything from the team itself. My playstyle was much more prediction heavy back then, and I would often take risks with my choiced pokemon such as Garchomp and Gengar to remove certain threats and to avoid getting set up on, but this team really didn’t need heavy prediction to function well at all with lures and set up sweepers being the features of it. Before I go into the team descriptions, huge thanks must go to Aldaron. He helped develop a few of the EV spreads with me (he came up with Tyranitar’s and helped me tweak Bronzong’s) and was in general of great assistance.

Anyway onto the main show:

Gengar (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Hypnosis
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
---

Back in DP, Hypnosis was 70 % accuracy, making ScarfGar one of the best leads in the metagame. I ran Modest because I was a power freak, although Timid would have come in useful at times (Such as my ST4 match with Warthog where I lost to a 1 % Jolly ScarfChomp -_-). I used it as my SD Lucario check, as well as a multipurpose revenge killer. Tyranitar’s pursuit killed it when I was locked into anything aside from Focus Blast, but the rest of the team is able to take advantage of a Choice locked Tyranitar and punishes the opposition. I miss the days of ScarfGar and really reckon he should be used more even now, but the heavy Dragon/Steel centralization and the trend of bulkier teams have seen it move out of favour of Scarfed Latias and Rotom

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Stone Edge/Hidden Power [Ice]/Crunch
---

Lucario was easily the most consistent Pokemon on my team. The last move was up for grabs, I often used Crunch on the ladder but for tournament matches against certain users like IPL, I’d metagame against them and run Stone Edge or HP Ice (the latter with a naughty nature), as I knew that their Zapdos/Gliscor was the only thing keeping Luke in check. If it was out early game, I often used Stone Edge or Close Combat on the switch to catch Gyara/Zapdos/Scarfed Heatran out, but more often then not this thing came out after Tyranitar lured out the opponents counter for it, allowing me to get an uninhibited sweep of the opposing team.

Garchomp (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Outrage
---

I miss Garchomp and wanted him to come back to OU :(. Despite having 5 less base attack and no intimidate, it is a far superior Choice Bander to Outrage Salamence due to more bulk, a SR resistance and STAB Earthquake.Anyway, back then Yache Berry SDChomp and ScarfChomp were all the rage, and this set took many of its “Counters” by surprise, 2HKOing Gliscor/Hippowdon/Cress with Outrage and Bronzong with Fire Fang (Skarm’s back then ran more defense then special defense so I think it was a 3HKO). More often then not, the opponents Chomp counter was already weakened from Tyranitar so Outrage was a clean KO. Not having Jolly once again cost me at times, but I was a power freak and loved the pure chaos Adamant nature caused.

Tyranitar (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 40 HP/224 Atk/76 Spd/168 SAtk
Brave nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
---

Far and away the star of the show, Tyranitar was my definite MVP. Once again credit to Aldaron for the EV’s, I vaguely remember 76 speed outspeeding Blissey but aside from that I don’t remember at all where these came from. I think 168 special attack was also to guarantee a 2HKO on Bronzong or something lol. Anyway most of the time I used Crunch, as my opponent switched to a counter, creating the Façade that I was choiced. The number of Gliscor’s, Hippowdon’s, Skarmory’s, Heatran’s etc that stayed in on this thing only to be blasted away by the appropriate move was incredible. People do damage calcs more and more often in battles these days, but that does not take away from Tyranitar’s effectiveness and I’m definitely going to try it again sometime if I ever make a new team. Looking back, one thing I would potentially change about it is Earthquake to Stone Edge but it was pretty cool to lure in Salamence’s/Zapdos’ and stuff.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind
---

Self explanatory really, it was a last ditch Lucario counter, my primary weapon to tear apart stall teams and my late game sweeper. Even now, CroCune is simply one of the best Pokemon in the game, albeit really underused. However, with the lack of Trickers it was even better back then, you had better hope that you had a Zapdos/Celebi or you would have a tough time stopping it. Lucario or Tyranitar often lured Zapdos out and Luke also often took out Celebi or damaged it to the point where it couldn’t switch into a Caterpie’s Tackle. Even non Taunt Gyara would be beaten one on one by this if it switched into a Calm Mind. An Ice Beam set would probably have been effective in this metagame due to the abundance of Garchomp, but sleep was ridiculous back then and I needed a sleep absorber so Crocune fit perfectly.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/28 Atk/172 Def/56 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Stealth Rock
- Hypnosis
- Earthquake
---

Mr. utility, I needed a good Dragon resist and a Gyara counter so the strangeness of HP Electric Bronzong was born. The Defensive EVs were made so that it had roughly even defense stats (311, 310) and the rest was dumped in attack. Gyro Ball is a more solid option over Earthquake, but Raikou was semi-common back then (and I used to sac Ttar early) so I was a bit paranoid. If I had my time over I’d probably forego Hypnosis for Gyro Ball but Sleep was just so damn valuable back then, and Hypnosis also lured in and shut down the Skarmory, which actually beat a significant portion of my team.

Anyway there is my team; I hope that it gives all you newer players a decent insight back into an old metagame, as well as the inner workings of my mind when it comes to lures, setting up a sweep and just team building in general. Do not hesitate to comment if you have any questions about the metagame or how the team operates in general, or even suggest changes you would have made to the team in both the DP and Platinum/HGSS metagames if you so wish.

Cheers,

Stallion.

 

[Toxic Torture]

This definitely has the feel and look of a great DP team back in the day, but I really have been trying to figure out ways to adapt it to the current meta-game and the obvious hard part is replacing Chomp as nothing can really replace him, so I will start with the others first. Gengar can be a rather effective anti-lead with moves like taunt, destiny bond, counter, sucker punch, shadow ball (Azelf is the most common lead after all), etcetera. So here is the new set I would propose for gengar.

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Timid/Hasty
252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4 Def/Atk
-Destiny Bond
-Counter
-Taunt
-Shadow Ball/Sucker Punch

Ok, at a glance you are probably thinking the set is pretty crazy or set-up bait, right? Wrong. Taunt shuts down almost every lead because of that great 110 base speed stat, so right away you keep SR off the field and taunt also stops thinks that come in wanting to set-up on you, such as DDTar. Now once things have to attack, the counter/D-bond games come into play. You have no idea how many times people switch in Scizor who gets countered out, and then something slower which gets D-bonded to death putting me at 5-4 with no SR on the field. It does seem weird having both, but it is effective. I have yet to test sucker punch, but a friend suggested it and I believe it could be nice when used properly.

So, one down and 5 to go...or 4 really as Lucario is still a great pokemon in DPPt/HGSS, so he really needs little to no fixing. The same can be said for your Tyranitar and Suicune, as that T-tar set surprises many people with the overwhelming amount of CBTar and DDtar being used, so it is still effective in its role as far as I can tell. CroCune is a fairly timeless pokemon, as so little can take it down without being hurt and a lot of people have been using CM+3 attacks+LO recently, CroCune on the downfall would be to your advantage. Now an easy fix for Bronzong would definitely be Explosion/Gyro Ball over hypnosis, as it is a terrible move with the accuracy drop in the current meta-game. It is really a preference, but I think you would be better to go with gyro ball as losing something that walls so many things with its typing and defensive balance would hurt quite a bit. Another thing would be considering Heatproof>Levitate as so many people expect Levitate they don't even try to use EQ anymore and Heatproof could potentially help taking down something like a Tran with EQ (too lazy to do any calcs on that at this particular moment, sorry). And now the Chomp replacement...despite the fact that you previously had a powerful CBmon there, without the ScarfGar lead you now really could use a revenge killer, so I think that is the way to go for his replacement. Also, I really want to keep the Dragon type there as it can hit everything insanely hard, bar steel types. So that gives a few options. Flygon-same typing as Garchomp, but a ridiculously common and predictable scarfer, and predictability is terrible on a team like this. Dragonite-even with a scarf it could not revenge kill a lot of things like DDMence, so definitely a no. Basically, the best choices are going to end up being Latias and Salamence, unless you really like/need that Ground immunity...I personally prefer the standard Latias set as it revenge kills much more effectively with its speed, the only issue being pursuit bait, but that lets Luke get an easy set-up on choiced pursuits. Anyway I would recommend the standard set.

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Timid/Modest (since you love the power?, timid is better...)
252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Def
-Draco Meteor
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Trick

This allows you to effectively revenge just about anything in today's metagame, only truly being walled by Blissey, which you can hand a scarf to render useless. Anyone who has used this thing can definitely attest for it's effectiveness, especially with the strongest Draco Meteor in OU, nothing too shabby. If you really want a Mence could have potential, but speed ties are never good things, especially if you opt for a +Atk/SpA nature for the power, so I would definitely stick with this.

Anyway, great team. Really took me back to prior meta-game in DP and I just had to try to adapt it, hopefully I did not totally fail as I tried to keep it as similar as possible while still keeping it effective and keeping the style of play you used with it. Also, I probably should have recommended Flygon to replace Chomp to keep it as similar as possible...but I just hate Gon as a scarfer as it has become way to predictable and whatnot. Thanks for posting it Stallion!

 

[M Dragon]

I really like your t-tar, and how it helps chomp and SDluke in their sweep, really nice strategy
I would just make 1 change: Giving Gyro Ball > Hypnosis to zong, as u already have hypnosis gengar (u said u were missing Gyro Ball)

 

[Witnessed]

Hi MS!

Incredible team, lots of classic Pokemon here like the ScarfGar lead. I can't think of much to say other than possibly giving Bronzong HP Ice to deal with the Dragon's better. If you keep your Gengar around long enough you can switch him into a Dragon Dancing Gyarados and OHKO it. Not much of a rate, but just my two cents.

 

[Stallion]

Thanks for the comments guys:

First let me address the deleted comment I saw about Charge Beam vs HP Electric. HP Electric was (I dunno about now) almost a guaranteed 2HKO on Gyarados where as Charge Beam was not. Bronzong was also never a pokemon I kept in for a sweep (especially as my other 5 pokemon are capable of one).

@ Toxic Torture - Thats a pretty interesting set for the current metagame, the only problem is (as you said) Azelf is the most common lead there, and it still outspeeds it and beats you one on one (or you beat it with 1 % HP left). Having said that, I've come up with a similar lead to yours for this current metagame that also allows me to remove Stealth Rock off Bronzong. Whilst Latias is pretty cool (and yes I do actually like Timid lol), the Chomp slot was incredibly important to just tear shit down. Nothing really sets up on my team so a revenge killer isn't needed as much. However, with the removal of Gengar and Chomp, I do need something for Lucario which is truly a pain in the ass. Kind of why I probably wouldn't use this team in a modern context without revamping a few pokes completely. I do agree with your thoughts on Hypnosis though. Levitate is still needed over Heatproof, as I used Zong to switch into ground moves (and I had Chomp/Suicune/Ttar who could switch into Tran). Thanks for your variation though, you did a pretty good job :).

@ M_Dragon - Thanks dude, appreciate it :D. Yeah Gyro Ball over Hypnosis is something I would definitely change about Bronzong if I played with the team now.

@Witness315 - Thanks! Yeah I considered HP Ice, but Gengar is terrible Pursuit bait and I still wanted to have a different option for Gyara. If I did what others suggested and ran Gyro Ball > Hypnosis, I would no longer have that problem as Chomp was 2HKOed (its main target).

Anyway thanks everybody for your rates and comments, much appreciated :)

 

[franky]

I loved D/P as well and CB Chomp was the only set I used and I can attest to its effectiveness back then. You probably are aware that your team won't be taking big advice, but I'm sure you noticed your weakness to SD Lucario with Bullet Punch. Its not the biggest thing, but back then it was quite popular from my experience. I'd probably change Lucario's nature to Jolly, but then again you would miss out on some OHKOes but with Garchomp weakening its common counters it should probably grab the OHKOes. Nice team, 5 stars for me because of good memories.

 

[Stallion]

Hey franky :) I never really saw you around in DP I don't think; what username did you use?

Yeah Bullet Punch was mildly popular then, but despite it beating Gengar, it meant that Garchomp had a much easier time beating Luke. As I said, back then I was a power freak so I would never even consider Jolly but nowadays I'd definitely look into it.

Thanks for the 5 stars as well :).

EDIT: Wow I've actually seen this team (with something over Chomp obv) used on ladder alot suprisingly! If you're one of those users, post your experiences here please :)