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Gengar (In Progress)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Steven Snype, Nov 7, 2010.

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  1. Steven Snype

    Steven Snype
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    Phil edit: I was asked to lock this until after the first round of suspect testing, as Gengars sets are heavily impacted by the current "obvious" suspects.

    Setsuna edit: PM when you want this in OU again.

    [​IMG]
    Gengar

    ==================================
    Status: Working on Skeleton
    ==================================

    [Overview]

    • Amazing 130 base Special Attack and 110 base Speed
    • Typing and ability grant it three immunities to switch in easily.
    • Great Offensive Spinblocker.
    • Access to Trick lets it cripple bulky opponents.

    [SET]
    name: SubSplit
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Pain Split
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Focus Blast
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4/Def 252 SpA/252 Spe
    nature: Timid (+Spe - SpA)

    Set Comments

    • Helps defeat Stall.
    • Shadow Ball and Focus Blast provide perfect neutral coverage.
    • Substitute prevents Status
    • Pain Split allows Gengar to replenish health and cripple bulky opponents such as Blissey.

    Additional Comments

    • Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit Steel types if Focus Blast's accuracy is a turnoff.
    • Thunderbolt goes great with Ghost and provides some excellent Neutral coverage.
    • .

    Teammates & Counters

    • Gengar appreciates Toxic Spikes support to help wear down opposing non-Steel Walls.

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Shadow Ball
    move 2: Trick
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice /Psychic
    item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
    evs: 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 Def
    nature: Timid (+Spe - Atk)/ Modest (+SpA - Atk)
    Set Comments

    • Shadow Ball is there for STAB.
    • Focus Blast gives it unresisted coverage.
    • Trick cripples any bulky or transition mon the opponent may send in. If holding Specs, Trick can be used to bait a physical attacker in and force it into one move while not gaining any bonus. Similarly, Scarf hurts Stall teams by giving their insanely slow members a marginal speed boost.

    Additional Comments

    • Psychic hits Fighting types such as Roopushin.
    • Thunderbolt hits water such as Gyarados for SE damage.
    • Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit Steels.

    Teammates & Counters

    [SET]
    name: LO Sweeper
    move 1: Shadow Ball
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire/Hidden Power Ice/Protect
    move 4: Thunderbolt/Protect
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4/Def 252 SpA/252 Spe
    nature: Timid (+Spe - SpA)

    Set Comments

    • Shadow Ball is there as generic STAB.
    • Hidden Power Fire hits all of the common Steel types, bar Heatran, for supereffective damage.
    • Protect scouts for Choiced attacks.
    • Hidden Power Ice lets Gengar hit Garchomp.
    • Thunderbolt hits Bulky waters for SE damage.

    Additional Comments
    • HP Ice can be used to hit dragons instead.
    • Substitute can be used to block status; however, it increases Gengar's frailty.
    • Taunt can be used to prevent the opponent from the enemy from healing or statusing Gengar.
    • Psychic hits bulky Fighting types such as Roobushin.

    Teammates & Counters
    • Zuruzukin provides great offensive synergy as not only do they resist each other's weaknesses, Gengar can hammer the Physical walls that prevent Zuruzukin from sweeping and Zuruzukin can beat up the Special walls that prevent Gengar from switching in.


    [Team Options]

    • Fighting types such as Roopushin appreciate Gengar's ability to dent bulky Ghosts and Grounds. Similarly they can handle Special walls that Gengar may have to face.
    • Gengar will appreciate hazards, especially Toxic Spikes as the additional damage per turn pressures Special walls such as Blissey.
    • Gengar's immunity to Fighting, Ground, and Normal make it a prime candidate to handle physical threats such as Roopushin invite teammates such as Doryuuzu to sweep.

    [Optional Changes]

    • Evil Eye can be used in Conjunction with Toxic Spikes to have a powerful Base 150 move (including STAB).
    • Destiny Bond can be used to net a surprise kill.
    • Will-o-Wisp can be used on the switch-in to burn the incoming physical attacker to help out your team if Gengar has done its job.
    • Grudge could be used as a gimmick.
    • Psychic hits nearly all the Fighting Types that threaten Gengar.
    • If Focus Blast's accuracy deters you from using a fighting type move, Hidden Power Fighting is an alternative with 100% accuracy, albeit with much weaker power
    • Taunt is also a weapon to prevent opposing walls from setting up or healing. However, it requires a lot of prediction. A mispredict could cost you the Gengar.
    • Hidden Power Ice hurts non-Yache Garchomp.

    [Counters]

    • Tyranitar defeats Gengar if it does not lack Focus Blast. If Gengar defeats it, Doryuuzu outspeeds it and KOs with Rock Slide.
    • Weak to most priority moves. Scizor beats HP-fire-less variants. Sucker Punchers also hurt Gengar.
    • Scarfed Latias and Latios can come in and hurt Gengar.
    • Blissey can wall Gengar forever if it is not running the SubSplit variant.

    [Dream World]

    • Gengar does not have a Dream World ability.
  2. Farewell

    Farewell

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    Would 0 HP Ivs help Pain Split on the SubSplit set (Less HP = Less average remaining HP) ? Also make sure the HP is divisible by 16 + 1, this way unless there is Hail/Sandstorm, Gengar can make 4 Subs, and be at 1 HP, rather than make 3 and be at 25%. This also makes Pain Split do more damage if Gengar is at 1 HP.
  3. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
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    HP Fight should be an option over Focus Blast, since it has 100% accuracy. Sometimes the missing percentage of FB can be really annoying...
    And Gengar has 3 immunities, not 2.
  4. Steven Snype

    Steven Snype
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    I'm not sure having 0 IVs does make a difference with Gengar's low base HP. Gengar's HP is 261 with the given EVs on the SubSplit set in the OP. (15 * 4 +1 = 61). Also, odds are that Shadow Ball or Focus Blast will do more damage to this to Gengar's foes in this offensively oriented meta than Pain Split will do.


    Added HP Fighting into OC and updated the OP.
  5. Garganator

    Garganator

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    I think that you may also add in OC little mention about new boosted Disable. Disable with Subtitute and Toxic Spikes support may be extremely annoying against non-prepared teams. But Toxic Spikes is a must. Or if you think it's viable enough, slash it in SubSplit set in place of Focus Blast.
  6. Luisv96

    Luisv96

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    How about Icy Wind lead?:
    Gengar @ Focus Sash Lv. 100 -- Levitate
    Nature: Modest - EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd (100.0 %)
    -Icy Wind
    -Shadow Ball
    -Taunt / Destiny Bond / Hypnosis
    -Focus Blast
  7. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    I don't think Psychic even deserves a slash on the Choice set. You're going to lock yourself into an attack that common Pursuit-users are immune to/resist? Seems like a bad idea to me, especially considering you don't even get STAB off of it. I think Thunderbolt is a far more deserving slash next to Hidden Power [Ice], or even next to Trick.
  8. Banryu

    Banryu

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    I loved this set in 4th Gen, don't see why it couldn't still be useful now.

    EVs/Nature: same as Special Sweeper
    Item: Wide Lens
    - Shadow Ball / Evil Eye
    - Focus Blast
    - Hypnosis
    - Will-O-Wisp
  9. XxbraedonxX

    XxbraedonxX

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    What about MYSTICgar? PS make sure to slash Pain Split over protect. It works great, allowing Gengar to beat Blissey/Chansey (I've done it several times). I found I never really use Protect, I just dive straight into the appropriate SE attack
  10. Steven Snype

    Steven Snype
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    Exactly what is this boost to Disable?

    The "lead" isn't really that helpful very much since a) people see teams before the match and can switch their lead accordingly to counter Gengar. Icy Wind will essentially become a waste of a moveslot. If not using Icy Wind, why not try a sweeper set?

    HP Ice has worked to deal damage to Dragons, particularly Garchomp with that awkward base 102 speed. It also OHKOs Salamence and Skymin. I've tried out Thunderbolt, and it hasn't really been that helpful for me since the only thing to hit it with worthwhile is Gyara. The only other common water type I've seen is Burungeru, who is hit harder by Shadow Ball.
    I do agree with your point on Psychic, but the reason why I have it slashed is so that it could threaten fighting types, specifically Roopushin who has the ability to break most teams' "Nattoguru" combination and is generally a powerful threat that Gengar could check, provided it doesn't Payback on the switch of course.

    The main issue I have with that set is that Gengar is very frail at taking hits, even when the enemy is burnt. If Hypnosis misses, Gengar may very well have just died during the turn it missed. That's my main issue with Double Status Gengar. Also, just because a set works well in 4th gen does not necessarily mean it will work in 5th gen.

    MYSTICGar if i remember correctly was developed during a meta where Scizor was prominent and was on at least a 5th of everybody's teams. Frankly, I have not seen many Scizors and Ttars it probably is not very viable in this meta due to the dominance and popularity of other threats such as Roopushin, (the current) Darkrai and Skymin.
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