As the above replay shows, it also effectively breaks Forte Clause, with three different self-KO moves.
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Metagame Fortemons
- Thread starter ponchlake
- Start date
I don't think so. Different moves can have the same effects, such as Absorb and Giga Drain and Flame Charge and Trailblaze.
Since the examples I stated are exempt from the Forte Clause, so should the self-KO moves.
A different argument for restricting the self-KO moves is that it reduces the entire game down to three Pokemon rather than six if you do not have a Ghost or Protect, which is less fun and less competitive.
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You've ruined the ladder lmao, now i never know what mon is gonna instantly trade with one of my walls
Does anyone know if Damp counters this?
I think you forgot to add Zama-C to the list, even though it's banned on Showdown
Urshifu Rapid Strike
Zacian
Zacian-Crowned
Zamazenta-Base
Zekrom
My team now that I've peaked.
https://pokepast.es/d42386e56dc48b86
Very self-explanatory as a special wall. Level 99 is for pivoting slower than other Slowkings and Heavy Duty Boots are for anti-hazards. Flamethrower is to be able to hit Corviknight or Skarmory if they try to set up on it.
old habits die hard
Having +2 priority First Impression makes it easy to counter Darkrai, Excadrill, and Dragapult once they are weakened. Trailblaze allows for easy pivoting out once you eliminate an opposing Pokemon.
Fastest Electric Pokemon with decent coverage. Flash Cannon is absolutely necessary in order to counter Diancie or Regirock and Dark Pulse is for chipping down Slowking-Galar or Dragapult. Thunder Wave is for speed control.
Fastest and strongest Psychic Pokemon. Luster Purge is for STAB, Ice Beam is for Ground Pokemon, Aura Sphere is for Steel Pokemon, and Thunderbolt is for Flying Pokemon.
Levitate is also valuable since no Spikes damage.
One of the best Rapid Spinners. Self-explanatory moveset besides Upper Hand, which counters Sucker Punch/Aqua Jet Samurott-Hisui, Extreme Speed Regieleki, Grassy Glide Rillaboom, Thunderclap Raging Bolt, etc.
I use Primarina as a physical wall rather than a special one in order to beat Dragapult. The given speed EVs should outspeed other Primarinas.
https://pokepast.es/d42386e56dc48b86
Very self-explanatory as a special wall. Level 99 is for pivoting slower than other Slowkings and Heavy Duty Boots are for anti-hazards. Flamethrower is to be able to hit Corviknight or Skarmory if they try to set up on it.
Having +2 priority First Impression makes it easy to counter Darkrai, Excadrill, and Dragapult once they are weakened. Trailblaze allows for easy pivoting out once you eliminate an opposing Pokemon.
Fastest Electric Pokemon with decent coverage. Flash Cannon is absolutely necessary in order to counter Diancie or Regirock and Dark Pulse is for chipping down Slowking-Galar or Dragapult. Thunder Wave is for speed control.
Fastest and strongest Psychic Pokemon. Luster Purge is for STAB, Ice Beam is for Ground Pokemon, Aura Sphere is for Steel Pokemon, and Thunderbolt is for Flying Pokemon.
Levitate is also valuable since no Spikes damage.
One of the best Rapid Spinners. Self-explanatory moveset besides Upper Hand, which counters Sucker Punch/Aqua Jet Samurott-Hisui, Extreme Speed Regieleki, Grassy Glide Rillaboom, Thunderclap Raging Bolt, etc.
I use Primarina as a physical wall rather than a special one in order to beat Dragapult. The given speed EVs should outspeed other Primarinas.
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https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2045820176-w6scfbferu4o05ovtpjpserzxqy4bftpw
Please nuke self-KO moves and Dragon Tail/Circle Throw.
Please nuke self-KO moves and Dragon Tail/Circle Throw.
Samurott-Hisui is now banned, all self-ko moves are restricted and Kyurem (base) is now free!
Ladder is almost over, so it may feel a bit late for some, but is never too late to seek balance.
Samurott-Hisui has become extremely effective and centralizing after some of the best Rapid Spin users like Terapagos were banned, it just too much of an easy time setting hazards, specially when it can Flip Turn away from its checks on the switch while still getting hazards up.
The self-ko moves were used to easily trade mons with Endeavor, creating holes in the opposite team that may be hard to predict, destroying most defensive cores without much that can be done about it. Banning Endeavor was an option, but the move has some competitive use of its own, meanwhile there isn't much else that could be done with self-ko moves in the item slot.
Kyurem is being freed as it doesn't have access to any interesting fortes that are legal, so is worth giving a chance, its regular sets could end being a problem, so we will pay attention to it.
Kris dhelmise
Ladder is almost over, so it may feel a bit late for some, but is never too late to seek balance.
Samurott-Hisui has become extremely effective and centralizing after some of the best Rapid Spin users like Terapagos were banned, it just too much of an easy time setting hazards, specially when it can Flip Turn away from its checks on the switch while still getting hazards up.
The self-ko moves were used to easily trade mons with Endeavor, creating holes in the opposite team that may be hard to predict, destroying most defensive cores without much that can be done about it. Banning Endeavor was an option, but the move has some competitive use of its own, meanwhile there isn't much else that could be done with self-ko moves in the item slot.
Kyurem is being freed as it doesn't have access to any interesting fortes that are legal, so is worth giving a chance, its regular sets could end being a problem, so we will pay attention to it.
Can whoever is able to please keep the "Ban History" list at the very top of this thread updated? It's been very hard to keep up up with the rapidly evolving ruleset over the course of the ladder, I'm beginning to assume there must be like a Discord or some other thread somewhere that people are using to stay updated.
Thanks, and I really hope this format gets its own permanent ladder at some point, this ladder has been the most fun I've had on showdown in a while.
Thanks, and I really hope this format gets its own permanent ladder at some point, this ladder has been the most fun I've had on showdown in a while.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2046236163
Ignore my awful team I just found this incredibly amusing. Love Fell Stinger in this OM
Ignore my awful team I just found this incredibly amusing. Love Fell Stinger in this OM
I'm gonna miss this OM, some of the most fun I've had in a while. It's a shame Samu got nuked tho, I was under the impression it was a positive presence in the meta
Rejoice, for I have a team to showcase.
Or not, I mean, I am nobody LMAO
https://pokepast.es/c8ed8fb8cc60a9baF
Basically the only team I have used, I tinkered with it a bit.
Enamorus is there because I wanted a Draining Kiss user; Enamorus is a strong pokemon and hitting on both sides of the spectrum is always fun.
Rimbombee is there because usually the base speed of the mon is REALLY importanty: therefore I wanted a way to play with it. Lunge is the forte so other stuff can switch in with a bit more impunity.
Excadrill is there to remove hazards. It's the best spinner, Rock Blast because I wanted to have fun with a multi-hit Forte proc. Rocker because you usually need damage-dealing hazards.
Gallade: SD is something I almost never touched. It's not the most bulky of pokemon, so "double dancing" is not something I was able to achieve except for once (it was worth it, of course). Agility is a bit more important since it already hits hard enough, most of the time.
Zoroark-Hisui: in a format where actual items are almost never used, using a scarf is MAGICAL. Illusion is an extremely fun ability (of course you need to properly create the team around it and be able to utilize it the best during each and every game! Not like I did here LMAO.)
Baxcalibur: a stong mon that got banned in other formats (along with Enamorus and also Zoroark, tbf). I started having problems with Light Screen/Reflect/Aurora Veil so I wanted a Brick Break variant forte. I went for Bax, who can also DD and slam faces.
Not too much to say, I had fun, I didn't get too high on the ladder but that's not the importan part (to me).
Enamorus and Zoroark are the sets I would probably recommend as actually decent. The rest is either fun and or already used by everyone (exa).
Or not, I mean, I am nobody LMAO
https://pokepast.es/c8ed8fb8cc60a9baF
Basically the only team I have used, I tinkered with it a bit.
Enamorus is there because I wanted a Draining Kiss user; Enamorus is a strong pokemon and hitting on both sides of the spectrum is always fun.
Rimbombee is there because usually the base speed of the mon is REALLY importanty: therefore I wanted a way to play with it. Lunge is the forte so other stuff can switch in with a bit more impunity.
Excadrill is there to remove hazards. It's the best spinner, Rock Blast because I wanted to have fun with a multi-hit Forte proc. Rocker because you usually need damage-dealing hazards.
Gallade: SD is something I almost never touched. It's not the most bulky of pokemon, so "double dancing" is not something I was able to achieve except for once (it was worth it, of course). Agility is a bit more important since it already hits hard enough, most of the time.
Zoroark-Hisui: in a format where actual items are almost never used, using a scarf is MAGICAL. Illusion is an extremely fun ability (of course you need to properly create the team around it and be able to utilize it the best during each and every game! Not like I did here LMAO.)
Baxcalibur: a stong mon that got banned in other formats (along with Enamorus and also Zoroark, tbf). I started having problems with Light Screen/Reflect/Aurora Veil so I wanted a Brick Break variant forte. I went for Bax, who can also DD and slam faces.
Not too much to say, I had fun, I didn't get too high on the ladder but that's not the importan part (to me).
Enamorus and Zoroark are the sets I would probably recommend as actually decent. The rest is either fun and or already used by everyone (exa).
Now that the ladder's over and Hamu's banned, here's my team; got to top 250 with it a couple times. Heavy inspo from Toxtection's team used here.
Sets spikes effortlessly, flipturns into Riolu, deals way too much damage, you know the drill. EV'ed to live Jolly Hamurott's Sacred Sword.
With the amount of pivoting this team does, enemy hazards are a huge pain, so here's the spinner. Handles Waters, the metal birds, and hazards; outspeeds anything. Uses Hyper Beam to chip bulkless Excadrill switch-ins into range of Hamu's Sharpness-boosted Aqua Jet.
Part of the backbone of this team. Switches into Serperior, both Landos, and many others; slow-pivots with U-turn into Riolu. Note the speed IV of 30 to underspeed most other Corviknight.
The special wall, Rock setter, and TSpike absorber. Is immune to Electric attacks, which the rest of the team are hard-pressed to take. Surprisingly resilient to many neutral Physical threats, too.
The other big backbone of the team along with Corv. Flip Turn + Regenerator makes this fish REALLY hard to take down. Wishes coming off Mola's huge HP will heal anything else on the team almost to full. Scale Shot allows some cheeky Scald burns.
The real MVP here. Prankster-Copycat-Circle Throw forte finely dices opponents with hazard damage. Copy your teammates' own pivot moves to be extra annoying. I chose Ice Punch as the attack because 1. nothing's immune to it and 2. the freeze chance adds extra possibility for hax.
Here are some games I did with earlier versions of the team.
Technically Banned (Samurott-Hisui) @ ceaselessedge
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 68 HP / 112 Atk / 72 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Sucker Punch
- Sacred Sword
- Aqua Jet
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 68 HP / 112 Atk / 72 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Sucker Punch
- Sacred Sword
- Aqua Jet
Reginald Eleki (Regieleki) @ voltswitch
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Hyper Beam
- Extreme Speed
- Thunderbolt
Ability: Transistor
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Hyper Beam
- Extreme Speed
- Thunderbolt
Rosa (Corviknight) @ bodypress
Ability: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Iron Defense
- U-turn
- Flash Cannon
- Roost
Ability: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Iron Defense
- U-turn
- Flash Cannon
- Roost
(:3) (Clodsire) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Recover
Alomolomola (Alomomola) @ scald
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Protect
- Scale Shot
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Protect
- Scale Shot
The Chosen One (Riolu) (F) @ circlethrow
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Copycat
- Protect
- Substitute
- Ice Punch
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Copycat
- Protect
- Substitute
- Ice Punch
Here are some games I did with earlier versions of the team.
https://pokepast.es/a146928e69731e16
This was my main team now that the month is over. Some typical picks in H-Samurott, Primarina, and Coballion, though I used Volt Switch over Vacuum Wave on Coballion to keep momentum and break through bulky Water types. Ribombee was there to turn certain matchups in my favor with Sticky Webs and screens, as well as baiting in their Rapid Spinners for chip damage. The notable standouts of Choice Scarfed Enamorous and Facade Regieleki were there to threw people off-guard, with Enamorous being a great revenge killer in its own right and Regieleki countering Glimmora strats by deliberately proccing its Toxic Debris. Fortemons was definitely the most fun OM I've played in a while(the only one that came close was that one Pokebilities AAA mashup. Imagine the mashup possibilities with Fortemons)
This was my main team now that the month is over. Some typical picks in H-Samurott, Primarina, and Coballion, though I used Volt Switch over Vacuum Wave on Coballion to keep momentum and break through bulky Water types. Ribombee was there to turn certain matchups in my favor with Sticky Webs and screens, as well as baiting in their Rapid Spinners for chip damage. The notable standouts of Choice Scarfed Enamorous and Facade Regieleki were there to threw people off-guard, with Enamorous being a great revenge killer in its own right and Regieleki countering Glimmora strats by deliberately proccing its Toxic Debris. Fortemons was definitely the most fun OM I've played in a while
as a little sendoff i'd like to share my team in this thread since it might be a new generation when the ladder comes back 
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- hamurott does its usual stuff (not anymore rip) with flip turn pivoting and double priority in sucker punch and aqua jet all while setting spikes
- exca is my rocks option and spinner in one; pretty standard stuff although I did think about dropping sd for rock slide since in practice you almost never sweep anything with hamurott and rillaboom running rampant (speaking of which)
- rillaboom punishes the various water types like hamurott and primarina with grassy glide priority and powerful wood hammers while staying healthy via giga drain item
- diancie is one of my favorites in this meta with how fast it can get out of control if unchecked since all of its moves come of its significantly higher defense stat which also gets raised by diamond storm. speed investment is to outspeed max speed dragapult at +2. its biggest checks are the two metal birds which get countered pretty well by
- raging bolt stacks another layer of priority with thunder clap and checks cobalion pretty well and outright counters the metal birds (unless skarm runs drill run in which case just pivot smartly)
- i put iron crown on this team as a cute filler which checks anything with a healing move basically; volt switch + cm might look silly but it does not get any better coverage
most fun i had teambuilding for a meta in a while hope it does come back soon
------ hamurott does its usual stuff (not anymore rip) with flip turn pivoting and double priority in sucker punch and aqua jet all while setting spikes
- exca is my rocks option and spinner in one; pretty standard stuff although I did think about dropping sd for rock slide since in practice you almost never sweep anything with hamurott and rillaboom running rampant (speaking of which)
- rillaboom punishes the various water types like hamurott and primarina with grassy glide priority and powerful wood hammers while staying healthy via giga drain item
- diancie is one of my favorites in this meta with how fast it can get out of control if unchecked since all of its moves come of its significantly higher defense stat which also gets raised by diamond storm. speed investment is to outspeed max speed dragapult at +2. its biggest checks are the two metal birds which get countered pretty well by
- raging bolt stacks another layer of priority with thunder clap and checks cobalion pretty well and outright counters the metal birds (unless skarm runs drill run in which case just pivot smartly)
- i put iron crown on this team as a cute filler which checks anything with a healing move basically; volt switch + cm might look silly but it does not get any better coverage
most fun i had teambuilding for a meta in a while hope it does come back soon
Now that the OM is tragically over and the last (presumably) slate of bans for the cycle are done here's the team I ended up peaking (1500ish) with before dropping while playing jank
Team is more or less self explanatory/explained earlier in the thread. Samu is notably EV'd to always live Sacred Sword so it wins the match up. Corv is hazard removal + walls certain threats. Rocky is super good in this OM since a handful of fortes give contact to non-contact/special moves. Volc(anion) is here to patch up my weaknesses to fairy types from the earlier iterations of the team, poorly EV'd because I didn't feel like checking speed tiers so I chose nice numbers instead. No recovery/attack boosting kinda hurts it's long term and sweeping potential but it's a fairly potent offensive threat when it's allowed to get going. Water Absorb lets it switch in for free on Samu flip turns forcing them to either hard switch or try to beat it with dark moves. Haze seems counterintuitive but I swear it works. Pult is busted as always but while DD is the most high roll set something like mixed or u-turn could prove better. Overall the team is fairly solid but you get ran over by TR (thank god this isn't very common), Regieleki can be charitably called an 'annoyance', and Special Dragapult is a pain to handle
This OM was a really fun time even with all the broken and cheesy nonsense that emerged (If I ever see Metronome again I'll puke). There's still elements in the meta that are 'contentious' at best like Body Press but if anything this meta this meta is fun to play and fun to team build for. On the bright side, now that this ladder is over I will no longer have all my time monopolized by clicking Draco Meteor + Iron Defense on Kommo-o.
Team is more or less self explanatory/explained earlier in the thread. Samu is notably EV'd to always live Sacred Sword so it wins the match up. Corv is hazard removal + walls certain threats. Rocky is super good in this OM since a handful of fortes give contact to non-contact/special moves. Volc(anion) is here to patch up my weaknesses to fairy types from the earlier iterations of the team, poorly EV'd because I didn't feel like checking speed tiers so I chose nice numbers instead. No recovery/attack boosting kinda hurts it's long term and sweeping potential but it's a fairly potent offensive threat when it's allowed to get going. Water Absorb lets it switch in for free on Samu flip turns forcing them to either hard switch or try to beat it with dark moves. Haze seems counterintuitive but I swear it works. Pult is busted as always but while DD is the most high roll set something like mixed or u-turn could prove better. Overall the team is fairly solid but you get ran over by TR (thank god this isn't very common), Regieleki can be charitably called an 'annoyance', and Special Dragapult is a pain to handle
This OM was a really fun time even with all the broken and cheesy nonsense that emerged (If I ever see Metronome again I'll puke). There's still elements in the meta that are 'contentious' at best like Body Press but if anything this meta this meta is fun to play and fun to team build for. On the bright side, now that this ladder is over I will no longer have all my time monopolized by clicking Draco Meteor + Iron Defense on Kommo-o.
I know that the hub is outdated a tad, but I’m unsure if this is an error on the hub or the code on showdown.
The hub/OP is outdated - U-turn and Flip Turn are currently restricted off the item slot, while Volt Switch is currently freed.
Item boosts tend to overwrite move boosts. Putting Assurance in the item slot then clicking Triple Axel results in a 100 BP 20-40-40 attack, with Assurance removing the second boost.
EDIT:
You'd have to check with the coders, I didn't know that Fury Cutter was restricted and I'm unaware of how it would interact with moves like TAxel and Rollout.
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Fury Cutter is restricted.
If Fury Cutter was unrestricted, wouldn't it be 20-40-80 for Triple Axel?
It doesn't. It's restricted.
There’s still value gained out of knowing what a move does even if it wasn’t restricted.
The answer is still “it doesn’t.” It’s functionally useless. No special attack build up, no second turn firing.
Here’s a replay with Meteor Beam in the item slot.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-2063574507
Imagine the power kf
Maushold @ population bomb
Maushold @ population bomb