UU Florges

Overview
########

With an excellent defensive typing, a great set of resistances, reliable recovery in Synthesis and Wish, and a solid supporting movepool, Florges is a staple in the UU tier. Boasting solid defensive stats, albeit a rather poor base Defense, Florges also has an often-overlooked Special Attack stat and a good offensive STAB move in Moonblast. However, Florges grants a free switch in to several threatening Pokemon such as various Steel- and Fire-types. It is also setup fodder to many common setup sweepers and often falls victim to common stallbreaking tactics such as Trick and Taunt. In addition, Florges's abilities that have no use in the singles format.

Defensive Support
########
name: Defensive Support
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect / Synthesis
move 3: Moonblast
move 4: Aromatherapy / Toxic
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
nature: Calm

Moves
========

Florges is a decent Wish passer and is usually able to reliably heal itself and its teammates with Wish. Protect enables Florges to safely receive its own Wish unless Florges gets phazed out by Roar or Whirlwind; it is also important for scouting movesets and Choiced attackers and grants Florges additional Leftovers recovery. Synthesis can be used over Protect to reliably restore Florges's own health against phazers such as Swampert. Moonblast is reasonably strong coming off of Florges's naturally high Special Attack and is able to OHKO several offensive Pokemon, such as Hydreigon, Mega Absol, and Mienshao. Aromatherapy removes status from Florges and its teammates, while Toxic can be used instead to wear down Fire-type switch-ins and bulkier Pokemon. However, many of Florges's switch-ins are immune to Toxic because of their typing, such as Jirachi and Nidoqueen, or can heal themselves of status, such as Blissey and opposing Florges.

Set Details
========

The given EVs significantly boost Florges's Defense, allowing it to take physical Fighting- and Dark-type attacks well. The Special Defense investment and a Calm nature are used to retain Florges's massive special bulk; alternatively, maximum investment in Defense with a Bold nature can be used to answer to Pokemon such as Krookodile and Haxorus more easily. Leftovers lets Florges heal passively without relying on Wish and works well in tandem with Protect. Neither of Florges's abilities is useful, so either one can be used.

Usage Tips
========

Protect should be used to scout Choiced Pokemon or possibly threatening coverage moves such as Iron Tail on Hydreigon. However, Florges must be wary of Pokemon that can take advantage of the free turn granted by Protect by boosting or using Substitute. If Synthesis is preferred, it should always be used instead of Wish to heal Florges itself.

Team Options
========

This Florges set works best on balanced teams and can make up part of the defensive backbone that these teams require. Pokemon that can check Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-types work well as partners; bulky Water-types can fulfill this role effectively. Swampert in particular is a great teammate as it has great defensive synergy with Florges, provides Stealth Rock, and can phaze setup sweepers that Florges hates, such as CurseLax, while Florges supports Swampert in return with Wish and Aromatherapy. Krookodile is another great teammate that can beat many foes that threaten Florges, such as Nidoqueen, Roserade, and Jirachi. Mega Aggron can also support Florges with Stealth Rock and phazing while standing up to threats such as Crobat, Jirachi, and Mega Beedrill.

Defensive Calm Mind
########
name: Defensive Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Moonblast
move 3: Synthesis
move 4: Aromatherapy
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Calm Mind boosts Florges's Special Attack and Special Defense, letting it eventually break down special walls while also becoming extremely difficult to take down with special attacks. Moonblast is the set's only attack and has a good offensive typing and respectable power with STAB. Synthesis is used to immediately restore half of Florges's HP. Finally, Aromatherapy heals Florges of status and makes Florges extremely hard for defensively oriented teams to take down; it also provides useful cleric support for the rest of Florges's team.

Set Details
========

Maximum investment in Defense and HP along with a Bold nature allows Florges to easily take attacks from the likes of Mienshao, Krookodile, and Crobat; no EVs need to be placed into Special Defense because it will be boosted by Calm Mind. Thus, Florges is very difficult to revenge kill after it sets up thanks to its heavy investment in Defense coupled with its boosted Special Defense. Leftovers provides Florges with passive healing as it boosts, allowing it to use Synthesis less frequently.

Usage Tips
========

This set fits well on bulky offensive teams as a check to various attackers as well as an excellent win condition against stall, which struggles to take Florges down without a setup sweeper of its own, such as CroCune. Florges should not attempt to play around Pokemon such as Toxic Blissey and defensive Arcanine, which can both wear Florges down easily with repeated statuses and attacks, forcing Florges to use up its limited Aromatherapy and Synthesis PP. Instead, Florges should set up on non-boosting special attackers, such as Raikou, Mega Blastoise, and even slower variants of Life Orb Nidoqueen, as well as passive Pokemon, such as Gligar, Vaporeon, and even Gyro Ball Forretress. However, Florges struggles against most opposing setup sweepers, such as CroCune, Calm Mind Cresselia, and CurseLax, and should not attempt to beat them one-on-one.

Team Options
========

Florges needs most Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-types weakened or removed before it can set up safely. Krookodile is an excellent partner, as it can trap Jirachi and Bronzong and check Poison-types such as Roserade and Toxicroak, while appreciating Florges's ability to switch into Fighting-types. Swampert is also a great partner, as it can set up Stealth Rock to pressure opposing Fire-types, check Fire- and Steel-types, and phaze opposing setup sweepers that can beat Florges. Toxic Spikes is a great option to pair with Florges that forces opposing Pokemon such as Vaporeon and Arcanine to recover frequently, granting Florges more setup opportunities.

Other Options
########

Florges has access to a decent coverage move in Psychic, which can defeat Poison-types such as Nidoqueen and Roserade and can deal considerable damage to Fire-types. Florges also has access to Energy Ball to hit Water- and Ground-types harder or can use Hidden Power Fire to deal decent damage to Steel-types barring Empoleon, especially Forretress, which commonly uses Florges's presence on the field to set up entry hazards.

With a naturally high Special Attack, Florges can run an offensive Calm Mind set with two or three attacks. However, its low Speed and poor uninvested physical bulk prevent this set from being too effective. Florges can use a Choice Scarf to get surprise KOs on faster Pokemon such as Crobat and Infernape; a Modest nature should be used over a Timid nature on such a set, as the latter doesn't outspeed anything relevant. Florges can also run Choice Specs with the aforementioned coverage moves to deal major damage to most switch-ins.

Checks & Counters
########

**Pokemon that Resist Fairy**: Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-types can take advantage of common Florges sets and immediately threaten it out. Jirachi resists everything that Florges has except for the extremely uncommon Hidden Power Fire and has no trouble forcing it out with the threat of Iron Head. Other notable Pokemon that have little to fear are Roserade, Nidoking, Mega Beedrill, Entei, Darmanitan, Empoleon, and Mega Aggron.

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Even with maximum investment in Defense, Florges still struggles to switch into many neutral physical attacks, such as those from Choice Band Krookodile and Life Orb Infernape.

**Boosting Pokemon**: RestTalk Pokemon such as Snorlax and Suicune can use Florges as setup fodder, as even Calm Mind variants fail to beat them. Nasty Plot users such as Mega Houndoom, Porygon-Z, and Azelf can all beat support Florges.

**Taunt**: Support Florges cannot perform its role against Taunt users and Calm Mind Florges also falls to some common Taunt users, such as Crobat.

**Phazing**: Phazers such as Swampert and Mega Aggron prevent Wish Florges from passing its Wishes to the desired recipient and Calm Mind Florges from setting up freely. In particular, Sand Stream Hippowdon can phaze Florges while also lowering Synthesis's recovery with its ability.
 
Last edited:
I'd mention that Synthesis can be used over Protect on the first set (specifically if running HB > Toxic) since it allows you to recover health against phazers. While it obviously prefers to switch out and aim for the 20% against MAggron (and SS Hippo to a lesser extent), it's definitely better against other phazers such as RT Cune and Pert. And obviously Wish + Synthesis is one of the biggest perks defensive Florges has over Aromatisse (besides the much higher special bulk).

Will try to look over it better later.
 

IronBullet

Astronomy Domine
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Suggest Specs in other options, packs a pretty big punch and I've seen it used to success. Decent coverage with EB + HP Fire too.

Only other issue was Wish + Synthesis which Ernesto already mentioned and as that has been implemented - QC 1/3
 
Yeah, this looks great so there's not much to say. I'd add Swampert for Team Options in CM for the same reason as the other sets. The Pokemon pert checks (firespam, scarf / sr rachi, etc), and pert also can phaze, which is nice as CM Florges despises other set up sweepers like Cune and Lax.

2/3
 
Ok, this is good stuff but I honestly don't think the Offensive Calm Mind set should be there because it kind of sits in an awkward place where it's not bulky enough uninvested to pull off CM and not fast enough to be too threatening of a sweeper so it just kind of sits in a middle ground area. Other QC members can weigh in on this but IMO it should be removed sorry dod :[

On the positive, you write a good analysis so i'll be happy to give this the 3rd check once everyone has decided on the last set n_n
 
Yeah honestly as I was writing the set up, I realized that it wasn't very good and I couldn't ever see it doing especially well because of pretty much the reasons you listed; it's just too easy to outspeed and OHKO because it's physical bulk is so bad. So yeah I'm totally cool with deleting it lol. I'll wait a little bit just in case anyone else wants to share their opinion on it but I'll let you know if/when I make the change, thanks lochie n_N
 

IronBullet

Astronomy Domine
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Yeah agree with lochie, offensive really isn't effective enough to warrant its own set. Perhaps just a mention in other options would be enough? It can easily fit alongside the CM + 3 attacks suggestion in the first line of oo. Something like "Florges can run a more offensive CM set with Psychic over Aromatherapy. Energy Ball is also an option over Synthesis to hit Water-types harder..." etc
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
On the first set, why not slash Toxic with Wish as well? Wish+Synthesis is still a very viable combo, but Toxic/Moonblast/Synthesis/Aromatherapy lets you still support your team with aromatherapy and have reliable recovery, while having room for Toxic to make you less of a free setup/switch-in, which also seems like a nice option.
 
Alright, I've deleted the offensive set and added it to OO, let me know if there's anything I missed out. I should've realized just how bad that set is, defensive Arcanine 2HKOs with neutral Flare Blitz o.o

Toxic shouldn't be used over Wish because the whole point of that set is to provide Wish support for your team. Toxic is not a good option 9/10 times on Florges because the Steel- and Poison-types that switch into Florges are immune, and other Pokemon that like to take advantage of Florges like SubCM/CroCune aren't bothered by it. Wish is absolutely essential on that set.
 
Last edited:

tehy

Banned deucer.
Toxic shouldn't be used over Wish because the whole point of that set is to provide Wish support for your team.
Then the point could be to give aroma support (and yes, i know you can do both, but you could do that in the case of Aroma being slashed w/toxic too)
Toxic is not a good option 9/10 times on Florges because the Steel- and Poison-types that switch into Florges are immune, and other Pokemon that like to take advantage of Florges like SubCM/CroCune aren't bothered by it. Wish is absolutely essential on that set.
Clearly it's worth using in some fashion if you've slashed it over Aromatherapy. So, what's wrong with a set that provides aromatherapy support as the point and foregoes Wish, as opposed to a set that provides Wish support and foregoes Aromatherapy? Most of this tier's clerics have both wish and heal bell (granbull and maybe roserade are 2 fair examples of ones that lack wish, but still), so it's not like a wish support special wall is rare enough to be a coveted niche (and many of them pass larger wishes)

I guess maybe Wish>>>aroma, in which case *shrugs*

Also if toxic really sucks that bad, let's just get rid of it entirely
 

Kink

it's a thug life ¨̮
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Then the point could be to give aroma support (and yes, i know you can do both, but you could do that in the case of Aroma being slashed w/toxic too)

Clearly it's worth using in some fashion if you've slashed it over Aromatherapy. So, what's wrong with a set that provides aromatherapy support as the point and foregoes Wish, as opposed to a set that provides Wish support and foregoes Aromatherapy? Most of this tier's clerics have both wish and heal bell (granbull and maybe roserade are 2 fair examples of ones that lack wish, but still), so it's not like a wish support special wall is rare enough to be a coveted niche (and many of them pass larger wishes)

I guess maybe Wish>>>aroma, in which case *shrugs*

Also if toxic really sucks that bad, let's just get rid of it entirely
I don't think he's suggesting that it's bad. Dodmen is suggesting that Wish is the crux of the set, and that using it as a Cleric CAN (I stress the word CAN) be used as a toxic staller instead.
 
No, Toxic should never be used over Wish. Personally I would never use Toxic on Florges, but I've slashed it there to let readers know that it is an option if you don't require Aromatherapy support, like King UU said (basically only if you have another cleric). Just because I've slashed it over one of the moves doesn't mean that it should ever be used over the most important move on the set. Support Florges works best on balanced teams with Pokemon like Swampert, Mega Ampharos, Forretress etc that all greatly appreciate Wish support. "What's wrong with a set that provides [only] aromatherapy support" is that that set completely skips over Support Florges's most attractive attribute.

Florges is unique as a cleric and Wish passer in its amazing defensive typing and decent STAB, both of which are something that others like Blissey and Umbreon don't have. It is different from Aromatisse in that even if it goes fully physically defensive, it has enough special bulk to stand up to special attackers such as Mega Blastoise, Mega Ampharos, and Chandelure (all of which destroy Aromatisse). Florges is also faster and more powerful than Aromatisse; with all these reasons taken into account, its niche VERY "coveted" in UU.

Anyway Calloflochie or Ernesto this should be ready for the final check (or more changes) whenever you're ready.
 
You say neither of Florges's abilities are really useful so either can be used, but you have the ability tag anyway o.O

This is a really good analysis and I don't have much to add, except mentioning more partners for the first set, and adding more examples in the last two sections of C&C.

Otherwise this is a pretty thorough analysis, excellent job yet again dodmen :o


3/3
 
Got rid of the ability line and added a couple examples for those two things. Thanks n_n

This is ready for the GP team.
 

GatoDelFuego

The Antimonymph of the Internet
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
dodmen

REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

Overview
########

With an excellent defensive typing, a great set of resistances, reliable recovery in Synthesis and Wish, and a solid supporting movepool, Florges is a staple to the UU tier. Florges received access to Synthesis with the release of ORAS, greatly increasing its versatility. Boasting solid defensive stats, albeit a rather poor base Defense, Florges also has an often overlooked Special Attack and a good offensive STAB move in Moonblast. Florges grants a free switch in to several threatening Pokemon of the tier, however, such as various Steel- and Fire-types. It also is setup fodder to many common setup sweepers and often falls victim to common stallbreaking tactics, such as Trick and Taunt. In addition, Florges has a pair of abilities that have no use in the singles format. Nonetheless, Florges is excellent at performing its role thanks to its many positive attributes.

Defensive Support
########
name: Defensive Support
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect / Synthesis
move 3: Moonblast
move 4: Aromatherapy / Toxic
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
nature: Calm

Moves
========

Florges is a decent Wish passer and is usually able to reliably heal itself and its teammates with Wish. Protect enables Florges to safely receive its own Wish unless Florges gets phazed out by Roar or Whirlwind; it is also important for scouting movesets and Choiced attackers foes and grants it Florges additional Leftovers recovery. Synthesis can be used over Protect to reliably restore its Florges's own health against phazers such as Swampert. Moonblast is reasonably strong coming off of Florges's naturally high Special Attack and is able to OHKO several offensive Pokemon, such as Hydreigon, Mega Absol, and Mienshao. Aromatherapy removes status from Florges and its teammates, while Toxic can be used instead to wear down Fire-type switch-ins and bulkier Pokemon. However, many of Florges's switch-ins are immune to Toxic because of their typing, such as Jirachi and Nidoqueen, or can heal themselves of status, such as Blissey and opposing Florges.

Set Details
========

The given EVs significantly boost Florges's Defense, allowing it to take physical Fighting- and Dark-type attacks well. The Special Defense investment and a Calm nature is used to retain Florges's massive special bulk; alternatively, maximum investment in Defense with a Bold nature can be used to answer to Pokemon such as Krookodile and Zygarde more easily. Leftovers lets Florges heal passively without relying on Wish and works well in tandem with Protect. Neither of Florges's abilities provide it with anything useful, so either one can be used.

Usage Tips
========

Protect should be used to scout Choiced Pokemon or possibly threatening coverage moves such as Iron Tail on Hydreigon. However, Florges must be wary of Pokemon that can take advantage of the free turn granted by Protect by boosting or using Substitute. If Synthesis is preferred, it should always be used to heal Florges itself instead of Wish.

Team Options
========

This Florges set works best on balanced teams and can make up part of a defensive backbone that these teams require. Pokemon that can check Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-types work well as partners; bulky Water-types can fulfill this role effectively. Swampert in particular is a great teammate as it has great defensive synergy with Florges, provides Stealth Rocks, and can phaze setup sweepers that Florges hates such as CurseLax. Florges supports Swampert in return with Wish and Aromatherapy. Krookodile is another great teammate that can beat many foes that threaten Florges, such as Nidoqueen, Roserade, and Jirachi. Mega Aggron can also support Florges with Stealth Rock and phazing while standing up to threats such as Crobat, Jirachi, and Mega Beedrill.

Defensive Calm Mind
########
name: Defensive Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Moonblast
move 3: Synthesis
move 4: Aromatherapy
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Calm Mind boosts Florges's Special Attack and Special Defense, letting it eventually break down specially defensive walls while also becoming extremely difficult to take down with special attacks. Moonblast is the set's only attack and has a good offensive typing and respectable power with STAB. Synthesis is used to immediately restore half of Florges's HP after it gets worn down and is used over Wish as a more reliable form of recovery. Finally, Aromatherapy heals Florges of status and makes Florges extremely hard for defensively oriented teams to take down; it also provides useful cleric support for the rest of Florges's team.

Set Details
========

Maximum investment is placed into physical defense to allow Florges to easily take attacks from the likes of Mienshao, Krookodile, and Crobat. No EVs need to be placed into Special Defense since because it will be boosted with Calm Mind. A Bold nature further increases Florges's Defense. Thus, Florges is very difficult to revenge kill after it sets up thanks to its heavy investment in physical Defense coupled with its boosted Special Defense. Leftovers provides Florges with passive healing as it boosts, allowing it to use Synthesis less frequently.

Usage Tips
========

This set fits well on bulky offensive teams as a check to various attackers as well as an excellent win condition against stall, which struggles to take Florges down without a setup sweeper of its own, such as CroCune. Florges should use Synthesis and Aromatherapy conservatively in order to preserve their limited PP. For this reason, Florges should not attempt to play around Toxic Blissey or defensive Arcanine, which can both wear Florges down easily with repeated statuses and attacks. Instead, Florges should set up on non-boosting special attackers, such as Raikou and Mega Blastoise, and passive Pokemon, such as Gligar and Vaporeon. Most notably, Florges can set up on and beat Gyro Ball Forretress and slower variants of Life Orb Nidoqueen, barring critical hits. However, Florges struggles against most opposing setup sweepers such as CroCune, Calm Mind Cresselia, and CurseLax, and should not attempt to beat them one-on-one.

Team Options
========

Florges needs most Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-types weakened or removed before it can set up safely. Krookodile is an excellent partner as it can trap Jirachi and Bronzong, can check Poison-types such as Roserade and Toxicroak, and appreciates Florges's ability to switch into Fighting-types. Swampert is also a great partner as it can set up Stealth Rock to pressure opposing Fire-types, check Fire- and Steel-types, and phaze opposing setup sweepers that can beat Florges. Toxic Spikes is a great option to pair with Florges that forces opposing Pokemon such as Vaporeon and Arcanine to recover frequently, granting Florges more setup opportunities.

Other Options
########

Florges has access to a decent coverage move in Psychic, which can defeat Poison-types such as Nidoqueen and Roserade and can deal considerable damage to Fire-types. Florges also has access to Energy Ball to hit Water- an Ground-types harder. It can use Hidden Power Fire to do decent damage to Steel-types barring Empoleon, especially Forretress, which commonly uses Florges's presence on the field to set up entry hazards for free.

With a naturally high Special Attack, Florges can run an offensive Calm Mind set with two or three attacks. However, its low Speed and poor uninvested physical bulk prevent this set from being too effective. Florges can use a Choice Scarf to get surprise KOs on faster Pokemon such as X; a Modest nature should be used over a Timid nature since as the latter doesn't outspeed anything relevant. It Florges can also run Choice Specs with the aforementioned coverage moves to deal major damage to most switch-ins.

Checks & Counters
########

**Fairy-type Resistances**: Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-types can take advantage of common Florges sets and immediately threaten it out. Jirachi resists everything that Florges has except for the extremely uncommon Hidden Power Fire and has no trouble forcing it out with the threat of Iron Head. Other notable Pokemon who that have little to fear are Roserade, Nidoking, Mega Beedrill, Entei, Darmanitan, Empoleon, and Mega Aggron.

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Even with maximum investment in Defense, Florges still struggles to switch into many neutral physical attacks such as those from Choice Band Krookodile, Life Orb Zygarde, and Life Orb Infernape.

**Boosting Pokemon**: RestTalkers Pokemon such as Snorlax and Suicune can use Florges as setup fodder as even Calm Mind variants fail to beat them. Nasty Plot users such as Mega Houndoom, Porygon-Z, and Azelf can all beat support Florges.

**Taunt**: Support Florges cannot perform its role against Taunt users and the Calm Mind Florges also falls to some common Taunt users such as Crobat.

**Phazing**: Phazers such as Swampert and Mega Aggron prevent Wish Florges from passing its Wishes to the desired recipient and Calm Mind Florges from setting up freely. In particular, Sand Stream Hippowdon can phaze Florges while also lowering Synthesis's recovery with its ability.

1/2
 
Last edited:

tehy

Banned deucer.
Amcheck

Man i was gonna give some bitch ass general compliment and this does kinda deserve that but lets be honest here

dodmen said:
Mega Aggron can also support Florges with Stealth Rock and phazing while standing up to threats such as Crobat, Jirachi, and Mega Beedrill.
This sentence is the real hero here. No, fuck your local police and firemen. (Seriously, this is a cool way to put it and it was enjoyable to read)

Some fairly big sentence combinations on cm's usage tips, make your own decisions

Btw you missed at least one of Gato's changes (i only saw 1 but i only skimmed his check so, there might be more). Also plz post when you finish a check next time, on a phone i can't see the last poster, but on a computer i usually avoid **last post gp member** threads.

Comments:

Speaking as a user of Aromatisse in RU, I find that the best way to wear it down, outside of phazing, is to hit it, then go to a setup mon on the Wish-either you give up free setup plus another turn to set up/slam the switch-in, or you don't heal. Anyhow, it's worth noting that Synthesis circumvents that, maybe alongside mentioning phazers (though it is mildly complex).

When talking about the two abilities, i cut harder than i usually would, just because the less words spent on such a subject the better. (Worst-case scenario, someone picks the wrong ability! Wait, nevermind.)

When talking about Synthesis on defensive CM, honestly, first off it's just used when you need it, not when worn down or w/e, no need to go specific like that when it could also be to wall a strong attacker or something. Secondly, i don't like justifying its usage over a move that's not even mentioned, despite the fact that wish is so good on the first set and therefore people might expect it, it still kinda comes off as the literary equivalent of talking to yourself. Wish is not slashed or mentioned, it obvsly sucks anyhow, and to top it off by saying that synthesis immediately heals you basically state why it's used instead of wish anyhow.

Checks and counters: phazers crucially stop wishtect florges from healing.

You talk about strong physical fighting types and you switching in; usually checks and counters assume they switched in, and many of those are subpar checks if so

You mention Krook as anti-roserade; i guess it can come in on a sludge and ko back, but it's kind of risky considering grass stab

Overview
########

With an excellent defensive typing, a great set of resistances, reliable recovery in Synthesis and Wish, and a solid supporting movepool, Florges is a staple to in the UU tier. Boasting solid defensive stats, albeit a rather poor base Defense, Florges also has an often overlooked Special Attack and a good offensive STAB move in Moonblast. Florges grants a free switch -in to several threatening Pokemon of the tier, however, such as various Steel- and Fire-(no space) types. It is also is setup fodder to many common setup sweepers and often falls victim to common stallbreaking tactics, such as Trick and Taunt. In addition, Florges has a pair of abilities that have no use in the singles format.

Defensive Support
########
name: Defensive Support
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect / Synthesis
move 3: Moonblast
move 4: Aromatherapy / Toxic
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
nature: Calm

Moves
========

Florges is a decent Wish passer and is usually able to reliably heal itself and its teammates with Wish. Protect enables Florges to safely receive its own Wish unless Florges gets phazed out by Roar or Whirlwind; it is also important for scouting movesets and Choice attackers and grants Florges additional Leftovers recovery. Synthesis can be used over Protect to reliably restore its Florges's own health against phazers such as Swampert. Moonblast is reasonably strong coming off of Florges's naturally high Special Attack and is able to OHKO several offensive Pokemon, such as Hydreigon, Mega Absol, and Mienshao. Aromatherapy removes status from Florges and its teammates, while Toxic can be used instead to wear down Fire-type switch-ins and bulkier Pokemon. However, many of Florges's switch-ins are immune to Toxic because of their typing, such as Jirachi and Nidoqueen, or can heal themselves of status, such as Blissey and opposing Florges.

Set Details
========

The given EVs significantly boost Florges's Defense, allowing it to take physical Fighting- and Dark-type attacks well. The Special Defense investment and a Calm nature is are used to retain Florges's massive special bulk; alternatively, maximum investment in Defense with a Bold nature can be used to answer to Pokemon such as Krookodile and Zygarde more easily. Leftovers lets Florges heal passively without relying on Wish and works well in tandem with Protect. Neither of Florges's abilities are provide it with anything useful, so either one can be used.

Usage Tips
========

Protect should be used to scout Choice Pokemon or possibly threatening coverage moves such as Iron Tail on Hydreigon. However, Florges must be wary of Pokemon that can take advantage of the free turn granted by Protect by boosting or using Substitute. If Synthesis is preferred, it should always be used instead of Wish to heal Florges itself instead of Wish.

Team Options
========

This Florges set works best on balanced teams and can make up part of a defensive backbone that these teams require. Pokemon that can check Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-types work well as partners; bulky Water-types can fulfill this role effectively. Swampert in particular is a great teammate as it has great defensive synergy with Florges, provides Stealth Rocks, (ac)and can phaze setup sweepers that Florges hates,(ac) such as CurseLax., (period to comma)while Florges supports Swampert in return with Wish and Aromatherapy. Krookodile is another great teammate that can beat many foes that threaten Florges, such as Nidoqueen, Roserade, and Jirachi. Mega Aggron can also support Florges with Stealth Rock and phazing while standing up to threats such as Crobat, Jirachi, and Mega Beedrill.

Defensive Calm Mind
########
name: Defensive Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Moonblast
move 3: Synthesis
move 4: Aromatherapy
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Calm Mind boosts Florges's Special Attack and Special Defense, letting it eventually break down specially defensive walls while also becoming extremely difficult to take down with special attacks. Moonblast is the set's only attack and has a good offensive typing and respectable power with STAB. Synthesis is used to immediately restore half of Florges's HP after it gets worn down and is used over Wish as a more reliable form of recovery. Finally, Aromatherapy heals Florges of status and makes Florges extremely hard for defensively oriented teams to take down; it also provides useful cleric support for the rest of Florges's team.

Set Details
========

Maximum investment in Defense and HP along with a Bold nature allows is placed into physical Defense to allow Florges to easily take attacks from the likes of Mienshao, Krookodile, and Crobat.;(period to semicolon) (decapitalize)Nno EVs need to be placed into Special Defense because it will be boosted with by Calm Mind. A Bold nature further increases Florges's Defense. Thus, Florges is very difficult to revenge kill after it sets up thanks to its heavy investment in physical Defense coupled with its boosted Special Defense. Leftovers provides Florges with passive healing as it boosts, allowing it to use Synthesis less frequently.

Usage Tips
========

This set fits well on bulky offensive teams as a check to various attackers as well as an excellent win condition against stall, which struggles to take Florges down without a setup sweeper of its own, such as CroCune.
Florges should use Synthesis and Aromatherapy conservatively in order to preserve their limited PP.For this reason, Florges should not attempt to play around Toxic Blissey or defensive Arcanine, which can both wear Florges down easily with repeated statuses and attacks.
Florges should not attempt to play around Toxic Blissey or defensive Arcanine, which can both wear Florges down easily with repeated statuses and attacks, thus wasting its precious Aromatherapy and Synthesis PP.

Instead, Florges should set up on non-boosting special attackers, such as Raikou and,(ac) Mega Blastoise, and even slow Life Orb Nidoqueen,(ac) as well as passive Pokemon, such as Gligar,(ac) and Vaporeon,(ac) and Gyro Ball Forretress. Most notably, Florges can set up on and beat Gyro Ball Forretress and slower variants of Life Orb Nidoqueen, barring critical hits. However, Florges struggles against most opposing setup sweepers such as CroCune, Calm Mind Cresselia, and CurseLax, and should not attempt to beat them one-on-one.

Team Options
========

Florges needs most Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-types weakened or removed before it can set up safely. Krookodile is an excellent partner,(ac) as it can trap Jirachi and Bronzong,(rc) can and check Poison-types such as Roserade and Toxicroak, and while appreciatappreciates appreciating Florges's ability to switch into Fighting-types. Swampert is also a great partner,(ac) as it can set up Stealth Rock to pressure opposing Fire-types, check Fire- and Steel-types, and phaze opposing setup sweepers that can beat Florges. Toxic Spikes is a great option to pair with Florges that forces opposing Pokemon such as Vaporeon and Arcanine to recover frequently, granting Florges more setup opportunities.

Other Options
########

Florges has access to a decent coverage move in Psychic, which can defeat Poison-types such as Nidoqueen and Roserade and can deal considerable damage to Fire-types. Florges also has access to Energy Ball to hit Water- and Ground-types harder.,(period to comma) It and can use Hidden Power Fire to do decent damage to Steel-types barring Empoleon, especially Forretress, which commonly uses Florges's presence on the field to set up entry hazards.

With a naturally high Special Attack, Florges can run an offensive Calm Mind set with two or three attacks. However, its low Speed and poor uninvested physical bulk prevent this set from being too effective. Florges can use a Choice Scarf to get surprise KOs on faster Pokemon such as Crobat and Infernape; a Modest nature should be used over a Timid nature on such a set, as the latter doesn't outspeed anything relevant. Florges can also run Choice Specs with the aforementioned coverage moves to deal major damage to most switch-ins.

Checks & Counters
########

**Fairy-type Resistances**: Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-types can take advantage of common Florges sets and immediately threaten it out. Jirachi resists everything that Florges has except for the extremely uncommon Hidden Power Fire and has no trouble forcing it out with the threat of Iron Head. Other notable Pokemon that have little to fear are Roserade, Nidoking, Mega Beedrill, Entei, Darmanitan, Empoleon, and Mega Aggron.

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Even with maximum investment in Defense, Florges still struggles to switch into many neutral physical attacks, such as those from Choice Band Krookodile, Life Orb Zygarde, and Life Orb Infernape.

**Boosting Pokemon**: RestTalk Pokemon such as Snorlax and Suicune can use Florges as setup fodder, as even Calm Mind variants fail to beat them. Nasty Plot users such as Mega Houndoom, Porygon-Z, and Azelf can all beat support Florges.

**Taunt**: Support Florges cannot perform its role against Taunt users, and the Calm Mind Florges also falls to some common Taunt users, such as Crobat.

**Phazing**: Phazers such as Swampert and Mega Aggron prevent Wish Florges from passing its Wishes to the desired recipient and Calm Mind Florges from setting up freely. In particular, Sand Stream Hippowdon can phaze Florges while also lowering Synthesis's recovery with its ability.
 
Thank you both for the checks, all the GP checks have been implemented while I've considered all of the amcheck suggestions and implemented most of it. This is ready for a second stamp.
 

frenzyplant

Inertia is a property of matter.
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
2/2 :)

add remove (comments)

Overview
########

With an excellent defensive typing, a great set of resistances, reliable recovery in Synthesis and Wish, and a solid supporting movepool, Florges is a staple in the UU tier. Boasting solid defensive stats, albeit a rather poor base Defense, Florges also has an often-overlooked Special Attack stat and a good offensive STAB move in Moonblast. However, Florges grants a free switch in to several threatening Pokemon of the tier, however, such as various Steel- and Fire-types. It is also setup fodder to many common setup sweepers and often falls victim to common stallbreaking tactics, (remove comma) such as Trick and Taunt. In addition, Florges's has a pair of abilities that have no use in the singles format.

Defensive Support
########
name: Defensive Support
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect / Synthesis
move 3: Moonblast
move 4: Aromatherapy / Toxic
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
nature: Calm

Moves
========

Florges is a decent Wish passer and is usually able to reliably heal itself and its teammates with Wish. Protect enables Florges to safely receive its own Wish unless Florges gets phazed out by Roar or Whirlwind; it is also important for scouting movesets and Choiced attackers and grants Florges additional Leftovers recovery. Synthesis can be used over Protect to reliably restore Florges's own health against phazers such as Swampert. Moonblast is reasonably strong coming off of Florges's naturally high Special Attack and is able to OHKO several offensive Pokemon, such as Hydreigon, Mega Absol, and Mienshao. Aromatherapy removes status from Florges and its teammates, while Toxic can be used instead to wear down Fire-type switch-ins and bulkier Pokemon. However, many of Florges's switch-ins are immune to Toxic because of their typing, such as Jirachi and Nidoqueen, or can heal themselves of status, such as Blissey and opposing Florges.

Set Details
========

The given EVs significantly boost Florges's Defense, allowing it to take physical Fighting- and Dark-type attacks well. The Special Defense investment and a Calm nature are used to retain Florges's massive special bulk; alternatively, maximum investment in Defense with a Bold nature can be used to answer to Pokemon such as Krookodile and Zygarde more easily. Leftovers lets Florges heal passively without relying on Wish and works well in tandem with Protect. Neither of Florges's abilities are is useful, so either one can be used.

Usage Tips
========

Protect should be used to scout Choiced Pokemon or possibly threatening coverage moves such as Iron Tail on Hydreigon. However, Florges must be wary of Pokemon that can take advantage of the free turn granted by Protect by boosting or using Substitute. If Synthesis is preferred, it should always be used instead of Wish to heal Florges itself.

Team Options
========

This Florges set works best on balanced teams and can make up part of a the defensive backbone that these teams require. Pokemon that can check Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-types work well as partners; bulky Water-types can fulfill this role effectively. Swampert in particular is a great teammate as it has great defensive synergy with Florges, provides Stealth Rock, and can phaze setup sweepers that Florges hates, such as CurseLax, while Florges supports Swampert in return with Wish and Aromatherapy. Krookodile is another great teammate that can beat many foes that threaten Florges, such as Nidoqueen, Roserade, and Jirachi. Mega Aggron can also support Florges with Stealth Rock and phazing while standing up to threats such as Crobat, Jirachi, and Mega Beedrill.

Defensive Calm Mind
########
name: Defensive Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Moonblast
move 3: Synthesis
move 4: Aromatherapy
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
nature: Bold

Moves
========

Calm Mind boosts Florges's Special Attack and Special Defense, letting it eventually break down special walls while also becoming extremely difficult to take down with special attacks. Moonblast is the set's only attack and has a good offensive typing and respectable power with STAB. Synthesis is used to immediately restore half of Florges's HP. Finally, Aromatherapy heals Florges of status and makes Florges extremely hard for defensively oriented teams to take down; it also provides useful cleric support for the rest of Florges's team.

Set Details
========

Maximum investment in Defense and HP along with a Bold nature allows Florges to easily take attacks from the likes of Mienshao, Krookodile, and Crobat; no EVs need to be placed into Special Defense because it will be boosted by Calm Mind. Thus, Florges is very difficult to revenge kill after it sets up thanks to its heavy investment in Defense coupled with its boosted Special Defense. Leftovers provides Florges with passive healing as it boosts, allowing it to use Synthesis less frequently.

Usage Tips
========

This set fits well on bulky offensive teams as a check to various attackers as well as an excellent win condition against stall, which struggles to take Florges down without a setup sweeper of its own, such as CroCune. Florges should not attempt to play around Pokemon such as Toxic Blissey and defensive Arcanine, which can both wear Florges down easily with repeated statuses and attacks, forcing Florges to use up its limited Aromatherapy and Synthesis PP. Instead, Florges should set up on non-boosting special attackers, such as Raikou, Mega Blastoise, and even slower variants of Life Orb Nidoqueen, as well as passive Pokemon, such as Gligar, Vaporeon, and even Gyro Ball Forretress. However, Florges struggles against most opposing setup sweepers, (comma) such as CroCune, Calm Mind Cresselia, and CurseLax, and should not attempt to beat them one-on-one.

Team Options
========

Florges needs most Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-types weakened or removed before it can set up safely. Krookodile is an excellent partner, (comma) as it can trap Jirachi and Bronzong and check Poison-types such as Roserade and Toxicroak, while appreciating Florges's ability to switch into Fighting-types. Swampert is also a great partner, as it can set up Stealth Rock to pressure opposing Fire-types, check Fire- and Steel-types, and phaze opposing setup sweepers that can beat Florges. Toxic Spikes is a great option to pair with Florges that forces opposing Pokemon such as Vaporeon and Arcanine to recover frequently, granting Florges more setup opportunities.

Other Options
########

Florges has access to a decent coverage move in Psychic, which can defeat Poison-types such as Nidoqueen and Roserade and can deal considerable damage to Fire-types. Florges also has access to Energy Ball to hit Water- and Ground-types harder, (remove comma) or and can use Hidden Power Fire to do deal decent damage to Steel-types barring Empoleon, especially Forretress, which commonly uses Florges's presence on the field to set up entry hazards.

With a naturally high Special Attack, Florges can run an offensive Calm Mind set with two or three attacks. However, its low Speed and poor uninvested physical bulk prevent this set from being too effective. Florges can use a Choice Scarf to get surprise KOs on faster Pokemon such as Crobat and Infernape; a Modest nature should be used over a Timid nature on such a set, as the latter doesn't outspeed anything relevant. Florges can also run Choice Specs with the aforementioned coverage moves to deal major damage to most switch-ins.

Checks & Counters
########

**Pokemon that Resist Fairy-type Resistances**: Steel-, Poison-, and Fire-types can take advantage of common Florges sets and immediately threaten it out. Jirachi resists everything that Florges has except for the extremely uncommon Hidden Power Fire and has no trouble forcing it out with the threat of Iron Head. Other notable Pokemon that have little to fear are Roserade, Nidoking, Mega Beedrill, Entei, Darmanitan, Empoleon, and Mega Aggron.

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Even with maximum investment in Defense, Florges still struggles to switch into many neutral physical attacks such as those from Choice Band Krookodile, Life Orb Zygarde, and Life Orb Infernape.

**Boosting Pokemon**: RestTalk Pokemon such as Snorlax and Suicune can use Florges as setup fodder, (comma) as even Calm Mind variants fail to beat them. Nasty Plot users such as Mega Houndoom, Porygon-Z, and Azelf can all beat support Florges.

**Taunt**: Support Florges cannot perform its role against Taunt users, (comma) and Calm Mind Florges also falls to some common Taunt users, (comma) such as Crobat.

**Phazing**: Phazers such as Swampert and Mega Aggron prevent Wish Florges from passing its Wishes to the desired recipient and Calm Mind Florges from setting up freely. In particular, Sand Stream Hippowdon can phaze Florges while also lowering Synthesis's recovery with its ability.
 
Last edited:
Alright I couldn't get to this over the weekend, but the final GP check is implemented (thank you frenzyplant). A couple things: I removed any mention of Zygarde from the analysis, replacing it with Haxorus in one instance and just deleting it in the other. Also, the two GP checkers contradicted each other with the use of "Choice" vs "Choiced" in two different cases, so I changed them both to the latter since that's what I had originally.

...it is also important for scouting movesets and Choiced attackers...

Protect should be used to scout Choiced Pokemon or...

Unless anyone has an issue with any of the things I just mentioned, this analysis is ready for upload :]
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top