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Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by GRB1, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. GRB1


    Sep 23, 2012
    Improving upon my previous team, Team Hypernova, I have now decided to make some changes in members and EV distribution. However, more than half of team Hypernova is returning for another round. This team relies on much of the same sun-based tactics of it's predecessor, except with more emphasis on entry hazards, which my team previously struggled with. I believe I have created my best sun team as of yet, and I cannot wait to unleash all 10^46 Joules(Energy output of an average hypernova) upon my opponents! (Changes are in bold)

    The Late Game Sweeper/Anti-Lead (Yes I see the contradiction)
    Kyurem-W: Modest @ Choice Specs
    4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
    Draco Meteor | Ice Beam | Earth Power | Fusion Flare

    Pretty self explanatory. I use it as my anti-lead, click either one of its STABs and leads die. I then subsequently switch to have this beast in my pocket for when the sun is out and ready for a late game sweep. Focus Blast and Fusion Flare are obviously for type coverage(and to abuse that sky high SpA and the blessing of Groudon's sun XD). Many common leads are easily OHKO'ed by it's STABs. It especially helps against rain leads like Kyogre. "Go crazy" has never before been such an appropriate statement.

    Weather/Entry Hazard Lead
    Groudon:Impish @ Leftovers
    216 HP | 252 def | 4 spD | 36 Spe
    Earthquake | Stealth Rock | Fire Punch | Roar

    Groudon is a returning pokemon from my previous team with different EV placement and the addition of Roar for Dragon Tail and T-Wave switched for Fire Punch. Groudon should have an easier time now that Kyurem-W deters(or utterly obliterates) many things that threaten him. Earthquake is so I don't get screwed by Taunt. Earthquake is enough to 2HKO standard Darkrai. I was thinking about going Lum but I weighed the benefits of HP restoration vs first turn status and I ended up going with the HP. Stealth rock makes Reshiram's enemies ripe for the picking. The prehistoric monter also helps take care of Zekrom and rock types that threaten Reshiram.

    The Main Sweeper
    Reshiram: Modest @ Life Orb
    4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
    Tailwind | Blue Flare | Roost | Dragon Pulse

    I switched my Choice Specs with a life orb from last team and added Flame Charge to set up speed boosts. Personally, I continue to believe that with sun support, this is the best sweeper in Ubers right now. With proper EVs, it ties a large group of users in speed except for a select few, and it's dual stabs get neutral coverage on every pokemon in the game. The sun that backs up it’s already decimating Blue Flare is unbelievable. Dragon Pulse serves as a consistent and powerful STAB.

    The Kyogre Counter/Avenger
    Palkia:Timid @ Choice Scarf
    4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
    Draco Meteor | Thunder | Fire Blast | Surf

    Another veteran. I've always been a fan of Palkia, as it scares away Kyogre, and I can surprise Ferrothorn and Forretress with Fire Blast. Plus, it is far and away my favorite revenge killer. AND it helps deal with other Palkia and some fire, dragon, or ground types that wall and threaten Reshiram, such as Ho-oh. AND it functions like a beast in any weather, especially with Fire Blast and Hydro Pump.

    The Great Wall/Tank
    Ho-Oh: Adamant @ Leftovers
    4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 SpD
    Sacred Fire | Brave Bird | Earthquake | Recover

    Ho-Oh can function as an outstanding wall and a great offensive tank. This is even truer under sun, where Ho-Oh becomes a potent sweeper and water attacks are mitigated. Ground types can do nothing to this beast as I Recover and throw a Brave Bird in Kyogre's fat whale face.

    The Late Game Sweeper
    Arceus(Normal)Adamant @ Life Orb
    240 HP | 252 Atk | 16 Spe
    Swords Dance | ExtremeSpeed | Earthquake | Shadow Claw

    My last returning veteran. ExtremeKiller Arceus is one of my favorite late game sweepers along with Kyurem-W. Sturdy, and extremely potent, as a sweeper should be. It's also helpful taking down other pokemon faster than Reshiram, opposing Groudon, Kyogre, and the like. There's not too much else to describe about this guy. Everyone knows the ExtremeKiller. Sometimes, that's not necessarily a good thing.

    Well that is my team! Please rate, correct and advise all you can!
  2. Porygon2


    Oct 9, 2012
    Hey GRB1, interesting Sun team you got there!

    Personally, I love the concept of offensively inclined Sun based teams, but they generally have a pretty big Stealth Rock weakness, and unfortunately, your team isn't any different when it comes to said weakness. However, your team does do exceptionally well against most of the common Stealth Rock users. In fact, the only Pokémon that can reliably set up Stealth Rock against your team are Deoxys-S, Deoxys-A and Chansey. I'm sure you're not looking to add a Rapid Spin user to your team, seeing as that would greatly reduce the offensive momentum, which you desperetely want to maintain, and isn't very reliable in this metagame, seeing as the common spinblockers are such good and sturdy Pokémon. However, adding a Rapid Spin user isn't your only option to prevent the aforementioned Stealth Rock users from doing their thing (Stealth Rock isn't even that common on Deoxys-A and Chansey), Xatu can also effectively keep the dreaded levitating rocks off the field. Although Xatu may seem very situational, it does what it's supposed to do amazingly. Deoxys-S, the main threat to your team when it comes to Stealth Rock users, has absolutely nothing on it. You might be thinking that Xatu becomes an absolute waste of space if the opponent doesn't bring the Pokémon Xatu is supposed to shut down, but that actually isn't the case at all.

    Xatu shuts down Smeargle completely, whereas right now, you would be forced to let at least one Pokémon go to sleep, which could be crucial. With Xatu, you can just U-turn after Smeargle uses any attack, to then just pick it off with ExtremeSpeed from Arceus. Xatu would function the same way against Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A, in case you hadn't realized that yet. Seeing as Xatu really only needs U-turn to successfully function on your team, you have room for two very interesting support options: Light Screen + Reflect and Tailwind. With Light Screen and Reflect, Xatu can support Arceus nicely and I don't even want to think about facing Kyurem-W, Reshiram or Ho-Oh with doubled Speed. I realize it might seem like a bad idea, placing a UU like Xatu in a metagame filled with Pokémon that would easily dispose of it, but it has a very unique niche and I think it would perform well on your team. Of course, if you believe that Xatu isn't necessary and you prefer to keep the members you currently have, then that's perfectly fine as well.

    I think I've promoted Xatu enough for now lol, however, another change I would like to recommend is using Tailwind over Flame Charge on Reshiram. Although the pretty short duration of the Speed boost might be off putting, the multiple advantages Tailwind brings make the change worth it. First of all, Tailwind doubles Speed, whereas Flame Charge grants a mere 50% boost. When running Flame Charge, the following Pokémon would all be able to revenge kill you quite easily, even after your setup: Choice Scarf Palkia, Choice Scarf Garchomp, Choice Scarf Zekrom, Choice Scarf Kyurem-W, Choice Scarf Dialga and Deoxys-A. All of these are outsped and OHKOd by Reshiram when it's running Tailwind. Seeing as Reshiram won't always be able to pull the sweep through, the Pokémon you decide to bring in after the tragic fainting of your Reshiram could take advantage of the Tailwind. This way Reshiram could also still be useful when it as an attacker has lost its purpose in the battle, because you could simply use Tailwind before being killed, giving for example Kyurem-W the chance to sweep the opponent by locking itself into Ice Beam while having doubled Speed.

    A last thing I wanted to mention is that Cloyster can be threatening to your team. I don't think you need to change anything on your team, but you do need to ensure that Cloyster doesn't get a ''free'' Shell Smash. For example, even if Kyurem-W is locked into Draco Meteor and has already used it twice in a row, you cannot be scared out by Cloyster, you have to stay in and Draco Meteor again to get off that extra damage Arceus needs to kill with ExtremeSpeed. Talking about Arceus, if the opponent has a Cloyster, ensuring that Arceus can safely ExtremeSpeed Cloyster at least once should be priority #1. You were probably already aware of this, but I figured it would be worth mentioning. Especially seeing as Cloyster doesn't even need a Life Orb to OHKO your entire team after a Shell Smash.

    To conclude, I would like to congratulate you with the cool team you've made, I definitely like it a lot. :] Good luck in the future!

    Show Hide
    Xatu @ Light Clay
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - U-turn
    - Tailwind
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
  3. GRB1


    Sep 23, 2012
    Thanks a ton Porygon2. I believe I may in fact change flame charge to tailwind in order to set up other potential sweeps (mainly from Kyurem-W) and to provide a larger speed boost for reshiram (1 stage vs 2 stages) As for your other suggestions Xatu is continually suggested to me by my friends after we battle and I'm still thinking about the advantages of that and your other suggestions. Thanks again!
  4. lousy918


    Jun 15, 2012
    Your Ho-oh's EV spread is not optimal. You should shift the SpD EVs to HP to obtain 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SpD, which has a lower special bulk by about 2% but much greater physical bulk.

    Sun-boosted Blue Flare hits the blobs harder then Focus Blast does, so it's only meant for T-tar. Therefore you should rarely be using it. If you want to extend its longevity, you could add Roost > Focus Blast. Of course, this is just a suggestion, not saying it would be much better.

    I would also like to suggest Latias > Palkia / Kyurem-W / Arceus due to its immunity to Ground (hence, Spikes and T-Spikes) and access to Recover/Roost, allowing it to stay around for a much longer time, while beating Kyogre much more easily than Palkia does. I suggest getting rid of Arceus or Kyurem-W to make way for Latias and a revenge killer.

    Latias (open)

    Latias @ Soul Dew
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 112 HP / 204 SpA / 192 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Whatever you like

    The EVs allow it to outspeed Garchomp, OHKO Palkia, and the rest in HP for more bulk. There are too many options for the last slot, such as HP Fire, so put what you like.
  5. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut

    Jul 13, 2011
    Ooft, you're running a team with Ho-Oh, Kyurem-W and Reshiram, yet have no spinner or Magic Bounce User? If your opponent gets stealth rock down, you're playing with a massive disadvantage and have no way of getting rid of it. I'd suggest a Defensive Forretress somewhere, perhaps over Arceus.

    The Set

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef | 0 Spd IVs
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball
    - Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Volt Switch/Pain Split
    - Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Volt Switch/Pain Split

    Go with whatever you fancy for the last two slots :)

    Hope this helps!
  6. faint

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 23, 2007
    espeon or xatu will actually work better on this team since it's far more offensive, while forry works best on defensive sun teams. op can choose which one he likes more if he decides to go this route. i would say make sure xatu has u-turn or if you are using specs espeon (which is what i would use because i'm weird) go ahead and use baton pass as the 4th move.

    the problem with your team in general is that it's very bread and butter in the sense that you'll either win the game because of pure offense or you'll get destroyed. i have teams like this where i run with a charizard + xatu and find myself winning games only because of the offensive momentum i'm able to keep. but when i find myself playing an experienced player i have little to no chance of taking out more than 3 mons.

    i'm not going to suggest replacements so my comment above will still stand, but i'll give you suggestions on spreads, sets, etc.

    kyurem - white: i would drop the speed significantly and invest heavily into hp. this will help you against kyogre, specifically specs ogre which are generally always slow.

    groudon: you should always hit at LEAST 218 speed. this lets you outspeed all excadrill using the 20 speed spread found on site. this means running at least 8 speed. but personally i always run about 40 speed on my groudon. yes it's a lot but it also lets me beat opposing groudon 1 on 1 without having to rely on speed ties to do so. it also prevents the +1 speed jumps that used to be common. (referring to adding 4 speed to keep getting the jump on other mons. gira-o did this a lot in dpp)

    resh: thats a neat set so if it works for you i'd say keep on using it.

    palkia: drop hydro pump for either dmeteor or outrage. if you're running outrage change to +spe -def nature. this will further aid you when combating kyogre, specifically resttalk sets. but like i said you could always use dmeteor, just watch out for the extremekiller switch in after the spa drop.

    ho oh: that looks like the on site spread, so i guess it's fine. personally if you're running eq i would just say go pure offense and don't bother investing in bulk. regardless it's your choice.

    arceus: since you're running sun it may be wise to use overheat. you can fry ferrothorns, forrys, and skarms which otherwise combat you pretty well. although you do have resh and kyurem to break sturdy so you should be okay. silk scarf or lum berry are also good choices as items, and personally i'd consider them over lo.
  7. Furai

    Furai we will become who we are meant to be
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    May 4, 2010
    This team is weak to Extreme Killer Arceus, Blaziken, Calm Mind Kyogre, and strong Dragon Pokemon such as Rayquaza, Kyurem-B, and Kyurem-W. Once they get the chance to setup, you have nothing to stop them bar Arceus's priority, which no experienced player will leave his team that awfully weak to opposing Extreme Killers.

    Blaziken, however, can literally can sweep your team once that Groudon is weakened (not a problem at all), Arceus is gone/burned, and with its extremely wide coverage and ability to easily setup with Protect. Having no Steel-type really hurts you badly, as strong Pokemon, such as Rayquaza, can simply come in, setup, and wreck you. Mixed Dancer Rayquaza is also capable of beating Groudon with Draco Meteor. Calm Mind Kyogre can also be threatening as after a few Calm Minds even Palkia won't stand up against it; however, due to the natural offensive type of this team, repeated hits might be able to take it down, but I wouldn't rely on that solely.

    In order to slightly patch your Extreme Killer Arceus, Ho-Oh, and Blaziken weakness, I recommend Physically Defensive Giratina-O > Reshiram. Reshiram just adds up to your Stealth Rock weakness, and gives Ho-Oh more oppurtunities. Physically Defensive Giratina-O can easily take all of this threats on, and is capable of burning Arceus with Will-O-Wisp, phaze Blaziken with Dragon Tail, and smack Ho-Oh with Outrage.
    Giratina-O (open)
    Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 184 Atk / 252 Def / 72 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Outrage
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Dragon Tail
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Your problem to strong Dragon-types still stands out, so I think that changing Extreme Killer to Support Steel Arceus would be a good patch, as Steel Arceus is extremely bulky and it can easily counter the new Kyurem formes, while also being a fantastic check to opposing Extreme Killers. By utilizing Calm Mind you can also keep some momentum and have quite a punch on stall teams as well.
    Steel Arceus (open)
    Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Calm Mind
    - Judgment

    Next is your Kyogre weakness. Honestly, besides nuking things, Kyurem-W doesn't do much for you. Soul Dew Latias is probably the best counter to Kyogre that will ever exist, as thanks to her typing and her beloved item she can easily take Kyogre on. I think that Psyshock would be better for your team in order to keep momentum on your side of the field by utilizing more coverage. 192 Speed EVs is enough to outrun Garchomp, which is basically enough; you can go with max Speed by sacrificing some bulk, but I believe that your team would appreciate the bulk more. 204 SpA easily KOs Palkia with Dragon Pulse and 112 HP ensure that Modest Scarf Kyogre's, full powered Water Spout, is only a 3HKO after Stealth Rock.
    Latias (open)
    Latias @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 112 HP / 204 SpA / 192 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Psyshock

    With Latias on your team, I think you can afford removing Palkia for a much flexible Choice Scarf user: Genesect. Genesect can easily by you momentum by using U-turn, and provides an amazing glue by covering a wide array of threats: Rayquaza, Mewtwo, Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Deoxys-A... Explosion is used to get out with a bang, but Flamethrower is perfectly viable to roast Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory.
    Genesect (open)
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Explosion / Flamethrower
    - Ice Beam

    Lastly, pump up Groudon's Speed EVs to atleast 36, in order to have better chance versus Ho-Oh, and run Stone Edge > Fire Punch to actually hit Ho-Oh. You have your own Ho-Oh for Steel-types, so this might not be neccesary.

    Sorry that this rate isn't as beautiful as my others, but I'm really tired and I've got an exam to study for. Best of luck.
  8. GRB1


    Sep 23, 2012
    I am very grateful for all your suggestions and will make a few more edits later as I am currently in New York. Happy Thanksgiving!

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