gg no re

[dadoux]

Blah blah i'm not gonna do an introduction that no-one cares about, i'm gonna keep it short. I used this team for the smogon frontier, (lost 4-3 but i'm 3-2 with the team, with a stone edge miss as a loss, hi shakeitup) I tried to make an offensive team based around Landorus double dancer, who is a CRAZY good lategame sweeper, I'm actually kinda forced by the CCAT too, because those basatards made a really similar team meh. :(

Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball

Ferrothorn is my rain-check, my hazards user, and this set is so awesome, with leech seed, iron barbs, and rocky helmet, some pokemon are OHKO, it's kinda awesome to switch on a outrage and see the other pokemon destroying himself. I really can play without a ferrothorn on my team, it's really hard to switch into, he can handle both defensive and offensive teams, and he hits pretty hard with them stabs.

Why not double spikes ?

Rotom (Rotom-W) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 228 HP / 56 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden power Fire
- Signal Beam

2nd rain check, 1st voltturner (an obligation to any offensive team imo) and a check to mamoswine WHO IS A STUPID BITCH who can RK my babies. I actually love specstom but i can't really use it on my team, i got too many choices and i don't want to let my opponent have a free set-up opportunity. (you can't set-up on Trick users and CBnite, at all lol) Rotom-w with Nite is also my only issue to tank Keldeo, this pokemon is so damn broken.

And Calm rotom is useless, don't use it, it's bad, really bad.

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Atk / 112 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Fire punch / Healing wish

Thanks masterclass my arab master for this awesome set.
2nd voltturner, a good check to those strongs Draco Meteors users and to celebi / alakazam / Thundurus-t. I needed a good revenge killer and a bulky enough steel, Scizor was good but it's too frail and slow, and trick / healing wish is AWESOME for a last move, making me able to climb back in the battle (Healing wish on CBnite <33333333)

Gothitelle (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Psyshock
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt

Why not everyone is using this pokemon for real ? What is better than killing a Garchomp / Keldeo / Skarmory or tricking Ferrothorn / Donphan / Hippowdown ? Gothitelle is an awesome trapper, I won a lot of games because of his job, it's outstanding how it can grab a kill every game, Landorus couldn't sweep that well without him.

I tried Signal beam to beat celebi because hp ice celebi is the only pokemon that can wall Landorus without fearing a trap, he doesn't care about being tricked AT ALL (yeah I know you laughed when you saw this, I hate you with all my heart)

Dragonite (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- ExtremeSpeed
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Superpower

Sun check, second keldeo "check" until he freeze the crap outta me, and Barbarian sweeper. This pokemon hits so damn hard it's unbelievable, a banded Extremespeed is also a really good thing to have to finish off a fearsome pokemon, like a low hp Latios or Venusaur. Sleep talk is used as a 4th move because in my opinion, EQ and Superpower are not THAT useful, or at least less than avoiding a Breloom sweep.

Landorus (Landorus-T) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

The star of the team, a very strong late-game sweeper, and his job is supported by the whole team. SD is used against stalls team and Rock Polish, this thing is so bulky that I can actually do both when i'm feeling like it. After a +2, he can easily outspeed every scarfer in the game and kill them, I also tried soft sand for a boosted Earthquake, but i often have to fight on Landorus vs Landorus, and the Leftovers recovery is actually great to have in that position (with Rock slide flinch off course)

Rock slide is used over stone edge because i'm losing too damn much because of a stone edge miss, and actually the 30% flinch is really cool in the late game, I'd rather haxx than being haxxed ya know.

 

[MikeDawg]

The team is fairly solid... I'm having difficulty finding any big flaws.

Volcarona could prove troublesome if dragonite is weakened/volc isn't in ko range for espeed.
Venusaur could be troublesome if dragonite is weakned/venu isn't in ko range for espeed.
Sub Salac terrakion could be troublesome in general
Opposing ferrothorn in rain seem yucky... but lando does a rather swell job of dealing with them and goth can do well.
SD Scizor can also be an icky threat

Idk... as mentioned, it's really solid and all of these mons are stretches, with only subsalac rakkion being truly uncovered (but that's rare and hard to set up so it really doesn't matter)

My only suggestion is to maybe find a place for rapid spin support for dnite since it is clutch against so many threats?

I really have no clue as to where it can be fit in, though, as I haven't had time to use the team and see what is more dead weight, though it's something to consider.

 

[MCBarrett]

Hey Morpheus, thanks for the request! This is a really interesting and unique team which made it pretty hard to rate so I tested it for a little bit to see if I could come up with any ideas. I couldn't really justify changing any of your members because they do support each other quite nicely but I think a couple of changes in movesets/ EVs could help you with certain threats.

First of all, I found Ferrothorn to be extremely annoying since Tricking it into Spikes with Gothitelle doesn't help anything since you don't have a spinner and it really isn't optimal to bring Dragonite in the game too early, in case you can't set up a Healing Wish for some reason. I figured since Ferrothorn commonly switches in to Rotom-W that HP Fire over Pain Split would be a good option. Pain Split is pretty unreliable anyways and Rotom-W isn't doing much late game in most cases.

Next, I think you should be using Superpower over Sleep Talk on Dragonite. Air Ballon Tran with HP Ice is a major pain for both of your late game cleaners and Breloom isn't really too much of a problem to your team at all, with it's only safe switches being Goth locked into Tbolt or Rotom-W if it has Lum.

Finally, I can see a Lucario weakness on this team if it is running Ice Punch. If Rachi and Goth are worn down/ out then Lucario has a good chance of sweeping with SR up. For that reason I would run Max speed Adamant on your Landorus-T to be able to outrun Lucario and OHKO with EQ. Or you could even set up on it if it doesn't have Ice Punch. I would also personally run Stone Edge over Rock Slide since the loss of power outweighs the small accuracy boost imo but its really personal preference.

Hope my suggestions helped! Good luck with the team!

 

[Prinz]

Hi, I got your request.

First of all, imo you should follow MCBarret's advice about Dragonite and Landorus. Superpower on Dragonite is useful to hit HP Ice Heatran which is a big threat for your team and to hit Ferrothorn in rain as well, which is somewhat annoying. I don't think Breloom is a big threat for this team so Sleep Talk is quite useless (you have Gothitelle which can easily trap-kill it). I prefer Stone Edge on Landorus as well, but if you prefer Rock Slide you can keep it I guess. It's just a preference of mine.

Then, I found out that Volcarona, Venusaur and Sun teams in general are really threatening for your team to face. HP Ice Volcarona can 6-0 you once Stealth Rock are up (and it can setup on Ferrothorn / Rotom-w easily) and Venusaur can do the same if Venusaur has already tanked some hit. I think that the only way to check Sun teams without changing too much in your team is to run Thunder Wave instead of Will-O-Wisp on your Rotom-W to paralyze Venusaur and Volcarona when they try to setup on your Rotom-W. Try it and see how it works.

My last suggestion is to consider Fire Punch on your Jirachi somewhere (probs in the last slot) because Sword Dance Scizor without Will-O-Wisp Rotom-W is even more threatening than before. It can basically setup on your Ferrothorn / Jirachi locked into Ice Punch / Gothitelle locked in any move / Dragonite locked into any move except Fire Punch and then progress to do lots of damage on your team so yeah I'd personally try Fire Punch on the last slot of your Jirachi to revenge-kill it without any problem once it used Sword Dance.

Nice team though, hope my advice helps somewhat and good luck with your team!

 

[tab]

So, to expand on what I said on IRC: I think your main problems really stem from not having a reliable rain check, and ScarfRachi being kinda stuck on at the end.

RH Ferro and offensive Rotom are both pretty shaky when it comes to switching into Scalds and powerful Hydro Pumps (i.e. Specs Keld hit and run which means you can't reliably check it with Goth). I think a good way of fixing that is to go with physically defensive Gastrodon over Rotom - 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef Bold with Scald / Ice Beam / Toxic / Recover. You'll lose a bit of offensive presence, but on the whole it should make up for that by providing a good way to pivot around the more dangerous pkmn for your team.

If you go with Gastrodon, you don't really need a scarf on Jirachi - the only dragon you're really going to need Scarf for particularly is Dragonite, which isn't setting up on anything. Jirachi is still a good idea for your team, so I'd suggest going with a slightly bulkier set with Leftovers: something along the lines of 176 HP / 124 Atk / 112 SDef / 96 Spe Jolly, which gives you a reasonably high Leftovers number, speed to beat Mamoswine (and a bonus point to speed creep other things looking to do that), a decent amount of special bulk for sponging hits, and enough attack to do a good job offensively. You're obviously going to want Iron Head and U-turn, and Fire Punch is a good idea seeing as you're replacing Rotom. Other than that, you can pretty much choose between Wish (works well with Landorus and Dragonite), Healing Wish (unorthodox on non-Scarf Rotom, but you seem to like it), Body Slam, Zen Headbutt (nice for Keldeo and Tentacruel) and Ice Punch for the last slot.

Other than that, it's a pretty cool team, so good luck!

 

[dadoux]

It's an offensive weatherless, I mean you should expect to be a bit sun weak, with Healing wish, CBNity and Gothitelle, I'm not that worried about beating them tho, as Nite can put a lot of pressure, and Donphan can spinn on a Rocky Helmet Ferro. Thunder wave is good but not really what i want, Wow or hp fire is really more useful because as you said, SD zor is really annoying without it (i usually play around with Landorus and Ferrothorn to kill and then come back with Healing wish on Lando like nothing happened)

Moar speed sounds nice, Baloon Tran packs hp ice and outspeed Dragonite so i can't switch on it anyway, and Ferrothorn is tricked by Gothitelle and give me a free set-up later in the game, i'm gonna try Superpower.

I'm not liking the Fire punch suggestion at all on Scarfrachi, like I said I can handle Zor with Rotom-w / Ferrothorn / Landorus by playing smartly (what you need to not be fucked when you playing a team like that trust me lmao) and Fire punch is so easy to set-up into, Dragonite, Lando-T, Keldeo, Heatran, Garchomp, they can all have a free day to set-up on me, Trick and Healing wish are way too useful for the offensive synergy of the team, I can't change it.

The Idea of scarfless jirachi could be nice but Latios and Alakazam could screw me in the long run and that's primarly why i'm not running it without it, definitively gonna try that Gastrodon tho.

I tried LO Starmie on Rotom, and it sucks btw.

Tl:dr : y Moar Speed on Lando-T y Gastrodon PhysTank, n ScarfRachi Fire punch, n Thunder wave, not sure about Scarfless rachi.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Yo Morpheus, I got the request, so here's my rate man.

So I'm really liking the combination of CB Nite + Double Booster Landorus-T, as they really break down each others counters very nicely, while Healing Wish Jirachi allows one of said Pokemon to clean up late game. The first thing that really sticks out for me is Ferrothorn to be honest. I feel it's too stallish for this kinda team that I feel wants to grab quick kills and sweep easily with Landorus-T. Have you ever considered using Custap Berry Skarmory? I mean it makes you slightly weaker to Rain spam, but I feel the combination of Gothitelle trapping dangerous threats + Dragonite and Rotom-W means you won't be too weak to rain spam. Custup Berry Skarm really helps out Landorus-T in sweeping and Dragonite in Wall Breaking, as with Spikes damage on top of SR, you'll be able to break through the sturdiest of walls with +2 Landorus-T.

My next few suggestions aren't drastic changes, but in general are just move suggestions. My first one would be to change Sleep Talk to Super Power on Dragonite. Some people have already mentioned that you're quite weak to Air Balloon Heatran, and this helps you out so much for hitting Heatran. I can only really see Sleep Talk being helpful vs. Breloom, which you already have Gothitelle for, so it's a waste of a moveslot at the moment imo. My next suggestion would be Stone Edge over Rock Slide. I know you've said you prefer the 30% and 10% accuracy boost for less power, but Landorus-T really need to break through walls like Skarmory and Latias, which it isn't going to be able to do with Rock Slide.

Other than that I don't really have any other suggestions. I feel you're kinda weak to Sun teams with Venusaur, but I don't really know what to suggest without ruining your strategy of the team. The best thing I can suggest is just keep Dragonite as healthy as possible.

Cool team man :]

 

[dadoux]

Ferrothorn got the perfect balance between walling things like voltturn, and hitting hard with Pwhip / Gyro ball. With rocky helmet+Leech seed, you can't believe how much it can wear down the opponent team (and that's why i'm not of a fan of gastrodon since he can't it nothing, but Rotom-w got a lot of counters too, so that's not a big deal), and like I said again, I really can't imagine playing without a pokemon as useful as him, that why i'm not feeling it, and I dont wanna be screwed by Spinner even more since he can spinn for basically free without fearing anything.

And with leads like Fblast chomp and Tbolt+Iron head rachi, having more than SR is a factor of luck, so I rather have a good overall support than a suicide lead.

 

[Shurtugal]

OK so I looked at it and I found that's it's pretty neat! To be honest I don't want to ruin.

I'm not sure I like Rocky Helmet on Ferrothorn though. I'd replace it for pretty much anything else -- likeChople Berry to catch Specs Keldeo, or perhaps Custap Berry for a fast (ha!) Gyro Ball. Leftovers seems like it'd work too and I'd adivse any over your current item choice (because bar Scizor's U-turn what are you whittling really? Perhaps I just dont see it but most things like Breloom or Specs Keldeo (or any Keldeo really) or SD Luario are still going to come in and RH is a waste when you can run something a bit more offensive to match your team's playing style!)

Good luck! I like the team a lot :)

(You could throw Bulldoze on Ferro too to catch Lucario but not sure what I'd replace. Perhaps Leech Seed but I like that attack so much since it's spammable so it's up to you.)

 

[dadoux]

Sooooooooooooooooo, I did some of the changes from the team :

-Added full speed to Lando-T, because fk SDluke
-Added signal beam AND Hp fire on Rotom-w, to catch celebi and Breloom with a strong 2HKO, ( Calm Celebi is cleanly 2HKO with SR) and RK SDzor / hit ferro a bit i don't have time to pain split and wow, i just want to hit things right on, wow and PS are just gonna bring Celebi / Ferro / Loom / Ti@s / Hydreigon right on.
-Added Superpower over Sleep talk on CBnity
-Considered Fire punch as Rachi's 4th slot, i'm still using healing wish so i'm slashing it, but it can be good as a 2nd Luke / Zor RK, and it can do a pretty good chunk to Venusaur under the rain.

What i refused after testing :

-Gastrodon can't hit anything, he can tank but he gets hp grassed so damn easily without doing as much damage, the 4 move syndrome is also really bad, I have to choose between EP/EQ and Toxic...
-Scarfless rachi is damn weak, and I need to outspeed things, he dies really quickly without doing any damages.
-Rocky helmet can't be replaced, it's too awesome to let outrages from Chomp / Kyube / Nite damage them a lot, and u-turner like Zor / Rachi / Lando-T are severly wounded

 

[Shoka]

Hi Morpheus,
I tested your team on the ladder and I agree with Shurtugal about "Bulldoze" on Ferrothorn because JirachiSubCM is one of your biggest thread.
The only thing you can do against him it's to kill his sub and try to trick him with Gothitelle for that you have to sacrificed one of your Pokemon.
So it's really hard to catch him and I think Bulldoze on Ferrothorn is the solution of this thread.
Except that, you have a solid team here and I like it a lot. : )

 

[dadoux]

I could also use the Brave variant, it breaks his sub with a gyro / pwhip (and does awesome damages) and I could use spikes or twave over leech seed to cripple things but yeah, bulldoze is also fine, gonna try that

Also thanks for making me play gothitelle, mah nigga <3

 

[PDC]

Rating on request.

Now most of the bases have already been covered by the other raters, but as the team stands it still does have some issues. Overall the team is solid, but there are some things everybody else missed. First off, the small stuff. Dragonite should shift its 4 HP to 4 SDef so you can switch into Stealth Rock 5 times. Small adjustment, but it may help you out sometime if you manage to get DNite in 5 times unharmed. Outside of that as tab mentioned you're basically derailed by Starmie / Keldeo on Rain which can continuously come in and beat you to death with Analytic and Specs / Scarf Hydro Pumps. If Gothitelle dies and Rocks happen to be up (you have no spinner) then you can basically get destroyed by EBelt Keldeo. Now although x-y is not a good rating strategy, I do have to take notice of how easy it is for Gothitelle to die. It can't really comfortably switch in unless you outsmart it while it Secret Swords or Hidden Powers. To solve these problems I propose switching to a-

yeah tab got here before me. use phys gastrodon

Good luck!

 

[dadoux]

Phys gastrodon sucks for the team, like really, and off course an offensive rain core is troublesome for a weatherless team, but i can RK both with gothitelle, you can say that Heracross destroys my team when Landorus-T is out, but that really non-significant since when i see those mons, i won't sacrifice my checks like a fool.