Griefing

[Darkflagrance]

It seems rather paradoxical to maintain societies in which it is acceptable to act in such a way that one has a good chance of causing frustation and pain in another individual.

I am rather indifferent to griefing personally. I simply question the assumed social norms that you posit in with regards to the internet.

Finally, one cannot assert that disrupting a video game is harmless if there are individuals who say they have been harmed as a result. One can only measure things such as mental injury based on the testimony of another person, and one cannot simply deny them a priori.

 

[Hocotate]

Skipping over the mental health stuff, it seems stupid to maintain that anything done that does not harm people 'in real life' is acceptable, no matter the feelings hurt or inconvenience caused.

Hey, let's hack Smogon, guys! Let's 'disrupt an online video game'!

 

[AltCtrlPwn]

Never said it was acceptable, more like "what's the big fucking deal? get over it."

I'll leave it at that, you guys can whine some more if you want.

"Finally, one cannot assert that disrupting a video game is harmless if there are individuals who say they have been harmed as a result. One can only measure things such as mental injury based on the testimony of another person, and one cannot simply deny them a priori."

Like I said, if you can't handle morons on the internet, maybe you shouldn't be on it in the first place.

 

[gorm]

don't be immature lol. if you tell someone who thinks it's a big deal that it's not a big deal, you're not arguing/discussing, you're saying "youre wrong fuck off"

not that i think it's a big deal at all. almost all videogames are played as a passtime and are really "nonessential" base brain stimulation. people like videogames because the framework of the universes they lie within is concrete/fully defined and is made to be "learned of and adapted to", processes that a good deal of us 'left brain people" like. Their stimulus lies in the satisfactory responses they give you based on relatively "effortlessless" inputs (finger movements). sure there's complex math/good planning/creativity involved in starcraft but that just takes practice.
on a whole they are usually just a diversion, something you can be good at given not alot of time invested (or a ton of time invested for wow but rpgs/level up games in general are even worse)

pvp is always a more worthwhile aspect of a game since it's satisfying to pit your skills against another... but they're still mostly distractions and when one person disrupts that interaction for the sake of disruption and you get so riled you make a thread about it it's time you reconsidered your priorities.

as far as trolling goes, it's just anohter pvp game. your stupid remarks inputted correctly produce ~satisfying frustrated people~.
as for why they find other's frustrations satisfying, it's just a "im better than you and you arent worth taking seriously" which is a pretty immature attitude to have, i guess it's the internet though

the internet in general bothers me because it's extremely impersonal and you are, to an extent, communicating with a bunch of people you cannot see/know so interactions are often just superfluous, but it's also easier to open up to people since they have no bearing on your real life
stupid internet.

 

[jagged_angel]

stupid internet.

Sort of sums up this whole thread.

 

[Wishy]

Well, a mental injury is still an injury, and can result in physiological injuries, as we know from the example of the girl who committed suicide after being told her beloved boyfriend was a construct of the malicious next-door-neighbours's daughter's vindictive mother, or some such.

You can tell people not to be hurt from what evil people do, to deal with it maturely. But at the same time, it does not justify evil acts.

That is extremely different. That story was about a girl with low self-esteem being taken advantage of and having people toy with her emotions, while this is just 'baahhh this guy is abusing a glitch in my online game'. People abusing glitches for fun and you being annoyed is not that same as people is different than people reaching in and screwing with your emotions.

The point I'm trying to make is that I take precious time out of my day to play video games online, and the mere thought that someone believes they are worth enough to rob me of what little free time I have in the day by doing this sort of shit is disgusting. It makes me weep for the state of mankind. Even though it's anonymous, people need to realize that what they do online is happening to actual people, not just lines of data.

You did not just say any of that. :/
Ok, listen. I understand people take gaming to some degree of seriousness, but what you are doing is just over the top. Frankly, there are much more important to things to 'weep for the state of mankind' over than a bunch of kiddies abusing glitches. It might envoke some anger but ask yourself, 'does it really matter?'. Seriously, when you seem to be on the brink of crying and protesting over some online glitch abusers you really do need to get your prespective on life fixed.

 

[monkfish]

for once i entirely agree with ck (!)

 

[Synre]

I've been on both of ends of this to some degree, but I think in kind of growing up with MMOs, where this type of shit happens kind of a lot I mostly agree with something a leader of a guild I used to be in apparently said once...

"It's ok! It's just the internet!" is just something douchebags tell themselves to make themselves feel better about being douchebags.

As I think that's pretty much hitting the nail on the head. I don't "start shit" very often but I'll definitely "end it" in a way that's a bit more agonizing for the other side than completely necessary, but I there's some pretty clear "fair play" rules in those games that I think more people should be following... no one is ever going to want it to truly be "fair" since everyone is looking for an edge, but there's really a line that shouldn't be crossed and anything that's ridiculous enough to end up on youtube tends to be way on the wrong side of it.

 

[obi]

Jesus you've led a sheltered life haven't you? By "get some perspective" I mean that someone annoying you in an online game is not the end of the world. It's not even more than a slight annoyance. If all you're going to do is whine about it then why bother? What does this whining accomplish? Get over it. Move on. Get a hobby that doesn't rely on people being civil over the internet.

So you'd be OK with me banning you from Smogon? I mean, it's just an online forum. Would you be OK if I broke into your house and just kind of sat on your couch all day? I'm not really hurting you, why would you care? Maybe I should egg your house? Spit in your food? Steal your stuff? Where do you draw the line?

All this is is someone deciding that the best way for them to have fun is to ruin the enjoyment of other people. Just because it's over the internet doesn't mean it's not wrong.

That does not make it an entirely wrong way to think; immaturity and malice are both very natural human feelings! Furthermore, plenty of people engage in cruel acts because it is funny to them, despite the fact it will hurt others. It is terrible if this extends to real life, meaningful occurrences, but not in a video game. If you are paying money, then you have to keep in mind that these other people are probably also playing money (I am not knowledgeable about ways to avoid paying for online games that cost money, though).

Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's acceptable. Rape, murder, and theft are all natural occurrences. Prejudice toward those who are different exists in all societies, but we don't advocate that. "It's natural" is never a defense for stupidity and malice.

 

[CaptKirby]

It does not make it wrong either. Morality is decided by who has the authority. As you said, it is probably not in the best interest of the most people, unless it is just a gigantic trollfest (like 4chan), so the authority will mandate it is wrong and ban the activity when it occurs. What is right and wrong is often merely decided by some mixture of the very few 'elite' in charge in any place plus the majority needs or desires of the people of that community. In this instance, smogon operators can ban people, arbitrarily if they want, and even might get away with it even if people complain. That is all that being right or wrong is in a public sense! Everyone may, of course, develop their own private morality in full.

 

[obi]

Then what's the point of you posting in this thread? If the thread were about murdering people because of their race, would you still be saying "Hey, everyone has their own sense of morality! This kind of behavior is natural."

I wasn't saying that it's wrong because it's natural, that would be just as foolish as saying it's right because it's natural. I'm saying it's wrong because it has as its sole purpose harming another person.

You're conflating what people do and what people ought to do.

 

[monkfish]

So you'd be OK with me banning you from Smogon? I mean, it's just an online forum. Would you be OK if I broke into your house and just kind of sat on your couch all day? I'm not really hurting you, why would you care? Maybe I should egg your house? Spit in your food? Steal your stuff? Where do you draw the line?

All this is is someone deciding that the best way for them to have fun is to ruin the enjoyment of other people. Just because it's over the internet doesn't mean it's not wrong.

lol i really wouldn't get all that upset about being banned from an online forum, nor an online game. i "draw the line" at breaking and entering which is an illegal violation of my civil rights. that kind of comparison is ridiculous.

here's something you can compare it to: lets say im playing a game of football with my mates and someone steals the ball. except i have infinite footballs, im free to go and start another game of football whenever i want, and my friends are welcome to join me and we can lock out anyone we dont want there. thats basically the equivalent. so like i said before, perspective.

 

[obi]

In most games, griefing is a violation of the terms of service, and is thus illegal under contract law.