[GEN VII Round 1: Group Tapu Bulu] Complications vs P2X7

[P2X7]

Toon, while looking through Bulbapedia, I noticed Blizzard's ability to penetrate Protect during Hail is a glitch that was removed from the cartridge games in Platinum; furthermore, a post by FMD in the Grass Pelt thread confirms this event and implies that the interaction was incompletely removed from ASB. Because this is an important battle, I would like to request that the fourth round be corrected, and for the battle to continue from that point.

 

[Complications]

As much as I support correcting mistakes in reffing, I too feel like this battle is important enough that I give my two cents here before it gets taken to committee or toon's decision is made. First, while the changes did appear to go through in regard to Thunder, Blizzard, and Hurricane's descriptions, the effect does indeed seem to have not been edited out of Hail as to this date. While I understand that it should, as far as my digging goes, I can't find an announcement made in regard to this change, including in the Implimentation thread in policy, so I believe the round technically was correctly reffed at the time of its reffing. Second, unless I'm mistaken, I believe in general when a mistake is caught more than a round after the round it's made in, play continues as usual, although this I am not sure about and is based off old precedent which could be overwritten.

 

[Toon]

Sorry for the wait I'm waiting on WoG

 

[Dogfish44]

Ugh, this is a fun one I was summoned to.

Hail should have been adjusted a while ago, but it wasn't. For the sake of this match, that means that I rule that the current version of Hail should be used, unless this ruling is formally overturned.

 

[Toon]

with that out of le way:

After P2X7 posts, DQ will be reduced to 48h.

P2X7 Complications Toon

 

[P2X7]

Raichu @ Thunderstone

Thunderbolt - Electro Ball - Thunderbolt
IF Golisopod uses a Damaging Bug-type combination, AND NOT your second substitution activated on the previous action, use Protect that action instead, but not consecutively.
IF Golisopod uses a Damaging Bug-type move, AND NOT your first substitution activated on the previous action, use Protect that action instead, but not consecutively.
IF Golisopod uses a Damaging Dark-type combination, use Fly (Suspend) that action and Fly (Attack) the following action.

My orders are posted under the assumption that the clause "AND NOT your Xth substitution activated on the previous action" is legal, as the handbook was a bit vague on the topic; if I am incorrect, I would appreciate the chance to reorder.

 

[Complications]

Payback-Payback-Sucker Punch+Giga Impact

 

[Toon]

FIELD
Stealth Rock
----->
[Complications]​

#FBand
Emergency Exit
85/94
5/5/1/4/40
Status: OK!

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

​

//VS//​

​

#Tstone
Surge Surfer
90/100
3/2/4[5]/2/110 [220]
Status: OK!

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

=======
Crit is lower than (#), Hit is higher than %, effect is lower than %

1ST ACTION

PANCAKE uses Thunderbolt
Crit: 3925 (625)
Effect: 4043 (4043)
Damage: (9[BAP]+3[STAB]+7.5[SpA]+3[TS]-6[SpD])*1.5=24.75 20
-6en

GOLISOPOD uses Payback
Crit: 1783 (625)
Damage: (10[BAP]+7.5[Atk]-3[Def])*1.5=21.75
-7en

2ND ACTION

PANCAKE uses Electro Ball
Crit: 1230 (625)
Damage: (15[BAP]+3[STAB]+7.5[SpA]+1[TS]-6[SpD])*1.5=30.75 20
-8en

GOLISOPOD uses Payback
Crit: 2305 (625)
Damage: (10[BAP]+7.5[Atk]-3[Def])*1.5=21.75
-11en

3RD ACTION

GOLISOPOD uses SUCKER IMPACT
Hit: 2341 (9500)
Crit: 8726 (625)
Damage: (19.5[BAP]+7.5[Atk]-3[Def])*1.5=36
-24en

PANCAKE uses Fly
-6en

TL;DR

-40HP -42EN

-80HP -20EN
=======

FIELD
Stealth Rock
----->
[Complications]​

#FBand
Emergency Exit
45/52
5/5/1/4/40
Status: Emergency Exit (1), Cooldown, Sluggish the action after

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

​

//VS//​

​

#Tstone
Surge Surfer
10/80
3/2/4/2/110 [220]
Status: Fly (Suspend)

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

Complications Orders
P2X7 Orders
I Ref!

 

[P2X7]

Err...@Toon, given that Fly (Suspend) is a non-damaging order, shouldn't Golisopod's combo a3 fail?

 

[Toon]

ingame Sucker punch still succeeds/hits the pokemon using fly even if they havent attacked them that turn, that is the logic im going off of

 

[P2X7]

With all due respect:

1. In situations of conflict, ASB follows on-cartridge precedents, and Pokemon Showdown is not the most reliable indicator of in-game behavior because it has been inaccurate in the past. If you wish to use in-game evidence, I would prefer if you use footage from a cartridge.

2.

This move fails if the opponents uses a non-damaging move...

Fly (Suspend): The user may pay 6 En to delay the attack component of Fly for an action. If a Pokémon is airborne at the end of the round, it may not be switched out. Fly (Suspend) only applies Consecutive EN Costs for multiple uses Fly (Suspend), and does not count for Fly (Attack). Whilst airborne, a Pokémon can only use Fly (Suspend), Fly (Attack), or a combination involving Fly (Attack). If a Pokemon fails to use Fly (Suspend) whilst airborne, said Pokemon returns to ground level.

Given that Fly (Suspend) deals no damage, occupies a subsection of Fly's NDA entry separate from Fly itself, and is essentially a command whose sole purpose is to extend the duration of a damaging evasive move, it is fairly logical to conclude that Fly (Suspend) counts as a non-damaging move for the purpose of Sucker Punch.

3.

Generation I
On the turn that Fly is selected, the user will fly up high, where the only attacks it cannot avoid are Bide, Swift, and Transform.

Generations II and III
The user can now also be hit by Gust, Sky Uppercut, Thunder, Twister, and Whirlwind during the semi-invulnerable turn of Fly, and will receive double damage from Gust and Twister.

The user may also be hit in the air if it was previously targeted by Lock-On or Mind Reader, and then struck the following turn.

Generation IV onwards
The user is now unable to avoid moves used by Pokémon with the Ability No Guard during the semi-invulnerable turn of Fly, and unable to avoid moves if it has No Guard. It can also be hit with Hurricane, Smack Down and Thousand Arrows. If Smack Down or Thousand Arrows hits, the user of Fly will be knocked down, cancelling the move.

Bulbapedia may not be the most accurate source of information, but nowhere in Fly's entry is it stated that the user is vulnerable to Sucker Punch. This interpretation is supported by a post on Pokemondb that confirms that Sucker Punch fails against a Flying Pokemon, but I am unsure of its credibility.

 

[Toon]

With all due respect:

1. In situations of conflict, ASB follows on-cartridge precedents, and Pokemon Showdown is not the most reliable indicator of in-game behavior because it has been inaccurate in the past. If you wish to use in-game evidence, I would prefer if you use footage from a cartridge.

ok

Given that Fly (Suspend) deals no damage, occupies a subsection of Fly's NDA entry separate from Fly itself, and is essentially a command whose sole purpose is to extend the duration of a damaging evasive move, it is fairly logical to conclude that Fly (Suspend) counts as a non-damaging move for the purpose of Sucker Punch.

Bulbapedia may not be the most accurate source of information, but nowhere in Fly's entry is it stated that the user is vulnerable to Sucker Punch. This interpretation is supported by a post on Pokemondb that confirms that Sucker Punch fails against a Flying Pokemon, but I am unsure of its credibility.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Bulbapedia also says

Generation IV
Sucker Punch has a power of 80. It has a priority of +1, so it is used before all moves that do not have increased priority. If Sucker Punch's target has selected a physical or special attack and has not yet had a chance to execute its move, Sucker Punch will damage the target; otherwise, Sucker Punch will fail. Sucker Punch only depends on the move the target has selected, and is not affected by any consideration of whether the attack can actually be executed, such as status conditions like sleep or freeze or Abilities like Truant.

Generation V
Sucker Punch will now succeed if the opponent is using Me First, regardless of who is faster.

Generation VII
Sucker Punch's power is lowered to 70.

Fly (even if suspended) is a damaging physical flying move and Pancake hasn't executed its move yet so according to Bulbapedia Sucker Punch should succeed. Also that PokemonDB Link is from 2012...I'm not sure how reliable that is in 2017 as well as the guy's source is "Someone on Showdown that has tried it"

If you still have a problem with this then go grab a mod imotbh

 

[Frosty]

Suspended fly is damaging. There are a gazillion precedents on the matter. Srsly, it as solid as it can be. Even though people want to change it that would be just that: a change.

 

[Toon]

Running short on time

Round will end immediately in 5 days Wednesday March 8th 1:40AM CST

If the battle has not ended by then, it will be subjected to voting to see who wins

Complications P2X7 Toon

 

[Complications]

Cooldown-Aqua Jet-First Impression
If Raichu uses a damaging electric-type combo, activate your Emergency Exit (Dodge) counter on that action.
If Raichu is under the effects of Endure when you would attack and Raichu is not already badly poisoned, use Toxic on that action and push down.
If Raichu is in the evasive stage of a D/E move when you would attack, Chill on that action.

 

[P2X7]

Fly (Attack) - Endure - Pain Split

 

[Toon]

FIELD
Stealth Rock
----->
[Complications]​

#FBand
Emergency Exit
45/52
5/5/1/4/40
Status: Emergency Exit (1), Cooldown, Sluggish the action after

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

​

//VS//​

​

#Tstone
Surge Surfer
10/80
3/2/4/2/110 [220]
Status: Fly (Suspend)

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

=======
Crit is lower than (#), Hit is higher than %, effect is lower than %

1ST ACTION

PANCAKE uses Fly
Hit: 5880 (9500)
Crit: 5803 (625)
Damage: (9[BAP]+4.5[Atk]+1[TS]-7.5[SpD])*1.5=10.5
-5en

GOLISOPOD uses Cools down

2ND ACTION

PANCAKE uses Endure
-15en

GOLISOPOD uses Toxic
Hit: 7033 (8000)
-7en

PANCAKE is TOX -1HP

3RD ACTION

GOLISOPOD uses Aqua Jet
Crit: 7581 (625)
Damage: (4+3+7.5-3)=11.5 Endure'd
-3en

PANCAKE uses Pain Split
+17.75HP
-17.75HP
-22.75en

PANCAKE is TOX -1HP

TL;DR

-28HP -10EN

+17HP -43EN
=======

FIELD
Stealth Rock
----->
[Complications]​

#FBand
Emergency Exit
17/42
5/5/1/4/40
Status: Emergency Exit (1)

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

​

//VS//​

​

#Tstone
Surge Surfer
18/37
3/2/4/2/110 [220]
Status: No Endure (1r), TOX (2DPA)

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

P2X7 Orders
Complications Orders
A conflict happens
I Ref eventually!

 

[P2X7]

Fake Out - Feint + Electro Ball combo - Cooldown (Feint + Electro Ball combo)
IF Golisopod uses First Impression in a combo, use Protect that action instead and push back.
IF Golisopod is under the effects of a successful P/E move when you would use Fake Out, use Wish the first instance and Chill the second, pushing back each instance.
IF Golisopod is cooling down, AND it used its Emergency Exit counter to dodge on the last action, use Chill that action instead and push back.

Combo Justification

Feint - Normal | Physical | Adjacent Target | 4 BAP | 100% Acc | 4 EN Cost | -- Eff% | Contact: No | 2 Prio | Z-BAP: 10 | Combo Type: Set | Snatch: No | Magic Coat: No
The Pokemon surrounds itself with a faint aura and rushes at the opponent with great speed, generating an afterimage. This attack nullifies any Protect, Detect, Quick Guard, Wide Guard, Crafty Shield, King's Shield or Spiky Shield active on the target.

Electro Ball - Electric | Special | Adjacent Target | Table BAP | 100% Acc | 9 EN Cost | -- Eff% | Contact: No | 0 Prio | Z-BAP: 16 | Combo Type: Elemental | Snatch: No | Magic Coat: No
The user creates a large electrified field around its body and charges at the opponent. It then stops suddenly releasing the ball at full speed.

The user surrounds itself with a powerful electrical field and charges at the opponent, trailed by energized afterimages. It then stops abruptly, causing the electrical duplicate to fly forth at great speed.

 

[Toon]

approving le combo above

 

[Complications]

[Emergency Exit (Dodge)] Leech Life-First Impression-Waterfall

 

[Toon]

FIELD
Stealth Rock
----->
[Complications]​

#FBand
Emergency Exit
17/42
5/5/1/4/40
Status: Emergency Exit (1)

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

​

//VS//​

​

#Tstone
Surge Surfer
18/37
3/2/4/2/110 [220]
Status: No Endure (1r), TOX (2DPA)

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

=======
Crit is lower than (#), Hit is higher than %, effect is lower than %

1ST ACTION

PANCAKE uses Fake Out
[Emergency Exit]
-4en

GOLISOPOD uses Leech Life
CritL 6660 (625)
Damage: (8[BAP]+3[STAB]+7.5[Atk]-3[Def])*1.5=23.25 KO'd
Recover: 11.625
-11en

TL;DR

+12HP -11EN

-23HP -4EN
=======

FIELD
Stealth Rock
----->
[Complications]​

#FBand
Emergency Exit
29/31
5/5/1/4/40
Status: Emergency Exit (1)

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

​

//VS//​

​

#Tstone
Surge Surfer
KO/33
3/2/4/2/110 [220]
Status: No Endure (1r), TOX (2DPA)

Bench

KO'd

KO'd

THAT'S A WRAP
P2X7 2CC 5UC
Complications 2CC 5UC

I get 27UC​

 

[Complications]

GG P2, I know it was a rocky match, but between the rocks I found it very enjoyable.

 

[P2X7]

Yes, GG.