Gen VII: Pokémon Sun and Moon (New info Post #5834)

[shockwave527]

what does IMO mean

In My Opinion

 

[Norne]

I killed the Hydregion with a durant? Point being? In D/P (and PL) You had more limited options of good mons, had to have HMS. It results in a harder game, which IMO is a good thing. B/W and B/W2 were so bad that if it wasn't for needing them to get mons from 3/4th gen, I'd sell them. It was simply easy, in part from really stupid AI, and in part because their were plenty of easy to get really strong mons.

That's fake difficulty. Roadblocks that restrict the party and experience declines at endgame locations are seen as poor planning from the designers point of view, DP was filled with this.

Also easy to get strong mons come with the quintessential disk one nuke nidoking, it's a staple of the franchise, BW included disk one nukes all along its areas, B2W2 even rewarded you with the possibility of Lucario or arcanine by gym 2 if you where consistent enough.

This isn't a bad thing design wise, it's called player experimentation rewards and they show a bigger insight on how people play your games than the horrible ideas behind GSC and DP.

Seriously, GSC introduces dark and steel types, the only shared steel type between both games is pineco evolving into forretress having skarmory locked to silver, the only ingame dark type for league runs is freaking umbreon, good luvk not missing on the two new types introduced in the game!

DP had all it's cross gen evolutions locked out until post-game, no seriously all of them are post game only, you only get two fire types lines in the dex and to top this bullshit you are half of the time restricted to a party of 4+ a flying type since backtracking is a mess in this game, God bless staraptor not sucking, but if you run ingame challenges or try to experiment with the DP dex the game fucks you silly.

Saying DP is a better game when it's "difficulty" comes from the creators thinking with their butts on cool map concepts instead of replayability and player experience it's obvious it was a bad set of games.

I applaud Barry and I would love to have more rivals like him, but seriously saying DP is superior to BW due to it having a false sense of difficulty shrouded in terrible development decisions is a bit if a stretch.

I can understand someone saying PT was better than BW since it was the best game of its generation and improved everything wrong with DP, but that's an statement based on bias and preferences that holds a bit of ground on both being great games. But DP being good for the creators making horrible mistakes? Nope that's a bad opinion no matter how I try to nostalgia or sugarcoat it.

Unless you are the pitchfork at ecruteak options in a pokemon game have never being bad, BW having nearly 130 mons usable on ingame runs is not a bad thing at all when compared to the mediocre DP pool.

 

[JTD783]

As much as I enjoy the discussion of what we hope SM includes, I think it's best that we focus more on what the new games can improve on istead of what the old games may/may not have done wrong; it's getting this thread nowhere.

In hopes of starting a less toxic better discussion, something I'd like to bring up is the availability of Gen 1-6 mons in the Alola Region. I'm hoping that we get a balance somewhere along the lines of this:

Early game: Almost all Alola mons, some old gen mons that are more common

Mid game: Mostly Alola with, more old gen that are slightly less common and more viable for in-game purposes

Late game: Maybe half and half, a few rarer old gen mons

Post game: Rare Alola mons and a wide range of old gen mons

To me, the optimal relation between old and new mons is that there are enough Alola-natives throughout the game that they keep the focus on them, while old ones appear every now and then. If an old gen mon is essentially better than the Alola alternative (ex. half decent Alola starter bird vs Talonflame or Staraptor), it should be introduced later, forcing players to train (and get more attached to) the new pokemon for the better part of the game.

And for christ's sake give us a good HM slave. As much as I hate to say it, we need a gen 7 Bidoof.

 

[boxofkangaroos]

And for christ's sake give us a good HM slave. As much as I hate to say it, we need a gen 7 Bidoof.

Or... it could be like the Gen 5 games, where we don't need an HM slave in the first place. That'd be ideal.

 

[peaswar]

That's fake difficulty. Roadblocks that restrict the party and experience declines at endgame locations are seen as poor planning from the designers point of view, DP was filled with this.

Also easy to get strong mons come with the quintessential disk one nuke nidoking, it's a staple of the franchise, BW included disk one nukes all along its areas, B2W2 even rewarded you with the possibility of Lucario or arcanine by gym 2 if you where consistent enough.

This isn't a bad thing design wise, it's called player experimentation rewards and they show a bigger insight on how people play your games than the horrible ideas behind GSC and DP.

Seriously, GSC introduces dark and steel types, the only shared steel type between both games is pineco evolving into forretress having skarmory locked to silver, the only ingame dark type for league runs is freaking umbreon, good luvk not missing on the two new types introduced in the game!

DP had all it's cross gen evolutions locked out until post-game, no seriously all of them are post game only, you only get two fire types lines in the dex and to top this bullshit you are half of the time restricted to a party of 4+ a flying type since backtracking is a mess in this game, God bless staraptor not sucking, but if you run ingame challenges or try to experiment with the DP dex the game fucks you silly.

Saying DP is a better game when it's "difficulty" comes from the creators thinking with their butts on cool map concepts instead of replayability and player experience it's obvious it was a bad set of games.

I applaud Barry and I would love to have more rivals like him, but seriously saying DP is superior to BW due to it having a false sense of difficulty shrouded in terrible development decisions is a bit if a stretch.

I can understand someone saying PT was better than BW since it was the best game of its generation and improved everything wrong with DP, but that's an statement based on bias and preferences that holds a bit of ground on both being great games. But DP being good for the creators making horrible mistakes? Nope that's a bad opinion no matter how I try to nostalgia or sugarcoat it.

Unless you are the pitchfork at ecruteak options in a pokemon game have never being bad, BW having nearly 130 mons usable on ingame runs is not a bad thing at all when compared to the mediocre DP pool.

why was the pitchfork bad, it allowed you to get strong pokemon early on, not to mention, battle the gym leaders in an order you can pick--- you can do chuck then jasmine then pryce or chuck then pryce then jasmine

 

[Norne]

I would honestly prefer to have all of alola mons available outside of post league legends.

It gives a better experience on replays.

But I see where you are going for, full new dex exposure and then small dosage.

Also we don't need a gen7 Bidoof if the region layout is played akin to BW in wich you only use HM to explore extra areas.

BTW, this comparison is quite valid as it isn't wishlisting, just noticing patterns and structures from the previous franchise works to set the ground for expectations on region layout.

It is honestly quite early to judge the pictures of the region as of now and what Pokémon could be available in those areas so I'm not going there.

I'm also avoiding the what should the next rival behave like and instead posting an opinion of Barry being a good rival as it is a friendly rival with a nice "take that" feel to speed runners while still feeling like a decent challenge.

Noticing patterns on old games can help contribute to news discussions once a few early routes get released.

why was the pitchfork bad, it allowed you to get strong pokemon early on, not to mention, battle the gym leaders in an order you can pick--- you can do chuck then jasmine then pryce or chuck then pryce then jasmine

The pitchfork destroyed the leveling curve for the rest of the game and the extended region, it has been discussed a lot honestly.

While it gave us access to Magmar, Tauros, Miltank, Stantler, Lanturn, Girafarig and gyarados it destroyed the leveling pace making the game a complete drag and killing team member experimentation, why bother with lv 27 phanpy, skarmory, wobuffet or gligar when we got several mid 30 options starving for experience already.

It was bad because it was poorly implemented and killed the otherwise stellar curve up to Morty.

 

[HelenTheHero]

Something I want improved really is the characters in general. I want to see them have more depth instead of a couple traits (Tierno, etc) that make them stand out. This is why I have high hopes for Lillie, it seems like she will be very deep backstory wise and I can't wait to see what will happen with her.

EDIT* And I have to agree with Norne, Barry was one of my favorite rivals and I think he's a great example of the friendly competition norm we have now.

 

[Xander of Nohr]

Or... it could be like the Gen 5 games, where we don't need an HM slave in the first place. That'd be ideal.

This tbh. Being forced to use HMs has got to be one of the most obnoxious things about Pokemon games.

Anyways, I do not think Alola is gonna go down the B/W route regarding the pokemon available. We're given a rotom at the very beginning I assume so I don't think Alola is gonna be a secluded region like Unova was before B2/W2. I even hope they'll retcon a couple of mons with new evolutions ala D/P/T, but that's obviously just me and probably not even going to happen.

Hopefully they'll also decrease the amount of 'rivals' we have. X&Y had too many and because of that none of them got properly fleshed out and ended up as bland and gimmicky at best.

@ Above: Yes, omg I'm soo over this whole 'hur hur we're all friends and having fun!" sort of rivalry of the recent games. A Barry 2.0, or even a Gary would be a more than welcomed breath a fresh air imo.

 

[Lady Vader]

As much as I enjoy the discussion of what we hope SM includes, I think it's best that we focus more on what the new games can improve on istead of what the old games may/may not have done wrong; it's getting this thread nowhere.

In hopes of starting a less toxic better discussion, something I'd like to bring up is the availability of Gen 1-6 mons in the Alola Region. I'm hoping that we get a balance somewhere along the lines of this:

Early game: Almost all Alola mons, some old gen mons that are more common

Mid game: Mostly Alola with, more old gen that are slightly less common and more viable for in-game purposes

Late game: Maybe half and half, a few rarer old gen mons

Post game: Rare Alola mons and a wide range of old gen mons

To me, the optimal relation between old and new mons is that there are enough Alola-natives throughout the game that they keep the focus on them, while old ones appear every now and then. If an old gen mon is essentially better than the Alola alternative (ex. half decent Alola starter bird vs Talonflame or Staraptor), it should be introduced later, forcing players to train (and get more attached to) the new pokemon for the better part of the game.

And for christ's sake give us a good HM slave. As much as I hate to say it, we need a gen 7 Bidoof.

I would honestly prefer to have all of alola mons available outside of post league legends.

It gives a better experience on replays.

But I see where you are going for, full new dex exposure and then small dosage.

Yes.

Hopefully they'll also decrease the amount of 'rivals' we have. X&Y had too many and because of that none of them got properly fleshed out and ended up as bland and gimmicky at best.

@ Above: Yes, omg I'm soo over this whole 'hur hur we're all friends and having fun!" sort of rivalry of the recent games. A Barry 2.0, or even a Gary would be a more than welcomed breath a fresh air imo.

Oh hell yeah on this. With X and Y, we had Calem/Serena, aka the worst main rivals ever (boring, constantly behind, and can't properly train a Pokémon team to save their lives*), then we have Shauna, who creeps me out (I think it's the fact she's seems so young yet with incredibly short shorts and those shoes that just seems like they belong on someone at least a decade older), and the rest. Yeah, I don't feel like typing their names, they're pointless.
Barry was honestly the best rival. He's friendly, but still competitive. He's not a Vegeta expy. It is a case of two friends who are pushing each other to be the very best. And that's awesome. We need another Barry, damn it!


*And now I'm thinking about ORAS and how Wally's team was actually pretty good!

 

[pharaohcalvin]

That's fake difficulty. Roadblocks that restrict the party and experience declines at endgame locations are seen as poor planning from the designers point of view, DP was filled with this.

Also easy to get strong mons come with the quintessential disk one nuke nidoking, it's a staple of the franchise, BW included disk one nukes all along its areas, B2W2 even rewarded you with the possibility of Lucario or arcanine by gym 2 if you where consistent enough.

This isn't a bad thing design wise, it's called player experimentation rewards and they show a bigger insight on how people play your games than the horrible ideas behind GSC and DP.

Seriously, GSC introduces dark and steel types, the only shared steel type between both games is pineco evolving into forretress having skarmory locked to silver, the only ingame dark type for league runs is freaking umbreon, good luvk not missing on the two new types introduced in the game!

DP had all it's cross gen evolutions locked out until post-game, no seriously all of them are post game only, you only get two fire types lines in the dex and to top this bullshit you are half of the time restricted to a party of 4+ a flying type since backtracking is a mess in this game, God bless staraptor not sucking, but if you run ingame challenges or try to experiment with the DP dex the game fucks you silly.

Saying DP is a better game when it's "difficulty" comes from the creators thinking with their butts on cool map concepts instead of replayability and player experience it's obvious it was a bad set of games.

I applaud Barry and I would love to have more rivals like him, but seriously saying DP is superior to BW due to it having a false sense of difficulty shrouded in terrible development decisions is a bit if a stretch.

I can understand someone saying PT was better than BW since it was the best game of its generation and improved everything wrong with DP, but that's an statement based on bias and preferences that holds a bit of ground on both being great games. But DP being good for the creators making horrible mistakes? Nope that's a bad opinion no matter how I try to nostalgia or sugarcoat it.

Unless you are the pitchfork at ecruteak options in a pokemon game have never being bad, BW having nearly 130 mons usable on ingame runs is not a bad thing at all when compared to the mediocre DP pool.

O PL is way better than D/P, but once again I disagree with you. Limited options is not "fake difficulty". It is actual difficulty, less options does equal a harder game, because you have less choices to work with. Also, the game doesn't fuck you for experimenting. I have played through the entire game with just Bidoof. It just takes a higher skill cap to make use of the pokemon. Something that starting with gen 5, has been completely removed from the main stream games. And as far as back tracking goes...it is not hard to just store a flier in the PC to with draw when you need to back track. Which btw, I love having to back track some, it is nice to not just go to a zone, great pretty much everything outside maybe one or two items you have to come back with strength to get. Serously through "fake difficulty" only comes from RNG, not from limiting choices lol.

 

[Taistelu]

On the topic of HM Slaves: What's the point of having essentially 4 Pokemon (+2 useless slaves) for an in game run when your meant to have 6. Having 2 Pokemon dedicated to bad HM moves lowers their level to the point where their not usable in battle. Pokemon is a game designed to have choice and freedom with those choices (I mean 722 mons with more on the way) so what's the point in limiting those options with what is essentially a 4 Pokemon party. It defeats the point.

On the topic of rivals: I like most of them. Specifically Barry as stated by many above and Hugh from B2W2. He actually had a backstory that was somewhat existant and wasn't fighting the villainous team because he was a good hero and all that, he was doing it to get his sister's Purrloin back. If Alola has a rival like Barry/Hugh that mabye acts like Barry/Hugh I'll be happy.

 

[Pudding_Pop]

Since this region is based on Hawaii and the sunfish is found there, I want a new form of Alomomola found in Alola. I'd be surprised if this doesn't happen.

 

[Taistelu]

Since this region is based on Hawaii and the sunfish is found there, I want a new form of Alomomola found in Alola. I'd be surprised if this doesn't happen.

Or just make Luvdisc evolve into Alomomola it can still happen! But seriously since there's a lot of water I imagine a good chunck of Alola Pokemon will be water type.

 

[Axelsaurus]

It would be nice if we could have extra slots for HM that don't count in battle but let you use them anyway extra battles, so you can decide to use HM even as combat move or just as in-game utility. That way would make HMs different from TMs again, as since TMs were (finally) made infinite, HMs became only a more annoying version of them. If this looks too complicated (and I think it isn't), making HMs better is the least they could do to improve their use outside of HM slaves. Examples? Give Strength a 50% chance to raise the user attack, make Rock Smash and Cut 60BP moves that always cut the opponent's defense, make Rock Climb super effective against Rock types, make Fly/Sub/Dig stronger (like 100BP) and so on.

 

[DHR-107]

This has obviously gotten off track from discussion about the maps (which I would have thought there would be a lot more of tbh, I guess you guys aren't interested in that info...) so I'm locking it up for the next few days until we get CoroCoro info (assuming that it is anything to discuss anyway).

 

[DHR-107]

Pokémon Sun & Moon - QR Code Details

On Thursday, a lot of Pokémon Sun & Moon news was released and hidden within it was a piece of information pertaining to the special QR Code Scanner aspect of the game. Back in April, a new arcade game was announced called Pokémon Ga-Olé, which replaces the current Pokémon Tretta, is coming to Japan in July 2016. This arcade game has got new discs and on these discs is a special QR code. Previously, we didn't know what the QR code is for, however it is confirmed that these QR Codes are the first set of special Pokémon QR Codes that will be compatible with Pokémon Sun & Moon through the QR Scanner. We'll bring full details on this arcade game when it launches next month and more details on the QR Scanner features, and products featuring the QR Codes, as they come.

Not opening the thread for this as there isn't exactly anything to discuss, and it'll be open in a few days anyway for the CoroCoro news. It does however look like they will be doing some "front loading" of the QR Codes (in Japan at least). Thankyou to peaswar for letting me know.

 

[Stellar]

I'm not really an OI mod still, but CoroCoro is out and the OI mods are sleeping, so I'm gonna unlock this for the news. :)

New Pokémon: Iwanko (Rock-type dog with Vital Spirit / Keen Eye)
New Pokémon: Nekkoala (Normal-type koala with Definite Sleep)
New Ability: Definite Sleep (No status other than Sleep will affect this Pokémon)
New Ability: Heart Soul (Previously revealed as Magearna's "special ability" in the movie)
New Movie: Fleur Cannon (Learned by Magearna)

IWANKO IS CUTE AS HECK

 

[Gaburaisu]

"CoroCoro hints that Rowlet, Litten, Popplio and Iwanko all hide a secret."

I'd love to know WHAT.

 

[Karxrida]

Somebody on TV Tropes said that Magearna's ability is effectively a Special version of Moxie, but it procs when anything on the field faints (presumably for any reason). This includes allies. He's not entirely sure, though, since the scan is hard to read.

He also said Magearna's sig move translates to Fleur Cannon (he's sure about this one).

 

[yourDeadGrandad]

OH MY GOD A ROCK TYPE. :D

A ROCK TYPE DOG

It's on my team until the end. <3

 

[brightobject]

Is GAME FREAK in some sort of design rut? First they have Lunala, the Yveltal look alike, and now Nekkoala, the Flabebe look alike... what gives guys?

 

[Norne]

Is the dog based on an Akita? It sure gives of that vibes.

Man early rock types :3 I'm loving this.

 

[WaffleTitan]

Gamefreak has gifted us with a koala Pokemon! My dreams have come true!

 

[Lady Vader]

Okay, this generation is getting more than its fair share of cute designs as I love both of those. Especially Iwanko.
Also, I love how Definite Sleep is just an inverted Insomnia.

Gamefreak has gifted us with a koala Pokemon! My dreams have come true!

It wasn't until you said that that it finally occurred to me that we didn't have one before. You think it would have happened sooner than this.

 

[Millky95]

Need Kekkoala on my team, even as a HM slave. Looks awesome and koalas are the best

Rock Dog is interesting. Not often we get an early rock type. Earliest I can think of is Geodude in GSC that can be missed before the first gym, otherwise all are after the 1st gym.