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Generic Rain Team

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Blue Adept, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. Blue Adept

    Blue Adept

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Introduction:

    To begin, I mostly played OU Pokemon back in Gen 3 when the client was Shoddy Battle on my Windows '98 computer, since at the time I did not know how to use boot camp on a Mac or use some sort of emulator to get it running. I started in mid Gen 3, played for a little bit in Gen 4, but stopped mid-way through. The start of Gen 5 is where I came back to the 'Weather Wars,' and although I think that constant weather is fun (Gen 3 lol), its sort of amusing how broken it is. I am sort of familiar with the "meta," being from Gen 3 mostly, and having refreshed myself during the early days of Gen 5, but, as you'll probably gather from my post, not that experienced. Anyway, I decided to make a rain team for laddering (hopefully making it as high as possible (goal being top 10)), since I figure they are still viable. The name is derived from the idea that rain teams are not very unique, despite the fact I enjoy using them and the fact this is probably a carbon copy of some other dudes team without either of us knowing. I feel like I have a lightning weakness, but I'll let you guys decide that. So far, I have found that dragons absolutely wreck this team (literally fought a team of all dragons and lost). I believe I need fire moves, as well. To the team!

    The team has been updated and is still in testing. The current version is 5.

    G R T

    The Current Team
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    ---

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Perish Song
    - Focus Blast
    Politoed sets up rain (usually leading, unless they have a toed or another weather). Now no longer useless, Politoed can outspeed nearly anything, provided they are not scarfed or have a higher speed! Hydro Pump for a gamble of massive damage to many, many things, Perish Song as a quick F-U to something that has set up, Ice Beam to annoy those pesky dragons, and Focus Blast for Ferrothorn and various other goodies. I chose a Scarfed set over a defensive set since Politoed sucks and isn't able to actually do any damage OR recover lost HP in a defensive set, so I figure playing with a scarfed set and carefully switching in and out would do me more good than harm, so to speak.

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 176 HP / 120 Atk / 212 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Bounce
    - Substitute
    Alright. Keldeo's replacement is a Gyarados. Kind of an amusing "downgrade" from Legendary to pseudo-pseudo-legendary. After Keldeo became... useless, really, since it wasn't doing enough damage to dragons/anything with its moves that were not Hydro Pump and Secret Sword, I decided it was time for a change. Gyarados became Keldeo's replacement after I read the RMT for 'Calm Before the Storm." I immediately fell in love with this Pokemon after a quick Sub + DD after switching in to a Deoxys-D and sweeping their entire team. It is just awesome. Now, there was a problem with having 2 set-up sweepers on one team (I think so, anyway) so Gyarados is the reason Thundurus-T is now scarfed. This thing seems to be weak to electric attacks (duh) and it suffers for it on a rain team, but if I can successfully set up, this thing is a monster.

    [​IMG]
    Breloom @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Spore
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Seed Bomb
    After constantly replacing my Rapid Spinner, I am now testing Breloom as the filler for Keldeo's Blissey control and as a replacement for Rapid Spin. I am hoping that it deters Spinners enough so that I can set up and/or just sweep with this guy. A lot of team, I have noticed, are pretty weak to Breloom after one of their Pokemon have gone down, so I feel like keeping Loom is in my best interests, despite lacking a spinner, something I might regret in the future. That said, 3/6 of my Pokemon do not take damage from Spikes, 4/6 are Toxic Spike resistant, and all of them (Gyarados and TT mainly) take damage from SR.


    [​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Roost
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird
    After playing stall for so long I couldn't think of another, better, physical wall that also phases and sets up spikes. Also good against dragons, something this team was weak against. With regard to replacing Skarm with Ferrothorn: I chose skarmory as a Breloom killer as well, since Ferrothorn is easily set up on, from my experience, since it cannot out speed anything. It could, work, though, so I will test it out. The issue with ferrothorn, though, is that it cannot phase, which I feel is more effective than actually walling dragons, since it destroys any set up they previously had (dragonite sub + dd, etc.). Just my personal opinion, and I could be wrong.

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunder
    - Volt Switch
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    Used as a "Thundurus + Tornadus Counter" if Stealth Rock is up, and just a general deterrent to, really, anything. Volt Switch is for getting out of there against an ice type (that hopefully doesn't carry Ice Shard... lol), Thunder over TBolt since I live dangerously, HP Ice as my catch-all, and Focus Blast just incase of Ferrothorn and what have you. Thundurus is, mainly, a scare-tactic rather than a "sweeper," as Gyarados and Breloom seem to fulfill that role better than Thundurus has in the past.

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Wish
    - Stealth Rock
    - Iron Head
    - Thunder Wave
    Just a good special wall + again dragon counter. Twave to get dat iron head advantage. Stealth rock for early-mid game setup. Wish to recover hp and continue the stall. Jirachi is just extremely versatile and with the defensive build, can take numerous hits. In the rain it loses its fire weakness, which is extremely nice, and its movepool allows me to keep it out for a LONG time. Stealth Rock seems easy to set up on Jirachi, since, through TWave and Iron Head, I can usually force a switch or stall long enough to set it up.

    ---​


    Conclusion:
    Overall, there is decent synergy. I was thinking about adding Toxicroak to have a water absorber, since in rain I still take a bit of a hit by anything that uses powerful water attacks. It plays like a mix between stall and just straight up sweeping, which I like, but the lack of water absorb, a ghost to counter rapid spin (if I get hazards up, which doesn't ALWAYS happen, but should), and various other things I feel like it won't make it to top 10, let alone top 100 (current goals). That said, I feel like rain is good enough to brute force it past some of these shortcomings, and I might be building my team too... stall-like to actually be effective. I also feel like I lack a good synergy, other than the obvious rain + water.

    I also have a horrible weakness to Kingdra, Magnezone (if thundurus-t is taken out), Genesect (just destroyed Starmie lead + electric attacks ._.) and various other 'mons. The updated team seems to share these weakness, ignoring the situations where I actually am able to set up properly (rare with Kingdra -_-).

    Any advice would be appreciated.
  2. Spyro

    Spyro

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    20
    You could replace skarmory for ferrothorn since it resists electric if thundurus dies also another resistance to water and fire moves probably won't kill it in the rain. Also good for walling dragons and leech seeding them or crippling them with thunder wave. Go with this set if you decide to use it:
    252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD Sassy nature 0 ivs speed if you are using gyro ball
    spikes
    leech seed
    gyro ball/power whip/protect
    Thunder wave/Power whip/protect
  3. MrBallsy

    MrBallsy

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Hi there,
    I'm fairly new to smogon so excuse me if my RMT isn't great. I have a good amount of experience using rain teams, and what is commonly seen is that most people go overboard on the watertypes, just like you're team as you stated. As far as typing, you are only really weak to electric, and it will be hard to take specs thunders from jolteon and such if Thundrus is dead. As a suggestion to improve the team, i would replace both skarmory and starmie with physically defensive Donphan for a spinner as well as a wall. It is also great against dragons, which you stated skarmory was good for. To give an example, ice shard 2hkos salamences trying to set up, and 3hkos dragonite with priority, meaning that with your ability sturdy, you will almost always prevent a dragon sweep. Also 2hkos landorus, which can be a problem in opposing sandstorm teams, something starmie may fail to do as they are usually scarfed and can OHKO it. Works well as a spinner and a stealth rocker, though you will lose spikes. It also provides an electric resist and opens up another slot on your team. As it carries stealth rocks, it opens up a slot for jirachi. I'd reccommend Ice punch or protect to cover vs. dragons you come in against, or for self healing, respectively.
    To combat your weakness to rotom, I'd highly suggest you run Calm Mind Celebi as your final poke. (A nasty plot one would work as well, but this can take hits with ease after a few calm minds). Celebi is awesome for any rain team, and I would normally suggest you run a specially defensive one (which, trust me, is amazing for rain teams), but you have a special wall in the form of rachi already. if you choose a specD celebi i would suggest making rachi more offensive with a choice scarfed variant. anyway here are the sets:

    Donphan@leftovers
    252 hp, 80 att, 176 def with an Impish nature. (You can go all in defense if you dont need the 2hko on landorus, but i find some attack investment always helps to hurt spinblockers on the switch)
    -Ice Shard
    -Earthquake
    -Stealth Rocks/Roar (Roar if you keep SR on rachi)
    -Rapid Spin

    Celebi (right off smogon)
    252hp, 96 def, 124 SPA, 36 speed
    -Calm mind
    -Recover
    -Giga Drain
    -Hidden power of your choice, or psychic.
  4. Blue Adept

    Blue Adept

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    I took your advice and ran the same Donphan and Celebi. I lost 5 times in a row >_> Could be me, but I just feel like the synergy is still lacking.

    I feel like, despite the coverage, the damage output by both is lacking. I got wrecked by a Kingdra (seriously **** it), walled by a Celebi by the team that had the Kingdra since I could not power up water, since Kingdra just destroys in Rain...

    Agh.

    Could ditching Keldeo for a Phys something to deal with Blissey (Toxicroak, MAYBE) would work?
  5. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
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    Hi,

    This looks like a pretty good team- aside from the glaring 4 pokemon electric weakness. I really like Mr. Ballsy's suggestion of Donphan instead of Starmie- it spins like Starmie does, it takes physical hits, and it deals massive damage with Ice Shard. I'm not sure if Celebi is a good idea however; it only makes you weaker to Dragons, and does not hit anything your team has particular problems with (bar Quagsire, who is rare)

    [​IMG]
    Donphan @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
    Adamant nature
    ~Ice Shard
    ~Stone Edge
    ~Earthquake
    ~Rapid Spin

    This set differentiates from MrBallsy's in that it hits harder. You really don't need much defense as you already have a great wall, Skarmory. Donphan's awesome ability in Sturdy allows you to hit your opponent twice- once hard with an EdgeQuake combo, and then once more with Ice Shard. This allows Donphan to be an awesome Dragon killer- first hitting hard with Stone Edge, and then hitting just as hard or even harder with Ice Shard. Donphan is also a great spinner too, and fits Starmie's job well.

    Now, for some minor changes. Because you have Thundurus-T as an excellent set up sweeper, I suggest you give Keldeo Choice Specs.


    Keldeo-R @ Choice Specs
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid nature
    ~Hydro Pump
    ~Secret Sword
    ~Icy Wind
    ~HP Ghost

    This allows it to hit like a truck- Hydro Pump will be Rain boosted, STAB boosted, and Specs boosted- for a total of 540 base power, coming off of 129 SpA and 108 Spe. Its Secret Sword will also be a valuable tool- it OHKO's Blissey, a huge defensive threat to your team. HP Ghost hits Lati@s hard, and Icy Wind nails DDancers like Dragonite.

    Thundurus-T needs Thunder instead of Thunderbolt. It hits a lot harder, and has 100% accuracy and 30% chance paralysis. Jirachi too- I will ask you to test Thunder instead of T-Wave- 60% paralysis rate, and hits all of the things T-Wave hits for pretty decent damage.

    That's all for now- good luck!
  6. Blue Adept

    Blue Adept

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
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    Alright, an update.

    I enjoy the updated team, with Donphan (despite Donphan not actually being extremely useful; Ice Shard barely does any damage (it isnt supposed to but...) and rapid spin being his only real use (I guess ground switch ins are another use, too)...) and Spec Keldeo.

    One concern, though, is that I lack a water absorber, which I believe would be extremely useful in the current meta, especially while running a rain team, where a water poke on the other team can sweep my own water team if I have the wrong Pokemon out at the wrong time.

    Any thoughts, help, etc?

    Also, minor update: Im debating testing out Seismitoad and Gyarados (after having read the Calm Before the Storm RMT), since it seems like Keldeo's main purpose (for me) was a Blissey counter, as there is little to no setup involved in OHKOing Blissey w/ Secret Sword, especially considering it uses Specs. Seismitoad would replace Donphan, which does make hazards an issue, though working around them is possible from what I have seen (more testing is required). I still am :( since I do not have a ghost to soak rapid spins, which makes me miss my Jellicent from BW1 Stall (the team gets destroyed by Therians), though I do not think Jellicent would actually work as well as it did back then.

    Hurricane Tornadus-t is also giving me a lot of trouble with the current setup...

    Celebi also walls me badly.
  7. Blue Adept

    Blue Adept

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    Just another bump to see if I anyone else wants to throw in their opinions/fixes to the current iteration of GRT.

    I have updated the team in my original post.
  8. Rwhite84

    Rwhite84

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
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    Hey a few suggestions for keldeo

    I would reccomend Surf > Hydro pump as the additional power is needed less than the chance of a miss screwing you

    And Timid > Naive I don't know why you want your defense lower? ._.

    And Hidden power grass > Substitute so jellicent can't screw you over
  9. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    Hey, cool team, though it looks extremely weak to Rotom-W (which you simply can't switch into) as well as other water-type pokemon such as Gyarados, or Kingdra. It seems for me that the best way of foxong this would be using Ferrothorn instead of Skarmory, since Ferrothorn basically walls every Dragon-type pokemon Skarmory did, but while providing your team with a check to water type pokemon. Here's the set:

    Ferrothorn@Leftovers | Iron Barbs
    Relaxed Nature | 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
    Stealth Rock / Power Whip / Gyro Ball / Leech Seed


    You may be wondering why I suggested Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn if Jirachi has Stealth Rock already, right? Well, while this is more personal.preference, I think that your team would benefit a lot from using SubCM Jirachi instead of your current set. SubCM Jirachi is great answer to opposing rain teams, and it can pose as an offensive threat against most teams, while also being a good answer to stall teams. Jirachi still checks pokemon like Tornadus reliably, so no worries here.

    Jirachi@Leftovers | Serene Grace
    Timid Nature | 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Thunder / Substitute / Calm Mind / Water Pulse


    If you decide to do the change on Jirachi, you could also try Agility instead of either Nasty Plot or Focus Blast on Thundurus-T, as this will allow Thundurus-T to perform better against offensive, fast teams, and it gives your team a late game cleaner, which it lacks. This change helps you in general against offensive teams, which you have some troubles with. I also think you should use Hidden Power Ghost instead of Substitute on Keldeo to avoid being walled by Jellicent, since Substitute doesn't make much sense along Life Orb. If you want to keep Substitute, Leftovers would be the optimal item.
  10. Blue Adept

    Blue Adept

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    This would be an interesting change, and i will definitely try it. The only issue I have, though, is the lack of a consistent phaser, which Politoed isn't :/

    Breloom seems to do well against Rotom-W, though a Sun Team w/ Rotom-W would probably destroy me, and has in the past.

    The +2 Thundurus also seems like it would be very good, as Agility seems like it would help against the various other things that can outspeed and OKHO it with some damage. The coverage would also be nice.

    The Sub/CM Jirachi is definitely a change I would try out, but again, I feel like unless ferrothorn can tank a good setup, I won't be making it very far. I could be completely wrong, though :P

    Also, minor edit: My team seems to be walled hardcore by a SD Celebi :/
  11. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    Well, the suggestions I made referred to the Politoed/Keldeo/Starmie/Skarmory/Thundurus-T/Jirachi team... which I think was fine after the changes I suggested, so try that out! Flash Cannon over Water Pulse on Jirachi is a good option if you are worried about Celebi, btw

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