Frag Dolls [OU RMT]

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Redtype, Nov 24, 2010.

  1. Redtype

    Redtype

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
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    I apologize in advance for any spelling and grammar errors that might come along the way. I’m a foreigner and my English is far from perfect. Thanks for your understanding.

    Team Frag Dolls
    ('cause everything's better with rainbows)


    Hello smogon! After 6 or so months of playing in the other tiers, I decided to try my hand at Standard metagame once again. Never being good at full offence and not having enough patience to run stall I took the best of both worlds and created a rather simple balanced team based around SubBounce Gyarados and WishCM Jirachi core. I’ve managed to maintain a steady winning record so far, but with competition getting tougher and tougher as I climb up the ladder, I realized that I’ll need some advice on how to make this team better. After all, there’s never enough room for improvement, right?

    The team you’re going to see is a product of over 5 months of playing. As you can probably guess it barely even resembles the original idea I had in my mind back in June, but I’m very happy with how it came out. Rates and suggestions are welcome!

    Uxie @ Leftovers
    [​IMG]

    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 88 SDef / 76 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave
    - Zen Headbutt


    Choosing a suitable lead is probably the most difficult task in teambuilding if you ask me, and I always leave it for the last. This spot was so far occupied by 4 different leads, and throughout playtesting I found that Uxie does the best job at starting the game in my favor. The set is relatively simple, so I won’t be getting much into it – the support consists of Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave and U-turn, while Zen Headbutt is Uxie’s basic source of damage. It’s a bit weaker than Psychic, but it allows me to forgo Bold nature, keeping U-turn’s power intact. It can also flinchhax, which - combined with Thunder Wave paralysis - proved to be quite helpful at times.

    EVs are a bit random, and probably need to be worked on. Max HP is a given, and 76 Spd puts me 2 points ahead of Jolly Tyranitar. This isn’t a speed creep mind you - Uxie was just lucky enough to hit a “magic number”, giving him one free point to Speed. The rest was shared evenly between Defence and Sp.Defence. I haven’t done any massive damage calculations with this spread yet, but so far it’s been working quite well.

    Checks ridiculous number of stuff. Uxie is my go-to Pokémon whenever I feel the situation is getting out of hand. He helps me restore the momentum with a slow U-turn to a designed check, or by slowing down the opponent’s sweeper with Thunder Wave. Excellent support mon, really.

    And how does Uxie fare against the most popular leads?

    Azelf – I usually T-Wave first since most Azelf either don’t use Taunt anymore or expect Uxie to be a TrickScarfer, then U-turn to Gengar to absorb Explosion. Or, if I’m feeling ballsy, follow the Thunder Wave with Stealth Rock, and then U-turn. Hilarity ensues when they bring a ScarfTar hoping to lock me into Trick. Too bad, you’re now completely useless for the rest of the match.

    Machamp – easy match up. Stealth Rock, take Payback for less than 50% HP, U-turn to Skarmory and BB him to death. Or Spike if I predict a switch.

    Aerodactyl – similar to Azelf, but those always carry Taunt, so I need to U-turn straight to Flygon and defeat him with Draco Meteor.

    Metagross – Stealth Rock, then U-turn to Skarm who uses him as a set-up fodder. Easily the best possible match up.

    Heatran – T-Wave first to render his Speed advantage moot. It then gets a bit tricky since he can either Explode or Fire Blast, but I usually manage to make a right choice.

    Infernape – lol.

    Roserade – I need to sac something to sleep, and unfortunately it’s usually Uxie who has to do the job. Fortunately none of my Pokémon is affected by Toxic Spikes, so I can easily use those free turns to set up with Gengar or Jirachi.

    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    [​IMG]

    Trait: Keen Eye
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 172 Def / 20 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird


    Entry hazard support part two! The set is nothing out of ordinary, so I’ll focus on how I use Skarmory in battle. Generally, I try to get my Spikes down as fast as possible (as early as turn 3), then go on full offence. I tend not to get greedy when laying them on the field (1 layer is completely optimal), since I can’t afford to give free turns for things like Heatran or Zapdos. My team also lacks a dedicated spinblocker, so wasting 3 turns (or 4 if we add Uxie’s SR) setting up hazards only to have them blown away by Starmie completely ruins my momentum. Sometimes I go as far as using Skarm as a death fodder mid game when I want to speed my game up. Otherwise she serves me as an excellent counter to most of the physical threats in the game, including the ubiquitous Scizor.

    You might be wondering why I’m using the old EV spread for Skarmory. The reason is simple, I still consider it the best. 64 Atk lets me 2HKO Offensive Gyara with Brave Bird after Rocks, so rather than WWing and letting him wreak havoc later I can kill him right of the bat. 20 Speed is speed creeping, but I just like Whirwinding other Skarms before they WW me.

    Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
    [​IMG]

    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split


    It’s amazing how one move can make a whole world of difference for a Pokémon. After Hypnosis got nerfed in Platinum and Bullet Punch Scizor started rearing its ugly head I thought Gengar would forever be stuck in the mid-low OU. HG/SS arrived, and Gengar is back in top 5 where he always belonged, hehe. History aside, this is the now-standard SubSplit Gengar we all know and love. I used to have Jolteon as my fast special sweeper of choice, but I quickly found out that he was completely useless against stall, so I switched to Gengar instead.

    The fastest Pokémon in my team. Probably the most replaceable one as well. Can act as a SpinBlocker of sorts, but he’s not very reliable. And before you ask, yes I tried ScarfRotom (Heat forme) over him, and it was absolutely horrible. I really can’t tell why… maybe I was just using it wrong?

    Flygon (M) @ Life Orb
    [​IMG]

    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Earthquake
    - Roost
    - Fire Blast

    MixGon, woo. Fantastic lure for bulky waters like Swampert, who stops my Jirachi / Gyarados core cold, and ResTalk Gyarados, who is a general pain in the ass to take down. Spikes benefit this dude greatly, since his basic damage output is rather low and he has troubles 2HKOing or OHKOing certain walls without them. Roost increases his durability, which is not too shabby considering Flygon’s natural immunity to most forms of residual damage.

    I pumped a bit more EVs into Speed since standard MixGon was a bit too slow for my liking and I didn’t find myself using Earthquake very often either.

    Gyarados (F) @ Leftovers
    [​IMG]
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Substitute
    - Waterfall
    - Bounce



    My absolute favorite Pokémon in competitive play. It’s hard to make a team that doesn’t benefit from Gyarados, she’s just that good. This is my attempt at being creative – SubBounce Gyarados is a fine set that works wonderfully with minimum support and I encourage you to give it a try. Her main advantage over a typical offensive DD Dos is the ability to beat Breloom 1 on 1, simply Sub as he Spores and go from there. Sub also allows me to scout possible Starmie / Rotom switches and block status moves from things like Celebi and Shaymin (Leech Seed). And while we’re on the topic of bulky Grass types, Gyarados can easily dispatch them with a well-timed Bounce. Water / Flying in general has an excellent neutral coverage, only losing to Empoleon who still takes a lot of damage from my DD boosted attacks. Bounce also has an ability to paralyze counters, so ScarfRotom and Zapdos need to be wary when switching in, and finally, it combines nicely with Waterfall flinchhax, which actually won me a few games.

    Of course Substitute makes Gyarados lose its HP faster than it already does, so some external support is needed. Jirachi has perfect synergy with Gyarados and can easily pass Wishes to her. This way Gyara has an easy time switching into things like Heatran’s Fire Blast with Stealth Rock up AND still posses the ability to produce a Substitute if necessary.

    I tried to come up with some clever EV spread, until I realized that a simple 252 / 4 / 252 Adamant one does just fine.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    [​IMG]

    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 236 HP / 96 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt


    Jirachi, the Mary Sue of Pokémon world. As much as I hate Psychic’s crappy coverage it does get a neutral hit on Electric types, which threaten my team a lot (see below). Aside from sweeping and stall breaking she provides my team with Wish support, which is especially appreciated by Gyarados and Uxie.

    EVs were customized to my liking. 176 Spd with Timid nature outspeeds Jolly Lucario, 236 HP hits Leftovers number (401) and the rest was thrown into SpA to give her some extra punch.

    My main check for Starmie, as well as other specially-based Bulky Waters. I usually need to bring her in with Uxie’s U-turn or after a kill, otherwise she risks being 2HKOed by LO Hydro Pump.

    T*H*R*E*A*T*S


    -[​IMG] Offensive Electric types [​IMG]– absolutely horrible. Even Electivire threatens to sweep my team if he grabs a Motor Drive boost. And if any of them has Hidden Power Ice all I can do is sit in a corner and cry. They actually forced me to change Flash Cannon to Psychic on Jirachi, but I still have a hard time dealing with them. Thoughts on how to remedy this problem?
    - LO Starmie [​IMG] – she fucks my team pretty badly, from spinning away my entry hazards to blasting away powerful attacks that I can’t wall with anything. My main way of beating her is to U-turn from Uxie to Jirachi, and start setting up CMs or try to hit her with Thunderbolt.
    - Mixed Kingdra [​IMG] – a rare threat, but a threat nonetheless. The main problem comes from the fact that I can’t hurt her much with any of my attacks (aside from Flygon’s Draco Meteor, but he’s outsped and KOed). The best I can do is to try to paralyze her with Uxie, which doesn’t always work out. Any ideas on how to counter this beast?
  2. undisputed

    undisputed
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    Hi Redtype,

    This is a cool team you have going here and seems to be pretty solid already. When I looked at your team, I believe that you should try out Leech Seed Shaymin instead of Flygon. It is a great switch in to all the threats you mentioned in your threat list, and on top of that, it forces a lot of switches for your team to take advantage of with Spikes support. In addition, a lot of Pokemon that counter CM Jirachi are easily taken care of by Shaymin like Hippowdon and Swampert via Leech Seed or Seed Flare. Typically, you'll want to get it in often and early, and make sure that the opponent has no reason to stay in. This will keep Shaymin at good health for the rest of the match. A lot of players make the mistake of sending it in to Leech Seed when the opponent has no reason to keep their current Pokemon alive, and consequently, they lose a lot of Shaymin's health unnecessarily. Also, for you reference, Starmie fails to KO full health Shaymin with Hydro Pump and Ice Beam. Here is the set:

    Other than that, I don't have much else to say. Good Luck with your team!
  3. NightShadow

    NightShadow

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Alright, I haven't rated a team in a while, so I decided to rate this one. This is a really solid team. I personally think you have a weakness to special attackers in general.

    Threats:
    - Choice Specs Jolteon
    - Offensive LO Zapdos
    - Specially based variants of Kingdra
    - LO Starmie


    These special attackers screw up this team pretty badly from what I see. They troll all of your Pokemon bar none. Luckily, one change simple change can be made to solve this problem, though you have a choice.

    Solutions:
    - Choice Scarf Flygon
    - Choice Band Snorlax


    OR

    The choice is yours. Flygon is a more reliable counter, though it doesn't hit that hard, though it gives your team a much-needed revenge-killer. Its not hard to see why Flygon is a top-tier OU Pokemon, and one of the most coveted revenge-killers in the Standard metagame. Snorlax, on the other hand, maintains this hard-hitting theme of your team, and forces a ton of switches which it takes advantage of by hitting the switch-in incredibly hard. It also has great Special Defense.

    Overall, great team. Good luck!
  4. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hey I got your message, this team is actually pretty cool! The threats are exactly as you've noted, and they shouldn't be hard to patch up at all. I'm also probably going to repeat the people above me, so sorry for that.

    Anyways, I think scarfing Flygon is a pretty easy fix. With a scarf, you now have a pretty viable check to a lot of annoyances- with some prediction, he can outspeed most of your "problem Pokemon" and earthquake/ u turn them.

    [​IMG]@ Choice Scarf
    252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpDef
    Jolly
    -Earthquake
    -Outrage
    -U turn
    -Toxic

    This differs ever so slightly from the standard set. The extra point is dumped into special defense so that Porygonz gets an attack boost instead of special attack. Toxic is used over any other fourth move because things like SubRoost Zapdos could be really, really annoying and taking them out of commission is always cool. It also allows you to hit Suicune in a pinch. Flygon also gives you a great revenge killer, something you previously lacked.

    A simple note about Uxie. Having used a pretty similar set before, I used one that beats Roserade and Smeargle so that they don't get in the way. Try this set instead:

    [​IMG]@ Lum Berry
    200 HP / 80 SpAtk / 12 SpDef / 216 Spe
    Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Stealth Rock
    -U turn
    -Psychic
    -Thunder Wave

    This functions very similarly to your old set, but 2HKOs Machamp, Roserade and Smeargle and outspeeds them too, so thanks to Lum Berry you always come out alright.

    That's all the advice I have, I hope this helps!
  5. Boondocker

    Boondocker

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    Ok here we go. Normally i would never suggest using uxie but on this team its not too bad. Reason being it lets stall set up spikes early against you. Only 1 of your members is actually hit by spikes so its not that big of a deal. However i still think he should go, for the simple fact that he does almost nothing for the team except beat certian leads. Move skarm to the lead spot.

    Skarm @lum
    252hp 252spD 4spa
    ~sr
    ~spikes
    ~whirlwind
    ~roost/taunt/brave bird

    Brave bird ensures you beat machamp. Taunt stops slower leads from setting up sr witch will help gyra alot. Roost keeps you alive longer. Now you have a free spot. I like the snorlax suggestion by night shadow. You can try a curselax set too if you want, he pairs pretty well with jirachi and gyrados. Jirachi can wishpass to snorlax so it doesnt have to use rest and gyra beats most fighting types (jirachi does too).

    Snorlax @ leftovers
    168hp 88def 252 spD careful
    ~curse
    ~body slam
    ~fire punch
    ~rest/explosion/crunch/eq

    Since you have spikes you need a better spin blocker. I know you dont like him but a scarf rotom would be the best thing over gengar. This team has alot of threats covered and doesnt absolutely NEED a scarfer...but without one mixape rapes you..as does suicune. If you dont want to use rotom you can change flygons set to a scarf set and make rotom a sub painsplit version.

    Rotom@scarf
    252hp 252spe 4spa timid
    ~shadow ball
    ~thunderbolt
    ~wil-o-wisp
    ~trick

    I would also make gyrados bulkier and change the set. But if it works for you keep it. Ive never actually tested it. This might be good though:

    Gyra@leftovers
    156hp 72att 96 def 184 spe
    ~dd
    ~waterfall
    ~stone edge/bounce
    ~protect

    Bulky gyra eves. Protect stops scarfers from bluffing electric attacks. Flygon wants to u-turn? Rorom wants to shadow ball? Dance again and sweep them. Protect also lets you recover more hp in a sandstorm.
  6. Faladran

    Faladran twitch.tv/faladran
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    Hey Redtype. So as you've mentioned, opposing Electric-types can be really troublesome for this team to face. In particular, most variants of Jolteon can almost single-handedly sweep through this team. The first change I'd like to suggest would be to use Choice Scarf Flygon over your current set. While Mix Flygon can be really effective in some situations, Scarf Flygon is a much better fit for this team. It allows you to check both Jolteon and Starmie, while providing you with a useful late-game cleaner with Spikes support. I also think that Gyarados could benefit from a set change. Substitute is a unique idea, but it really causes Gyarados' survivability to suffer when Stealth Rock is factored in. A standard Taunt Gyarados set could potentially work well, but RestTalk is also an option. The latter would give you a useful status-absorber as well as an additional phazer to help you abuse the entry hazards that Skarmory and Uxie set up.

    Good luck!
  7. Redtype

    Redtype

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    Thanks for the help guys, I'll try everything you suggested. :heart:
  8. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
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    Hi there, this seems to be an excellent team you've got here, as it demonstrates the use of a strong strategy while also incorporating a great sense of synergy and "reliability' between the Pokemon in the team. However, as others have said Jolteon seems to be this team's bane as well as a couple of other Pokemon which may be troublesome in my opinion. The foremost would be taunt dragon dance Gyarados as it can easily set up a dragon dance on Skarmory then proceed to sweep through the rest of your team; even you entry hazards (bar stealth rock) won't help you deal with this threat as they did against Jolteon.

    To remedy these these problems our team currently has, I'll recommend a couple of changes, First of all, as many raters have already recommend, I too suggest replacing your mixed Flygon (which is undoubtedly a great sweeper but seems out of place on this team) with the standard choice scarf variant, but with Thunder Punch. This change will help you against both of the aforementioned threats while also giving you team a bit more insurance against bulky water types which, in the right scenario can cause problems. Along with Flygon, I also recommend you change your Gyarados variant for reasoning already explained by Fala.... Jirachi. Although unlike the aforementioned suggested, I don't recommend replacing Gyarados with the ret talk variant as in my opinion and offensive dragon dance variant is needed to soften up the opponent's team, allowing Jirachi to fully abuse its offensive potential. I recommend replacing your current Gyarados variant with the bulky dragon dance one for all of the aforementioned reasons. I hope this has helped, and good luck!

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