Gen 2 GSC NU Ninetales (Revamp) [DONE]

[gabraltar]

[OVERVIEW]

Ninetales is a Pokemon with massive highs and deep lows. It is one of the best checks to Xatu, Weezing, and Magmar as it outspeeds all three, takes their attacks very well, and deals solid damage, especially to Weezing. Weezing in particular is one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into in the tier, so being one of the most reliable switch-ins to it is an incredible trait to have. Ninetales can 3HKO common offensive threats such as Xatu, Weezing, and Stantler with its STAB Flamethrower while crippling Water-type Pokemon with Sunny Day, or bulkier Pokemon with Toxic. Its amazing Speed lets it revenge kill Xatu and Primeape in a pinch, while also making it very easy to pull off a Rest. Ninetales's Flamethrower means that Pineco cannot take advantage of it while Resting, making it even easier for Ninetales to Rest and making it a solid lead to prevent early Spikes. Ninetales's Ice resistance and Electric neutrality also means that it stonewalls the likes of Magnenite, Dragonair, and BoltBeam Porygon, making it one of the best specially defensive Pokemon in the metagame.

However, while Ninetales is amazing against many of the tier's top threats, it's horrible against another: Octillery. Unlike other Pokemon weak to Water such as Graveler, Sudowoodo, Pupitar, Flareon, and even Rapidash, Ninetales struggles to deal any sort of immediate damage to Octillery, giving it free turns. Octillery is one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier, and thudding against it is not an easy flaw to compensate for in the teambuilder. Ninetales is also easily revenge killed by Dugtrio, and is threatened greatly by Rock-types like Graveler as well. Ninetales also gives free switch-ins to Fire-types like Rapidash and Flareon, the latter of which is an especially bad threat to give free turns to, thanks to its wallbreaking and Baton Pass capabilities. While Ninetales is threatening to frailer targets, it struggles to threaten other bulky RestTalk Pokemon like Wigglytuff, Hitmonlee, and Dewgong. Ninetales also faces competition from the aforementioned Fire-types: Rapidash and RestTalk Flareon, which can threaten Octillery with their much stronger Double-Edge, with the latter even 3HKOing it. Rapidash is also fast enough to outrun and revenge kill Fearow.


[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Sunny Day / Toxic / Reflect
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Flamethrower is its main STAB move and is used over Fire Blast for the extra PP and perfect accuracy. Since Ninetales is primarly a defensive Pokemon, it values reliability more than power. Rest consistently keeps it healthy to check Xatu and Weezing, while Sleep Talk prevents it from letting in dangerous threats in for free while sleeping. The last move gives Ninetales more utility. Sunny Day severely weakens Octillery and Chinchou, allowing the likes of Pineco to set up Spikes on them or enabling Pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff to duel with it safely. Sunny Day also allows Ninetales to win the one-on-one against Dewgong instead of losing to it, neuters Thunder accuracy from the likes of Weezing, Primeape, and Chinchou; turns a 3HKO from Flamethrower against various Pokemon like Xatu, Fearow, and Stantler into a 2HKO; and lets it 3HKO Wigglytuff, which would otherwise set up Curse on it. Toxic can be used to force a Rest from Pokemon like Octillery, Dewgong, Flareon, and Rapidash, while completely ruining Porygon, Curse Light Screen Stantler, Dugtrio, Kingler, and Rock-types. Reflect lets Ninetales punish Pokemon like Dugtrio and Rock-types for switching in while also letting its team switch in more safely against many Pokemon, such as Fearow, Kingler, Stantler, and Wigglytuff.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that take advantage of Octillery are imperative to Ninetales's success. Grass-types like Gloom, Exeggcute, and Bayleef handle Hidden Power Electric variants of Octillery and Dugtrio, while appreciating Ninetales's ability to check Xatu and Weezing. The Grass-types especially enjoy Reflect from Ninetales, as it temporarily neuters threats they let in for free, such as Fearow, Stantler, and Wigglytuff. Octillery itself, when equipped with Hidden Power Electric, takes care of Ice Beam variants of Octillery, Rapidash, and Flareon, while appreciating Ninetales's ability to take care of Grass-types. Chinchou is the best punisher of Octillery, which also appreciates Reflect Ninetales keeping it safe against Dugtrio. Pokemon that check Dugtrio like Dewgong are required for Ninetales as well. Dewgong also appreciates Ninetales using Toxic on Curse + Light Screen Stantler, a Pokemon that takes advantage of Dewgong very well. Pokemon that struggle with Weezing such as Primeape, Hitmonlee, and the aforementioned Grass-types appreciate Ninetales's defensive services. If using Sunny Day, Pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff are great partners. Both can take advantage of Octillery in sun but struggle to do so outside of sun. Wigglytuff also answers Chinchou, which is another major threat to Ninetales. Rock-types can be used to deal with the Fire-types that Ninetales lets in for free. Graveler spins away spikes, making it easier for Ninetales to stay healthy. Sudowoodo and Pupitar appreciate sun, as it lets both survive a Surf from Octillery. Sudowoodo and Pupitar are also decent checks to RestTalk Flareon and Rapidash, which wall Ninetales.

[SET]
name: Roar
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Toxic / Sunny Day
move 3: Roar
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Roar gives Ninetales unique offensive and defensive utility. On the offensive side, it lets Ninetales rack up Spikes damage on its checks, especially Octillery. Ninetales is an especially good user of Roar given its great matchup against the most common Spikes-immune pokemon in the tier: Xatu. On the defensive side, Roar lets Ninetales act as an emergency stop to dangerous setup sweepers, like Growth Pass Flareon and Curse Wigglytuff. Roar Ninetales is notably the best way of stopping Growth Pass Flareon, as it is the only decent Pokemon that can fit Roar on its set, and it isn't threatened by a +1 Fire Blast at all. Roar's main downside is not being able to be used with Sleep Talk, as Roar will fail if called by Sleep Talk. This makes this set more vulnerable to giving free turns to dangerous Pokemon like Dugtrio, makes Ninetales more vulnerable by status, and makes it a worse check to Xatu and Weezing. Rest keeps Ninetales healthy, while Toxic lets Ninetales shut down Curse Porygon and Rock-types like Graveler, which do not use Rest. Toxic pairs especially well with Roar because if a poisoned Pokemon switches in as Ninetales uses Roar, it will take poison damage and not get Leftovers recovery as it gets phazed. Sunny Day is an option over Toxic Roar in the face of Octillery and be much more threatening to Pokemon like Wigglytuff, but Toxic's interactions with Roar make it the generally preferred option.

Team Options
========

Pineco is a mandatory teammate on this set, as it makes Ninetales's Roar a threatening offensive weapon. Passive Pokemon that are vulnerable to being set up on such as Dewgong and Gloom appreciate Ninetales's ability to stop setup sweepers. Late-game cleaners such as Xatu, Fearow, and Curse Stantler also appreciate its ability to wear down the opposing team with Roar in combination with Spikes. Octillery and Dugtrio checks are extremely important as well: Chinchou and Gloom help against the former, Dewgong helps against the latter, and pure Grass-types like Exeggcute helps against both. Octillery itself help against both while being more able to break holes in teams thanks to Ninetales racking up Spikes damage with Roar. Octillery also appreciates Ninetales taking advantage of the Grass-types that wall its Hidden Power Electric set. Dugtrio also keeps up the offensive pressure that this set demands.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hidden Power Grass is Ninetales's strongest move to hit Octillery with, but it's still not that strong, gives it worse DVs, and gives it worse Sleep Talk rolls against Xatu. Hidden Power Electric rectifies the Xatu issue and has better DVs, but it's completely useless against Rock-types. Both Hidden Power options are also generally outclassed by the utility Sunny Day provides.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Water-types**: Octillery, Dewgong, and Chinchou consistently switch into Ninetales with minimal damage and turn it into an opportunity to fire off their dangerous attacks. However, Dewgong is directly beaten by Ninetales under sun, Chinchou is severely hampered by Surf being weakened and Thunder's accuracy being lowered, and Octillery's Surf is significantly weakened.

**Dugtrio**: Dugtrio outspeeds Ninetales and can revenge kill it if it is weakened. However, it does not enjoy switching into Flamethrower and is ruined by Toxic.

**Rock-types**: Graveler, Sudowoodo, and Pupitar all takes Ninetales's Flamethrower easily and hit back hard with their STAB attacks. However, they all hate Toxic and the rarer Hidden Power Grass.

**Rapidash and Flareon**: RestTalk Rapidash and RestTalk Flareon endlessly wall Ninetales while not being walled back thanks to their access to Double-Edge. Both can even take advantage of Ninetales's own sun. Growth pass Flareon can also use Ninetales as an opportunity to pass Growths provided it doesn't have Roar.

**Wigglytuff**: Wigglytuff easily shrugs off Ninetales's unboosted Flamethrowers and Toxics and can boost through Reflect with Curse. However, it's cleanly 3HKOed in sun.

[CREDITS]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gabraltar.573149/
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/beeorsomething.583728/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/mrsoup.375193/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/adorluigi.528364/
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/autumn.384270/

 

[BeeOrSomething]

Sorry if I'm asking a bit much, but before I qc this I think you should add a set for Toxic Roar considering as it is currently on the reservation index. The set consists of Flamethrower/Toxic/Roar/Rest. It's probably also quite awkward to try and fit in but I would at the least mention RestTalk Rapidash and RestTalk Flareon in the checks/counters section, seeing as both can sit on Ninetales all day and the former can repeatedly fish for crits with Double-Edge while the latter just flat out 3HKOes Ninetales with Double-Edge.

 

[BeeOrSomething]

View attachment 528588
[OVERVIEW]

Ninetales is a pokemon with massive highs and deep lows. It is one of the best checks to both Xatu and Weezing, Also Magmar as it outspeeds both, takes their attacks very well, and deals solid damage to both, especially Weezing. Weezing in particular is one of the hardest pokemon to switch into in the tier, so being one of the most reliable switch ins to it is an incredible trait to have. Its amazing speed lets it revenge kill Xatu and Primeape in a pinch, while also making it very easy to pull off a rest. Ninetales' fire STAB means that Pineco cannot take advantage of it while resting, making it even easier for it to Rest. Ninetales' ice resist and electric neutrality also means that it stonewalls the likes of bolt-beam Porygon and Magnemite. Ninetales is also on paper difficult to switch into for most non-Waters because of Toxic or the threat of being 3HKOed by Flamethrower

However, while Ninetales is amazing against two of the top threats, it's horrible against another top threat: Octillery. Unlike other pokemon weak to water such as Graveler, Sudowoodo, Pupitar, Flareon, and even Rapidash, it is extremely bad at dealing any sort of immediate damage to it, meaning that it gives almost completely free opportunities to it. Octillery is one of the most dangerous pokemon in the tier and thudding against it is not an easy flaw to compensate for in the teambuilder. Ninetales is also easily revenge killed by Dugtrio, another top threat in the tier. Also threatened out by all the Rocks Ninetales is not very strong as well, meaning that it can give setup opportunities to the likes of Curse Wigglytuff. All of these factors mean that, despite its amazing defensive utility, it is overall difficult to fit Ninetales on a team. Mention that Rapidash gives competition because it's actually faster than Fearow, Fire Blast is much stronger than Tales' Flamethrower, and can at least somewhat damage Octillery unlike Ninetales.


[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Rest Toxic / Sunny Day
move 3: Sleep Talk Rest
move 4: Toxic/Sunny Day Sleep Talk (reordering moves for smogdex consistency)
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Flamethrower is its main STAB and is used over Fire Blast for the extra pp and perfect accuracy. Since , since Ninetales is primarly a defensive pokemon, Fire Blast's pp count is too low to make use of effectively and values reliability more than power. Rest and Sleep Talk ensure it can stay alive to check Xatu and Weezing. Reword to something like "Rest keeps it alive to check threats like Xatu, Weezing, and Magmar long-term, while Sleep Talk prevents Ninetales from giving entry to dangerous threats while sleeping." The last moveslot is to somewhat limit Octillery. Not necessarily true - Toxic limits a lot like Stantler, Primeape, Duggy, the Rocks, Porygon, Kingler, etc, while Sunny Day sure limits the Waters but also makes Ninetales capable of 2HKOing a lot more threats like Fearow; while you aren't really wrong with this point, I think it's a bit too tunnel vision-y and the moves do much more than just annoy Octillery. Toxic can be used to force a Rest from it while completely ruining Curse Porygon not needed, all variants of Porygon are ruined by Toxic, Curse Light Screen Stantler, and rock types. Said already but also Dugtrio and Kingler. Also something to note is that all Toxic-immune Pokemon like Weezing, Gloom, Magnemite are severely threatened/walled by Ninetales so nothing can take it without being pressured to use Rest. Sunny Day severely weakens Octillery, allowing the likes of Pineco to get spikes on it or pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff to duel with it safely. Sunny Day also turns Dewgong from a counter to hard losing to Ninetales, as well as really annoying Chinchou with weakened Surf and lower accuracy Thunder, and again said already but also turning 3/4HKOes from Flamethrower on stuff like Fearow and Wigglytuff into seriously threatening them.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that take advantage of Octillery are imperative to Ninetales' success. Grass types like Gloom, Exeggcute and Bayleef handle Hidden Power Electric variants of Octillery and assisting with Dugtrio in Bayleef's and Exeggcute's case, while appreciating Ninetales' ability to check Xatu and Weezing. Your own Hidden Power Electric Octillery itself when equipped with Hidden Power Electric takes care of Ice Beam variants of Octillery while appreciating Ninetales' ability to take care of grass types. Chinchou is the hardest punisher of Octillery in the tier, making it a solid partner for Ninetales as well. Pokemon that check Dugtrio like Dewgong is required for Ninetales as well. Dewgong also appreciates Ninetales using Toxic on Curse Light Screen Stantler, a pokemon that takes advantage of Dewgong very well. Pokemon that struggle with Weezing such as Primeape, Hitmonlee, and the aforementioned grass types appreciate Ninetales' defensive services. If using Sunny Day, pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff are great partners. Both can take advantage of Octillery in sun but struggle to do so outside of sun. Wigglytuff also answers Chinchou, another major threat to Ninetales.

[SET]
name: Roar
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Roar
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Roar gives Ninetales unique offensive and defensive utility. On the offensive side, it lets Ninetales rack up Spikes damage on its checks, especially Octillery. Ninetales is an especially good user of Roar given it's great matchup against the most common spikes immune pokemon in the tier: Xatu. On the defensive side, it lets Ninetales emergency stop dangerous setup sweepers in their tracks, like Growth Pass Flareon and Curse Wigglytuff. Ninetales with Roar is by far the best counter to Baton Pass Flareon, Ledian, and Farfetch'd seeing as it is like the only decent pokemon with phazing that can also actually fit it on its moveset. Rest keeps Ninetales healthy while Toxic lets Ninetales shut down Curse Porygon and Stantler, who do not use Rest opposing Pokemon that lack Rest. Toxic pairs especially well with Roar because if a poisoned pokemon switches in as Ninetales uses Roar, it will take poison damage and not get leftovers recovery as it gets phazed out. Sunny Day is an option over Toxic to Roar in the face of Octillery but Toxic's interactions with Roar make it the generally prefered option. Sleep Talk is not used on this set as Roar will fail if called by Sleep Talk. Mention that losing Sleep Talk is a pretty big deal as it makes Ninetales a lot more annoyed by status, has a harder time checking Weezing, and gives entry to threats a lot easier since it can't do anything while sleeping.

Team Options
========

Pineco is a mandatory teammate on this set, as it makes Ninetales' Roar a threatening offensive weapon. Passive pokemon that are vulnerable to being setup on, such as Dewgong and Gloom appreciate Ninetales' ability to stop setup sweepers. Late game cleaners such as Xatu, Fearow, and Curse Stantler appreciate Ninetales' ability to wear down the opposing team with Roar in combination with spikes. Octillery and Dugtrio checks are extremely important as well: Chinchou, and Gloom help against the former, Dewgong helps against the latter, and pure Grass types like Exeggcute helps against both. Octillery itself helps against both while being more able to break holes in teams thanks to Ninetales racking up spikes damage with Roar. Octillery also appreciates Ninetales taking advantage of the grass types that will its Hidden Power Electric set.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Reflect prevents Dugtrio from revenge killing it but it makes it even more helpless against Octillery. Reflect also helps with Stantler, Fearow, and Graveler Hidden Power Electric is its strongest move to hit Octillery with but it's still not that strong, gives it worse DVs, and is completely useless against the rock types. Hidden Power Grass rectifies that issue but gives it far worse Sleep Talk odds against Xatu. Both Hidden Power options also prevent it from stopping Curse Stantler with Toxic.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Water types**: Octillery and Chinchou switch into Ninetales all day and turn it into an opportunity to fire off their dangerous attacks. Dewgong is slightly worse against it due to its lack of a fire resist and weaker special attack but it still gets the job done. None of these pokemon enjoy Ninetales setting up Sunny Day, however.

**Dugtrio**: Dugtrio outspeeds Ninetales and revenge kills a weakened Ninetales. However, it does not enjoy switching into Flamethrower and is ruined by Toxic

**Rock types**: Graveler, Sudowoodo, and Pupitar all takes its Flamethrower easily and smacks it hard with their STAB attacks. However, they all hate Toxic.

**Fire types**: Rapidash and Rest Talk Flareon endlessly wall Ninetales while not being walled back thanks to Double-Edge. Both can even take advantage of Ninetales' own sun. Growth Pass Flareon can also use Ninetales as an opportunity to pass Growths provided Ninetales doesn't have Roar

**Wigglytuff**: Wigglytuff easily takes its attacks thanks to Rest and Sleep Talk, while setting up Curses all day on it. However, it's cleanly 3HKOed in sun.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gabraltar.573149/]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

I'll check again after you implement before confirming qc 1/2

 

[BeeOrSomething]

confirming qc 1/2

 

[MrSoup]

View attachment 528588
[OVERVIEW]

Ninetales is a pokemon with massive highs and deep lows. It is one of the best checks to both Xatu, Weezing, and Magmar as it outspeeds bothall three, takes their attacks very well, and deals solid damage to both, especially to Weezing. Weezing in particular is one of the hardest pokemon to switch into in the tier, so being one of the most reliable switch ins to it is an incredible trait to have. Ninetales can 3HKO common offensive threats in the tier such as Xatu, Weezing, and Stantler with its STAB Flamethrower while crippling bulkier pokemon with Toxic, making it a generally difficult pokemon to switch into for non-Waters. Its amazing speed lets it revenge kill Xatu and Primeape in a pinch, while also making it very easy to pull off a rest. Ninetales' fire STAB means that Pineco cannot take advantage of it while resting, making it even easier for it to Rest and a solid lead to prevent an early spike. Ninetales' ice resist and electric neutrality also means that it stonewalls the likes of bolt-beam Porygon and Magnemite , making it one of the best Specially Defensive pokemon in the meta.

However, while Ninetales is amazing against two manyof the tier's top threats, it's horrible against another top threat: Octillery. Unlike other pokemon weak to water such as Graveler, Sudowoodo, Pupitar, Flareon, and even Rapidash, it is extremely bad at dealing any sort of immediate damage to it struggles to deal any sort of immediate damage to Octillery, meaning that it gives almost completely free opportunities to it. Octillery is one of the most dangerous pokemon in the tier and thudding against it is not an easy flaw to compensate for in the teambuilder. Ninetales is also easily revenge killed by Dugtrio, another top threat in the tier, and is threatened greatly by the Rock types of the tier as well. While Ninetales is threatening to frailer targets, it struggles to threaten other bulky pokemon with Rest and Sleep Talk like Wigglytuff, Hitmonlee, and Dewgong. Ninetales also faces competition as a fire type: Rapidash and Rest Talk Flareon can threaten Octillery with their much stronger Double-Edge, with the latter even 3HKOing it. Rapidash is also fast enough to outrun and revenge-kill Fearow this seems not relevant. All of these factors mean that, despite its amazing defensive utility, it is overall difficult to fit Ninetales on a team. i would not say fitting ninetales is difficult. it is, however, a glue mon that you tack on to patch weaknesses but its not gonna be on every team


[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Toxic/Sunny Day
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
this set or another set needs to include reflect along with ft/rest/talk. its an important tool ninetales uses commonly. ik that would change a lot in either this section or another but i dont think its good to push this out without reflect slashed somewhere
[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Flamethrower is its main STAB and is used over Fire Blast for the extra pp and perfect accuracy. Since Ninetales is primarly a defensive pokemon, it values reliability more than power. Rest consistently keeps it alive to check Xatu and Weezing while Sleep Talk prevents it from letting in dangerous in for free while sleeping. The last move gives Ninetales more utility. Toxic can be used to force a Rest from pokemon like Octillery and Dewgong, while completely ruining Porygon, Curse Light Screen Stantler, Dugtrio, Kingler rock types. Ninetales is an especially great user of Toxic as it threatens every Toxic immune pokemon, like Weezing, Gloom, and Magnemite very hard. Sunny Day severely weakens Octillery and Chinchou, allowing the likes of Pineco to get spikes on it or pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff to duel with it safely. Sunny Day also allows Ninetales to win the 1v1 vs Dewgong instead of losing to it, neuters Thunder accuracy from the likes of Weezing, Primeape, and Chinchou, turns a 3HKO on various pokemon like Xatu, Fearow, and Stantler into a 2HKO, and lets it 3HKO Wigglytuff, who would otherwise set up Curses all day on it.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that take advantage of Octillery are imperative to Ninetales' success. Grass types like Gloom, Exeggcute and Bayleef handle Hidden Power Electric variants of Octillery and Dugtrio, while appreciating Ninetales' ability to check Xatu and Weezing. Octillery itself, when equipped with Hidden Power Electric, takes care of Ice Beam variants of Octillery while appreciating Ninetales' ability to take care of grass types. Chinchou is the hardest punisher of Octillery in the tier, making it a solid partner for Ninetales as well. Pokemon that check Dugtrio like Dewgong is are required for Ninetales as well. Dewgong also appreciates Ninetales using Toxic on Curse Light Screen Stantler, a pokemon that takes advantage of Dewgong very well. Pokemon that struggle with Weezing such as Primeape, Hitmonlee, and the aforementioned grass types appreciate Ninetales' defensive services. If using Sunny Day, pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff are great partners. Both can take advantage of Octillery in sun but struggle to do so outside of sun. Wigglytuff also answers Chinchou, another major threat to Ninetales.

[SET]
name: Roar
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Roar
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Roar gives Ninetales unique offensive and defensive utility. On the offensive side, it lets Ninetales rack up Spikes damage on its checks, especially Octillery. Ninetales is an especially good user of Roar given it's great matchup against the most common spikes immune pokemon in the tier: Xatu. On the defensive side, it lets Ninetales emergency stop dangerous setup sweepers in their tracks, like Growth Pass Flareon and Curse Wigglytuff. Roar Ninetales is notably the best way of stopping Growth Pass Flareon, as it is the only decent pokemon that can fit Roar on its set, and it isn't threatened by a +1 Fire Blast at all. Roar's main downside is not being able to be used with Sleep Talk, as Roar will fail if called by Sleep Talk. This makes this set more vulnerable to giving free turns to dangerous pokemon like Dugtrio, makes it more annoyed by status, and makes it a worse check to Xatu and Weezing. Rest keeps Ninetales healthy while Toxic lets Ninetales shut down Curse Porygon and Stantler, who do not use Rest. Toxic pairs especially well with Roar because if a poisoned pokemon switches in as Ninetales uses Roar, it will take poison damage and not get leftovers recovery as it gets phazed out. Sunny Day is an option over Toxic to Roar in the face of Octillery but Toxic's interactions with Roar make it the generally prefered option.

Team Options
========

Pineco is a mandatory teammate on this set, as it makes Ninetales' Roar a threatening offensive weapon. Passive pokemon that are vulnerable to being setup on, such as Dewgong and Gloom appreciate Ninetales' ability to stop setup sweepers. Late game cleaners such as Xatu, Fearow, and Curse Stantler appreciate Ninetales' ability to wear down the opposing team with Roar in combination with spikes. Octillery and Dugtrio checks are extremely important as well: Chinchou, and Gloom help against the former, Dewgong helps against the latter, and pure Grass types like Exeggcute helps against both. Octillery itself helps against both while being more able to break holes in teams thanks to Ninetales racking up spikes damage with Roar. Octillery also appreciates Ninetales taking advantage of the grass types that will its Hidden Power Electric set. dugtrio is a great partner with this set to keep offensive spikes pressure

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Reflect prevents Dugtrio from revenge killing it while temporary neutralizing Fearow and rock types, but it makes it even more helpless against Octillery. reflect has many more uses, such as vs stantler or sparce or kingler or fearow, allowing allies to switch in and more appropriately handle on defensive teamsHidden Power Electric is its strongest move to hit Octillery with but it's still not that strong, gives it worse DVs, and is completely useless against the rock types. Hidden Power Grass rectifies that issue but gives it far worse Sleep Talk odds against Xatu i think grass should be mentioned first as its far superior to electrice. Both Hidden Power options also prevent it from stopping Curse Stantler with Toxic.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Water types**: Octillery and Chinchou switch into Ninetales all day and turn it into an opportunity to fire off their dangerous attacks. Dewgong is slightly worse against it due to its lack of a fire resist and weaker special attack but it still gets the job done. None of these pokemon enjoy Ninetales setting up Sunny Day, however. especially chinch

**Dugtrio**: Dugtrio outspeeds Ninetales and revenge kills a weakened Ninetales. However, it does not enjoy switching into Flamethrower and is ruined by Toxic

**Rock types**: Graveler, Sudowoodo, and Pupitar all takes its Flamethrower easily and smacks it hard with their STAB attacks. However, they all hate Toxic. or the rarer HP grass

**Fire types**: Rapidash and Rest Talk Flareon endlessly wall Ninetales while not being walled back thanks to Double-Edge. Both can even take advantage of Ninetales' own sun. Growth Pass Flareon can also use Ninetales as an opportunity to pass Growths provided Ninetales doesn't have Roar magmar doesn't check ninetales so this might not be a great way to list dash and flareon. it should also say rest talk dash and flareon, not just flareon

**Wigglytuff**: Wigglytuff easily takes its attacks thanks to Rest and Sleep Talk, while setting up Curses all day on it. However, it's cleanly 3HKOed in sun.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gabraltar.573149/]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

analysis might have to change a bit bc i am pretty adamant that reflect should be a main set option on a rest talk set

 

[BeeOrSomething]

GP Team

 

[adorluigi]

I do amcheck

Hide

[OVERVIEW]

Ninetales is a pokemon Pokemon with massive highs and deep lows. It is one of the best checks to both Xatu, Weezing, and Magmar as it outspeeds all three, takes their attacks very well, and deals solid damage, especially to Weezing. Weezing in particular is one of the hardest pokemon Pokemon to switch into in the tier, so being one of the most reliable switch-ins(AH) to it is an incredible trait to have. Ninetales can 3HKO common offensive threats in the tier such as Xatu, Weezing, and Stantler with its STAB Flamethrower while crippling bulkier pokemon Pokemon with Toxic, making it a generally difficult pokemon Pokemon to switch into for non-Waters non-Water-types. Its amazing speed Speed lets it revenge kill Xatu and Primeape in a pinch, while also making it very easy to pull off a rest Rest. Ninetales's fire STAB Flamethrower means that Pineco cannot take advantage of it while Resting resting, making it even easier for it to Rest,(AC) while and also making it a solid lead to prevent early Spikes spikes. Ninetales's ice Ice resistance and electric Electric neutrality also means that it stonewalls the likes of bolt-beam BoltBeam Porygon and Magnemite,(AC) making it one of the best specially defensive pokemon Pokemon in the metagame.

However, while Ninetales is amazing against many of the tier's top threats, it's horrible against another: Octillery. Unlike other pokemon Pokemon weak to water Water such as Graveler, Sudowoodo, Pupitar, Flareon, and even Rapidash, it Ninetales struggles to deal any sort of immediate damage to it Octillery, meaning that it gives almost completely free opportunities to it. Octillery is one of the most dangerous pokemon Pokemon in the tier and thudding against it is not an easy flaw to compensate for in the teambuilder. Ninetales is also easily revenge killed by Dugtrio, another top threat in the tier, and is threatened greatly by the Rock-types(AH) of the tier as well. Ninetales also gives free switch-ins to Fire-types like Rapidash and Flareon, the latter of which is an especially bad threat to give free turns to, thanks to its wallbreaking and Baton Pass capabilities. While Ninetales is threatening to frailer targets, it struggles to threaten other bulky pokemon RestTalk Pokemon with Rest and Sleep Talk like Wigglytuff, Hitmonlee, and Dewgong. Ninetales also faces competition from the aforementioned Fire-types: Rapidash and Rest Talk Flareon, (AC) which can threaten Octillery with their much stronger Double-Edge, with the latter even 3HKOing it. Rapidash is also fast enough to outrun and revenge-kill revenge kill Fearow. All of these factors mean that, despite its amazing defensive utility, Ninetales is not for every team.


[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Sunny Day / Toxic / Reflect
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Flamethrower is its main STAB move and is used over Fire Blast for the extra pp PP and perfect accuracy. Since Ninetales is primarly Primarily a defensive pokemon Pokemon, it values reliability more than power. Rest consistently keeps it alive to check Xatu and Weezing while Sleep Talk prevents it from letting in dangerous threats in for free while sleeping. The last move gives Ninetales more utility. Sunny Day severely weakens Octillery and Chinchou, allowing the likes of Pineco to get spikes set Spikes up on it them or pokemon allowing Pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff to duel with it safely. Sunny Day also allows Ninetales to win one-on-one against the 1v1 vs Dewgong instead of losing to it, neuters Thunder accuracy from the likes of Weezing, Primeape, and Chinchou, turns a 3HKO from Flamethrower against on various pokemon Pokemon like Xatu, Fearow, and Stantler into a 2HKO, and lets it 3HKO Wigglytuff, who which would otherwise set up Curses all day on it. Toxic can be used to force a Rest from pokemon Pokemon like Octillery, Dewgong, Flareon, and Rapidash, while completely ruining Porygon, Curse + Light Screen Stantler, Dugtrio, Kingler, and Rock-types. Reflect lets Ninetales punish pokemon Pokemon like Dugtrio and the Rock-types for switching in, (AC) while also letting its and lets its teammates switch in more safely against many pokemon Pokemon, such as Fearow, Kingler, Stantler, and Wigglytuff.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that take advantage of Octillery are imperative to Ninetales's success. Grass-types(AH) like Gloom, Exeggcute,(AC) and Bayleef handle Hidden Power Electric variants of Octillery and Dugtrio, while appreciating Ninetales's ability to check Xatu and Weezing. The grass types Grass-types especially enjoy Reflect from Ninetales, as it temporary temporarily neuters threats they let in for free, such as Fearow, Stantler, and Wigglytuff. Octillery itself, when equipped with Hidden Power Electric, takes care of Ice Beam variants of Octillery, Rapidash, and Flareon, while appreciating Ninetales's ability to take care of Grass-types grass types. Chinchou is the hardest punisher of best Octillery switch-in in the tier, while also appreciating which also appreciates Reflect Ninetales keeping it safe against Dugtrio. Pokemon that check Dugtrio like Dewgong are required for Ninetales as well. Dewgong also appreciates Ninetales using Toxic on Curse + Light Screen Stantler, a pokemon Pokemon that takes advantage of Dewgong very well. Pokemon that struggle with Weezing such as Primeape, Hitmonlee, and the aforementioned grass types Grass-types appreciate Ninetales's defensive services. If using Sunny Day, pokemon Pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff are great partners. Both can take advantage of Octillery in sun but struggle to do so outside of sun. Wigglytuff also answers Chinchou, which is another major threat to Ninetales. Rocks-Type Rock-types can be used to deal with the Fire-types that Ninetales lets in for free. Graveler spins away spikes, making it easier for Ninetales to stay alive. Sudowoodo and Pupitar appreciate sun, as it lets both live a Surf from Octillery.

[SET]
name: Roar
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Roar
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Roar gives Ninetales unique offensive and defensive utility. On the offensive side, it lets Ninetales rack up Spikes damage on its checks, especially Octillery. Ninetales is an especially good user of Roar given it's its great matchup against the most common spikes immune pokemon Spikes-immune Pokemon in the tier: Xatu. On the defensive side, it lets Ninetales act as an emergency stop to dangerous setup sweepers in their tracks, like Growth Pass Flareon and Curse Wigglytuff. Roar Ninetales is notably the best way of stopping Growth Pass Flareon, as it is the only decent pokemon Pokemon that can fit Roar on its set, and it isn't threatened by a +1 Fire Blast at all. Roar's main downside is not being able to be used with Sleep Talk, as Roar will fail if called by Sleep Talk. This makes this set more vulnerable to giving free turns to dangerous pokemon Pokemon like Dugtrio, makes it Ninetales more annoyed by vulnerable to status, and makes it a worse check to Xatu and Weezing. Rest keeps Ninetales healthy while Toxic lets Ninetales shut down Curse Porygon and Stantler, who which do not use Rest. Toxic pairs especially well with Roar because if a poisoned pokemon Pokemon switches in as Ninetales uses Roar, it will take poison damage and not get leftovers recovery as it gets phazed phased out. Sunny Day is an option over Toxic to Roar in the face of Octillery but Toxic's interactions with Roar make it the generally prefered Preferred option.

Team Options
========

Pineco is a mandatory teammate on this set, as it makes Ninetales's Roar a threatening offensive weapon. Passive pokemon Pokemon that are vulnerable to being setup on,(RC) such as Dewgong and Gloom appreciate Ninetales's ability to stop setup sweepers. Late-game(AH) cleaners such as Xatu, Fearow, and Curse Stantler appreciate Ninetales's ability to wear down the opposing team with Roar in combination with spikes Spikes. Octillery and Dugtrio checks are extremely important as well: Chinchou,(RC) and Gloom help against the former, Dewgong helps against the latter, and pure Grass-types(AH) like Exeggcute helps against both. Octillery itself helps against both while being more able to break holes in teams thanks to Ninetales racking up spikes Spikes damage with Roar. Octillery also appreciates Ninetales taking advantage of the grass types Grass-types that will wall its Hidden Power Electric set. Dugtrio also keeps up the offensive pressure that this set demands.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hidden Power Grass is its Ninetales's strongest move to hit Octillery with but it's still not that strong, gives it worse DVs, and gives worse Sleep Talk rolls against Xatu. Hidden Power Electric rectifies that issue and has better DVs, but it's completely useless against the Rock-types rock types. Both Hidden Power options are generally outclassed by the utility Sunny Day provides.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Water-types(AH)**: Octillery and Chinchou switch into Ninetales all day and turn it into an opportunity to fire off their dangerous attacks. Dewgong is slightly worse against it due to its lack of a fire resistance and weaker special attack,(AC) but it still gets the job done. None of these pokemon Pokemon, especially Chinchou, enjoy Ninetales setting up Sunny Day, however.

**Dugtrio**: Dugtrio outspeeds Ninetales and revenge kills a weakened Ninetales. However, it does not enjoy switching into Flamethrower and is ruined by Toxic.

**Rock-types(AH)**: Graveler, Sudowoodo, and Pupitar all takes its Ninetales's Flamethrower easily and smacks it hit back hard with their STAB attacks. However, they all hate Toxic or and the rarer Hidden Power Grass.

**Rapidash and Flareon**: Rest Talk RestTalk Rapidash and Rest Talk RestTalk Flareon endlessly wall Ninetales while not being walled back thanks to Double-Edge. Both can even take advantage of Ninetales's own sun. Growth pass Pass Flareon can also use Ninetales as an opportunity to pass Growths provided Ninetales doesn't have Roar.(AP)

**Wigglytuff**: Wigglytuff easily takes its attacks thanks to Rest and + Sleep Talk, while setting up Curses all day on it. However, it's cleanly 3HKOed in sun.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gabraltar.573149/]]
- Quality checked by: [[https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/beeorsomething.583728/, ], [https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/mrsoup.375193/, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

 

[autumn]

gabraltar implement the above amcheck and i'll do a check after

 

[gabraltar]

it seems like I already did a while ago, sorry for not clarifying autumn

 

[adorluigi]

based off of feedback I've received I decided to re-check my other amcheck
updated a few points and + ignored the mistakes I covered in other post (copy of the main post but it looks like not fully implemented amcheck)

Hide

View attachment 528588
[OVERVIEW]

Ninetales is a Pokemon with massive highs and deep lows. It is one of the best checks to Xatu, Weezing, and Magmar as it outspeeds all three, takes their attacks very well, and deals solid damage, especially to Weezing. Weezing in particular is one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into in the tier, so being one of the most reliable switch-ins to it is an incredible trait to have. Ninetales can 3HKO common offensive threats in the tier such as Xatu, Weezing, and Stantler with its STAB Flamethrower while crippling Water-type Pokemon with Sunny Day,(comma) or bulkier Pokemon with Toxic. Its amazing Speed lets it revenge kill Xatu and Primeape in a pinch,(comma) while also making it very easy to pull off a Rest. Ninetales' fire STAB Flamethrower means that Pineco cannot take advantage of it while Resting, making it even easier for it to Rest, while also making it a solid lead to prevent early Spikes. Ninetales' Ice resistance and Electric neutrality also means that it stonewalls the likes of BoltBeam Porygon and Magnemite, making it one of the best specially defensive Pokemon in the metagame.

However, while Ninetales is amazing against many of the tier's top threats, it's horrible against another: Octillery. Unlike other Pokemon weak to Water such as Graveler, Sudowoodo, Pupitar, Flareon, and even Rapidash, Ninetales struggles to deal any sort of immediate damage to Octillery, meaning that it gives almost completely free opportunities to Octillery. Octillery is one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier,(comma) and thudding against it is not an easy flaw to compensate for in the teambuilder. Ninetales is also easily revenge killed by Dugtrio, another top threat in the tier, and is threatened greatly by the Rock-types of the tier as well. Ninetales also gives free switch-ins to Fire-types like Rapidash and Flareon, the latter of which is an especially bad threat to give free turns to, thanks to its wallbreaking and Baton Pass capabilities. While Ninetales is threatening to frailer targets, it struggles to threaten other bulky RestTalk Pokemon like Wigglytuff, Hitmonlee, and Dewgong. Ninetales also faces competition from the aforementioned Fire-types: Rapidash and Rest Talk Flareon, which can threaten Octillery with their much stronger Double-Edge, with the latter even 3HKOing it. Rapidash is also fast enough to outrun and revenge kill Fearow. All of these factors mean that, despite its amazing defensive utility, Ninetales is not for every team.


[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Sunny Day / Toxic / Reflect
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Flamethrower is its main STAB move and is used over Fire Blast for the extra PP and perfect accuracy. Since Ninetales is primarly a defensive Pokemon, it values reliability more than power. Rest consistently keeps it alive to check Xatu and Weezing while Sleep Talk prevents it from letting in dangerous threats in for free while sleeping. The last move gives Ninetales more utility. Sunny Day severely weakens Octillery and Chinchou, allowing the likes of Pineco to set up Spikes on them or allowing Pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff to duel with it safely. Sunny Day also allows Ninetales to win the one-on-one against Dewgong instead of losing to it, neuters Thunder accuracy from the likes of Weezing, Primeape, and Chinchou, turns a 3HKO from Flamethrower against various Pokemon like Xatu, Fearow, and Stantler into a 2HKO, and lets it 3HKO Wigglytuff, which would otherwise set up Curses all day on it. Toxic can be used to force a Rest from Pokemon like Octillery, Dewgong, Flareon, and Rapidash, while completely ruining Porygon, Curse Light Screen Stantler, Dugtrio, Kingler, and Rock-types. Reflect lets Ninetales punish Pokemon like Dugtrio and Rock-types for switching in while also letting its team switch in more safely against many Pokemon, such as Fearow, Kingler, Stantler, and Wigglytuff.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that take advantage of Octillery are imperative to Ninetales' success. Grass-types like Gloom, Exeggcute, and Bayleef handle Hidden Power Electric variants of Octillery and Dugtrio,(comma) while appreciating Ninetales' ability to check Xatu and Weezing. The Grass-types especially enjoy Reflect from Ninetales, as it temporarily neuters threats they let in for free, such as Fearow, Stantler, and Wigglytuff. Octillery itself, when equipped with Hidden Power Electric, takes care of Ice Beam variants of Octillery, Rapidash, and Flareon,(comma) while appreciating Ninetales' ability to take care of Grass-types. Chinchou is the best punisher of Octillery in the tier, which also appreciates Reflect Ninetales keeping it safe against Dugtrio. Pokemon that check Dugtrio like Dewgong are required for Ninetales as well. Dewgong also appreciates Ninetales using Toxic on Curse + Light Screen Stantler, a Pokemon that takes advantage of Dewgong very well. Pokemon that struggle with Weezing such as Primeape, Hitmonlee, and the aforementioned Grass-types appreciate Ninetales' defensive services. If using Sunny Day, Pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff are great partners. Both can take advantage of Octillery in sun but struggle to do so outside of sun. Wigglytuff also answers Chinchou, which is another major threat to Ninetales. Rock-Types can be used to deal with the Fire-types that Ninetales lets in for free. Graveler spins away spikes, making it easier for Ninetales to stay alive. Sudowoodo and Pupitar appreciate sun, as it lets both live a Surf from Octillery.

[SET]
name: Roar
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Roar
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Roar gives Ninetales unique offensive and defensive utility. On the offensive side, it lets Ninetales rack up Spikes damage on its checks, especially Octillery. Ninetales is an especially good user of Roar given its great matchup against the most common Spikes-immune pokemon in the tier: Xatu. On the defensive side, it Roar lets Ninetales act as an emergency stop to dangerous setup sweepers, like Growth Pass Flareon and Curse Wigglytuff. Roar Ninetales is notably the best way of stopping Growth Pass Flareon, as it is the only decent Pokemon that can fit Roar on its set, and it isn't threatened by a +1 Fire Blast at all. Roar's main downside is not being able to be used with Sleep Talk, as Roar will fail if called by Sleep Talk. This makes this set more vulnerable to giving free turns to dangerous Pokemon like Dugtrio, makes Ninetales more vulnerable by status, and makes it a worse check to Xatu and Weezing. Rest keeps Ninetales healthy,(comma) while Toxic lets Ninetales shut down Curse Porygon and Stantler, which do not use Rest. Toxic pairs especially well with Roar because if a poisoned Pokemon switches in as Ninetales uses Roar, it will take poison damage and not get leftovers recovery as it gets phased out. Sunny Day is an option over Toxic to Roar in the face of Octillery but Toxic's interactions with Roar make it the generally prefered preferred option.

Team Options
========

Pineco is a mandatory teammate on this set, as it makes Ninetales' Roar a threatening offensive weapon. Passive Pokemon that are vulnerable to being setup set up on such as Dewgong and Gloom appreciate Ninetales' ability to stop setup sweepers. Late-game cleaners such as Xatu, Fearow, and Curse Stantler appreciate Ninetales' ability to wear down the opposing team with Roar in combination with Spikes. Octillery and Dugtrio checks are extremely important as well: Chinchou and Gloom help against the former, Dewgong helps against the latter, and pure Grass-types like Exeggcute helps against both. Octillery itself help against both while being more able to break holes in teams thanks to Ninetales racking up Spikes damage with Roar. Octillery also appreciates Ninetales taking advantage of the Grass-types that wall its Hidden Power Electric set. Dugtrio also keeps up the offensive pressure that this set demands.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hidden Power Grass is Ninetale's strongest move to hit Octillery with but it's still not that strong, gives it worse DVs, and gives worse Sleep Talk rolls against Xatu. Hidden Power Electric rectifies that issue and has better DVs, but it's completely useless against Rock-types. Both Hidden Power options are generally outclassed by the utility Sunny Day provides.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Water-types**: Octillery and Chinchou switch into Ninetales all day and turn it into an opportunity to fire off their dangerous attacks. Dewgong is slightly worse against it due to its lack of a fire resist and weaker special attack, but it still gets the job done. None of these Pokemon, especially Chinchou, enjoy Ninetales setting up Sunny Day, however.

**Dugtrio**: Dugtrio outspeeds Ninetales and revenge kills a weakened Ninetales. However, it does not enjoy switching into Flamethrower and is ruined by Toxic.

**Rock-types**: Graveler, Sudowoodo, and Pupitar all takes Ninetales's Flamethrower easily and hit back hard with their STAB attacks. However, they all hate Toxic and the rarer Hidden Power Grass.

**Rapidash and Flareon**: RestTalk Rapidash and RestTalk Flareon endlessly wall Ninetales while not being walled back thanks to Double-Edge. Both can even take advantage of Ninetales' own sun. Growth pass Flareon can also use Ninetales as an opportunity to pass Growths provided Ninetales doesn't have Roar.

**Wigglytuff**: Wigglytuff easily takes its attacks thanks to Rest + Sleep Talk,(comma) while setting up Curses all day on it. However, it's cleanly 3HKOed in sun.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gabraltar.573149/]]
- Quality checked by: [[https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/beeorsomething.583728/, ], [https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/mrsoup.375193/, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/adorluigi.528364/, ], [, ]]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gabraltar.573149
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/beeorsomething.583728
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/mrsoup.375193/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/adorluigi.528364

 

[autumn]

1/1 GP Team done, ceedit me + adorluigi
use this method to implement the check (video in point 3) it will make sure you're not missing things

Hide

[OVERVIEW]

Ninetales is a Pokemon with massive highs and deep lows. It is one of the best checks to Xatu, Weezing, and Magmar, (AC) as it outspeeds all three, takes their attacks very well, and deals solid damage, especially to Weezing. Weezing in particular is one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into in the tier, so being one of the most reliable switch-ins to it is an incredible trait to have. Ninetales can 3HKO common offensive threats in the tier (repetition) such as Xatu, Weezing, and Stantler with its STAB Flamethrower while crippling Water-type Pokemon with Sunny Day,(comma) or bulkier Pokemon with Toxic. Its amazing Speed lets it revenge kill Xatu and Primeape in a pinch,(comma) while also making it very easy to pull off a Rest. Ninetales' Ninetales's (if a pokemon's name ends with s, possessive is still 's - so Ninetales's not Ninetales') fire STAB Fire-type STAB move Flamethrower means that Pineco cannot take advantage of it while Resting using Rest (avoid using moves as verbs), making it even easier for it to Rest, while also Ninetales itself to use Rest and making it a solid lead to prevent early Spikes. (it wasn't clear that the 'it' was ninetales not pineco + edited to cut clauses) Ninetales' Ninetales's Ice resistance and Electric neutrality also means that it stonewalls the likes of BoltBeam Porygon and Magnemite, making it one of the best specially defensive Pokemon in the metagame.

However, while Ninetales is amazing against many of the tier's top threats, it's horrible against another: Octillery. Unlike other Pokemon weak to Water such as Graveler, Sudowoodo, Pupitar, Flareon, and even Rapidash, Ninetales struggles to deal any sort of immediate damage to Octillery, meaning that it gives almost completely free opportunities to Octillery giving it free opportunities. (free setup opportunities? or free turns?) Octillery is one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier,(comma) and thudding against it is not an easy flaw to compensate for in the teambuilder. Ninetales is also easily revenge killed by Dugtrio, another top threat in the tier, and is threatened greatly by the Rock-types of the tier as well. (there's no need to keep repeating 'in the tier' - it's been established / is obvious. are there examples of rock-types?) Ninetales also gives free switch-ins to Fire-types like Rapidash and Flareon, the latter of which is an especially bad threat to give free turns to, thanks to its wallbreaking and Baton Pass capabilities. While Ninetales is threatening to frailer targets, it struggles to threaten other bulky RestTalk Pokemon like Wigglytuff, Hitmonlee, and Dewgong. Ninetales also faces competition from the aforementioned Fire-types: Rapidash and Rest Talk RestTalk Flareon, which can threaten Octillery with their much stronger Double-Edge, with the latter even 3HKOing it. Rapidash is also fast enough to outrun and revenge kill Fearow. All of these factors mean that, despite its amazing defensive utility, Ninetales is not for every team. (fluff phrase, adds nothing)


[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Sunny Day / Toxic / Reflect
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Flamethrower is its main STAB move and is used over Fire Blast for the extra PP and perfect accuracy. Since Ninetales is primarly a defensive Pokemon, it values reliability more than power. Rest consistently keeps it alive healthy to check Xatu and Weezing, (AC) while Sleep Talk prevents it from letting in dangerous threats in for free while sleeping. The last move gives Ninetales more utility. Sunny Day severely weakens Octillery and Chinchou, allowing the likes of Pineco to set up Spikes on them or allowing enabling (repetition) Pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff to duel with it safely. Sunny Day also allows Ninetales to win the one-on-one against Dewgong instead of losing to it; (semicolon) neuters Thunder accuracy from the likes of Weezing, Primeape, and Chinchou; (semicolon) turns a 3HKO from Flamethrower against various Pokemon like Xatu, Fearow, and Stantler into a 2HKO; (semicolon) and lets it 3HKO Wigglytuff, which would otherwise set up Curses all day Curse on it. (changed all commas connecting list items to semicolons; semicolons can be used to separate list items if they have commas in them to make it clearer what's grouped tgether) Toxic can be used to force a Rest from Pokemon like Octillery, Dewgong, Flareon, and Rapidash (RC) while completely ruining Porygon, Curse Light Screen Stantler, Dugtrio, Kingler, and Rock-types. Reflect lets Ninetales punish Pokemon like Dugtrio and Rock-types for switching in while also letting its team switch in more safely against many Pokemon, such as Fearow, Kingler, Stantler, and Wigglytuff.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that take advantage of Octillery are imperative to Ninetales' Ninetales's success. Grass-types like Gloom, Exeggcute, and Bayleef handle Hidden Power Electric variants of Octillery and Dugtrio,(comma) while appreciating Ninetales' ability to check Xatu and Weezing. The Grass-types especially enjoy Reflect from Ninetales, as it temporarily neuters threats they let in for free, such as Fearow, Stantler, and Wigglytuff. Octillery itself, when equipped with Hidden Power Electric, takes care of Ice Beam variants of Octillery, Rapidash, and Flareon,(comma) while appreciating Ninetales' Ninetales's ability to take care of Grass-types. Chinchou is the best punisher of Octillery in the tier, which also appreciates Reflect Ninetales keeping it safe against Dugtrio. Pokemon that check Dugtrio like Dewgong are required for Ninetales as well. Dewgong also appreciates Ninetales using Toxic on Curse + Light Screen Stantler, a Pokemon that takes advantage of Dewgong very well. Pokemon that struggle with Weezing such as Primeape, Hitmonlee, and the aforementioned Grass-types appreciate Ninetales' Ninetales's defensive services. If using Sunny Day, Pokemon like Stantler and Wigglytuff are great partners. Both can take advantage of Octillery in sun but struggle to do so outside of sun. Wigglytuff also answers Chinchou, which is another major threat to Ninetales. Rock-Types Rock-types can be used to deal with the Fire-types that Ninetales lets in for free. Graveler spins away spikes removes Spikes with Rapid Spin, making it easier for Ninetales to stay alive healthy. Sudowoodo and Pupitar appreciate sun, as it lets both live survive a Surf from Octillery.

[SET]
name: Roar
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Roar
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Roar gives Ninetales unique offensive and defensive utility. On the offensive side, it lets Ninetales rack up Spikes damage on its checks, especially Octillery. Ninetales is an especially good user of Roar given its great matchup against the most common Spikes-immune pokemon Pokemon in the tier: Xatu. On the defensive side, it Roar lets Ninetales act as an emergency stop to dangerous setup sweepers, like Growth Pass Flareon and Curse Wigglytuff. Roar Ninetales is notably the best way of stopping Growth Pass Flareon, as it is the only decent Pokemon that can fit Roar on its set, and it isn't threatened by a +1 Fire Blast at all. Roar's main downside is not being able to be used with Sleep Talk, as Roar will fail if called by Sleep Talk. This makes this set more vulnerable to giving free turns to dangerous Pokemon like Dugtrio, makes Ninetales more vulnerable by status, and makes it a worse check to Xatu and Weezing. Rest keeps Ninetales healthy,(comma) while Toxic lets Ninetales shut down Curse Porygon and Stantler, which do not use Rest. Toxic pairs especially well with Roar because if a poisoned Pokemon switches in as Ninetales uses Roar, it will take poison damage and not get leftovers recovery as it gets phased out Leftovers recovery as it gets phazed. Sunny Day is an option over Toxic to Roar in the face of Octillery but Toxic's interactions with Roar make it the generally prefered preferred option.

Team Options
========

Pineco is a mandatory teammate on this set, as it makes Ninetales' Ninetales's Roar a threatening offensive weapon. Passive Pokemon that are vulnerable to being setup set up on such as Dewgong and Gloom appreciate Ninetales' Ninetales's ability to stop setup sweepers. Late-game cleaners such as Xatu, Fearow, and Curse Stantler also appreciate Ninetales' its ability to wear down the opposing team with Roar in combination with Spikes. Octillery and Dugtrio checks are extremely important as well: Chinchou and Gloom help against the former, Dewgong helps against the latter, and pure Grass-types like Exeggcute helps against both. Octillery itself help against both while being more able to break holes in teams thanks to Ninetales racking up Spikes damage with Roar. Octillery also appreciates Ninetales taking advantage of the Grass-types that wall its Hidden Power Electric set. Dugtrio also keeps up the offensive pressure that this set demands.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hidden Power Grass is Ninetale's Ninetales's strongest move to hit Octillery with, (AC) but it's still not that strong, gives it worse DVs, and gives it worse Sleep Talk rolls against Xatu. Hidden Power Electric rectifies that issue and has better DVs, but it's completely useless against Rock-types. Both Hidden Power options are generally outclassed by the utility Sunny Day provides.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Water-types**: Octillery and Chinchou consistently switch into Ninetales all day and turn it into an opportunity to fire off their dangerous attacks. Dewgong is slightly worse against it due to its lack of a fire resist Fire resistance and weaker special attack Special Attack, but it still gets the job done. None of these Pokemon, especially Chinchou, enjoy Ninetales setting up Sunny Day, however.

**Dugtrio**: Dugtrio outspeeds Ninetales and revenge kills a weakened Ninetales can revenge kill it if it is weakened (removes repetition of Ninetales). However, it does not enjoy switching into Flamethrower and is ruined by Toxic.

**Rock-types**: Graveler, Sudowoodo, and Pupitar all takes Ninetales's Flamethrower easily and hit back hard with their STAB attacks. However, they all hate Toxic and the rarer Hidden Power Grass.

**Rapidash and Flareon**: RestTalk Rapidash and RestTalk Flareon endlessly wall Ninetales while not being walled back thanks to their access to Double-Edge. Both can even take advantage of Ninetales' Ninetales's own sun. Growth pass Flareon can also use Ninetales as an opportunity to pass Growths provided Ninetales it doesn't have Roar.

**Wigglytuff**: Wigglytuff easily takes its Ninetales's attacks thanks to Rest + Sleep Talk,(comma) while setting up Curses all day Curse on it. However, it's cleanly 3HKOed by Ninetales in sun.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gabraltar.573149/]]
- Quality checked by: [[https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/beeorsomething.583728/, ], [https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/mrsoup.375193/, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/adorluigi.528364/, ], [, ]]
Written by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/gabraltar.573149
Quality checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/beeorsomething.583728
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/mrsoup.375193/
Grammar checked by:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/adorluigi.528364

 

[BeeOrSomething]

autumn done

 

[Rabia]

uploaded