Fury of the Storm - a Triples RMT

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Benlisted, Apr 2, 2011.

  1. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Team at a Glance

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    Introduction

    The Masked Nitpicker’s recent warstory inspired me to get involved in the severely underplayed meta that is Triples. When the generation was announced, I assumed Triples would be somewhat of a clusterfuck (pardon the expression) due to the sheer variety of options and things to attack – but upon actually examining the meta it seems Gamefreak have actually balanced it reasonably well – targeting and movement mechanics make it very strategic, and moves like Wide and Quick Guard along with the improved Mental Herb make for an elaborate game of Rock>Paper>Scissors. TMN’s warstory really opened my eyes to the awesomeness of Triples, and for that I thank him.

    Anyway, once I became interested in the meta, I revived the Triples thread and began to examine what strategies seemed to work, initially hoping to build an Eruption abuse Sun team. Upon actually testing it, I discovered that two strategies common to triples utterly dominated it – Tailwind and Trick Room both usurped my speed advantage and managed to demolish my team with either fast or slow hard hitters. I was disheartened, for Tailwind seemed like it made most weather strategies unviable, and simply outclassed all but Trick Room due to the usefulness of the speed boost and its applicability to all mons. But as I looked for a way to beat the two dominant Speed based strategies, an idea hit me. If I was able to survive the hits both Tailwind and TR sweepers threw at me for several turns, who cared if I was going first or not? A team with excellent survivability and still good offense at the cost of speed was my goal in building a somewhat anti-meta Triples team.


    Teambuilding
    Show Hide
    My initial idea was to abuse either Water or Volt Absorb so that I could heal my team whilst hitting my opponents with powerful spread moves. I decided to try a Surfspam team to take advantage of the Rain boost, as well as screwing over the other weathers in the process. Naturally the first mon was therefore Politoed.​
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    Second, I wanted a dual screener who would cut the damage my whole team received by 1/3, whilst also having good bulk and hopefully offense. Sadly, not a single Water Absorb mon can dual screen, so I had to choose from Telepathy mons for my Dual Screener. Musharna stood out as one of the bulkiest, but sadly had no offensive capability that would be helpful. However, Helping Hand and a slow Baton Pass for a safe switch-in clinched its place on my team.​
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    Third, I absolutely needed a pokemon with the move Feint to break Wide Guards my opponents may throw down, preventing my Surfs from harming them. The only water absorbing mon who could do this was the frail Toxicroak – but Dry Skin meant that he would be recovering almost 50% of his health per turn if hit by a Surf and in the rain, countering his frailty out. He also got Fake Out, making him a useful lead, and Drain Punch, letting him live for a whole match with ease (as well as killing TTar easily). This finished my lead trio.​
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    Finally, I had to choose my Surf spammers. I knew that something immune to Electric would be necessary, and my choices were the offensively useless Quagsire, or Gastrodon, who has Storm Drain rather than Water Absorb. I went with Gastrodon for increasingly powerful Surfs (as he could Recover to gain back lost health) rather than Quaggy’s useless ones. Since Water Absorb Lanturn is unreleased, I had to go for a Lapras instead for a powerful Thunder to take out opposing Water types. In the final slot, I decided to just pick the Water Absorb mon with highest SpAtk – Vaporeon – who could hopefully obliterate enemies with powerful hits.​
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    With the team built, I tested it on PO wherever I could find Triple battles. Over about 20 so far, I've only lost one, which although my opponents weren’t the best, is at least a good sign of some form! There are still a few dead-ish moveslots, however, so advice is very much appreciated. Items in brackets are adjustments for when I play the GBU meta - no Sleep Clause and Item Clause being the main differences.


    In Detail

    Stormcaller
    [​IMG]
    Politoed M @ Leftovers (Chesto Berry)
    Ability: Drizzle​
    Nature: Calm (+SpD / -Atk)​
    EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpA (11 Spe IV)​
    Surf
    Ice Beam
    Haze
    Rain Dance

    The centrepiece of the Surfspam strategy serves to neuter opposing weathers as much as boost my own moves. His EVs give him excellent bulk, even living things like STAB Thunder with a little health remaining. He used to have an escape button to allow me to escape the field as soon as possible to get a true abuser out, but it ended up being more harmful that good, primarily against Justified abusers whom I needed to take out first turn with Surf. Leftovers is the default item for some nice recovery, though when Sleep Clause is off I use Chesto Berry to ensure I can get the surf off (may switch to it all the time so Politoed dies quicker and I can get something else out).

    Surf is for healing Croak and Ice Beam to take out resistant Dragons or Grasses if need be. Haze is there to lol at teams who like to try and grab absurb amounts of boosts, though in lead situations Surf is often better to use on things like Beat Up+Terrakion when Croak Fake Outs the Terrakion, meaning it's a lot more useful late game. RD lets me renew the weather mostly if I anticipate a switchin or a faster weather move, and it helps to have something on the team with it.


    Cumulonimbus
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    Musharna F @ Mental Herb
    Ability: Telepathy​
    Nature: Relaxed (+Def / -Spe)​
    EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD (0 Spe IV)​
    Reflect
    Light Screen
    Psywave
    Baton Pass

    The second of my leads utilises dual screens to guard my team from damage, then provides whatever team support she can. EVs give almost balanced bulk, and a low Speed for a slow Baton Pass, letting me get a sweeper in safely. Mental Herb rather than Light Clay since Triples often lasts more than one or two Screen periods (and she has the bulk to get them up twice if not being excessively focused down). It also essentially guarantees me at least one Screen, and as such I like the insurance it offers.

    In play I’ll typically pick the screen of most use first, then if not Taunted go for the second, followed by either a BP if at high health, or Psywave if at very low or if something needs finishing that turn. In extremis, a first turn EB from Toed and a BP from Musharna can get Rain back up before even the second turn, which is useful to have.


    Depressor
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    Toxicroak M @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Dry Skin​
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk / -SpAtk)​
    EVs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 40 Def / 64 Spe​
    Fake Out
    Feint
    Drain Punch
    Stone Edge

    Toxicroak is primarily here for Feint abuse. His EVs give him good bulk, more physical since EQ is the most common thing hitting him. Fake Out prevents things like Terrakion attacking for a turn after being Beaten Up to +6, as well as preventing Tailwind setup etc. This serves the purpose of wasting a turn so I can get a screen up and either a Surf off or a sweeper in whilst they have to retry and setup. Finally, it can prevent damage to Croak for a turn so I can get a screen up if he is overtly threatened.

    Feint is the key to this set of course. Wide Guard is a huge obstacle to me, and repeatedly Feinting can easily prevent it if need be. Breaking Protect can also speed up my bringing the hurt to the opponent. Drain Punch is excellent for recovery more than damage – letting my heal sometimes 50%+ a turn. Tyranitar is the main thing this hits aside from this, and SE is a good way to deal with Thundurus who can maim my team with Thunder, or Tornadus who destroys Croak with Hurricane. Sitrus Berry>Lefties since he can be victim to a 2HKO from things with a STAB SE attack, and this helps him survive this (sometimes).


    Cataract
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    Vaporeon F @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Water Absorb​
    Nature: Modest (+SpA / -Atk)​
    EVs: 16 HP / 236 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe​
    Surf
    Hydro Pump
    Ice Beam
    Hidden Power Grass

    This is a very straightforward set. The strongest Surfspammer, boosted by Specs to be able to 2HKO whole teams. EVs mean it is rarely 2HKOd by any combination of moves under screens. Survivability beyond that isn’t really needed as it is often what I send in when Toed dies early on, purely to get in some early damage alone. 4 Spe EVs is simply a habit to outspeed same base mons with no investment.

    The other moves are very rarely used. Hydro Pump is for if Croak dies and Wide Guard spam is occurring, Ice Beam and HP Grass for coverage in the Water Absorbers, or Dry Skin mons.


    Icefloe
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    Lapras F @ Leftovers (Lum Berry)
    Ability: Water Absorb​
    Nature: Modest (+SpA / -Atk)​
    EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 128 SpA / 12 Spe​
    Surf
    Ice Beam
    Thunder
    Heal Bell (Safeguard)

    Lapras is primarily here for coverage issues, but also helps as a Cleric. EVs are typical for this team which has naturally higher SpDef (and since most spread attacks it’s hurt by are physical). Spe is to outspeed TTar with no investment, since it can hit it with several SE attacks.

    Surf is the obligatory teamheal, but she is the most likely member of the team to be using Ice Beam since she gets STAB, or Thunder (since she actually gets it) to hit things which resist water. Heal Bell can be useful to clear the team of paralysis or Toxic annoying it, especially if a battle goes on for some time. Fighting weakness is unfortunate, but by the time she comes out the enemy has generally clicked that they should be attacking Vappy or something else instead. In GBU I use Lum Berry and Safeguard to ensure I can get a team protect off if leading against a Smeargle or Spore abusers for instance, and again I may switch to it in normal matches too, as repeated sleep would still bring me down, and any turn I'm not spamming surf means less recovery for someone.


    Riptide
    [​IMG]
    Gastrodon M @ Leftovers
    Ability: Storm Drain​
    Nature: Calm (+SpD / -Atk)​
    EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpA​
    Surf
    Hidden Power Grass
    Substitute (Ice Beam)
    Recover

    Gastrodon was originally selected for his electric immunity, but since then he’s become one of my deadliest sweepers of sorts. If I can get another Surfspammer in beside him, his SpAtk is at +1 before he even moves, meaning he is almost as powerful as Vaporeon initially and proceeds to grow more and more so every turn. EVs are more in Defence to help take Rock Slides and similar from Terrakion whilst Surfing it to death.

    Surf and HP Grass lets me take out many threats with relative ease, whilst Recover keeps me alive if need be. Substitute replaces Clear Smog (which was never used) to help him dodge Toxics which he dislikes, as well as avoid anything which may be looking to Worry Seed him whilst grabbing his first SpAtk boosts. The extra coverage Earth Power would give isn’t really needed anyway. In GBU where I have Safegurad to assist him dodging Toxics, I can however switch to Ice Beam to assist taking down Dragons and Grasses, but outside of it it is good insurance to have.


    Threat Plans

    Wide Guard – Feint from Toxicroak usually stops it in its tracks, if not then Hydro Pump from Vappy can be used along with my coverage moves.

    Justified/Anger Point abuse – Haze can remove boosts once they occur, Fake Out can prevent either the boost or preferably the attack from the abuser the first turn, and once a Screen is up either Gastrodon or Toed should be able to take them out with a boosted Surf.

    Opposing Water immune pokes – Between Thunder and two HP Grasses the water type immunes are dealt with, and Ice Beam hits the Grass-types who have the abilities.

    Trick Room – Fake Out /Encore can delay the setup or maybe remove the effect immediately. My screens, healing and bulk investment generally trumps them as they use moves to setup.

    Tailwind – The frailty of their sweepers generally falls to my bulk and repeated surfing.

    Sandstorm – Ttar takes huge damage from Drain Punch and is undersped by Toed. Hippowdon gets utterly maimed by surfs.

    Hail – Half my team resists Ice, letting me resist Blizzard if outsped and try to get Rain back up. Freezes may prove problematic, however.

    Sun – Utterly undersped by Toed, letting me get the advantage and Surf the Sun team into the ground.​
  2. Dragonmist19

    Dragonmist19

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    i really have nothing to say about this team besides the fact of people on smogon dont care for people when they say there team hasent been beat.
  3. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    I'm sorry you feel that way DragonMist, I just like to provide a measure of success for every team I post - and the only one I have is the wins this team has since noone plays the triples tiers. I freely admit that many of the players I faced were not the best, indeed I haven't run into any of the #1 peaked triples teams on PO yet, so I have to report what has actually happened to the team. In any case, 15 battles is hardly a large sample, and if at the bottom of a ladder a 15 win streak is neither inconcievable nor a great achievement, for example.

    I have a feeling it could be improved a fair amount - which is why I posted it - since I have a ton of filler moves and the item synergy within the team means I sometimes waste turns with Escape Button etc. I would like to build this team on cartridge, so I want to help it be the very best possible, and that's why I posted it for the raters to see.
  4. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    The people on Smogon do care that this team has been tested. You are not a mod. Do not post in an RMT unless you have advice for the team. Also, learn English.

    Benlisted, your team looks good from where I'm sitting. If I met it on Random Wi-Fi, I'd probably disconnect the moment I saw Drizzle Politoed, but that's neither here nor there.

    Your only stat-boosting comes in the form of Gastrodon's Storm Drain, which means that Haze might be a very good option on your Politoed or Vaporeon. You could also try Toxic since your team is so bulky.

    On a support Pokemon, I always like to have one move that does damage in case of a Taunt. You've got Mental Herb, so maybe that's a non-issue. If you did put something on, it'd probably be Psywave. That could be very useful if Musharna ends up being your last Pokemon in a tough match. Doesn't sound like you've had many tough matches on PO, though, so maybe it's not worth it.

    On Toxicroak, you should definitely try Sitrus Berry over Leftovers for a bunch of reasons. First, Toxicroak is your frailest Pokemon, so it's the least likely to survive the five rounds of recovery necessary to make Leftovers better than Sitrus Berry. Even if it usually does survive five rounds, Sitrus Berry can activate mid-turn, which may very well save you in situations where Leftovers wouldn't. If there's one piece of advice you take from my post, make it this.

    Another move you should consider on this team in general is Substitute. Usually it's a mediocre choice for Double and Triple battles, but your team could really make good use of it. Even when a Pokemon has a Substitute up, it can still benefit from Water Absorb, Dry Skin, and Storm Drain. (I've only tested Motor Drive/Substitute in Gen 5, but the others should work this way too.) Of course it also screens out stat moves, especially ones that could turn your team against itself. For instance, it could prevent your Toxicroak from being killed by your Vaporeon's Surf after a well-timed Gastro Acid/Worry Seed/Simple Beam/Entrainment. With your bulkiness and screens, Substitute could really help you out, especially on Toxicroak and Gastrodon.

    The rest of your team looks good. You might consider putting Safeguard and Lum Berry on your Lapras instead of Heal Bell. If you have a problem with its Fighting weakness, Chople Berry could work, too. I don't think it's been released yet, though.

    Good luck with the team!
  5. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Now you mention it, Haze does sound like a nice option on something to erase multiple stat changes at once, as opposed to Clear Smog only hitting one. If I didn't have Specs on Vappy it'd go on her in an instant, but obviously that isn't ideal (though I'll keep it in mind). Toed would be great with it, but if something on the first turn tries to boost (most threatening ones are +6 Atk things) then he really needs to Surf to try and kill it whilst Croak Fake Outs it. Moreover, being hit and EBing out when needing to Haze isn't too attractive. However, since I haven't used Encore successfully at all, I'll put it over it for lategame use, which may save my neck and will free up a slot on Gastrodon. Toxic may go on Vappy if I find that Hydro Pump is never used, but I kinda like the insurance of the sole targeted water move. I'll probably give Toed Toxic since he hasn't needed RD and switching and EB let me set Rain more than enough.

    Hmmm, Psywave does sound an attractive prospect (I actually had no ida what it did until I looked it up), I may well replace Helping Hand for it if I end up getting Taunted a whole lot (which hasn't happened yet strangely). However, atm the set is working really well - and if I do get Taunted the wasting of two moves to effectively stop Musharna is a reasonable benefit. The main thing I use HH for, however, is to hit things slightly harder - which Psywave would let me do too, so I'll try it out.

    Croak does tend to survive over 5 turns most of the time, pretty much solely due to his epic recovery, so lefties do pay their way. However, I haven't faced too many STAB EQ/Acrobat/Hurricane users, which would utterly maim him, especially if my water mon in the centre is forced not to Surf, and he is usually the first team member to go down. I'll try out a Sitrus Berry on him, as in this sort of situation it could really save my skin, given the huge importance of his Feint.

    Sub does look very attractive, warding off status in addition to stopping my abilities being turned against me, etc. Sadly I really don't want to drop anything on Croak - all but FO are essential, and the usefulness of FO is either game-saving or not too great :\. I'll give it a go if he doesn't seem too good for sure, however. I'll think about it on the rest of my team for sure, but my main issue is that if something looking to hit me with a Burn, Toxic, Worry Seed etc comes in, it'll almost certainly be faster than me, meaning I have to preemptively sub, which when under attack, is unlikely to stay intact despite my team's bulkiness. If I use it retrospectively so something else surfing doesnt kill a WSed mon for instance, then it'd be better to switch to a water absorb mon in most cases, or just to sac the mon for a free switch. It seems a tad situational, so I'll keep an eye out for times it'd be very useful to me before I add it in en masse, I think. On Gastrodon I probably will use it since he has nothing else to do with one slot, but anyway XD.

    Lapras with Safeguard was something I considered, but in the end I decided that the turns the opponent spends Toxicing my team will be wasted by a single Heal Bell, and possibly make them reuse the status moves, wasting more time - hence why I chose it over the generally better Safeguard (for doubles/triples at least). So far her Fight weakness hasn't troubled me too much, but if it becomes an issue I'll certainly give her a Chople when it's released too.

    Thanks very much for the rate, I really appreciate it. Sorry if I was inconsistent about some of the stuff I asked for advice on, after testing it a bit just now my feelings on things like FO have become more strong :\. Also, we now have the exact same post count :| weird..
  6. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    I don't play triples that much but your team looks amazing so far. I don't have anything to say except that only West Sea Gastrodon have Storm Drain (you have a sprite of an East Sea Gastrodon).
    [​IMG]
  7. TheMaskedNitpicker

    TheMaskedNitpicker Triple Threat
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Hey, no problem. You're a lot more familiar with this team than I am.

    I hadn't considered the wasted-turns angle on Heal Bell. That's a good call. The main reasons I recommended Safeguard instead are that a sleeping Lapras can't use Heal Bell and that Safeguard prevents confusion, which Heal Bell doesn't cure (to my knowledge).

    Actually, I was thinking you'd replace Baton Pass rather than Helping Hand on your Musharna. But if switching in near the end of the round is crucial to your strategy, I can see how you'd want to keep it. I've found that Helping Hand is great with Mental Herb because if you get taunted once, you can use Helping Hand next round, knowing that you'll get it off before you get taunted again. Then you can switch out, etc.

    I hope Haze works for you on Politoed. Back when my team had one, it served me well. It's much easier to predict with than Encore on a slow Pokemon like Politoed, that's for sure. Encore got nerfed pretty badly this gen anyhow.
  8. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Really? Haha that's some awesome trivia right there, I had no idea. In any case, on PO at least I'll keep the sprites as they are since otherwise it breaks my nice colour scheme :P. Thanks for the compliments too.

    Hmmm, if it blocks confusion then Safeguard looks pretty attractive - I recently almost lost to a Teeter Dance abuse team and Swagger is always a bitch. The problem is Lapras' speed and whether I can afford to use the turn Safeguarding as soon as I come in. On PO at least sleep clause is actice, so I don't need to worry about being slept there, but admittedly on Wifi if I take this team there I'll have both Item Clause active and Sleep inactive, so I will most likely take your Lum+Safeguard advice and have Lapras be an alternate lead.

    Baton Pass was one of the reasons I chose Mush in the first place really, since it and EB would let me have two healthy abusers out on the third turn with ease (as well as giving me additional options in terms of getting Rain back up VS other weathers). I tend to bring her back in to put screens back up in about half of all battles, so it is pretty valuable for that reason. If I wanted to rely on my prediction I could go with HH over it, but it and Psywave have somewhat overlapping roles in getting that additional damage on something (only HH can do it on a few mons if I assist Surf). Overall I think actually being able to cause damage>the avoiding Taunt thing you mention, since so little actually seems to carry the move, though in theory like you say it works brilliantly (and is one of the reasons I picked HH as the fourth move). However, Psywave's accuracy may piss me off in crucial situations where HH would work, so I may run them both (especially as if I surf something on the way in it'll get a reasonably heal).

    Haze has served me well in the battles since the change, letting me neutralise a +4 CMer who may well otherwise have swept the team, so its here to stay! Considering Protect on Toed in the last slot to allow switchins of my sweepers to perhaps be a tad more coordinated with Musharna, since normally Vappy goes out in Toed's place and dies as Mush gets her pass off, especially as someone other than Toed would be better carrying Rain Dance, but we'll see. Then again, the early damage with Vappy is good seeing as I often get two sweepers in when she dies and Mush passes at the same time, so it works both ways..
  9. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

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    This team officially has me interested in the triples metagame now. Looks like it would be fun as hell to play both with and against.

    Not quite sure about the escape button on politoed, but you've already mentioned its uses. You've got rain dance to set up your own weather though even if your opponent tries to set up their own.
  10. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Nice surprise to see you rating this team! Thanks XD. But yeah, you really should try out Triples, its hellishly fun and imo even better than doubles in terms of strategy. The only issue is finding battles, but on PO and to a lesser extent other servers you can simply remove all restrictions to the search to look for triple battles, which nets you one every half hour or more depending on server traffic. You may end up facing ubers, but given that most of the people playing aren't using particularly great teams that pretty much just serves to balance it lol.

    Anyway, yeah I know exactly what you mean about EB on Toed. Essentially, though, it lets me get a switchin relatively safely which is valuable, and helps me against the other weathers as you would expect. Since Croak needs to be on the field most of the time and Mush does for 2 turns at least, having a Surfspammer in asap (Vappy) to cause some real damage is incredibly useful, and her relative frailty is really helped out by avoiding damage through it. Lefties or similar really doesn't seem to do that much for it, since being hit by Surf drops its health more than is recovered, it frankly isn't worth it. Being removed from the field when I'd like to stay is an issue, but generally this is against teams who would setup - and as such Croak's FO can help it stay the one turn it may need to if it comes to it.
  11. thejoker98

    thejoker98

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    Landorus or even Lickylicky Explosion with a Ghost type and Musharna is amazing, try that, Electrode with explosion and Rain Dance maybe?
  12. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Admittedly such Explosions are really damn powerful, but both the abundance of Wide Guard/Protect and the fact that it really doesn't fit my team's theme mean that I'd have to gut my team to add it in. Thanks for the suggestion anyway, always a nice surprise to see your team on the front page!

    In any case, I've made some adjustments since I last looked at theis RMT, so will edit them into the OP.
  13. kaiijy

    kaiijy

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    What do you think about Magic Bounce Espeon replacing Musharna? Good Sp. Def, awesome Speed, can bounce all entry hazards and set up dual screens (as far as i remember).
  14. pindigo

    pindigo

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    **not a rate**
    This has officially gotten me interested in triples. Thanks. :D
  15. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    I'm unsure how MB works in Triples, but its lack of bulk physically is a little offputting. That said, bouncing everything would be pretty nice, so I may try it out.

    Also, glad to hear this team has got someone interested in Triples!
  16. Stunt

    Stunt

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    I'd definitely do something about your discharge weakness.
    When encountering opposing weather , you are pretty much dead as well.

    Wide Guard is sure to cause you trouble.
    Beat Up Terrakion Strategy will still beat you when protecting the first turn.

    We should play triples sometime so I can show you how its done ;)
  17. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Somewhat unsure why you think all the above:

    Discharge with the spread move power decrease combined with Screens and my bulk investement means I can probably avoid OHKOs or even 2HKOs on my water mons with it - not to mention the fact that all but one of my leads aren't badly impacted by it at all, and that I can Fake Out a Discharger first turn to get some damage in. Not only that, but I have Gastrodon who can be switched in to replace Toed, so I fail to see how Discharge is not manageable. You underestimate how Screens+Bulk+healing from water absorb makes my electric-weak mons very durable.

    I underspeed every weather inducer barring Hippowdon, and when my weather is up I have a huge type advantage over Sun and Sand, so I fail to see how I automatically lose to them. Hail like I mention is an issue thanks to Freezes, but Safeguard can help against that and again I underspeed Abomasnow getting the initial advantage, without mentioning that half my team resists Ice.

    The whole point of Beat Up+Terrakion is to get to +6 asap - so the whole team rarely protects, and if they do then I get Reflect up, allowing me to live Rock Slide and OHKO Terrakion on the second turn, so I don't match up badly against them really.

    Wide Guard is broken by Feint, and Croak's ability to heal nearly 50% per turn allows me to keep him alive the entire match with relative ease. I also have insurance against Wide Guard in Vappy and still get the healing from Surf even if I don't damage the opponent, allowing me to use a central surfspammer to heal my team even if Croak does go down.

    Whilst I appreciate all vaguely constructive criticism, condescending "I can show you how its done" along with merely stating (mostly incorrectly) some weaknesses my team has without attempting to suggest improvements or point out how I may in fact be weak to said strategy is really not helpful whatsoever.

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