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From Uu to Uber

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by metaclown, Jun 10, 2013.

  1. metaclown

    metaclown

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    From UU to Ubers
    [​IMG]

    There once lived(and still lives) a mighty bug called Heracross. His power to kill those legendary dragons was(and still is)admirable. Even though he lives in place called Underused, he doesn't mind to come to Ubers and show his real strenght--Killing Dragons and things... But there's actually only one reason why Heracross succeeds so well(IMO) in Ubers and, ladies and gentlemen that one reason is known as
    ----- DARKRAI
    -(Journal of Arceus something,something)

    What do you know people, Meta here bringing you my third total, but first Uber RMT. I hope you guys can read the whole post and make suggestions and rate, thanks for advance.. So, I'm not going to talk long( or write) here's The Team:
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] (and yes Forretress is floating)

    Teambuilding process:

    Show Hide
    First though when i started to build uber team was the weather. While rain is no doubt(correct me if I'm wrong) the most common weather in Uber-metagame.
    But, sun still provides some funny tools and most importantly, Groudon is slower than Kyogre, so sun is going to be most likely the controlling weather in beginning.
    So i decided to pick Groudon.
    [pimg]383[/pimg]
    Ater I had decided the physically defensive, weather introducer who also throw rocks.
    I though someone who would stand up against Kyogre and would also take Grass and Water attack like nothing.
    I was in two minds, either Latios or Latias. From these two I picked out Latias, mainly because of the bulk she has.
    [pimg]383[/pimg] [pimg]380[/pimg]
    After i had picked two defensive pokemon, I wanted some power! After I had look into sun sweeping, Chlorophyll Venusaur seemed to be the right choice.
    But I didn't want a third guy who would been weak to ice.
    Regenerator Ho-oH, on the other hand, didn't had ice weakness it had STAB Fire attacks and perfect regenerator.
    [pimg]383[/pimg] [pimg]380[/pimg] [pimg]250[/pimg]
    When i picked up Ho-oH I knew that rapid spin support would be more than appreciated, if one wants to switch Ho-oH in more than twice. And what i had learned about the ubers, entry hazards are more than common. And i want to switch often. Best spinner what i know is Forretress. Yes there's Excadrill and Tentacruel also, but Forretress has access to all entry hazards if wanted and he's bulkier on defensive side than Tentacruel.
    [pimg]383[/pimg] [pimg]380[/pimg] [pimg]250[/pimg] [pimg]205[/pimg]
    For next i wanted something choiced, something powerfull who would benefit from sun and also something switch-in into dragons. Answer was pretty simple, Heatran. Heatran fulfills every requirement i had for my fifth pokemon.
    [pimg]383[/pimg] [pimg]380[/pimg] [pimg]250[/pimg] [pimg]205[/pimg] [pimg]490[/pimg]
    And Because there's Darkrai roaming free and putting everything into sleep, and with the fact that i don't have any fast sweeper who would outspeed Darkrai. I decided to pick one of my favorites, who also happens to be one of the best Darkrai counters there is. The Heracross, STAB CC and Megahorn are nothing to laugh about if one does not resist the attack, strong and fast, I like. And so, my team ended up looking like this
    [pimg]383[/pimg] [pimg]380[/pimg] [pimg]250[/pimg] [pimg]205[/pimg] [pimg]490[/pimg] [pimg]214[/pimg]


    And now let's check and analyse every mon of this team

    [​IMG]
    Where's your Arceus now?

    Groudon
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Impish EV's: 252Hp, 248Def, 8Speed
    Ability: Drought
    -Earthquake
    -Fire Punch
    -Stealth Rock
    -Thunder wave


    Even though Groudon has weaknesses (don't we all?) to common types in Ubers, it's still very solid physicall wall. And in my team Groudon has important role not only he set up rocks and sun, but he is great counter to Terrakion and he can pretty much check Ho-oH's weaknesses. Earthquake does junk loads of damage even when not invested if not resisted. Fire Punch is to deal with Ferro and Forre. Thunder Wave is to cripple something faster. Ev's are just to maximize Groudons Bulk and 8 Speed ev's is to outrun other Base 90.
    Groudons bulk and power quarantee that he's not just a piece of candy to chew. He also has great synergy with Latias and Ho-oH.

    [​IMG]
    Not only am I cute, I'm also powerfull

    Latias
    Item: Soul Dew
    Nature:Timid EV's: 236Hp, 80Sp.def, 192 Speed
    Ability: Levitate
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Grass Knot
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost


    Latias is meant to check Kyogre, and she does her job well. Latias can set up CM's no matter what set Kyogre runs. And she is unstoppable after few Cm boost, of course every faster physical attacker can easily deal with this set if they can hit with something super effective move and switch in safely. Moves are basic. CM to get boost to Sp. Att and Sp. Def, and when designed to counter Kyogre Grass Knot is obvious. Dragon Pulse just strong STAB. Roost is only way how Latias can heal herself. Ev's are design to maximize Latias'es special defensive side and those speed ev's are to outspeed every none choiced max. speed dragon, expect max. speed Lati-twins.

    [​IMG]
    Show me the one who says that I have 4xweakness to Stealth Rocks

    Ho-oH
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Jolly Ev's: 252Att, 252Speed, 4Sp.Def
    Ability: Regenerator
    - Brave Bird
    - Sacred Fire
    - Earthquake
    - Tailwind


    Look at that bird! Ho-oH has been my favorite legendary since it was released, but i haven't played Ubers much so.... But now, with Regenerator this bird brings massive amounts of power to my team. His main job is to check some Ground, Fire and Fighting attacks, obviously when he's Sweeper, he's not meant to switch in every time. Great synergy with Latias(electric, bug, water), Heatran(rock, fighting, ground) and Groudon(rock, electric), maybe with Forre also when Sun decreases power of Water moves. Ev's are to maximize Ho-oH's power and speed. Attacks are just basic. Tailwind is usefull to my team, when thrown in the right place Ho-oH forces switches and if I find it usefull, I can set up Tailwind. With slow team like this, even the 3 turn speed boost is usefull. I could run more Hp ev's on Ho-oH when he's carrying Tailwind, but it's more usefull attack fast without setting up. Using Tailwind it's situational.
    [​IMG]
    If I were you, I would concider that spin blockin

    Forretress
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Sassy Ev's: 252Hp, 252 Sp.Def
    Ability: Sturdy
    -Spikes
    -Gyro Ball
    -Toxic
    -Rapid Spin


    I don't think i need to tell much about this set. Max. Sp.def to make it a "wall". And in sun when power of water attacks decreases, it's easier to Forre switch in to mons like Palkia. Moves are simple, Gyro Ball to deal with rock types(namely Terrakion, Tyranitar) and it's also usefull against Excadrill in sand. Toxic is for Arceus-Ghost and Giratina(-O). Spikes are usefull, although i don't have spinblocker. With that reason, Forre is not meant to set up spikes(of course if there's a time and place)but he's meant to spin away every hazard that would hurt my team. Forre fears fire moves, but i have Heatran to take them.
    [​IMG]
    I just decided to use smaller picture.

    Heatran
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Nature: Modest Ev's: 252Sp.Att, 252Speed, 4Hp
    Ability: Flash Fire
    -Overheat
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Hidden Power Rock
    -Earth Power

    Heatran is strong. That's it. Hahhah just kiddin. If i would need to pick couple Mon that this team has hard time to handle, well Groudon and Hippowdon (physically defensive sets). But with Heatran, my problem is no more a problem. Modest Nature brings the needed power to OHKO every Groudon, Hippo takes (77.85/-91.66%). In Ubers almost every pokemon learns Fire attacks, so in sun they can do loads of damage to my mons. With Flash Fire, Heatran can switch into attack and hit with Overheat, STAB+Sun+Flash Fire Overheat is not safe to switch in, even if one does resist it. Earth Power is meant to hit Kyogre switching in and Dialga in rain. HP-Rock for Ho-oH and Dragon Pulse to Palkia and Giratina(-O). Although running modest makes me slower than Darkrai and Mewtwo and Shaymin-S(If not carrying Earth Power can't do nothing). Synergy in mentioned so many times that i just skip it. (Choise Specs would be an option, but max speed Groudon could then OHKO me...)

    And finally it's time to Hercules-bug enter the arena
    [​IMG]
    Let's get serious

    Heracross
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Nature: Adamant EV's: 252Att, 252Speed, 4Def
    Ability: Guts
    -Megahorn
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -Sleep Talk

    Better watchout Darkrai there's a new sheriff in the town. I have played about 100-150 Uber matches and only once I've seen this bug. Even without guts boost, Hera hits decent amount of damage to everything that does not resist his hits. The main reason I use this, is Darkrai. And Kyurem-W(not scarfed), Ho-oH and BandTerrakion and Tyranitar, all of those fear Heracross, because Hera can OHKO every set of those pokemon after Stealth Rocks. Sleep Talk makes things so much easier to deal with Darkrai and now, when they are testing sleep clause it's important to take down those who can put something to sleep. Adamant nature for max power. Attacks are basic stuff, ev's also. Even though Hera is not the bulkiest pokemon he still have some switch-ins in Uber metagame. But only can switch in to resisted attack.


    So There was my first Uber RMT, I hope you guys had fun!
    And I should also mention that this team works very well, something like 15-4.

    See ya all later!

  2. dragonpokeZ

    dragonpokeZ

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    42
    That's a good team. I like it. While 3 of your 'mons are weak to Water-Type, you have a answer to them. That's pretty good.
    You should concentrate in Defense for Forretress, you alredy have a special wall. You can also try to put more Special Defense in Latias, or a Jolly Nature on Heracross. The team is good, but you could also try V-Switch and/or HP Ice in Ferro, the first to escape from Magnezone and give safe switches to a Pokémon, and the second, to do some damage to Dragon-Types and Gliscor. Believe me, even without invest, still doing good damage. With this last attack, you'll prefer Max Defense to switch into Outrage easier and kill them with HP Ice.
  3. lousy918

    lousy918

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    325
    latias needs at least 192 Spe EVs to outspeed garchomp (still a threat)
    I would strongly giving Ho-oh an EV spread of 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe as Ho-oh is really slow without tailwind and needs it to sweep, while 80 HP gives it a bit of bulk for cm Arceus and other special attackers.
    earth power on heatran does not hit many common threats outside of ttar, kabutops and terrakion, which are beaten by groudon. replace with fire blast so you can sweep with flash fire sun-boosted fire blasts.
  4. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,316
    @ dragonpokeZ: To be honest, I'd keep Forretress the way it is. It already has excellent physical bulk even without investment, Hidden Power Ice is awful in Ubers, and Magnezone is extremely rare.

    I'd suggest a little more Speed creep on Groudon (20 EVs or more), as four is just not enough. I think that Latios might be a little more suited for your team, so I'd suggest an all-out attacker Latios with Draco Meteor / Grass Knot / Psyshock / Hidden Power Fire > Latias, which helps you deal with Ho-oh better as well as the weather starters. Another thing you could do to deal with Ho-oh is run Stone Edge > Thunder Wave on Groudon.

    I see a really big Giratina-O weakness, and Heatran compounds weaknesses and doesn't add too much offensively (too slow, and not that strong, by Ubers standards). Thunder Wave, Tailwind, and two Choice Scarf users seem a little bit excessive, so I'd suggest CM Arceus-Ghost over Heatran or perhaps the support set, to deal with it and provide a spinblocker for Forretress. It also helps with the Extreme Killer.
  5. superstar

    superstar

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    319
    Do not get rid of Latias. Otherwise you pretty much insta-lose to Scarf Kyogre, even with Latios. I also wouldn't really get rid of Heatran, considering he's your best sponge to Special Dragon attacks. However, I would change his set to the Stallbreaker set on-site. Stall gives you trouble right now, and Heatran is excellent at breaking stall with a set of Taunt/Roar/Toxic/Flamethrower.

    Obviously you could use Genesect over Herracross and Giratina-O over Heatran for a more standard team, but I like the creativity here.

    One note is that if Sleep Clause is not retained, Herracross really is not an adequate Darkrai check so you should probably switch it to something else and add more sleep counters. But sleep clause should be back soon so it's not too much of an issue.
  6. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Messages:
    390
    A clear majority voted in favour of retaining Sleep Clause and it should be reinstated shortly.
  7. metaclown

    metaclown

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Thanks everyone for rates!

    @lousy918
    - Yeah I changed the speed Ev's on Latias, thanks for noticing :D
    - I tried that Ho-oh set, and it seems to work well, thanks

    @blitzlefan
    -Okay, I will put little bit more speed ev's to Groudon (24?)
    - I can't change Latios>Latias, then i wouldn't have nothing to Kyogre.
    -And like Superstar said it, I can't throw Heatran away because special dragons.
    -Girantina-O is really big threat to my team, only way I can deal with it, is just to play and plan around it. Actually Heatran succeeded well, but you're right it was not so powerfull. And i have changed it to stallbreaker

    @superstar
    -Stallbreaker Heatran works great! thanks! I had trouble with boosting arceus, but not anymore.
    -I could made the changes, but Heracross is great and have STAB CC :D. Yeah, Hera would not succeed so well if Sleep clause is not retained. If it's not retained, maybe I make a whole new team.

    Thanks for rates guys!!

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