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Grumpy Old Men (a Sun Team)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by cosmicfinch, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. cosmicfinch

    cosmicfinch

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    I decided to build a team around two of my favourite pokemon. Heatran and Venusaur, when I look at them I can't help but see just how much they look like Grumpy Old Men, which happens to be one of my favourite films. So I built the entire team around that.
    I got it up to 1300 on the ladder the other day, and I would love to improve it with the help of you guys.

    GRUMPY OLD MEN

    [​IMG]


    Starting off with the grumpiest old man.
    [​IMG]
    Walttran Matthau (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Magma Storm
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam
    - Roar
    I tried a few different heatran to get to this one. I used to run Victini, than I discovered the brilliance that is Magma Storm. In the sun it ko's almost anything that doesn't resist it, and it traps them and acts as WOW. His main job turned into a strangely effective lead against rain teams. They would lead with Forretress or Ferro, see tran and switch to Poli. I would use magma storm, trap poli, sunny day, hydro pump does 25% damage heatran used leftovers, laugh at poli, and kill with solar beam. Winning the weather war almost immediately. On non rain teams, he acts as a weather insurance policy, and checks everything steel. Trying out Roar to have a Phasing element. This set counters Jellicent also, who is a common switch in, they can only recover once.

    Enter the next grumpy old man.
    [​IMG]
    Don Lemmon (Donphan) @ Leftovers
    Impish | 252 HP, 152 Def, 104 Atk | Sturdy
    ~Earthquake
    ~Rapid Spin
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~Ice Shard

    Trying a switch as suggested by King Of Blades. He really does add a lot to the team. Stealth Rock was something I was trying to avoid on the team, and focus on speed and power. But this guy helps huge with dragons and terrakion. I added 104 strength ev's to ensure a 2hko of salamence, as an uninvested ice shard does 48-51% damage. I was originally at 48 attack ev's but now I can cleanly ohko terrakion with eq even without rocks up, which is great when I sense a lead out with him.
    Rapid spin really helps ninetales and mence to stay alive.

    What are two Grumpy old men without some ladies to fight out? So here are the ladies.
    [​IMG]
    Sophia Lorentales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 144 SDef / 112 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Sunny Day
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - SolarBeam
    - Flamethrower
    Aaaaah, Sophia Loren, the sexiest old lady of all time. And the life blood of this team. She simply must stay alive, so has max hp and a good amount of special defense. She can pass on a burn to survive and cripple T-Tar. Sunny Day really pisses Politoed and T-Tar on the switch ins, and neither of them appreciates a sunny day Solar Beam. If a team lacks weather, or a weather changer(Tornadus) I am prone to sacrificing her early to cripple a key foe on the other team.
    [​IMG]
    Lilliganne Margret (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Quiver Dance
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Giga Drain
    Sophia Lorentales faces some stiff competition in the sexy old lady department from Lilliganne Margeret, but the two of them together are capable of wooing even the grumpiest of old men, and often the occasional young man. This beauty absolutely destroys rain teams, even outside of the sun after 2 quiver dances, not much outside of Scizor and Jirachi can stand up to her. The EVs are set up to outpseed choice scarfed Latios in the sun without any quiver dances. With life orb and 1 quiver dance, hp ice ohko Dnite without rocks and with multiscale, it also takes out mence who has a yache berry. This girl packs a serious punch.

    Next is the supporting cast.
    [​IMG]
    Salamence (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Fang

    This guy in my mind benefited more than anyone else from dream world. MoxieMence is a beast! And he resists a lot of important things(Fire,Ground,fighting, and Flying, that wreak havoc on this team) I went with jolly nature to ohko scarfed Genesect on the switch in with fire fang. I opted out of Outrage, cause after a DD and a kill, why risk getting confused? Nothing resists everything he can throw at it, so it's not worth being scarfed or locked into outrage in my opinion. I'm starting to think in this meta-game, this guy is among the new broken pokes. Even with Garchomps return, I wouldn't even ponder switching him out.
    [​IMG]
    Raikou @ Choice Scarf Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
    - Aura Sphere
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Weather Ball
    I started with Genesect didn't like it. Than tried Rotom-W, kinda liked it. I switched out Rotom-W for this guy, as I found he really wasn't bringing enough to the table.
    This guy functions amazingly in any weather, and despite his rap of being a poke with poor coverage, toss in weather ball and a hidden power, and he can be a potent late game sweeper and a great scouter. I can't believe I'm not seeing more of this guy on weather teams, as weather ball in sun and rain hits at 150 power. With Rocks up he ohko's T-Tar. Takes out the Genies with HP Ice. Destroys Genesect with Weather Ball. Kills Mamoswine with weather ball as well.
  2. King of Blades

    King of Blades

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Hello.

    Upon first glance at this team, I notice three things. One: you have no rapid spinner. Two: you have a weakness to scarf terrakion, assuming the other team can stop your weather. As scarfrakion is commonly seen on sand teams as a revenge killer, the opponent shouldn't have much trouble changing the weather. Three: you have no stealth rock, which is an imperative to have to demolish rival sun teams. These three problems can easily be solved by replacing either lilligant or venusaur (I would personally suggest replacing venusaur) with something even grumpier than venusaur: Donphan.

    [​IMG]
    Don Lemmon (Donphan) @ Leftovers
    Impish | 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk | Sturdy
    ~Earthquake
    ~Roar
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~Ice Shard

    Well, if you could get much more grumpy than venusaur, this is it. Don Lemmon and Sophia complement each other perfectly, just like in the movie. (Yes, I've seen it too, it's amazing.) Lemmon is very protective of his wife, spinning as fast as possible in order to get rid of any hazards that endanger her. He isn't a pushover himself, as he is capable of standing up to things such as rock monsters (terrakion), dinosaurs that don't know how to shoot ice at him (tyranitar without ice beam), and giant dragons locked into shocking moves by choice (Kyurem-W locked into fusion bolt). He learned how to use his native minnesota's ice to his advantage, as he is now capable of flash-freezing his breath and throwing it at people in the form of ice shard, which is good for revenge killing dragonite and salamence. He can also summon a mighty earthquake to destroy everything. He can spin away hazards that would endanger his wife as well as setting up hazards of his own. All references aside, donphan can sponge many physical attackers and either spin away hazards, set up stealth rock in their faces, or just hit them hard with earthquake.

    Now, you also have a weakness to scarf kyurem-w. Kyurem-w can hit all of your team hard except heatran with a draco meteor, and heatran can be hit hard on the switch with a focus blast if his switch is predicted. There is arguably no true counter to kyurem-w, so the easiest way to fix that is to change salamence's set into a scarf set and replace dragon dance with outrage. This fixes your weakness to kyurem-w, as you can threaten it with a revenge kill by mence. If it forces the switch, he gets impaled on the stealth rocks that you have set up with your donphan.

    Now, your rotom-w also has choice scarf, meaning it needs a new set. I know an easy way to fix this. I would suggest replacing trick with rest, replacing choice scarf with chesto berry, and changing his evs to 252 HP, 252 Sp. Def. This allows you to have a reliable sponge against the myriad of special hits that will come from rain teams, such as tornadus-t and thundurus-t and specs politoed. Rest allows a one-time recovery back to full health. If this seems rather annoying, that's because it is. This is especially annoying to rain teams. It also has a surprise factor to it, as chestorest rotom is almost never seen any more.

    Another little thing is that you should change ninetales's item to shed shell. It will help you win the weather war against other weather teams more easily so they don't trap you with dugtrio.

    Hope this helps!
  3. cosmicfinch

    cosmicfinch

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    thanks for the rate sir!
    I like how you stayed within the theme :D Donphan really fits in well since i've tried I got the team up to 1300 with the above changes. I really miss venusaur, but rocks and priority ice really helps. Not sure about chestoresto rotom still, but i'm going to give it a go :D
  4. cosmicfinch

    cosmicfinch

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    Here's the new version of the team. Got it over 1300 now on 3 different ladders, and i'm hoping some fresh eyes can help it get a bit better :D
  5. Asek

    Asek A heart of stone, a smoking gun
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    575
    Hi

    Cool team. Looking at it, I thought opposing chlorophyll sweepers such as Venusaur were easily the biggest threat to your team, especially if in venusaur's case it carries Earthquake to dispose of nintales and heatran. Mamoswine also looks fairly problematic, as it can deal huge amounts of damage to all of your team and can revenge kill both of your sweepers. As KoB said, terrakion can also be difficult for you to handle, as you don't have a safe switch in for it.

    First off, I think KoB made a small error in his rate. You should be using Rapid Spin > Roar (I think he got confused) as this is what your team really needs. Rapid Spin support to help your SR weak weather starter as well as your sweeper salamence. Considering tales will have to switch in a bit it definitely loves rapid spin support that donphan can provide, and rapid spin lets rotom-w volt-switch more, and can free your team of its weakness to spike stacking as well, granted you can get the spin blocker on the other team out of the way. On the subject of donphan, I would bump your attack up just a little bit. 252HP/ 80Atk/ 168Def gives you enough attack to get the guaranteed 2HKO on landorus-I w/o SR on the field, and also gives your earthquake a nice kick in the guts.

    Salamence really wants Fire Blast > Fire Fang with a naive nature. Fire Blast muscles through the physical walls that generally give salamence problems, such as gliscor and it allows you to get a guranteed OHKO on skarmory now. Fire Fang has really pitiful power and the targets it hits will be hit harder by fire blast most of the time anyway. Also I would use Earth Power > Earthquake and Air Baloon > Leftovers on heatran. Air Balloon lets you take on non superpower mamoswine and scarf landrus once and possibly KO them, while Earth Power does greater damage than earthquake coming off heatrans naturally higher and invested attacking stat.

    Now, I agree that the rotom-w set should be changed. I thought that to retain a good way to counter rain teams and beat down a lot of common threats, using Specially Defensive Rotom-W > Scarf Rotom-W would be a great fit for your team. With its great typing that can take the common attacks found on rain teams, you should have no problems taking them on. Rotom-W can wall the majority of specially orientated sweepers within the tier and cripple them with thunder wave, allowing you to avoid potentially dangerous set up sweepers as well. Pain Split is another cool move, and sapping the health off of opposing weather inducers can help win weather wars. You can still pick up momentum with volt switch, and HP [FIRE] still lets you beat ferrothorn. This set handily beats mamoswine as well, and can cripple terrakion with thunder wave if it tries to switch in

    GL with the team
    Specially Defensive Rotom (open)
    Rotom-W @ leftovers
    Nature: Calm (+SpD -Atk)
    Trait: Levitate
    EV's: 248HP/ 28SpA/ 232SpD
    Pain Split/ Thunder Wave/ HP [FIRE] / Volt switch
  6. King of Blades

    King of Blades

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Thanks for pointing that out, Asek. Rapid Spin can replace either roar or ice shard in my set. Also, I was referring to kyurem-b, and not kyurem-w.
  7. cosmicfinch

    cosmicfinch

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    Thanks very much for the rate Asek.
    I did have rapid spin on the Donphan set, but for now I switched it to roar as I've been seeing a lot of bp teams these days. I agree rapid spin does seem a better option for him, and I may add roar onto heatran to deal with BP.
    Also agree with more power, I cant believe how little it does to Gliscor, and Landorus as well, so i'm definitely bumping that up.
    I agree with specially defensive rotom set, I keep tweaking it out and struggle finding that balance. Thunder wave sounds amazing.
    As far as the mence switches go, I think that fire blast is cool on him, but after a DD and a kill, fire fang handley kos Skarmory as long as rocks are up, and if I get to +3 I dont feel like missing and being whirlwind out.
    Heatran Im loving having leftovers, in the sun it lets him take out water pokes pretty easily. Especially Jellicent, and Politoed as he shrugs hits off with ease in the sun. Im seriously considering Roar that 4th move slot.
    Thanks for the pointers! Off to try out specially defensive Rotom-W
  8. cosmicfinch

    cosmicfinch

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    I just put Raikou on the team and I think i'm officially done building this team. Got it to 1400 on the ladder, and am going to start work on a new team.
    Thanks for the help and rates guys.
    Cheers.
    But if anyone knows how to make it better, please let me know :D

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