Pokémon Gallade

[Kurona]

In addition, the tier a Pokémon is in doesn't necessarily denote how good it is. For instance, Electivire was OU back in Gen 4 despite being awful and Mega Heracross was BL for a while despite being extremely good in OU. I'd recommend a visit to the Viability Rankings thread of each tier to get a better idea of how good a Pokémon is.

Oh, and before I forget, welcome to smogon :)

 

[NinetyNineNo]

Thanks! I actually used to play back in Gen IV, but skipped all of V and XY, haha.

 

[jmcdavid]

Thanks! I actually used to play back in Gen IV, but skipped all of V and XY, haha.

That...might be a bad move on your part. Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire gives you access to all of the Mega Stones from X and Y, but thirteen of them, specifically the Venusaurite, Blastoisinite, Charizardite X, Charizardite Y, Kangaskhanite, Scizorite, Mewtwonite X, Mewtwonite Y, Gengarite, Houndoomite, Ampharosite, Tyranitarite, and Lucarionite, won't do you any good without X and Y, since the Pokemon you'd need for them can only be obtained in X and Y, unless you import them from Black 2 or White 2.

So unless you want those Mega Stones to be useless for a long time, I'd suggest you get X and Y. Just saying.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

That...might be a bad move on your part. Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire gives you access to all of the Mega Stones from X and Y, but thirteen of them, specifically the Venusaurite, Blastoisinite, Charizardite X, Charizardite Y, Kangaskhanite, Scizorite, Mewtwonite X, Mewtwonite Y, Gengarite, Houndoomite, Ampharosite, Tyranitarite, and Lucarionite, won't do you any good without X and Y, since the Pokemon you'd need for them can only be obtained in X and Y, unless you import them from Black 2 or White 2.

So unless you want those Mega Stones to be useless for a long time, I'd suggest you get X and Y. Just saying.

Or you can just use the GTS and trade for them.

 

[jmcdavid]

So, how does this set of moves on the Swords Dance set sound?

Swords Dance.
Drain Punch.
Knock Off.
Zen Headbutt.

A Swords Dance makes Drain Punch at least as powerful as an unboosted Close Combat, as well as providing some much-needed recovery. Knock Off provides coverage. And Zen Headbutt gives it a secondary STAB, as well as a way to deal with Poison-types, which would otherwise give it a fair bit of trouble.

 

[Kurona]

So, how does this set of moves on the Swords Dance set sound?

Swords Dance.
Drain Punch.
Knock Off.
Zen Headbutt.

A Swords Dance makes Drain Punch at least as powerful as an unboosted Close Combat, as well as providing some much-needed recovery. Knock Off provides coverage. And Zen Headbutt gives it a secondary STAB, as well as a way to deal with Poison-types, which would otherwise give it a fair bit of trouble.

Generally if you're running Drain Punch, Gallade'd prefer Bulk Up, seeing as how while it's bulk is nice, most of the time it lets it live just a neutral STAB or so. When running SD, it just wants to be obliterating every single thing that stands in it's way.

 

[jmcdavid]

Generally if you're running Drain Punch, Gallade'd prefer Bulk Up, seeing as how while it's bulk is nice, most of the time it lets it live just a neutral STAB or so. When running SD, it just wants to be obliterating every single thing that stands in it's way.

But Close Combat has the rather nasty side effect of dropping Defense and Special Defense by one stage each, so while it would hit like a nuke, it would lose a fair amount of the bulk it gains from Mega Evolving.

Aside from that, however, would you say the set I suggested is a good one?

 

[Kurona]

But Close Combat has the rather nasty side effect of dropping Defense and Special Defense by one stage each, so while it would hit like a nuke, it would lose a fair amount of the bulk it gains from Mega Evolving.

Aside from that, however, would you say the set I suggested is a good one?

I'd honestly say the best use of the newfound bulk is really just allowing it to set up a Swords Dance and then getting off a ton of nukes. When you're bringing in your Gallade you should have taken care of anything that could deal with it by that point. The CC drops only matter if you're up against something with dangerous priority (Pinsir, Talonflame) something faster than you or speed ties you (Greninja, Absol, Pidgeot, Latios) or has enough bulk to take your hits and beat you regardless (Landoge, Clefable).

And again, Drain Punch really finds much better use on a Bulk Up set, as you're really overestimating Gallade's standalone bulk. The real hype around that is that, well... it's good for an offensive Pokémon. It lets it set up, come in and/or mega evolve. It doesn't care about recovery as a sweeper in the slightest as a good player should never really need to restore health to Gallade because as I stated, everything that can take a hit from and beat Gallade should have been taken care of before it comes in. In addition, you miss the ability to kill a lot of Pokémon such as Skarmory with the massive loss in power from CC to DP. Keep in mind that a lot of calcs involving Gallade assume it's at +2 already, so saying +2 brings DP up to the power of unboosted CC is very redundant.

 

[jmcdavid]

I'd honestly say the best use of the newfound bulk is really just allowing it to set up a Swords Dance and then getting off a ton of nukes. When you're bringing in your Gallade you should have taken care of anything that could deal with it by that point. The CC drops only matter if you're up against something with dangerous priority (Pinsir, Talonflame) something faster than you or speed ties you (Greninja, Absol, Pidgeot, Latios) or has enough bulk to take your hits and beat you regardless (Landoge, Clefable).

And again, Drain Punch really finds much better use on a Bulk Up set, as you're really overestimating Gallade's standalone bulk. The real hype around that is that, well... it's good for an offensive Pokémon. It lets it set up, come in and/or mega evolve. It doesn't care about recovery as a sweeper in the slightest as a good player should never really need to restore health to Gallade because as I stated, everything that can take a hit from and beat Gallade should have been taken care of before it comes in. In addition, you miss the ability to kill a lot of Pokémon such as Skarmory with the massive loss in power from CC to DP. Keep in mind that a lot of calcs involving Gallade assume it's at +2 already, so saying +2 brings DP up to the power of unboosted CC is very redundant.

Gotcha.

So, Swords Dance, Close Combat, Knock Off, and Zen Headbutt is going to be my best bet, apparently.

 

[Kurona]

Gotcha.

So, Swords Dance, Close Combat, Knock Off, and Zen Headbutt is going to be my best bet, apparently.

For a Swords Dance set, yes. Ice Punch is also a viable option worth considering over KO iirc.
Drain Punch is good for Bulk Up tho.

 

[jmcdavid]

For a Swords Dance set, yes. Ice Punch is also a viable option worth considering over KO iirc.
Drain Punch is good for Bulk Up tho.

Because Ice Punch would be a good counter for Flying-types that would otherwise be troublesome for that set, right?

 

[Kurona]

Because Ice Punch would be a good counter for Flying-types that would otherwise be troublesome for that set, right?

It's mostly for nailing Lando-T on the switch; due to STAB a neutral Zen Headbutt does more than a 2X effective Ice Punch. So really just use Ice Punch on 4X effects.
Really Knock Off is better most the time but it's what best fits your team.

 

[jmcdavid]

You know, it might be a good idea to discuss priority, which M-Gallade arguably could use on a speed tier that's fairly dicey.

Would it be a good idea to make sure it knows Shadow Sneak, which IMO is its only available priority move? Or would it be smarter to not even bother?

 

[Kurona]

You know, it might be a good idea to discuss priority, which M-Gallade arguably could use on a speed tier that's fairly dicey.

Would it be a good idea to make sure it knows Shadow Sneak, which IMO is its only available priority move? Or would it be smarter to not even bother?

Pretty much don't bother. It has no room for it really and Shadow Sneak does surprisingly little to any opponents it's not super effective against.

 

[jmcdavid]

Pretty much don't bother. It has no room for it really and Shadow Sneak does surprisingly little to any opponents it's not super effective against.

Gotcha.

 

[56k]

I think leaf blade might actually be a handy move for the 3rd slot for only the fact that it hits both sableye and slowbro significantly harder than knock off. They'll die if they've taken a single hit earlier in the match. I've never used this mega, though, and I've no idea how useful ice punch and knock off end up being.

 

[Kurona]

I think leaf blade might actually be a handy move for the 3rd slot for only the fact that it hits both sableye and slowbro significantly harder than knock off. They'll die if they've taken a single hit earlier in the match. I've never used this mega, though, and I've no idea how useful ice punch and knock off end up being.

Knock Off provides excellent coverage and synergy with it's two STABs as it seems to do with most anything that gets it. Meanwhile, Ice Punch is mostly there for nailing Lando-T on the switch iirc.
I do get your idea of hitting sablebro, but I generally think they're best left to other team-mates such as Sylveon instead of sacrificing a very precious moveslot.

 

[56k]

I can't really disagree with that. It's almost like having a useless move for most matches you play. It's just extremely unfortunate that he's supposed to be a wallbreaker of sorts but two of the most popular stall megas can convincingly beat him if they run full def investment. I've stopped way too many +2 gallades in my day and wanted to suggest something to the offense players out there <_< (I'm usually on the stall end of things). I'll keep that specs sylveon suggestion in mind though as most stall teams are awfully pressured by that that thing.

 

[Kurona]

I can't really disagree with that. It's almost like having a useless move for most matches you play. It's just extremely unfortunate that he's supposed to be a wallbreaker of sorts but two of the most popular stall megas can convincingly beat him if they run full def investment. I'll keep that specs sylveon suggestion in mind though as most stall teams are awfully pressured by that that thing.

Yeah; me and a few others here are hyping up the Bishladesylv core quite a bit. Add a birdspam check and you're good to go imo.

 

[Twilightfairy]

Alright so i'd like to throw an idea out there of skill swap gallade. I've been messing around with it as a mega-lead to mess with people on cartridge and the results have been amusing. It usually forces a switch which give me a chance to set up a bulk up.

What i'd like some assistance in is A bulky EV spread. I've got one Gallade with 252 HP and 126 split into both it's defenses acting as lead. And i'm not entirely sure if that's a great spread. I've got other members in my team to clear hazards/set up tailwind/Cleric+wish support..ect, so I don't necessarily need speed (I think). Some constructive feedback would be nice.

 

[Kurona]

Alright so i'd like to throw an idea out there of skill swap gallade. I've been messing around with it as a mega-lead to mess with people on cartridge and the results have been amusing. It usually forces a switch which give me a chance to set up a bulk up.

What i'd like some assistance in is A bulky EV spread. I've got one Gallade with 252 HP and 126 split into both it's defenses acting as lead. And i'm not entirely sure if that's a great spread. I've got other members in my team to clear hazards/set up tailwind/Cleric+wish support..ect, so I don't necessarily need speed (I think). Some constructive feedback would be nice.

Splitting defences is generally not a great idea; you want to focus your defences on surviving specific hits like you'd focus speed EVs to outspeed specific speed tiers.
Talking of Speed EVs, you need some of those as well as some in attack, as even thought 165 is still stupidly good, for a bulky set you'd want to use Drain Punch. I'm not entirely sure what spread you'd go for but 252 HP/126 dfc/126 SpD is generally a bad idea.
Also there's no point making it 126 because you've just wasted 2 EVs in two stats

 

[Twilightfairy]

See its

Splitting defences is generally not a great idea; you want to focus your defences on surviving specific hits like you'd focus speed EVs to outspeed specific speed tiers.
Talking of Speed EVs, you need some of those as well as some in attack, as even thought 165 is still stupidly good, for a bulky set you'd want to use Drain Punch. I'm not entirely sure what spread you'd go for but 252 HP/126 dfc/126 SpD is generally a bad idea.
Also there's no point making it 126 because you've just wasted 2 EVs in two stats

See it's little things like that that confuses me with ev spreads. So is there a certain minimum benchmark for speed EV I should strive for?

 

[Kurona]

See its


See it's little things like that that confuses me with ev spreads. So is there a certain minimum benchmark for speed EV I should strive for?

The problem with the speed tier of Latios, Mega Metagross, Mega Gallade etc. is that while it is a really good speed tier, it's shared by so many other good Pokémon that you end up having to absolutely run max speed with a beneficial nature just to not be outsped. Hence that's why I don't think Gallade can pull off a bulky set very well since it has to invest in speed and it doesn't have amazing bulk as such. Hence I would instead look for a minimum defence/special defence/HP benchmark that lets you avoid a 2HKO or something at the cost of some attack power, similar to how Mega Gardevoir runs 232 SpA and 24 Dfc to avoid a 2HKO from Latios Psyshocks.

 

[Yamborski]

See its


See it's little things like that that confuses me with ev spreads. So is there a certain minimum benchmark for speed EV I should strive for?

A simple rule of thumb -

base 101 speed or more virtually always benefits from a speed boosting nature and 252 EVs.
base 70-100 speed can run either attack / sp attack boosting nature or speed boosting but still want 252 EVs.
base 69 speed and lower usually run attack / sp attack boosting natures and don't need to run many, or any speed EVs.

This only counts for offensive Pokemon. Defensive Pokemon can run completely different spreads and the nature / EV rule doesn't quite apply to a Pokemon holding a Choice Scarf. There are many, many exceptions to this rule but if you are unsure of how to EV / nature your Pokemon the above should be a decent enough guide.

 

[jmcdavid]

A simple rule of thumb -

base 101 speed or more virtually always benefits from a speed boosting nature and 252 EVs.
base 70-100 speed can run either attack / sp attack boosting nature or speed boosting but still want 252 EVs.
base 69 speed and lower usually run attack / sp attack boosting natures and don't need to run many, or any speed EVs.

This only counts for offensive Pokemon. Defensive Pokemon can run completely different spreads and the nature / EV rule doesn't quite apply to a Pokemon holding a Choice Scarf. There are many, many exceptions to this rule but if you are unsure of how to EV / nature your Pokemon the above should be a decent enough guide.

Um, I'm pretty sure you're forgetting Mega Ampharos, which, while it has a base 45 Speed, can fix it up through Agility, thus warranting running 252 Speed EVs there as well.