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BW UU Glitch Mob Stall

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Harsha, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 18, 2011
    Glitch Mob Stall




    After a long UU drought, I decided to dabble into the tier quite some time ago. However, I was surprised to find that it was nearly as stale as OU when I decided to play. Maybe it was because most teams had the same core, but I just decided that the metagame was even more stale than OU, and that's definitely saying something. I decided to quit, though my knowledge of the UU metagame came in handy at later points. With that said, I returned to OU, and eventually, I began to play Dream World. However, something about playing with Pokémon that you never get to see very often against other similar Pokémon just made me crawl back. Eventually, I came across and article introducing some cores in the UU metagame. While most were offensive, at the very end I found a stall core. Roserade, Slowbro, and Snorlax together can take on nearly threat in the metagame, quite an astounding feat. While I have never been much of a stall player, my first Battling 101 tutee was very into stall, and for this reason, I decided to embark on building this team.

    Stall should have a few key elements present on every team—one should always carry a Rapid Spin user, a source of entry hazards, a way to prevent opposing setups, and an unbreakable core that should stand up to every threat. I generally try and follow a formula of having the unbreakable core as my first priority, and the article I read provided me with that. Next, I generally try and fit a Rapid Spin user on the team. One never wants to lose a battle because he or she could not cope with with opposing stall; that's just silly. UU is not filled with many Rapid Spin users, though Hitmontop and Blastoise do a reasonable job. I chose Hitmontop so as to not aggravate an Electric-type weakness. After doing so, I realized I needed a source of Stealth Rock, arguably the best entry hazard in the game. Gligar not only provided me with that, but it also gave me another physically defensive Pokémon to stand up to an onslaught of hits. Lastly, I chose to go a classical stall route and pick a spinblocker. Mismagius gives me that and a bit of offense, which is definitely always appreciated.

    This formula never let me down, and the team peaked pretty high on the Smogon University ladder at number three under the alt -trippin- (an allusion to my old avatars—they were all trippy). Most people run Spikes-stacking teams or full offensive teams, so I was obviously put in a bad position in trying to maintain momentum and blow them over. However, this team has been quite solid, and I'm very proud of it. So without further ado, I present to you my heavy stall team! As a side, remember this is for BW1, and this team was made before the drop of Scrafty and Mienshao. I'm not looking so far as to change the team to meet the new threats, but if you guys can do that it would be great! Hitmontop generally covers them pretty well, but one should never use a spinner to counter threats of course, so I don't have a really sufficient answer there.

    Closer Look

    Roserade @ Black Sludge *** Starve The Ego Feed The Soul
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Rest
    - Spikes

    Despite the lack of a dedicated lead feature due to the advent of team preview, Roserade is probably my lead in 95% of the matches I play. This is all for good reason—Roserade can get up layers of Spikes quickly and sponge most special hits thanks to its great Special Defense. It is perfect against bulky Water-types and opposing Roserade because of Natural Cure. I do this to get the upper hand in most battles, though if people lead with a counter such as Chandelure, I will usually just switch out to someone to take the hit (most likely Snorlax). Roserade is actually a fairly unpredictable Pokémon, as it can run a multitude of sets such as Toxic Spikes, Spikes, and even a special attacker. However, I chose to go with the second for a few reasons. For one, while this team could use Toxic Spikes, most UU teams tend to carry a Rapid Spin user or a Poison-type, so they wouldn't last very long. A special attacker set simply wouldn't fit the role on a stall team. Because I wanted to use Roserade, I chose to go with a Spikes variant. This allows me to get damaging entry hazards down to wear down threats, such as Kingdra, Chandelure, and Krookodile, before they even get a chance to attack. Stall teams always benefit from this type of support.

    Roserade is crucial in walling many bulky Water-types, as most are scared off by potential Leaf Storm barrages. While I do not carry Leaf Storm, Giga Drain will still leave a mark, even without Special Attack investment. It also keeps Roserade healthy, a definite plus. While many people might argue that Toxic Spikes should be used over Sludge Bomb, it is my only way of scaring away Chandelure and preventing an opposing setup. While I actually do not mind Chandelure at all, I would rather allow the opponent to set up as little as possible. Toxic Spikes are unnecessary because I actually do not want to poison some threats. Burning them actually comes in handy much of the time, so that explains Slowbro's use of Scald. Spikes are necessary for Roserade, as they are a source of passive damage that weakens the opponent steadily and slowly. Getting down layers of Spikes and maintaining them throughout the match are essential elements in winning the game.

    Rest's use may seem odd, but one should consider Natural Cure. Most teams carry a Rapid Spin user, so it is essential that Roserade stays healthy until the opponent can no longer spin hazards away. Rest comes in handy when I need my Roserade at full health, and I can always switch out to cancel out sleep. However, one should never attempt to Rest against a threatening Pokémon such as Chandelure, as one misplay can cost a main source of damage throughout the match. This is never a good option to fall prey to, and it should be avoided as long as possible. Roserade is on the team for hazard support and walling, and maintaining this type of support is key to winning. It cannot be emphasized enough that it should not be foddered, even if it has a low base Defense. Only once the opponent has lost Blastoise or Hitmontop should Roserade be KOed, as that is when its job is usually done. However, keep in mind that without Roserade, threatening bulky Water-types becomes a lot harder.

    Hitmontop @ Leftovers *** We Swarm
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Foresight
    - Close Combat
    - Sucker Punch

    One of the bad things about UU is the general lack of viable Rapid Spin users. There are Hitmontop, Blastoise, Claydol, and really few more, unless Kabutops or something suits your fancy. I try not to rely on Claydol because it has absolutely no offensive presence and really gives up momentum, and with so many offensive threats and the prevalence of Spikes-stacking teams, it's just not a good idea. Blastoise is alright... But with Slowbro already filling the "bulky Water" position for this team, I decided to settle with Hitmontop. Hitmontop's ability is actually really useful a lot of the time, as it can negate Choice Band boosts on powerful attackers such as Heracross or Flygon. I generally send it out to take Fighting-types on, as it is really bulky and with Intimidate, it soaks most physical moves with ease. Rapid Spin is obviously there for when I get a free turn, and it really helps my Pokémon wall threats a lot better. Foresight helps me guarantee a Rapid Spin, especially if the opponent has a dedicated spinblocker or Ghost-type. While some use Toxic to wear those down, I really would rather use Rapid Spin as quickly as possible.

    While Hitmontop does not attack much, Close Combat is useful when I need to get some damage on a predicted switch-in. It also helps against Steel-types that can't really be harmed much by my team aside from passive damage. Sucker Punch allows me to hit enemies before they can get me, even with Hitmontop's low Speed. I generally don't use Sucker Punch too often because it's not too reliable, but if I'm up against a low health Sharpedo that's trying to sweep me late-game, I can usually surprise the opponent with Sucker Punch. While I debated using Rocky Helmet because it could help out with passive damage, I ended up going with Leftovers because it's the most reliable item in the game, and because I want Hitmontop to stick around as long as possible.

    One of Hitmontop's shortcomings is its susceptibility to Toxic Spikes. If the opponent is able to get them down, I have to get Roserade in as quickly as possible to rid the field, else I can end up losing Hitmontop very quickly and can faint myself falling to entry hazards in the late-game. While Claydol is immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, I chose Hitmontop not only for its defensive capabilities, but also for its ability to use offense when I need it. I also really enjoy the ability to lower the opponent's Attack without having to use Reflect, as if the opponent gets a Pokémon such as Substitute + Dragon Dance Kingdra in, it can spell doom. With the defensive EVs and an Impish nature, it's not hard to see that Hitmontop can hold its own.

    The defensive duo of Hitmontop and Gligar allow me to wall otherwise dangerous threats such as Heracross and Flygon with relative ease, and with Slowbro added to the mix, I have a batch of Pokémon that can stand up to even the fiercest of UU's physical attackers. Sharpedo and Heracross are probably the most notable Pokémon that Hitmontop checks, as Heracross's moves are either resisted, or just outright don't do too much damage to Hitmontop, while Sharpedo can beat my other two walls should it get a good opportunity. I know I shouldn't use a spinner to wall Pokémon, but in the case that my opponent has one of the aforementioned foes, I have to keep Hitmontop alive as long as possible. It's survival can be crucial in winning the match, though sometimes, Hitmontop fails to stand out at all. It's probably the Pokémon that can either do the most or the least for the team, but that doesn't bother me much because it's not a part of my main core.

    Slowbro @ Leftovers *** Animus Vox
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpA
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Slack Off
    - Calm Mind / Toxic

    Slowbro is a key component of my core between Roserade, Snorlax, and itself. It helps with the physical aspect, and between these Pokémon, very few threats can get through. Additionally, along with Hitmontop and Gligar, Slowbro helps wall a majority of the physical threats in the metagame. Of course, burns come in handy for this job, and Scald provides just that. Mismagius's Will-O-Wisp helps out as well on unsuspecting opponents, and if the opponent suffers a burn, it is highly unlikely that it will get through Slowbro, let alone the other walls on the team. Regenerator is probably the biggest reason Slowbro is such a good wall—the ability to regain a third of its health ensures that Slowbro is always healthy, along with access to Slack Off. I generally use Slack Off if I'm up against a Choice-locked Flygon using Outrage, or in a similar situation. When entry hazards start eating me alive, Slowbro also makes good use of the move.

    I always send out Slowbro as my secondary line of defense early in the match, as I would rather keep it in prime condition. My reasoning for this is because I can allow Gligar to come out first and set up Stealth Rock quickly, while Slowbro is preserved at full health for later on when it can fish for Scald burns. Additionally, I need to ensure that my opponent cannot get Toxic Spikes up, as my Roserade does not carry Heal Bell. If Slowbro gets poisoned, its staying power is reduced badly.

    I usually only use Scald and Slack Off, but every so often, Slowbro finds a chance to sweep in the late-game. With Calm Mind, I can set up boosts against Pokémon that can't harm me and then proceed to sweep with Scald and Psyshock. The coverage granted by the two moves might not be optimal, but it is usually enough to get the job done if I am aiming for a sweep. However, on earlier variants of the team, I used Toxic so that I could spread even more passive damage at the cost of the ability to sweep. Needless to say, this is not a bad trade-off, and I sometimes find myself turning back to Toxic now and then. Both moves have proven to be useful in certain situations, and while I wouldn't say they are interchangeable, both get the job done.

    Obviously, Slowbro's naturally high base Defense and its heavy investment in defensive prowess is what keeps this thing going. Without the EVs, Slowbro is not nearly as effective. Some run Rocky Helmet, but just like Hitmontop, I chose to use Leftovers. This case is arguably more odd, as I have a healing move and the ability to regain a third of my health by simply switching, but Leftovers is an insurance against poisoning for me, and that's a good enough reason to run it. If I play the match correctly, I won't need to predict anyways, and the opponent will be worn down by constant switching rather than taking indirect damage from trying to batter Slowbro.

    Snorlax @ Leftovers *** We Can Make The World Stop
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 208 HP / 124 Def / 176 SpD
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Body Slam
    - Whirlwind

    Quite frankly, Snorlax is a monster. It's been my MVP in every single game I've played, and I cannot imagine another Pokémon in its spot. Even the best special walls (Blissey and Chansey) cannot touch Snorlax, as it has a great Attack stat to work with along with great defenses. While I could have gone a Choice Band route, I decided to give this set a try after seeing it featured in an article. Boy, I was sure impressed. Snorlax takes hits like a champ, but it isn't limited to only sponging for me. In addition, it can dole out some monster damage, doing over 70% to standard Roserade. That's nothing to scoff at, and while most will think that this is no big deal, Roserade is the most common Pokémon in the tier. While I do love the Choice Band set, as Pursuit and Crunch are very fun options to utilize, and Earthquake always comes in handy, I don't regret choosing this one. The reasons are not only limited to the amount of damage it can deal, but its ability makes it a stellar choice as well. Snorlax takes half the damage it normally would from Ice and Fire attacks aimed at Roserade or Gligar, so it makes for the ideal switch-in to Chandelure and the like.

    Normally, when people make remarks at the mono-Normal-type coverage, all I need to do is Whirlwind them out. This helps me rack up entry hazards damage on the opponent, which is my main method of dealing damage. I have never seen a phazer more effective in any tier, though Dragonite can definitely give competition. Snorlax has just enough offense to force switches, yet just enough in its defenses to ensure that a mispredict does not cost a game. While RestTalk may be a mostly dead strategy, Snorlax does well with it. Rest, while normally not the preferred mode of recovery for most, is great because it cures Snorlax of status. Sleep Talk allows me to maintain momentum by allowing me to move even while asleep. The odds of Snorlax's doing something helpful are nearly those of Focus Blast's hitting, so I am not overly concerned about being dead weight. Besides, I have plenty of teammates to clean up the slack.

    Though it may not be apparent given the EV spread, I use Snorlax to switch into all special threats that Roserade doesn't entirely wall. I don't fear poison, burn, paralysis, or even sleep because of Rest (and Sleep Talk), so I can be a bit more liberal with my Snorlax play. Don't let my saying that fool you, though; I play very conservatively with this team. I can't lose any of my Pokémon prematurely without putting serious strain on the rest of my team. Whirlwind is probably the biggest pro for Snorlax. Phazing is a godsend, especially because I aim to get my entry hazards down as quickly and aggressively as possible. If I can do this successfully, Snorlax has a field day in every battle. While strong Fighting-types such as Heracross may seem like they cause a headache, I can turn Heracross to Gligar and give any other Fighting-type up to Slowbro, so I really have no problems there. Either way, Snorlax shouldn't be facing Fighting-types anyways unless they switch in, so this is hardly a problem. Like I said earlier, this is probably the best phazer I've ever used.

    Gligar @ Eviolite *** Fortune Days
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roost
    - Toxic / Aerial Ace
    - Earthquake

    Gligar was the last Pokémon added to my team, but it definitely is one of the more important ones. Basically, it serves as my catch-all counter to most physically based Pokémon, such as Krookodile, Flygon, and other common physical attackers. Additionally, it gives me probably the safest switch-in against Heracross, who can basically decimate the rest of my team. Before Gligar, I experimented with Empoleon because it had useful Steel typing and also had access to Stealth Rock; however, I found Empoleon to just compound a bunch of weaknesses, including those to the aforementioned threats. While Empoleon certainly has a much better attacking prowess, Gligar's Earthquake is good enough for me, and its access to reliable recovery in Roost is a definite plus.

    One of the biggest reasons I decided to use this fellow was Stealth Rock, as stall needs a means of dealing damage, and passive damage from entry hazards is often the way to do so. Stealth Rock is easily the best entry hazard in the game as it prevents Chandelure from freely switching in, and it's one of the biggest threats to my team. Every time Chandelure tries to switch into one of my Pokémon, all I need to do is switch to Snorlax and Whirlwind it out, allowing me to build up even more entry hazard damage on it. Toxic is another big reason I use Gligar. If I can build up enough passive damage from Toxic, I can eventually KO the opponent by simply switching at the right time. Toxic helps against threats such as Choice Scarf or Choice Band Flygon locked into Outrage or Choice Scarf Krookodile attempting to revenge kill another teammate. If either tries to switch out, I can simply badly poison the switch-in. I must make sure I don't use Toxic too often, as if I hit Heracross, the Choice Band variant may come back to bite me in the butt. However, it's a pretty safe move against most teams, and opposing Empoleon or other Steel-types, bar Registeel, won't attempt to switch into Gligar because of Earthquake. Aerial Ace was a later change that I used in order to break Swords Dance Heracross, as it's a large threat to stall.

    The given EV spread and nature maximize my defensive prowess, and that's easily the most important thing for Gligar. I can usually take a physical Empoleon, even after a Swords Dance, and finish it off with Earthquake—in my opinion, this is definitely a testament to its effectiveness. Obviously Eviolite is a major part of this, and I definitely need to watch out for the rare Trick user, as it can completely ruin Gligar. While Immunity seems like a good ability to have, I ultimately chose to run Sand Veil because of the prominence of Hippopotas + Stoutland teams in the metagame. While the hax often has no effect on the battle, Sand Veil is nevertheless a useful ability to have. Ultimately, Gligar became a key component of my defensive backbone, as the Pokémon that Slowbro cannot wall are walled by Gligar. Additionally, I don't necessarily have to switch Slowbro in on a physical attacker if Toxic Spikes are on the field, and this greatly helps out with longevity, even when you take Regenerator into consideration.

    Mismagius @ Leftovers *** How To Get Eaten By A Woman
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball

    Mismagius is probably the member I need to say the least about, as its role on the team is simply spinblocking. It functions similarly to Pain Split Gengar in OU, but without the coverage. Mismagius's great ability in Levitate allows me to find plenty of switch-ins to wreak havoc, such as a Choice-locked Flygon using Earthquake, or even something as simple as a Gligar attempting to set up Stealth Rock. However, I always have to be careful because unlike Gengar, Mismagius is not part Poison-type, meaning I can't switch into predicted Posion moves such as Toxic. Despite this shortcoming, Mismagius is great due to its high base Speed and its ability to burn the foe—this makes walling the foe much, much easier. While I cannot say Mismagius is great at taking hits, the rest of my team sure is.

    I used to run a bulky spread with 252 HP EVs, but Mismagius really let me down against threats such as Chandelure, so I decided to give it offense instead. This really hasn't failed me, and though I took hits with Mismagius much more easily before, I don't need to worry about that because my team covers up everything else. The only thing I really have to worry about is Pursuit, but Weavile, Snorlax, and Krookodile (and sometimes Heracross) are really the only threats that carry it, and I really don't want Mismagius to be in on them unless it gets the Will-O-Wisp burn. Mismagius is great because it takes down a pretty troublesome spinner: Claydol. Like I said earlier, Claydol is immune to Spikes damage, so it's hard to wear down, especially when not even Snorlax can do much damage. Howver, Mismagius 2HKOes it, and additionally, it blocks Rapid Spin.

    Pain Split is more of a last resort move, as I never really use it, but when Mismagius falls to low health, sometimes it can bail me out. It also can dent some Pokémon that Mismagius can't touch, and in return, another teammate can finish the job. However, I generally just switch in, use Substitute to scout the next move, and act accordingly to the situation. While Life Orb was an option, I wanted to stick with Leftovers because, like the rest of my team, Mismagius greatly appreciates the little bit of HP it gets back. Also, in my opinion Substitute and Life Orb are a bad combination, though some players enjoy using it. Be that as it may, Mismagius is the way it is, and it has probably changed the most out of all of the teammates due to flat-out testing and revamping.


    Well, that's my tale! My UU experience has been quite enjoyable and while I planned on using this team in the UU Open, the metagame changed far too much for the team to be as effective as it once was. Like I said before, I peaked at third with this team, showing its effectiveness against some of the top UU teams there are. I've enjoyed using it immensely because there hasn't been very much that can stand in its way. Snorlax is a truck waiting to run over something, and the rest of the team supports it as solidly as possible. I haven't run into too many threats that I couldn't take down, but of course anyone attempting to use this team should make note of the fact that my team does not cope well against hax. This isn't to sound cocky; rather, when one Pokémon falls early on, it'll be hard winning the game. For those of you wanting to use this team, be wary of this, and ensure that you are thinking about every threat possible when looking at team preview. If this is done successfully and you know what you're doing, you should be fine working with this team. As a side, I've tested an alternate variant with Frolass over Mismagius and Shaymin over Roserade, but this is the variant that I liked better, and even with Mismagius's lower base Speed, I have come to appreciate what it brings. Thank you for taking the time to read this; I appreciate constructive criticism and comments.
  2. morningsun


    Jul 18, 2012
    I know this is going into a lot of detail, but once hitmontop is removed, standard weaviles can sweep your entire team with ice punch, night slash, and low kick, especially after a swords dance or choice band boost.
  3. Mazz

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Feb 4, 2011
    Hey Harsha. Stay out of my tier =P

    With that aside, your team really suffers against powerful sweepers such as Rhyperior, Darmanitan, and Porygon-Z. Even Snorlax cannot stand a +2 Adaptability Tri Attack from Porygon-Z, as it will 2HKO, and has the chance for status. Rhyperior and Darmanitan are both fully capable of beating Slowbro, so do watch out for that. Another issue for this team would be Mienshao, as HP Ice takes a dump on Gligar, and the combination of Stone Edge, Hi-Jump Kick, Stone Edge, and U-Turn hurt your team. To give your team some breathing room, I'd like to suggest Defensive Cofagrigus over Midmagius. It's slower, but has much better defenses, and functions basically the same as your Mismagius set, except this one stops setup sweepers cold with Haze, which is always a boon for a stall team. Will-O-Wisp will neuter threats like Rhyperior much like Mismagius would do the same. Pain Split is also used, but gains a slightly higher drawback because Cofagrigus' HP is two base points lower. Rest may be used over Pain Split to help deal with status, as Cofagrigus can usually afford to sit through 2 turns. In addition, simply because the majority of your team focuses on physical defence, I'd like to suggest RestCM Suicune over Slowbro. Slowbro functions as more or less dead weight on this team. It's too slow and leaves additional room for things like Chandelure to switch in. With RestTalk Suicune, you gain a better bulky Water-type that can cleanly beat Darmanitan and the other Fire-Types in the tier all while shifting some of the special attacks from Snorlax and Roserade to a new Pokemon. Scald keeps the same chance for burn and Calm Mind gives you a way to finish a game and force switches, racking up on hazards damage. Rest keeps you healthy from status and damage, the former something that Slowbro had no way to recover from, and Sleep Talk allows you to stay in instead of having to hope that you have time to pass 2 consecutive turns.

    TL;DR - Use Defensive Cofagrigus and RestTalk Suicune over Mismagius and Slowbro. Sets listed below.

    Sets (open)

    Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
    Impish Nature
    252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Haze
    - Pain Split / Rest

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Bold Nature
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Calm Mind
    - Scald

    Good luck with the team. But seriously, get the hell out of UU. You make me look bad in OU, not letting it happen down here lol
  4. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Persona 5
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Aug 18, 2009
    This was one of the very best BW1 UU stall team. I don't have much to add since you mostly had every BW1 UU threat covered.

    Good job.
  5. Psychotic

    Psychotic Banned deucer.

    Oct 2, 2010
    Cool team, one of the only good UU stall teams out there. <3disc
  6. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown It's the last time running through snow
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Oct 6, 2011
    Cool team Harsha, it indeed looks very solid, though I have some suggestions to make it better. First, you should give a try to a 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD (with a Calm Nature) to Roserade. The evs in Defense do not accomplish anything especial, while running max Special Defense lets you take on LO Psychic Shaymin (which 2HKOs your current spread).

    Aside from that, you could use Toxic on Hitmontop. While I know you think that using Rapid Spin as soon as possible is better, you're still not able to Rapid Spin against Chandelure when using Foresight, as Choice Specs versions can simply OHKO Hitmontop. While Foresight lets Hitmontop spin on Cofagrigus, it just lets Cofagrigus a turn to set up, which is really dangerous considering only Snorlax and Roserade can somewhat stand up against OTR Cofagrigus, and they are bad checks to say the least. With Toxic, you can at least cripple it to the point where Snorlax can stall it out.

    I also support Pokemazter's suggestion of using Defensive Cofagrigus, as it seems the best way to deal with the new threats.
  7. Sayonara

    Sayonara don't forget

    Nov 18, 2011
    Yeah, this stall team is the best one I've used back in BW1 (thanks for letting me borrow it a while back!). Excellent team, Harsha. I find that status is a problem for your team, so you may want to consider Aromatherapy on Roserade (preferrably over Sludge Bomb). This specially defensive Roserade would be able to function well as a cleric.
  8. Pocket

    Pocket playing 100%
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Dec 22, 2004
    Beautiful RMT, Harsha!

    Glad that you're packing a phazer, Snorlax, since stall often falls prey to set-up wall breakers.

    However, I can see SD Baton Pass Mienshao and SD Guts Heracross giving this team a lot of trouble, since none of your mons really force them out. For this reason, the defensive Hazer Cofagrigus suggested by Pokemazter can really plug this hole completely. However, I would most likely make Cofagrigus a dedicated physical wall by maxing out its Defense, since +2 Heracross / Mienshao are not trivial threats that a mixed spread would comfortably check. Blastoise's Scald is not getting past Cofagrigus any time soon, so those SpD EVs seem rather arbitrary to me.

    If you really can't let go of Mismagius, another option is Qwilfish > Slowbro / Roserade. It provides a solid check to those Fighting set-up sweepers with its access to Intimidate & Haze. It can take over Roserade's spot as a Spiker, but that would put an additional pressure on lax to check special threats. Qwilfish can certainly make use the Spikes slot for something more useful like Taunt or Thunder Wave, anyways.

    I'd also support Expert Physic's suggestion to try out a cleric Roserade. I'd probably go Aromatherapy > Rest. With Aromatherapy, Cofagrigus can use Rest rather than the unreliable Pain Split and Snorlax can take more abuse for the team. By giving Aromatherapy to Roserade, you're essentially cutting some slack on Roserade from tanking special hits, since you can play with Snorlax more recklessly.

    If Aromatherapy does not end up being all that useful, at least Synthesis > Rest for some reliable recovery without being incapacitated in the process. Also go Immunity > Sand Veil on Gligar xd.

    Thanks for sharing your team, bro!
  9. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 18, 2011
    Weavile and Heracross are the two threats that break through my main defensive core, and are basically the reason I chose to use Hitmontop. Hitmontop is my stop to the former, so you can't really say that once it's down I get swept. I just keep it alive for as long as possible if I see a Weavile.

    Hey dude, thanks for the rate. You cited Rhyperior and Darmanitan as weaknesses but Darmanitan really struggles against Slowbro and Gligar, while Rhyperior does the same. The fact that almost every Rhyperior I see will be a support set augments this as well, and I seem to deal with them just fine. Keep in mind that this was a BW1 team, so Mienshao hadn't dropped yet ;). I've actually thought Slowbro to be one of my MVPs; its Speed is definitely not an issue, and I actually would love it to lure in Chandelure because that just means it will take entry hazard damage and Snorlax can just come in. Suicune is a no-go for this reason, as it doesn't have the utility of Slowbro (not to mention I have 1 RestTalk user already!). I'll definitely test Cofagrigus out, though I tend to appreciate the offense that Mismagius brings to the team. The ability to just get rid of boosts with ease is kind of tempting though, so I'll be sure to give it a serious look.

    Thanks man; it means a lot coming from you :)

    Thanks dude, means a lot :).

    Yeah, I picked the spread mostly because it seemed as though Heracross was a large threat, but with the addition of Gligar, Roserade can probably afford to run more Special Defense. I'll keep Cofagrigus in mind if I intend to adapt this to BW2, though Mismagius's Speed comes in handy pretty often. Not too sure on Toxic but I can't lose anything by testing it. Thanks for the rate!

    Thanks for the complements man! To be honest, Aromatherapy is really tempting, but coverage against a ton of other foes is too much to pass up and I have two teammates that already absorb status. Also Sludge Bomb lets me hit Chandelure, a pretty common switch-in. I'll definitely test it out again though!

    Thanks for your rate brother Pocket! Yeah the team was built before Mienshao was introduced and it definitely has trouble with that thing (this was the reason I basically didn't want to use it if I played in the UU Open). SD Heracross was pretty rare when I played with this team (I think it still is xP), but it's definitely a major threat because I can't simply stall it out with Gligar because of Guts. I actually am really considering Cofagrigus now because it definitely helps deal with Fighting-type threats and Haze is really hard to pass up, though I would lose a check to Chandelure if it happened to be the last Pokemon on the opponent's team. Aromatherapy over Rest sounds like a cool idea because I get recovery from Giga Drain already, albeit unreliable, but it sounds like it could be pretty helpful (and I like Sludge Bomb xD). Yeah Sand Veil was there because I built this in the sand era and I kinda overlooked that after sand got banned, lol. Thanks for the advice man, definitely a lot of suggestions to test out.
    dice likes this.
  10. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

    May 12, 2012
    Good job on an awesome team.
  11. Nas

    Nas Banned deucer.

    Oct 19, 2007
    I don't think there's much left to be said, it looks like a solid team in the meta it was built in, given that 4/6 of your team are picked apart by Gothitelle I'd assume you're retiring it now.

    Good job, <3disk
  12. Doom Dawg

    Doom Dawg

    Jun 23, 2012
    I have recently faced this team twice. I believe more players are using it too. I did indeed win both matches, because STRONG hitting Ghost attacks wrecks the team. Examples are Trick Room Cofagrigus and Sub-NP Mismagius. Surely you have Snorlax, but he is 2HKOed by Cofagrigus after SR and Nasty Plot, and also 2HKOed by Mismagius even without the Stealth Rock. To solve that problem I believe you should try yourself a SubNP Mismagius! It will provide perfect coverage, sheer power and it can still function as a bulky special defender. The current set is walled by normal types and a bulkier clean-up sweeper in a stall team is always useful. The set is the following:

    Mismagius @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    -Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Fighting

    What else can I say, maybe unresisted coverage with high power and after certain threats are “stalled out” or at least weakened with one NP or even behind a Sub you might late game sweep effectively.

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