For A Friend (OU RMT)

[Steel.Storm]

as the title suggests this is my friends team he is planning... however he has a sucky comp (like 20 mins just to turn it on @.@) and doesn't even have an account on Smogon so he turned to me since he's been getting into competitive battling. so on to the team:


Notes:
- i don't have complete control over changes, as it's up to my friend in the end (however i'm sure he'll do almost everything to make the team more solid)
- changes in Purple Bold Italic
- Wandering Soul's words in Orange Bold
- my thoughts in Blue Bold

At A Glance

In Depth

The Lead

Mamoswine @ Occa Berry
-Adamant-
176 HP / 116 Atk / 20 SpD / 196 Spe
Stealth Rock
Toxic
Ice Shard
Earthquake

basically your standard Support Mamo with a twist. he's not expected as a Lead and can come as a surprise. SR is obviously needed now-a-days, Toxic is for random annoying status, Ice Shard nets some Priority, STAB and finishs off Dragons, and EQ gives him some coverage as well as taking on a few Leads it hits SE against (Tran, Nape, etc). the Berry gives him a chance vs Tran and Napes after everyone has SR'd the 1st turn (provided Nape doesn't CC)
i know there's probably tons of more effective leads out there, however i just really like this guy and wanted to include him somehow :)



The DDer

Kingdra @ Leftovers
-Adamant-
96 HP / 180 Atk / 232 Spe
Substitute
Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Outrage

i actually recommended this set to him as this little booger has run through half of my team before when getting set up correctly. DD is why he's awesome, Sub protects from status or can save you sometimes, Waterfall + Outrage is a nice STAB combo with good coverage: Outrage nails tons of things while Waterfall hits those Steels really hard. Lefties can make the difference between life and death if this guy gets set up. 2+ turns of Lefties can save him to from death for an extra turn



The Trick :O

Scizor @ Life Orb
-Adamant-
248 HP / 88 Atk / 172 Spe
Bullet Punch
Superpower
Swords Dance
Baton Pass

bet you weren't expecting that last attack :p. after the popularity of LO Scizor my friend wanted to test out a Baton Pass variant, though this guy 1st poses as the standard LO SDer and then will pass it on the Nite (who you'll see later). Bullet Punch is obvious on this guy, if there's nothing to pass to he can finish things up himself, and Superpower it here to hit things that resist BP. this guy is actually very effective. like planned, he tricks everyone and makes them panic when he passes to Nite lol



The Shooting Star

Starmie @ Choice Scarf
-Modest-
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Grass Knot
Surf
T-Bolt
Ice Beam

VERY useful Revenge Killer. BoltBeam (just like Bliss) gives great coverage and lets me get back at Gyara, Bulky Waters, and Dragons. Surf is a reliable STAB and is great vs TTar, Nape, or Tran. the last attack was an easy choice: Trick really wasn't viable as not many people play competitively here (so they attempt to sweep with anything and everything -_-), Psychic lets Pursuit pokes run all over her, while Grass Knot takes on Pert and others who'd rather not take a Grass hit instead of T-Bolt
as Storm said, she's a fav of mine... and i'm not using Tran. there's something about him i just don't like (after all, it helps to like the pokes you use)



The Bulky Counter

Metagross @ Choice Band
-Adamant-
252 HP / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Explosion

decided against Trick due to the lack of competitive players around here... most will try to make a sweeper out of anything >.<. this guy is really effective. comes in on Dragons/other resists and just hits HARD. CB STAB Meteor Mash can really dent anything that doesn't resist it, EQ handles most other Steels, and Ice Punch gives him an answer to Dragons who plan on murdering Nite and Kingdra along with predicted Ground/Flying switch ins (Zap, Skarmory, and Gliscor to name a few). Explosion is just amazing with a CB O.O and takes out lots of things if there's no better option. Ice Punch gives him Dragon coverage, plus Mie is already packing T-Bolt anyway
Gross is awesome. i've always loved him, plus Explosion is beastly here lol



The Beastie ;D

Dragonite @ Life Orb
-Lonely-
84 Atk / 220 SpA / 204 Spe
Agility
Draco Meteor
Outrage
Earthquake


lots of changes here. with the SD coming from Scizor, and getting an Agility on the switch she can pack quite a punch. Outrage is basically staple, as is EQ for managing Steels (bar a few) and Draco Meteor lets her blast through Phy. Walls like cake. she makes for a really fun way to end the match. one of the few sets that separate he from her Dragon friends. no one seems to expect AgiliNite lol
def a better set than the previous! i really like it :)

idk if he's tested this team at all, but i do know it's mostly (if not all) favs so he may be reluctant to some changes. just glancing i see no mega weaknesses, though i'm sure i'm over looking something lol so all help is greatly welcome and will be considered :). guess it's that time again: Hate/Rate/Steal!
​

 

[mtr]

just glancing i see no mega weaknesses,

This is sort of why testing is required. For example, I just found out that Starmie takes a diarrhea shit on my team, which I never knew on paper.

Definitely EQ on Mamoswine, consider Occa Berry to reduce Fire damage.

Maybe tell your friend to reconsider Blissey: Calm Mind/Psych Up variants are designed for ubers where the Special power level reaches 9000. In standard play, there are many better things Blissey could be doing and many better attackers you could be using.

I personally like Heatran (Specstran or Subtran), but only testing will tell how it handles.

If that doesn't work out, try Choice Scarf Starmie.

Dusknoir should probably have Thunderpunch over Shadow Sneak if you decide you don't want the Starmie.

Consider an Agilinite (from smogon page) at the end: it is Dragonite's trump card over its dragon buddies, and thus shows off its strengths. On a personal level, it would appeal to your friend, and on a competitive level it is a good reason to use Dragonite over Salamence, who in all honesty is superior in most aspects.

 

[Steel.Storm]

i'll probably be testing this soon if he doesn't (i'm not sure if he got Shoddy yet)... yea, it is kinda needed

i'll show him all your ideas (i'll see him in ~1.5 hrs) and edit accordingly

personally i really like the ScarfMie and AgiliNite ideas, and i do think Bliss needs a change


EDIT: made some changes and my friend wanted me to add some things he said. he's unsure on where Scarfmie should go (suggestions?) and LOVES the AgiliNite

 

[mtr]

i'll probably be testing this soon if he doesn't (i'm not sure if he got Shoddy yet)... yea, it is kinda needed

i'll show him all your ideas (i'll see him in ~1.5 hrs) and edit accordingly

personally i really like the ScarfMie and AgiliNite ideas, and i do think Bliss needs a change


EDIT: made some changes and my friend wanted me to add some things he said. he's unsure on where Scarfmie should go (suggestions?) and LOVES the AgiliNite

I was thinking over Blissey. But if CM Blissey works, then go for it. My only concern is that it sounds like your friend is looking for something else and is forcing Blissey to fit the slot of a bulky Special Sweeper. Also this team looks like it could need a bit of speedy revenge.

But be sure also to try out Heatran in that slot. Both can work.

 

[Steel.Storm]

i think your right. he was lacking in the Spec. department and saw Bliss had the ability to CM and went with it... and i'll test both, thanks.

i'm guessing he'll be leaning toward Starmie (another fav of his) as he knows i use Tran and hates the lava spider since it goes boom >.<, but testing will tell


EDIT: asked him and (just as i thought) he prefers Mie > Tran so i went ahead and put her over Bliss until testing may prove otherwise

 

[Ninjadead]

I suggest putting Leftovers on Kingdra instead so you can recover HP when you use Sub. Also, why do you have sp.atk evs without any special attacks?

 

[Steel.Storm]

I suggest putting Leftovers on Kingdra instead so you can recover HP when you use Sub. Also, why do you have sp.atk evs without any special attacks?

though i've only tested this team a tiny bit i think you're right about Lefties... there has been several times ie'd have kept on trucking with those 2-4 turns of Lefties recovery. as for the EVs, it's a typo lol


me and my friend are honestly at a loss for Dusknoir. nether of us think he really fits in the team but have no ideas what to put in his place

 

[Wandering Soul]

hey guys i appreciate all the help with the team. I love the agilinite and think starmie is a great replace ment for bliss. as steel said we have no clue wat to do about Dusknoir. So help is needed to replace him and i refuse to use Heatran

 

[Ninjadead]

I suggest giving Kingdra swift swim ability and doing Cresselia in place of Dusknoir. Give Cress Rain Dance so Kingdra gets twice his speed in rain. Give Cress T-Wave too as he can usually paralyze a few pokes after setting up rain dance

 

[Steel.Storm]

hey guys i appreciate all the help with the team. I love the agilinite and think starmie is a great replace ment for bliss. as steel said we have no clue wat to do about Dusknoir. So help is needed to replace him and i refuse to use Heatran

hey look everyone! my friend made an account :D. and as i thought, you don't like Tran >.<. as for Mie and Nite i def agree, and Noir... no ideas come to mind atm (nor have they all day lol)


EDIT:

I suggest giving Kingdra swift swim ability and doing Cresselia in place of Dusknoir. Give Cress Rain Dance so Kingdra gets twice his speed in rain. Give Cress T-Wave too as he can usually paralyze a few pokes after setting up rain dance

hmm... Cress is interesting (and i have no personally experience with her). that could give Scizor an easier time too (weakening Fire) and T-Wave is always fun to screw things over in general. i'll test this and see how it goes

 

[Wandering Soul]

I suggest giving Kingdra swift swim ability and doing Cresselia in place of Dusknoir. Give Cress Rain Dance so Kingdra gets twice his speed in rain. Give Cress T-Wave too as he can usually paralyze a few pokes after setting up rain dance

not sure how I feel about Cress. I dont like support poke they feel like dead weight. I love the lefties idea tho

 

[mtr]

hey guys i appreciate all the help with the team. I love the agilinite and think starmie is a great replace ment for bliss. as steel said we have no clue wat to do about Dusknoir. So help is needed to replace him and i refuse to use Heatran

I would have said Thunderpunch, but since your Starmie is playing revenge anyways, it's rather pointless IMO. In my opinion, he fits better than Heatran.

Since you said offense fits your playstyle, let's make Dusky turn into something else. What I'm thinking is a lure for Dragonite counters: something that has similar counters to Dragonite but can stop those counters and allow Dragonite to sweep.

Dragonite is defeated by...

Offensive: Weavile and Mamoswine: the famed dragon killers.
Defensive: Hippowdon and Cresselia and Skarmory: the defensive dudes that used to attempt to cockblock Garchomp.

Scizor beats Weavile and Mamoswine easily(and very few Mamo have Fire Blast).
Starmie beats Hippowdon and Skarmory, but who in their right mind will keep one of them in on a Starmie?

Perhaps we could try...Trickband Metagross? This will give you 3 Fire weak, but you also have 3 resists, so it shouldn't hurt much.

Use the set on smogon and replace a move (NOT EXPLOSION) with Trick. It will cripple one of Dragonite's defensive counters. Then you can blow up on the other counter or just that one and get in Dragonite, who will blast the weakened counter to bits and sweep.

Against an offensive team, Trickband Metagross is a potent force. He can also counter Latias (although Scizor can do that with a bit of sand support, you'll need U-turn).

Metagross also synergizes with Dragonite: he covers the Ice and Rock weak while Dragonite covers the Fire and Ground weak of Metagross.

If you don't like another Choice user, run SD Lucario, who covers weaknesses the same way. And can OHKO a Skarmory after an SD. This will make your team easier to pilot and better handle the anti-stall matchup, but weaken your anti-offense matchup relative to Metagross. If you pick Lucario, try to get Hippo to around 60% health (wearing him down with a standard CC once before switching out) so an SD Close Combat can OHKO him the next time. I know it's a bit redundant, but Hippowdon will be this team's nemesis.

Try both, and see which suits your team and your style.

I'll try to think of other guys. Hell, you could even put a Choice Band and Trick on Dusknoir!

Really only use Trick if you are facing stall, though. Or if you have a good reason against, say, a predominately special offensive team.

 

[Ninjadead]

Cress is more of a tank than support, it's though to kill her. I suggest you give something rain dance to make Kingdra faster and therfore more awesome.I wouldnt go with immensly popular pokes like trick metagross.

 

[mtr]

Good point. I guess Support Cress can work if you want to make Kingdra the center of the team. But at this stage, we start getting into intangibles. It is true that Metagross exerts a stronger force on the metagame than Cresselia. But both Metagross and Lucario would be excellent supporting sweepers on a Dragon-based offensive team. I don't see a Rain Dance Cresselia as an optimal choice, but the surprise factor could be what defeats the opponent.

 

[Steel.Storm]

amazing replies :). i believe we are going to try out both Gross and Luke. they compliment the Dragon weaknesses and Gross is pretty bulky so that helps... the CB Trick Gross sounds good to me, may test that tomorrow, however i have to get off the comp atm so may not get back to anything else for about another 12 hours. thanks the all the help guys!

 

[Wandering Soul]

Thanks for your help like he said we are leaning to Metagross. What did you have in mind with Cress.

 

[mtr]

The idea is a bit esoteric, but not unheard of: Gen. Empoleon used it in his Sun Team: using Cresselia as weather support. On this team, it would use Rain Dance to make Kingdra horrifically powerful. Standard support moveset, just with Rain Dance over Thunder Wave or Reflect.

The disadvantage of this is...Tyranitar is common and can screw up weather based strategies. Dedicated weather teams run stuff like Swampert/Hariyama/Dugtrio for Tyranitar, but this team doesn't have an absolute counter. Because of this, I was leaning towards Metagross/Lucario to help your Dragonite further.

It's not a problem to help. I actually enjoy reading RMT's because they give me advice for my own teams. I've been in a bit of a slump lately, and this thread has given me a few new ideas.

 

[Wandering Soul]

The idea is a bit esoteric, but not unheard of: Gen. Empoleon used it in his Sun Team: using Cresselia as weather support. On this team, it would use Rain Dance to make Kingdra horrifically powerful. Standard support moveset, just with Rain Dance over Thunder Wave or Reflect.

The disadvantage of this is...Tyranitar is common and can screw up weather based strategies. Dedicated weather teams run stuff like Swampert/Hariyama/Dugtrio for Tyranitar, but this team doesn't have an absolute counter. Because of this, I was leaning towards Metagross/Lucario to help your Dragonite further.

It's not a problem to help. I actually enjoy reading RMT's because they give me advice for my own teams. I've been in a bit of a slump lately, and this thread has given me a few new ideas.

Interesting idea about the weather, but like you said this team really has no one solid counter and I think thats one of its strong suits. I really like your Metagross idea I think he will really help out a lot. I wish there was something totally off the wall that would help that no one would suspect lol. But ya know whatever works works. May I ask what kinda ideas you have gotten?

 

[Steel.Storm]

added in Gross > Noir. he has some nice bulk that Luke lacks (besides, if all else fails Scizor can do the same as SD Luke), plus he acts as somewhat of a counter to opposing Dragons and Explosion is really nice to have somewhere on a team just in case

 

[mtr]

Interesting idea about the weather, but like you said this team really has no one solid counter and I think thats one of its strong suits. I really like your Metagross idea I think he will really help out a lot. I wish there was something totally off the wall that would help that no one would suspect lol. But ya know whatever works works. May I ask what kinda ideas you have gotten?

Mainly the Mamoswine lead. I've seen a few, but never run one, and it certainly looks good. That and the idea of using support components to help break walls. Not just Scizor-Dragonite, but also, say, Togekiss-Gengar/Jirachi. My next team will probably feature NP Togekiss and Jirachi on a stall-based balance team sort of like the Subperior Democracy RMT.

Stuff like this may seem obvious, but some of us get stuck in the rut of double dragon offense and really fail to see anything else. If there ever was a time to get out of that rut, it is now, as most balanced teams are more than prepared for the Outrages, Waterfalls, and Draco Meteors that run rampant on such teams.

Not to say that it can't work, because it certainly does, but you might need to be a bit more creative about it, and that's where the Agility comes in: no one ever expects a fast Dragonite at the end of the game. I don't think I've ever seen one, come to think of it. Quite a shame.

 

[Wandering Soul]

Mainly the Mamoswine lead. I've seen a few, but never run one, and it certainly looks good. That and the idea of using support components to help break walls. Not just Scizor-Dragonite, but also, say, Togekiss-Gengar/Jirachi. My next team will probably feature NP Togekiss and Jirachi on a stall-based balance team sort of like the Subperior Democracy RMT.

Stuff like this may seem obvious, but some of us get stuck in the rut of double dragon offense and really fail to see anything else. If there ever was a time to get out of that rut, it is now, as most balanced teams are more than prepared for the Outrages, Waterfalls, and Draco Meteors that run rampant on such teams.

Not to say that it can't work, because it certainly does, but you might need to be a bit more creative about it, and that's where the Agility comes in: no one ever expects a fast Dragonite at the end of the game. I don't think I've ever seen one, come to think of it. Quite a shame.

I certainly agree. I mean Dragonite good, but I believe he is highly underrated when it comes to being compared to Salamence. My personal preference is Dragonite.

 

[Steel.Storm]

did a few more edits and the team is working pretty well, which means in our local area it will pwn XD

there's really nothing i can think of to fix without changing some pokes (which i think Soul doesn't want to do since he started to create the team). and Soul seems happy with the new team and all the improvements :). thanks for all help guys!