Move Future Sight & Doom Desire

[DC-Shadow_Blaze]

Could we take a minute to talk about BalloonRachi? He's been putting in some real work for me.

Polaris (Jirachi) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SAtk / 120 Spd / 136 HP
Modest Nature
- Wish
- Doom Desire
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave

Between the support it offers its partners, and the offensive pressure it provides, I think this lucky star makes a strong case for a steel type niche in the current metagame; that of a pivot, using its special set of resistances (matching fairly well against frailer offensive archetypes) to force switches and provide opportunities for more favorable offensive match ups.

Despite the many resistances you find in the form of Aegislash, Manaphy, Bisharp, Zapdos and others, Doom Desire has helped me nab several KO's after coming up short with a bulky attacker.

This set works very well on bulky volt turn offensive, and with a balloon intact, you can shut down Bulky Ground types lacking coverage moves (Hippowdon, Gliscor), and it's pretty easy to find an opportunity to Doom Desire, then switch to a more threatening sweeper. Wish does wonders for partners such as Lando-T, Rotom, Lati@s, MegaVenusaur, and many others who could sponge hits, or snatch up free turns from the moves aimed at Rachi.

 

[Bent1ey]

MeGardevoir has an interesting opportunity to hit with this thanks to being neutral to Pursuit and hitting pretty damn hard. Also, it's going to be unexpected.

Assault Vest Reuniclus can make good use of the move IMO. It's very bulky, hits hard and can come in, throw a Future Sight, get out and Regeneration can keep Reuniclus alive pretty well.
It also learns Recover to go with Magic Guard (so it will hit even harder with Life Orb).
Slowbro/Slowking are similar, but hits far less harder (but it trades that for actually resisting attacks).

Regeneration + Future Sight is good thinking. I'll definitively test it.

 

[The Legend Waker]

This actually proved to be a viable tactic with Doom Desire Jirachi. People underestimate the threat of two attacks in one turn from opposite stats. It destroys walls and Protect can not prevent both attacks and cqn help break subs too. It was never not viable before, but that is a massive BP increase. Does Gardevoir get it? Switch into a drqgon move, Future Sight, then switch out again to something else. On bulky offense teams its a legit wallbreaker tactic. Specs users would be even better. Specs Doom Desire/Future Sight/Draco Meteor/??? Jirachi. :D

U-turn on that 4th slot or GTFO.

 

[shack]

I'm liking this, kind of like a psychic version of U-Turn.

Ok, just some theorizing here. Feel free to expand on this concept if you think something else might work better. It's more of a pivot strategy.

Espeon (Focus Sash) MAX Speed + Sp.Atk
-Future Sight
-Calm Mind/other move
-Baton Pass
-Yawn

Ideally, but unlikely you would get at least 1 CM off. Sometimes you end up in CM wars against a Reuncilus, so you might get a few off if they're greedy.

BP is there to help with Pursuit users and pass CM around.

For this strategy you would use FS followed by a Yawn on turn 2. Now he has 2 choices. He can switch out to prevent the sleep, but take the FS to the face of a hopefully non resistant type, or he can sit there and fall asleep. You can now freely BP out to a counter for whatever he switches to or use a pokemon that likes CM boosts (Greninja).

The main drawback here is that there is a chance you will have to sacrifice Espeon if you don't use Focus Sash to pull off this strategy, but the momentum you gain could be worth it. This is what could happen. You use FS, they switch to TTar/Bisharp, you BP out to stay alive or use Yawn. On the turn of Yawn they will most likely KO you if you don't have the Focus Sash. If it's a TTar, Sandstorm will KO you, BUT! you now have their physical threat asleep.

Or you can just use Yawn+FS on a standard set and use each move to force/predict switches.


Any thoughts?

EDIT: Using a Wish pass before Espeon comes in would be handy too!

EDIT2:
FS from a Choice Specs 252 Sp.Atk Espeon does a lot of damage to anything that is not Steel/Dark/Sp.Wall. Most calculations I ran do about 80-100+% damage. Right now my strategy with this is:
Switch Espeon into a hazard setter/status inducer, FS and switch out as they switch out to my Rocky Helmet Avalugg (or whoever your Physical Wall/Phazer is). Whenever anyone sees Espeon they always switch to something physical and rarely carry Pursuit. Now I have the option to Protect, Recover, Avalanche or Roar them out on the turn that FS is about to hit to guarantee some major damage or even a KO. Avalugg survives many physical hits even from super effective and boosted moves, that is why I am using him with this strategy, but using something like Skaromoy + Stealth Rock + Whirlwind could also work to guarantee a OHKO on the next turn. You have to use team preview though, if they have multiple Steel/Dark Types, then you might just want to have Espeon use Yawn instead of FS.

 

[Jojobobo]

Here's a set I posted in Gothitelle's thread that I think is pretty decent at using Future Sight:

Here's a douchebag set of my own devising:

Gothitelle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 236 HP / 60 SAtk / 212 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Future Sight
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

So this set is really optimised to provide you with a set up opportunity. Choice lock a defensive pokemon (Ferrothorn is a great example, but Deo-D is also a good pick), then Future Sight, then switch to your set up mon (preferably a sub user). Whatever comes in to counter you has to take the Future Sight, even if it's a resist it's still extra damage.

Beyond that I've tried to optimise the EVs to deal with to counter offensive variants of Mega-Venusaur so long as no hazards are in play, and provide decent bulk for other revenge killing opportunities from full health (an Adamant Banded Talonflame cannot OHKO, even with SR on Gothitelle's side). The speed is to outspeed invested positive natured 100s when you still have your Scarf, which I think is a reasonable benchmark without crapping out on bulk.

EDIT: Here's a great replay of the set in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-114719979

 

[shack]

Here's a set I posted in Gothitelle's thread that I think is pretty decent at using Future Sight:

How often does it actually work for you? As in, does that FS turn get wasted or do they just end up bringing in a Dark type? Also have you tried Choice Specs?

 

[Jojobobo]

How often does it actually work for you? As in, does that FS turn get wasted or do they just end up bringing in a Dark type? Also have you tried Choice Specs?

I've not used Choice Specs, as with Gothitelle's very Mediocre speed I didn't think it would be viable (unless you're running TR, which doesn't sound like such a bad idea actually). In terms of what happens, it really depends on the opponent - sometimes they'll forget about FS entirely and be blind-sided by it. Other times, yeah they'll swap in a dark type or a steel type - but the great thing is both of those are weak to fighting as are the pink blobs who you'd normally switch in to tank such a hit. If they don't switch in something that resists then that's even better as they're taking quite a hard hit that they can't do anything about. Whilst FS might not always be doing catastrophic damage, I'd rarely say it was wasted.

 

[Stathakis]

anybody know if future sight and/or doom desire trigger sucker punch?

edit: they do

what a shame

 

[SnazzySwampert]

Opponent switches out M-Venusaur and goes into T-tar as Mega Alakazam uses Future Sight. T-tar dies to a Focus Blast next turn. Opponent's next Pokemon now has to take a Future Sight + another attack before it even gets to do anything (assuming it doesn't outspeed M-Alakazam).

Future Sight isn't weak to Pursuit, Psychic types are. It's something that's going to be an issue regardless of the moveset you're running.

Actually, standard AV t-tar dies with a 2HKO. Mega t-tar is the one who gets one-shotted