OU Greninja

Jukain

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[OVERVIEW]

* Protean gives Greninja STAB on every move by changing it to the move's type upon use, making its great coverage very threatening.
* Thanks to Protean, which gives it STAB on every move and its wide movepool, Greninja has an option to hit any potential answer, so it can pick and choose its counters based on its team.
* Greninja has a fantastic Speed tier, outrunning threats like Latios, Keldeo, Mega Metagross, and Zygarde-10%.
* Access to Spikes with great coverage makes for a great offensive hazard setter.
* Frailty leaves Greninja susceptible to priority and revenge kills, while also being difficult to switch in.
* This is further worsened by low raw offensive stats that can make it difficult to achieve OHKOs at times even with super effective moves.

[SET]
name: All-out Attacker
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Extrasensory / Hydro Pump
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hydro Pump
item: Life Orb
ability: Protean
nature: Naive
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Ice Beam is a consistent STAB attack, enabling Greninja to hit the Grass-types and Dragon-types that normally wall Water-types while offering good overall neutral coverage.
* Gunk Shot covers Fairy-types, most notably Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele, Tapu Bulu, and Clefable. It also serves as a physical move with good neutral coverage, often serving as the best option to hit opposing Water-types, such as Mantine, Rotom-W, and Manaphy.
* Extrasensory covers Toxapex, Keldeo, Mega Venusaur, and Buzzwole while dealing good neutral damage to Rotom-W.
* Hydro Pump is Greninja's highest-Base Power attack, achieving crucial damage benchmarks on many neutral targets. It also covers Heatran and Tyranitar.
* Hidden Power Fire makes Greninja a Ferrothorn lure and effective Mega Scizor check, in addition to nearly 2HKOing Celesteela.
* Alternatively, it is viable to run Hydro Pump with Extrasensory if preferred.
* Dark Pulse can be run to hit Mega Metagross and Jirachi super effectively, as well as for its great neutral coverage in general.
* Hidden Power Electric lets Greninja lure and dispatch Mantine and Gyarados in addition to hitting Water-types in general super effectively.
* Grass Knot is also an option to hit Mega Gyarados and bulky Water-types other than Toxapex and Mantine hard.
* In general, the moveset should be chosen based on what Greninja's teammates want to be removed.

Set Details
========

* Full Special Attack investment maximizes Greninja's special attacking capabilities.
* A Naive nature ensures Gunk Shot's strength while making Greninja as fast as possible.
* Greninja's offensive stats aren't that high, so the power boost provided by Life Orb is absolutely necessary.
* Protean is used to give every move an additional punch in a STAB boost.

Usage Tips
========

* Greninja usually should not be switched in directly without a solid prediction or weak resisted move. Smart double switches and VoltTurn are typically the best ways to bring it in.
* It is sometimes worth thinking about how certain Protean types will affect Greninja's success against the Pokemon it is fighting and possible revenge killers.
* Scout for possible Greninja switch-ins and baits in the early game by throwing out a neutral coverage option instead of directly predicting a switch with a lure move.
* After identifying the opponent's choices to switch into Greninja, punish with the appropriate coverage move, if applicable.
* Greninja is at its best when it controls the tempo of a match. Understanding and making proper predictions with it is essential, as it can punch serious holes in this way. Aggressive, properly timed double switches maximize Greninja's effectiveness when it cannot break through a certain threat easily.

Team Options
========

* Sweepers and cleaners as a whole, which both benefit from weakened defensive cores, generally appreciate Greninja. Mega Charizard X, Pheromosa, Mega Scizor, Tapu Koko, and Mega Pinsir are good examples.
* Teammates that want specific foes, such as Toxapex, Ferrothorn, or Mantine, lured and KOed appreciate specific options from Greninja. For example, Mega Gyarados wants Ferrothorn and Toxapex eliminated before it can sweep.
* VoltTurn helps Greninja get in through its frailty, making Landorus-T, Tapu Koko, and Tornadus-T great partners.
* Defensive pivots, such as Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, and Rotom-W, help provide switch-ins against typical revenge killers and Pokemon Greninja cannot OHKO. Alolan Marowak is specifically helpful because it counters Pheromosa and Tapu Koko, some of the top choices to revenge kill Greninja.

[SET]
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Gunk Shot
move 4: Hydro Pump / Low Kick
item: Life Orb
ability: Protean
nature: Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Moves
========

* Greninja is the only viable offensive Spikes user.
* Spikes punish the many switches that Greninja forces without requiring the right coverage move and put significant pressure on defensive cores.
* Spikes make Greninja more versatile, as it can actually give defensive teams trouble with them.
* Greninja has options to cover common forms of entry hazard control.
* Ice Beam is Greninja's best STAB move, boasting the greatest overall neutral coverage and threatening certain Defog users, including Latios, Mandibuzz, and Zapdos.
* Gunk Shot can pressure Mantine and destroys Tapu Fini. It also hits other Fairy-types and provides good general neutral coverage.
* Hydro Pump is the strongest move Greninja has against neutral targets. In terms of covering hazard removers, it usually 2HKOes standard Mega Sableye and Mega Scizor.
* Low Kick, meanwhile, covers common defensive switch-ins to Greninja like Ferrothorn, Celesteela, Assault Vest Magearna, and Chansey, often catching them by surprise.
* Hidden Power Electric is an option over Gunk Shot to cover Mantine and Tapu Fini, two important Defog users, while nearly OHKOing Skarmory and covering other Water-types decently.

Set Details
========

* Full Special Attack and Speed investment maximizes Greninja's offensive capabilities and makes the most of its fantastic Speed tier.
* A Naive nature ensures Greninja outspeeds everything that it can while having no negative impact on Greninja's offensive capabilities.
* With Low Kick, run full Attack investment to maximize the power of it and Gunk Shot. The drawback of this is that Ice Beam becomes fairly weak, so keep this in mind when designing your Greninja's moveset.
* If running Hidden Power Electric, be sure to run a Timid nature and 4 EVs in Defense instead of Attack.
* Greninja's offensive stats aren't that high, so the power boost provided by Life Orb is absolutely necessary.
* Protean is used to give every move an additional punch in a STAB boost.

Usage Tips
========

* Use Spikes aggressively on the switches Greninja forces.
* Spikes should primarily be used when the opponent has a good defensive answer to Greninja. In other scenarios, especially in fast-paced matches against offensive teams, it may be suboptimal to use Spikes.
* Adjust your play with this set when facing offensive and defensive teams.
* Other than the addition of Spikes, Greninja should be played as normal, making the most of its coverage and pressuring with its attacks.

Team Options
========

* Use this set on very offensive teams, as offensive pressure to prevent Greninja's entry hazards from being removed is crucial. Try to avoid using Pokemon that are bait for common Defog users or just make sure that you have a way to play around them effectively, such as Swords Dance Mega Scizor to set up on Latios.
* It's probably not best to pair Spikes Greninja with Pokemon that have heavy Stealth Rock weaknesses because you do not want to require hazard control with this.
* Pokemon to lure or generally cover Ferrothorn, such as Hidden Power Fire Latios and Heatran, fit well with this set.
* Breakers that benefit from hazard pressure like Kyurem-B and Hoopa-U appreciate Spikes Greninja.
* Typical VoltTurn support from the likes of Landorus-T, Tapu Koko, and Tornadus-T to get Greninja in unscathed also applies to this set.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
========

* A set with maximum Attack investment that has Gunk Shot and Low Kick is usable, but it is generally outclassed by specially oriented Greninja.
* U-turn can be run to provide momentum against defensive threats, especially when combined with trappers.
* Shadow Sneak can be used to mess with Pheromosa and Mega Alakazam if desired and provide a priority move.
* Z-Happy Hour can set up for a sweep by giving a +1 boost to all of Greninja's stats. The issues with this are limited opportunities to set up and limited coverage, but such a set can sweep effectively under the right conditions.
* Psychium Z Extrasensory is a good lure to Toxapex, but the general power of Life Orb is sorely missed.

Checks & Counters
========

**Chansey**: Chansey is typically a hard counter to Greninja, though the Spikes set can take advantage of Chansey's passivity by setting up layers of Spikes that wear down Chansey and the rest of its team.

**Water-types**: Water-types resist Greninja's Ice Beam and Hydro Pump, so many can serve as effective answers to it. Suicune and Alomomola are fantastic counters to Greninja that lack Grass Knot. Gyarados and Mega Gyarados can set up on any Greninja that lacks Hidden Power Electric or Grass Knot. If Greninja lacks Extrasensory, Toxapex is typically a solid counter and Keldeo can check. Other good Water-types to check Greninja include Mantine and Rotom-W, though Mantine is slain by Hidden Power Electric are both are heavily pressured by Gunk Shot. For rain teams, the combination of Pelipper and Kingdra can help check Greninja.

**Steel-types**: Specially defensive Celesteela and Jirachi are fantastic at dealing with Greninja, as is Assault Vest Magearna. Celesteela and Jirachi must be careful of super effective Hidden Powers to some extent, though. Ferrothorn takes hits from non-Hidden Power Fire Greninja effectively and can take advantage of it to set up hazards or use Leech Seed to heal itself. Mega Metagross and Magnezone are decent checks for offensive teams to use against Greninja. Heatran technically walls any Greninja that lacks Hydro Pump, but that possibility is definitely not worth risking unless Heatran runs Passho Berry.

**Kyurem-B**: Kyurem-B is a very effective check to Greninja, tanking any hit from it fairly decently and responding with a powerful attack to KO.

**Bulky Psychic-types**: Cresselia is a perfect wall to Greninja without Dark Pulse. Slowbro also walls any Greninja that lacks Dark Pulse, Hidden Power Electric, or Grass Knot. Mew is a somewhat shady counter because it is 2HKOed if Greninja gets a poison with Gunk Shot, but it can work as a secondary answer.

**Mega Venusaur**: Mega Venusaur is decent at handling non-Extrasensory Greninja, serving as a good switch-in without Stealth Rock up and dealing with it very effectively if it has some Special Defense investment.

**Revenge Killers**: Naturally faster Pokemon such as Tapu Koko, Pheromosa, and Mega Alakazam; Choice Scarf users, such as Genesect, Landorus-T, Tapu Lele, Keldeo, and Latios; and priority attackers such as Bisharp and Zygarde, are very helpful for revenge killing Greninja, which can be the best option in many scenarios.
 
Last edited:

p2

Banned deucer.
[OVERVIEW]
  • Protean gives Greninja STAB on every move by changing it to the move's type upon use, making its great coverage very threatening.
  • Greninja has a wide movepool that gives it STAB on every move and an option to hit any potential answer, so it can pick and choose its counters based on its team.
  • Greninja has a fantastic Speed tier. give example of a couple threats it outruns
  • Access to Spikes with great coverage makes for a great offensive hazard setter.
  • Frailty leaves Greninja susceptible to priority and revenge kills, while also being difficult to switch in.
  • This is further worsened by low raw offensive stats can make it difficult to achieve OHKOs at times even with super effective moves.
[SET]
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Hydro Pump / Extrasensory
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Electric / Extrasensory
item: Life Orb
ability: Protean
nature: Naive
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Ice Beam is a consistent STAB, enabling Greninja to hit the Grass-types and Dragon-types that normally wall Water-types while offering good overall neutral coverage.
  • Gunk Shot covers Fairy-types, most notably Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele, Tapu Bulu, and Clefable. It also serves as a physical move with good neutral coverage, often serving as the best option to hit opposing Water-types, such as Mantine, Rotom-W, and Manaphy.
  • Hydro Pump is Greninja's highest BP attack, achieving crucial damage benchmarks on many neutral opponents. It also covers Heatran and Tyranitar.
  • Extrasensory covers Toxapex, Keldeo, Mega Venusaur, and Buzzwole while dealing good neutral damage to Rotom-W.
  • Hidden Power Fire makes Greninja a Ferrothorn lure and effective Mega Scizor check, in addition to OHKOing Genesect and nearly 2HKOing Celesteela.
  • With Hidden Power Fire, Extrasensory can potentially replace Hydro Pump to cover Toxapex and generally maximize overall coverage. It is also acceptable to run in place of Hidden Power Fire.
  • Hidden Power Electric lures Mantine and generally hits Water-types super effectively. add reg gyara too
  • Dark Pulse can be run to hit Mega Metagross super effectively and for its great neutral coverage in general. rachi too
  • Grass Knot is also an option to hit Mega Gyarados and bulky Water-types other than Toxapex and Mantine hard.
  • In general, the moveset should be chosen based on what Greninja's teammates want to be lured.

Set Details
========
  • Full Special Attack maximizes Greninja's special attacking capabilities.
  • A Naive nature ensures Gunk Shot's strength while making Greninja as fast as possible.
  • Greninja's offensive stats aren't that high, so the power boost provided by Life Orb is absolutely necessary.
  • Protean is used to give every move an additional punch in a STAB boost.
Usage Tips
========
  • Greninja usually should not be switched in directly without a solid prediction or weak resisted move. Smart double switches and VoltTurn are typically the best ways to bring it in.
  • It is sometimes worth thinking about how certain Protean types will affect Greninja's success against the Pokemon it is fighting and possible revenge killers.
  • Scout for possible Greninja switch-ins and baits in the early game by throwing out a neutral coverage option instead of directly predicting a switch with a lure move.
  • After identifying the opponent's choices to switch into Greninja, punish with the appropriate coverage move, if applicable.
  • Greninja is at its best when it controls the tempo of a match. Understanding and making proper predictions with it is essential, as it can punch serious holes in this way. Aggressive, properly timed double switches maximize Greninja's effectiveness when it cannot break through a certain threat easily.
Team Options
========
  • Sweepers and cleaners as a whole, which both benefit from weakened defensive cores, generally appreciate Greninja. Mega Charizard X, Pheromosa, Mega Scizor, Tapu Koko, and Mega Pinsir are good examples.
  • Teammates that want specific opponents lured and KOed, such as Toxapex, Ferrothorn, or Mantine, appreciate specific options from Greninja. For example, Mega Gyarados wants Ferrothorn and Toxapex eliminated before it can sweep.
  • VoltTurn helps Greninja get in through its frailty, making Genesect, Landorus-T, and Tapu Koko great partners.
  • Defensive pivots, such as Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, and Rotom-W, help provide switch-ins against typical revenge killers and Pokemon Greninja cannot OHKO. Alola Marowak is specifically helpful because it counters Pheromosa, Tapu Koko, and Genesect, some of the top choices to revenge kill Greninja.

[SET]
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Electric / Gunk Shot
move 4: Hydro Pump
item: Life Orb
ability: Protean
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Moves
========
  • Greninja is the only viable offensive Spikes user.
  • Spikes punish the many switches that Greninja forces without requiring the right coverage move and put significant pressure on defensive cores.
  • Spikes make Greninja more versatile as it can actually give defensive teams trouble with them.
  • Greninja has options to cover common forms of hazard control.
  • Ice Beam is Greninja's quintessential STAB move, boasting the best overall neutral coverage and threatening certain Defog users, including Latios, Mandibuzz, and Zapdos.
  • Hidden Power Electric covers Mantine and Tapu Fini, two important Defog users, while nearly OHKOing Skarmory and covering other Water-types decently.
  • Gunk Shot can pressure Mantine and destroys Tapu Fini. It also hits other Fairies and provides good general neutral coverage.
  • Hydro Pump is the strongest move Greninja has against neutral targets. In terms of covering hazard removers, it usually 2HKOes standard Mega Sableye and Mega Scizor.
Set Details
========
  • Full Special Attack and Speed investment maximize Greninja's offensive capabilities and make the most of its fantastic Speed tier.
  • If running Gunk Shot, be sure to run a Naive nature and 4 EVs in Attack.
  • Greninja's offensive stats aren't that high, so the power boost provided by Life Orb is absolutely necessary.
  • Protean is used to give every move an additional punch in a STAB boost.
Usage Tips
========
  • Use Spikes aggressively on the switches Greninja forces.
  • Spikes should primarily be used when the opponent has a good defensive answer to Greninja. In other scenarios, especially in fast-paced matches against offensive teams, it may be suboptimal to use Spikes.
  • Adjust your play with this set when facing offensive and defensive teams.
  • Other than the addition of Spikes, Greninja should be played as normal, making the most of its coverage and pressuring with its attacks.
Team Options
========
  • Use this set on very offensive teams, as offensive pressure to prevent Greninja's hazards from being removed is crucial.
  • It's probably not best to pair Spikes Greninja with Pokemon that have heavy Stealth Rock weaknesses because you do not want to require hazard control with this.
  • The combination of Rock Slide Stealth Rock Landorus and Spikes Greninja is extremely difficult to remove hazards against.
  • Pokemon to lure or generally cover Ferrothorn, such as Hidden Power Fire Latios and Heatran, fit well with this set.
  • Breakers that benefit from hazard pressure like Landorus and Hoopa-U appreciate Spikes Greninja.
  • Typical VoltTurn support from the likes of Genesect, Landorus-T, and Tapu Koko to get Greninja in unscathed also applies to this set.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
========
  • The neutral coverage of Dark Pulse hitting fat Psychic-types super effectively can be desirable, though its coverage is mostly redundant.
  • A set with max Attack investment that has Gunk Shot and Low Kick is usable, but it is generally outclassed by specially oriented Greninja.
  • U-turn can be run to provide momentum against defensive threats, especially when combined with trappers.
  • Hidden Power Grass hits other Water-types super effectively and provides a resistance to Water with Protean, but Grass Knot or Hidden Power Electric is typically better for that purpose. im pretty sure the only thing hp grass is used for is rotom, i would honestly just remove this because it deals enough damage with moves like esense/dark pulse
  • Shadow Sneak can be used to mess with Pheromosa if desired and provide a priority move. and mega zam
Checks & Counters
========
(will expand on coverage move issues that are missing after the first 2 QCs)

**Chansey**: hard counter usually except spikes

**Water-types**: Toxapex, Mega Gyarados, Suicune, Alomomola, Mantine, Manaphy, Keldeo, Rotom-W, and rain stuff can check

**Steel-types**: ferro and celesteela do fine against non-hp fire, jirachi, magearna, gene/megagross/zone can check, tran beats non-hydro but you probably shouldn't even try

**Kyurem-B**: check

**Bulky Psychic-types**: slowbro walls non-dark pulse/hp elec/gk, cress walls non-dark pulse, mew kinda deals with non-dark pulse so long as it doesn't get poisoned by gunk (shaky)

**Mega Venusaur**: deals with non-esens decently, unreliable without spdef evs (especially against spikes gren)

**Revenge killers**: faster mons (koko/phero/zam), scarfers (gene/lando-t/lele/keld/latios), certain prio (mainly espeeds)
1/3
 

PK Gaming

Persona 5
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This analysis and the usage tips especially are spectacular. The only thing i'd add is Mega Metagross and 10% Zygarde to the list of relevant Pokemon it outruns.

2/3
 
great analysis jewcane n_n.

mention z happy hour in OO. i brought it up in the discord and to a couple other players, and pmuch everyone says, "looks good, haven't used it." only set i've seen used is hpump / ice beam / hp elec / happy hour in case you want to specify those moves.

3/3
 
Could Toxic Spikes also be slashed? It may be a good idea if your team is somewhat stallish as if you have Celesteela. Of course, add the caveat for Pokemon such as Mega Venusaur and Toxapex. It doesn't seem to work against dedicated stall teams. (For some reason, I typed in "Stalin" when I was tying "stall" with "Stalin" capitalized.)
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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If the team is stallish you should be running Toxapex instead of Greninja. T-Spikes offense is pretty mediocre in general. As such, T-Spikes is a generally poor option on Greninja.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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Spikes sounds much more appealing on balance than Toxic Spikes. Toxic Spikes have to wait a few turns to really rack damage and have even more immunities than Spikes does (literally any Poison or Steel). OO at best.
 
I think Taunt should be an Other Option, due to its ability to screw over some defensive mons, Rock setter and the like. Greninja being the Second(?) Fastest OU mon with Taunt also helps it.
 

Lumari

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remove
add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/1
[OVERVIEW]

* Protean gives Greninja STAB on every move by changing it to the move's type upon use, making its great coverage very threatening.
* Thanks to Protean, (feel that there's redundancy between these two bullets and this should cover it, alternatively make this "Thanks to Protean and its wide coverage" if you feel that isnt implied strongly enough, or leave out the change entirely if you disagree) Greninja has a wide movepool that gives it STAB on every move and an option to hit any potential answer, so it can pick and choose its counters based on its team.
* Greninja has a fantastic Speed tier, outrunning threats like Latios, Keldeo, Mega Metagross, and Zygarde-10%.
* Access to Spikes with great coverage makes for a great offensive hazard setter.
* Frailty leaves Greninja susceptible to priority and revenge kills, while also being difficult to switch in.
* This is further worsened by low raw offensive stats that can make it difficult to achieve OHKOs at times even with super effective moves.

[SET]
name: All-out Attacker
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Hydro Pump / Extrasensory
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Electric / Extrasensory
item: Life Orb
ability: Protean
nature: Naive
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Ice Beam is a consistent STAB attack, enabling Greninja to hit the Grass-types and Dragon-types that normally wall Water-types while offering good overall neutral coverage.
* Gunk Shot covers Fairy-types, most notably Tapu Fini, Tapu Lele, Tapu Bulu, and Clefable. It also serves as a physical move with good neutral coverage, often serving as the best option to hit opposing Water-types, such as Mantine, Rotom-W, and Manaphy.
* Hydro Pump is Greninja's highest-Base Power (AH) attack, achieving crucial damage benchmarks on many neutral opponents targets. It also covers Heatran and Tyranitar.
* Extrasensory covers Toxapex, Keldeo, Mega Venusaur, and Buzzwole while dealing good neutral damage to Rotom-W.
* Hidden Power Fire makes Greninja a Ferrothorn lure and effective Mega Scizor check, in addition to OHKOing Genesect and nearly 2HKOing Celesteela.
* With Hidden Power Fire, Extrasensory can potentially replace Hydro Pump to cover Toxapex and generally maximize overall coverage. It is also acceptable to run in place of Hidden Power Fire.
* Hidden Power Electric lets Greninja lures and dispatch Mantine and Gyarados in addition to hitting Water-types in general super effectively.
* Dark Pulse can be run to hit Mega Metagross and Jirachi super effectively, as well as for its great neutral coverage in general.
* Grass Knot is also an option to hit Mega Gyarados and bulky Water-types other than Toxapex and Mantine hard.
* In general, the moveset should be chosen based on what Greninja's teammates want to be lured removed.

Set Details
========

* Full Special Attack investment maximizes Greninja's special attacking capabilities.
* A Naive nature ensures Gunk Shot's strength while making Greninja as fast as possible.
* Greninja's offensive stats aren't that high, so the power boost provided by Life Orb is absolutely necessary.
* Protean is used to give every move an additional punch in a STAB boost.

Usage Tips
========

* Greninja usually should not be switched in directly without a solid prediction or weak resisted move. Smart double switches and VoltTurn are typically the best ways to bring it in.
* It is sometimes worth thinking about how certain Protean types will affect Greninja's success against the Pokemon it is fighting and possible revenge killers.
* Scout for possible Greninja switch-ins and baits in the early game by throwing out a neutral coverage option instead of directly predicting a switch with a lure move.
* After identifying the opponent's choices to switch into Greninja, punish with the appropriate coverage move, if applicable.
* Greninja is at its best when it controls the tempo of a match. Understanding and making proper predictions with it is essential, as it can punch serious holes in this way. Aggressive, properly timed double switches maximize Greninja's effectiveness when it cannot break through a certain threat easily.

Team Options
========

* Sweepers and cleaners as a whole, which both benefit from weakened defensive cores, generally appreciate Greninja. Mega Charizard X, Pheromosa, Mega Scizor, Tapu Koko, and Mega Pinsir are good examples.
* Teammates that want specific opponents foes lured and KOed, such as Toxapex, Ferrothorn, or and Mantine, lured and KOed (assumed these were the foes, was p. ambiguous) appreciate specific options from Greninja. For example, Mega Gyarados wants Ferrothorn and Toxapex eliminated before it can sweep.
* VoltTurn helps Greninja get in through its frailty, making Genesect, Landorus-T, and Tapu Koko great partners.
* Defensive pivots, such as Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, and Rotom-W, help provide switch-ins against typical revenge killers and Pokemon Greninja cannot OHKO. Alola Alolan Marowak is specifically helpful because it counters Pheromosa, Tapu Koko, and Genesect, some of the top choices to revenge kill Greninja.

[SET]
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Electric / Gunk Shot
move 4: Hydro Pump
item: Life Orb
ability: Protean
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Moves
========

* Greninja is the only viable offensive Spikes user.
* Spikes punish the many switches that Greninja forces without requiring the right coverage move and put significant pressure on defensive cores.
* Spikes make Greninja more versatile, (AC) as it can actually give defensive teams trouble with them.
* Greninja has options to cover common forms of entry hazard control.
* Ice Beam is Greninja's quintessential (technically not incorrect I think but the nuance is really weird since I have some trouble telling what's so "ultimate" about it, wouldn't "best" or "mandatory" work fine too?) STAB move, boasting the best overall neutral coverage and threatening certain Defog users, including Latios, Mandibuzz, and Zapdos.
* Hidden Power Electric covers Mantine and Tapu Fini, two important Defog users, while nearly OHKOing Skarmory and covering other Water-types decently.
* Gunk Shot can pressure Mantine and destroys Tapu Fini. It also hits other Fairies Fairy-types and provides good general neutral coverage.
* Hydro Pump is the strongest move Greninja has against neutral targets. In terms of covering hazard removers, it usually 2HKOes standard Mega Sableye and Mega Scizor.

Set Details
========

* Full Special Attack and Speed investment maximize maximizes Greninja's offensive capabilities and make makes the most of its fantastic Speed tier.
* If running Gunk Shot, be sure to run a Naive nature and 4 EVs in Attack.
* Greninja's offensive stats aren't that high, so the power boost provided by Life Orb is absolutely necessary.
* Protean is used to give every move an additional punch in a STAB boost.

Usage Tips
========

* Use Spikes aggressively on the switches Greninja forces.
* Spikes should primarily be used when the opponent has a good defensive answer to Greninja. In other scenarios, especially in fast-paced matches against offensive teams, it may be suboptimal to use Spikes.
* Adjust your play with this set when facing offensive and defensive teams.
* Other than the addition of Spikes, Greninja should be played as normal, making the most of its coverage and pressuring with its attacks.

Team Options
========

* Use this set on very offensive teams, as offensive pressure to prevent Greninja's entry hazards from being removed is crucial. Try to avoid using Pokemon that are bait for common Defog users or have a way to play around them effectively, such as Swords Dance Mega Scizor to set up on Latios.
* It's probably not best to pair Spikes Greninja with Pokemon that have heavy Stealth Rock weaknesses because you do not want to require hazard control with this.
* Pokemon to lure or generally cover Ferrothorn, such as Hidden Power Fire Latios and Heatran, fit well with this set.
* Breakers that benefit from hazard pressure like Kyurem-B and Hoopa-U appreciate Spikes Greninja.
* Typical VoltTurn support from the likes of Genesect, Landorus-T, and Tapu Koko to get Greninja in unscathed also applies to this set.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
========

* The neutral coverage of Dark Pulse hitting fat bulky Psychic-types super effectively can be desirable, though its coverage is mostly redundant. (already mentioned in moves of first set)
* A set with maximum Attack investment that has Gunk Shot and Low Kick is usable, but it is generally outclassed by specially oriented Greninja.
* U-turn can be run to provide momentum against defensive threats, especially when combined with trappers.
* Shadow Sneak can be used to mess with Pheromosa and Mega Alakazam if desired and provide a priority move.
* Z-Happy Hour can set up for a sweep by giving a +1 boost to all of Greninja's stats. The issues with this are limited opportunities to set up and limited coverage, but such a set can sweep effectively under the right conditions.

Checks & Counters
========

**Chansey**: Chansey is typically a hard counter to Greninja, though the Spikes set can take advantage of Chansey's passivity by setting up layers of Spikes that wear down Chansey and the rest of its team.

**Water-types**: Water-types resist Greninja's Ice Beam and Hydro Pump, so many can serve as effective answers to it. Suicune and Alomomola are fantastic counters to Greninja that lack Grass Knot. Gyarados and Mega Gyarados can set up on any Greninja that lacks Hidden Power Electric or Grass Knot. Without If Greninja lacks (dangler) Extrasensory, Toxapex is typically a solid counter and Keldeo can check. Other good Water-types to check Greninja include Mantine and Rotom-W, though Mantine is slain by Hidden Power Electric are both are heavily pressured by Gunk Shot. For rain teams, the combination of Pelipper and Kingdra can help check Greninja.

**Steel-types**: Specially defensive Celesteela and Jirachi are fantastic at dealing with Greninja, as is Assault Vest Magearna. Celesteela and Jirachi must be careful of super effective Hidden Powers to some extent, though. Ferrothorn takes hits from non-Hidden Power Fire Greninja effectively and can take advantage of it to set up hazards or use Leech Seed to heal itself. Genesect, Mega Metagross, and Magnezone are all decent checks for offensive teams to use against Greninja. Heatran technically walls any Greninja that lacks Hydro Pump, but that possibility is definitely not worth risking unless Heatran runs Passho Berry.

**Kyurem-B**: Kyurem-B is a very effective check to Greninja, tanking any hit from it fairly decently and responding with a powerful attack to KO.

**Bulky Psychic-types**: Without Dark Pulse, Cresselia is a perfect wall to Greninja without Dark Pulse. Slowbro also walls any Greninja that lacks Dark Pulse, Hidden Power Electric, or Grass Knot. Mew is a somewhat shady counter because it is 2HKOed if Greninja gets a poison with Gunk Shot, but it can work as a secondary answer.

**Mega Venusaur**: Mega Venusaur is decent at handling non-Extrasensory Greninja, serving as a good switch-in without Stealth Rock up and dealing with it very effectively if it has some Special Defense investment.

**Revenge Killers**: Naturally faster Pokemon such as Tapu Koko, Pheromosa, and Mega Alakazam; Choice Scarf users, such as Genesect, Landorus-T, Tapu Lele, Keldeo, and Latios; and priority from the likes of attackers such as Genesect and Bisharp are very helpful for revenge killing Greninja, which can be the best option in many scenarios.
 
Last edited:
Don't mean to nitpick, but Hydro Pump is not Greninja's highest base power attack, Gunk Shot is. Perhaps say that Hydro Pump is the highest BP special attack?
 

Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
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You mention Dark Pulse in both the moves section of the first set and in OO, I think it fits fine in either but it doesn't really need to be in both, really nice analysis otherwise!
 

Colonel M

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Before the analysis is uploaded I would like a second opinion from Quality Control.

Earlier in the chat I brought up about Spikes Greninja. In particular - I have been commonly running Spikes / Gunk Shot / Low Kick / Ice Beam on mine with max Attack. I know others have also done this and I have had Gary voice in agreement of it. At first I was going to say that maybe the set could be re-arranged, but:
Gary - Today at 7:53 PM
I think it should be the spike set
because what does the other one offer better than this one
Colonel M - Today at 7:53 PM
The major thing is tackling the other Defog users but
Gary - Today at 7:54 PM
I mean
Colonel M - Today at 7:54 PM
The primary one is Fini
Gary - Today at 7:54 PM
u tackle fini
Colonel M - Today at 7:54 PM
Zapdos crapped by Ice Beam
Gary - Today at 7:54 PM
latios is bad defogger
is slaughtered by gunk
mantine
Colonel M - Today at 7:54 PM
Which leaves like Skarm
and...
...Mega Scizor...
...
(I don't count it)
I'll post about it
Gary - Today at 7:55 PM
yeah so it's basically just skarm
Colonel M - Today at 7:55 PM
I really think it's a great set
Especially because it still catches some of the other potential switch-ins like AV Mag
by surprise
Gary - Today at 7:55 PM
0 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 173-204 (51.7 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
unless it's SpD skarm

So with Gary's blessing and some discussion, we would like to change the Spikes set to the following:

[SET]
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Gunk Shot
move 4: Low Kick / Hydro Pump
item: Life Orb
ability: Protean
nature: Naive
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

- Low Kick can 2HKOes Celesteela and 3HKOes AV Magearna - also get more consistent 2HKOes with Gunk Shot (Rotom-W).
- Set Details should include max SpA - this is for Hydro Pump mostly, but I guess is an okay option with the set in general.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
I dont like that set, personally. Merely by the fact that it gets crapped on by sableye, and one of spikes ninjas best merits is being a great fast life orb attacker that terrorizes balance and offense, with still good anti stall capabilities. Also metagross has a way better match up against it than it should.
 

Gary

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Okay to compromise we are just going to make the set this.

[SET]
name: Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Gunk Shot
move 4: Hydro Pump / Low Kick
item: Life Orb
ability: Protean
nature: Naive
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Speed

With max attack in set details if running Low Kick. Sableye can still easily stall out Gren 1v1 and Hydro's shaky accuracy only makes it that much more difficult. I wouldn't say that this set still lets you set up Spikes vs stall teams, but it's just a bit better at pressuring Sableye I guess. I still think Spikes Gren's niche isn't really meant to focus on anti stall capabilities as opposed to being better vs balance and offense, because rarely anything is going to really be successfully spiking vs stall. Anyway, I think this is the best solution.
 

Jukain

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for the sake of transparency, this was updated yesterday to reflect gary's sets and some other things qc discussed (slight adjustments with the first set and psychium z in oo)

this is actually good to go
 

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