Gyarados' Gambit

Ok hey guys is me again nwt with my third (and best) Rmt. This is a team that I have been working on for quite some time now, testing each and every individual part inorder to make sure I know how to use each of my planned members. This team is one that I believe has no true weaknesses, and has an answer for everything. This teams goal is similar to a goal of a chess play known as the queens gambit, which is a series of moves that allows the queen to dominate the game and win it pretty much on her own. I built this team to be full of tanks, with an answer for everything that came my way, waiting for my opponent to make that one blunder that allows me to put my queen into play and achieve an endgame. Now that’s enough of the intro, let me explain my process.

The build

Round 1

I started this team with a dual defensive core, I wanted two pokes with good type synergy, and could take hits for each other. I came up with an amazing physical wall and an amazing special wall, who did not mind switching in and out, Meet my regenerator core, Tangrowth, and slowking.


Round 2

Upon choosing a regenerator core, I had began paving the route that this team was going. I have done a lot of work with regenerator pokemon because quite frankly I think it is one of the best abilities in the game. One thing I have learned about regenerator pokemon is that they highly appreciate having teammates that don’t mind switching in on an attack and because of that I knew that I had to build a team of tanks. That being said my next step was to round out my synergy and beings that I already had a grass and a water type, a fire type seemed fitting and what better fire tank is there than the mighty heatran



Round 3

With my fwg core complete it was time for me to cover my weaknesses, and it took me a really long time to find one. What I came to was that if I lost heatran I had a bug weakness that would leave me vulnerable to volt turn cores that are so common in today’s meta, so then I thought what can I do to fix this, and the simplest thing that came to mind was, don’t loose heatran. I already had tangrowth and slowking to tank the fighting types that would be gunning for tran, and they both seemed to cover the water weakness aswell, but with a 4x ground weakness, eq was my bane, so I decided to add some flying types who were tanky in their own right Enter gliscor and Skarmory


Round 4

At this point I took a step back and looked at my team in admiration. It was extremely difficult to decide what I should use in my final spot. I knew that I wanted an offensive presence, something that could take advantage of getting a free switch in, and with one boost could begin to wreak havoc on a previously damaged team. I came up with mega gyarados.

Round 5

After getting an amazing amount of response from the great people in the RMT section of forums I decided to drop gliscor and skarmory for zapdos and conkeldurr, Doing this gave the team more of an offensive presence.

Round 6

Zapdos just wasn’t doing it for me, the only thing that it really had going for it was the typing, without access to whirlwind I had no way to get rid of sweepers and it was a very annoying match against a sigilyph that ended up making me switch to mandibuzz, who is an amazing piece that can be plugged into almost any team nowadays and function well.


The team in depth

Tangrowth@leftovers

Nature: impish

Ability: regenerator

EV’s: 252 hp/ 252 def/ 4atk

-leech seed

-synthesis

-knock off

-power whip

Team role: physical wall, endgame when all special attackers are eliminated.

Bio: This is the pokemon on this team that lead me on to the others. This pokemon just amazes me. The amount of damage this thing can tank is unreal, I can pretty much guarantee that there is no physical move that will ohko this behemoth un boosted. This pokemon is used on my team whenever I predict a physical move that is not fire type, usually it will take no more than 20% damage, which is widdled down to a measly 12 after leftovers recovery. Upon seeing this most opponents will tend to switch into a special attacker, I take advantage of this predicted switch to either set up seeds or use knock off depending on what I predict. I will also bring this guy in late game if I have managed to get rid of all of the special attackers on my opponents team. One v. one there is no physical pokemon that I think can beat this set, and if in an endgame situation I find myself taking heavy damage, I can just switch to a better match up, and come right back in all healed up thanks to regenerator.

Pros: Great physical tank, usefull moves in knock off and leech seed, great ability in regenerator, High staying power

Cons: pretty slow, paper thin special defenses, can be predictable

Other options: I really do not want to drop this poke from t he team as it pretty much makes the team what it is, I have considered other moves in the spot that synthesis currently occupies, substitute was a thought if I predicted a switch I could use a sub to scout and choose more knowledgeably whether to use seeds or knock off or maybe even power whip, I also considered using sleep powder but found it’s inaccuracy disconcerting. Tankgrowth really doesn’t need the recovery but I suppose it is usefull in the endgame.


Slowking @ assault vest

Nature: calm

Ability: regenerator

EV’s: 252 hp/ 4 spatk/ 252 spdef

- Scald

- Ice beam

- Psyshock

- Fire blast


Team role: special tank/ special attacker

Bio: The second half of my regenerator core and the yin to tangrowth’s yang. The synergy of these two pokemon is simply amazing. Almost anything that could touch one is nothing more than a tickle to the other. The only shared weakness between the two would be bug type moves, but the two are maximized in def and spdef respectively so whereas a bug buzz may be fatal to tangrowth, slowking can shrug it off, and the converse is true for a U-turn. On its own slowking is also a very viable threat offensively, even without much investment it is still able to hit reasonably hard with it’s stabs and has great coverage in general able to hit a majority of the meta for super effective damage. Slowking plays a vital role on this team because it is my main answer to special threats and for that reason it must be kept healthy, which regenerator helps so much in doing.


Pros: great synergy with tangrowth, very specially tanky, great coverage

Cons: can be a bit underwhelming offensively

Other options: I really don’t think that there is much else I can do here outside of swaping the assault vest for perhaps leftovers allowing slowking to use slack off to recover hp, however I do not think that this is necessary due to the fact that it has regenerator and there are plenty of others on the team that will not mind taking a hit. I might want to switch up the ev’s inorder to hit a little harder but I would need someone to run some calcs for me on that (I do use the damage calc but not very well)


Heatran @ leftovers

Nature: calm

Ability: flash fire

EV’s: 252hp/ 4 spatk/ 252 spdef

- Stealth rock

- toxic

- Lava plume

- Ancient power


Team role: Rock setter and general type match up nightmare- secondary special tank


Bio: This fire spider is a type matchup nightmare. It is a poke that every team must prepare for because it will wall you to death. The fire/ steel typing is amazing, and outside of ground type moves, it is almost impossible to ohko unboosted. It has great overall synergy with tangrowth and slowking, completing the ever so crucial fwg core. It is a great status absorber which is the bane to most defensively based teams, as my team is not running a cleric I figured dual status catchers were a must so he and gliscor make up this slot. Heatran also covers gliscor’s huge ice weakness, and it is also an amazing talonflame check. Which is why I have it packing ancient power. In the late game this guy is a pain in the ass to deal with I’m sure because it just has so many resistances, allowing it to late game sweep even against physical attackers. Rocks are really helpful for this team as in theory my team forces a lot of switches due to the sheer synergy of the group.


Pros: amazing typing, great overall synergy with the team, type matchup nightmare


Cons: I really dislike the fact that it has a 3x weakness to ground moves, although I do counter that with 2 immunities and a resist, I still find tran to be prediction bait.


Other options: I have considered running an air balloon but the one time usage is a bit shaky in my book. I also thought of running protect over earth power to scout, as well as roar to phase, right now I am keeping 3 attacking moves because outside of gyarados this team lacks a real offensive threat.



Mandibuzz @ rocky helmet

Nature: impish

Ability: overcoat

EV’s: 252 hp/ 252def/ 4 spdef

- roost

- defog

- whirlwind

- foul play


Team role: Defogger, physical tank, phaser


Bio: Wow what an amazing poke. I have absolutely no idea what this guy was doing in NU last gen, Honestly the only thing that got buffed for it this gen was overcoat, which really isn’t all that huge for it, This thing is an amazing wall. It’s typing is really great aswell this is another possible endgame poke for me as it can tank hits, and phase through the opponents to rack up rocks damage, throwing in a roost here and there, and letting the rocky helmet do work. Foul play is a great move in it’s own right allowing mandibuzz to hit hard against anything that is threatening, without having to invest any ev’s into attack, allowing me to maximize bulk.


Pros: Puts. In. Work. Great typing, good bulk

Cons Makes this teams electric type weakness a lot more obvious

Other options Skarm, zapdos, lati@s



Conkeldurr@assault vest

Nature: adament

Ability: Guts

EV’s: 252 hp/ 252 atk/ 4 spdef


- drain punch

- mach punch

- knock off

- ice punch

Team role: Status absorber, offensive presence

Bio: This was a perfect add to this team, allowing me to take the status moves that my opponents try to use since thy can’t do much with their moves, and it just adds fuel to this gorilla on steroid’s fire. Drain punch allows it to recover most of the damage lost due to the status, mach punch gives the team some much needed priority, and ice punch is a great coverage move.

Pros: great ability, plenty tanky, has priority

Cons: Slowwww

Other options: mienshao is interesting, It has regenerator and U-turn and it is pretty fast that kind of momentum might be very usefull on this team




Gyarados@gyaradosite

Nature: adamant

Ability: moxie / mold breaker

EV’s: 4 hp/ 252 atk/ 252 speed


- Dragon Dance

- Ice fang

- Waterfall

- Earthquake


Team role: Sweeper, capitalizer, punisher, the endgame


Bio: And allow me at last to introduce you to the queen of my chess board, the cream of my crop, the jewel in my crown. I present to you dancing-dos. The entire team is built to allow this lovely lady to switch in and take control. I play this poke like I play my queen in chess. It all begins in the team preview, I analyze the team and try to think of what my opponent will intend to do. If I see that my opponent is un prepared I lead with gyarados. If I see a counter or more, I save gyara for the endgame sweep that this team was designed to deliver. My first move out of the gate for gyarados is a dragon dance, More for the speed boost than the attack boost as gyarados already packs quite the punch. After the dance I allow moxie to put in work making me stronger and stronger, I only mega evolve when I am confronted with opposing rotom wash, so that I can slam them with a mold breaker eq to rock their world. Personally I would prefer not mega evolving gyarados at all if I can avoid it because the dark typing makes it weak to common fighting type priority, and the mega evolution is only used when needed. All in all this poke is intended to come into the game one time, and one time only and bring about the endgame.

Pros: great abilities in moxie and mold breaker both have their uses, moxie works well because the team will usually weaken the opponent significantly allowing dos to pick off the opponents one by one with increasing ease.

Cons: Prior to mega evolution it is weak to rocks, and the only way to remove rocks is a defog from skarmory which removes rocks on my opponents field, which gyarados really appreciates due to moxie.

Other options: I considered quite a few pokemon for this role all meant to do the same thing, infact when I sat down to type this on day one I had charizard X on the team, but inbetween testing and typing I found out that the 50% rock weakness was a deal breaker and gyarados’s moxie breaker ability combo was far superior. I also thought of using a scizor beings that this team lacks priority, but that would result in 3 fire weaknesses and I really didn’t like that.



Team in a nutshell – playstyle- threats- and concerns

This team is built around a synergistic regenerator core and several bulky pivots designed to take hits from several different types from both sides of the spectrum. It is designed around weakening the opponent to the point where I can safely bring in gyarados and allow the moxie boosts to rack up the damage and bring about an endgame.


Threats to this team are few and far between, really there is nothing that I have come across that can take out multiple members of my team on its own outside of bellyjet azumarill which is a problem for pretty much any team. I answer this with either tangrowth or skarmory but usually I will end up having to sack something or another. While not a true threat, rotom wash does prove to be an annoyance to this team, usually slowking and tangrowth can tag team the little guy but it usually ends up in one or both of them getting burned, which while being a neusance isn’t really detrimental to the team due to their passive healing


The major concerns That I have for this team are 1. A lack of offensive presence outside of mega gyarados. And 2. A lack of priority moves making me vulnerable to sweeps (it is yet to happen but it is one of my biggest fears at the moment)


Threats

Jolteon – faster than whole team and stab t-bolt hits hard

Mega venusaur- Seriously how do you kill this thing

Mixed megachomp- If I can figure out the set early on it’s not to big of a problem but if it catches me by surprise it can wreck havoc.



Well that’s it for the rmt, I hope you enjoyed it and I highly appreciate any help or advice that can be given to me
 
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Star

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One question.

For a grass/water Regen core, why would you go Tangrowth/Slowking with Amoonguss/Slowbro available? Amoonguss has access to Spore and has an additional resistance to fairies.
 
One question.

For a grass/water Regen core, why would you go Tangrowth/Slowking with Amoonguss/Slowbro available? Amoonguss has access to Spore and has an additional resistance to fairies.
Hmmm, this is a viable point, I guess I’ll have to try that I suppose, I liked tangrowth because it was such a monster but if that core is viable I can see myself switching, spore is definitely nice I’ll look into that, my main problem would be I kinda wanted the water type to be my special defensive because of the common rotom wash but I should be able ot play around that thanks for the advice star.
 
Hmmm, this is a viable point, I guess I’ll have to try that I suppose, I liked tangrowth because it was such a monster but if that core is viable I can see myself switching, spore is definitely nice I’ll look into that, my main problem would be I kinda wanted the water type to be my special defensive because of the common rotom wash but I should be able ot play around that thanks for the advice star.
Ok so after reading that suggestion I went ahead an checked on bulbapedia and looked at the stats and movesets, In my opinion tangrowth far outclasses amoongus , although amoongus has better mixed bulk, tangrowth is in the team as a purely physical wall, and slowking is better than slowbro in terms of bulk on its respective side of the spectrum due to assault vest These two have worked really well for me and I have not had much luck with mixed walls in the past, so while not completely out of the picture I am highly towards tangrowth and slowking but I am here for advice so I will test those two out
 
Hmmm, this is a viable point, I guess I’ll have to try that I suppose, I liked tangrowth because it was such a monster but if that core is viable I can see myself switching, spore is definitely nice I’ll look into that, my main problem would be I kinda wanted the water type to be my special defensive because of the common rotom wash but I should be able ot play around that thanks for the advice star.
But Amoonguss can handle Rotom-W better than Slowking
 
Offensive presence, you say. Then let's change Gliscor.
Eir (Gliscor) (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
First thing you do is change her to female. Actually change your whole team to female. You don't want your whole team crippled by Rivalry Haxorus (rare, but still) or Cute Charm Milotic. Toxic Orb and Poison Heal is pretty self-explanatory.
Change as you see fit. The Smogon EV set you're using is not very effective in current OU, as tons of other things outspeed her and you probably need different defensive EVs to fit her role. Preferably some Attack EVs for her moves below.
Imipish Nature
Nothing to say about this one.
- Toxic
- Protect
- Substitute
- Earthquake
Ah.
Aha.
This is a standard stalling Gliscor set, which would be fine if you didn't need more offensive presence, which you do.
I suggest this:
- Fling
- Acrobatics
- Ice Fang
- Thunder Fang
You should have no problem with this; since you're running a pivot team, switch her in on a NVE move, get the Toxic status then Fling the Orb at the opponent. Acrobatics for abusing Fling, ThunderFang + IceFang for pseudo BoltBeam. Both are debatable however, you could swap them out for moves that would help your team more.

Hope I helped, if I sounded like an idiot, don't worry, it's normal. It just means I haven't taken my daily meth dose
 
Do you realize that a core of Genesect and Rotom Wash basically demolishes this team? It won't be as much if a problem when Genesect is banned, though.
In that event, Scizor + Rotom Wash + something that kills Tangrowth
 
Offensive presence, you say. Then let's change Gliscor.

First thing you do is change her to female. Actually change your whole team to female. You don't want your whole team crippled by Rivalry Haxorus (rare, but still) or Cute Charm Milotic. Toxic Orb and Poison Heal is pretty self-explanatory.

Change as you see fit. The Smogon EV set you're using is not very effective in current OU, as tons of other things outspeed her and you probably need different defensive EVs to fit her role. Preferably some Attack EVs for her moves below.

Nothing to say about this one.

Ah.
Aha.
This is a standard stalling Gliscor set, which would be fine if you didn't need more offensive presence, which you do.
I suggest this:

You should have no problem with this; since you're running a pivot team, switch her in on a NVE move, get the Toxic status then Fling the Orb at the opponent. Acrobatics for abusing Fling, ThunderFang + IceFang for pseudo BoltBeam. Both are debatable however, you could swap them out for moves that would help your team more.

Hope I helped, if I sounded like an idiot, don't worry, it's normal. It just means I haven't taken my daily meth dose
One of the most hilarious rates ever written
 

Idyll

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Hey there! ^_^

First of all, this team is pretty much demolished by Kyurem-B, especially by it's best set Sub+3 Attacks. It OHKO's or 2HKO's your entire team and outspeeds. Everyone on your team just tickles it. With this reason, I suggest you use AssVest Conkeldurr over Gliscor. He can provide offence, and more. It has Knock Off, priority in Mach Punch, and recovery in Drain Punch, so you won't be losing much. This guy is a good check to an otherwise huge threat to the team. He's also tanky enough to take hits. He also absorbs status like Gliscor.

Now, if you replace Gliscor, you'd want Toxic somewhere else for passive damage. I'd say put Toxic over Earth Power on Heatran. There's no notable threats that you hit with it, really, at least not on top of my head. You really want to rack up that passive damage while stonewalling the enemy.

Other than that, there's really nothing wrong with this team in my eyes.^_^

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Adamant | 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
 
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You have no way at breaking past Mandibuzz, probably one of the best Physical walls in the Metagame. As someone who uses Mega-Gyarados, I can safely verify that, as even a +2 Adamant 252 Atk Mega-Gyarados Ice Fang does around 60-70%. Which means it still has enough health to Whirlwind you out, or cripple you. Your best bet is to somehow get a Toxic off with Gliscor, or hope for a Freeze with Slowking, but other than that a healthy Mandibuzz isn't really something Mega-Gyarados can break through. You'd need to have it siginificantly weakened from the rest of the match, and somehow create enough offesnive pressure to get to +2 ( Actually, you'd need +3), which is rare.
 
Starmie and Greninja destroy this team. I would recommend Amoongus>Tangrowth and Slowbro>Slowking. The Slowbro should use Lefties because it's a physical wall you would be using it as, not a tank. Amoongus deals with the common HP Ghost on Keldeo, most waters, the Ice Punch +Knock Off AV Conkeldurr this team is weak to, and most other common waters/electrics/Fightings. Slowbro takes care of the numerous other things you are destroyed by with this team.
 

alexwolf

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Change physically defensive Tangrowth + Slowking to Assault Vest Tangrowth + Slowbro, as both Pokemon are superior to the ones you are using atm. Just try them out for a bit and you will get what i mean. Also, your team is very weak to Shadow Ball spam from Aegislash, a problem which AV Tangrowth fixes nicely, as well as Manaphy, which is countered by AV Tangrowth too.

You already have a solid defensive core with Slowbro + Tangrowth + Heatran, so it's time to focus on offense. Replace Gliscor with mixed Kyurem-B, as a way to get past stall teams and soften up the opponent's team so that Mega Gyarados can clean up easier. Also, replace Skarmory with physically defensive Zapdos, which is a much better Defog user and counters Bisharp, a huge threat to your team without Gliscor.

Here are the sets:

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Nature: Sassy
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Rock

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Nature: Bold
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Slack Off

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Lonely
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Hidden Power Rock on Tangrowth and Psychic on Slowbro so that you can always break the Substitute of Kyu-B, a huge threat to your team.

Finally, replace AncientPower with Toxic on Heatran, which allows it to beat Unaware CM Clefable, and is a much more useful move than AncientPower in general, while still crippling Pokemon such as Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y, and Volcarona.

Good luck with your team!
 
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Hey there! ^_^

First of all, this team is pretty much demolished by Kyurem-B, especially by it's best set Sub+3 Attacks. It OHKO's or 2HKO's your entire team and outspeeds. Everyone on your team just tickles it. With this reason, I suggest you use AssVest Conkeldurr over Gliscor. He can provide offence, and more. It has Knock Off, priority in Mach Punch, and recovery in Drain Punch, so you won't be losing much. This guy is a good check to an otherwise huge threat to the team. He's also tanky enough to take hits. He also absorbs status like Gliscor.

Now, if you replace Gliscor, you'd want Toxic somewhere else for passive damage. I'd say put Toxic over Earth Power on Heatran. There's no notable threats that you hit with it, really, at least not on top of my head. You really want to rack up that passive damage while stonewalling the enemy.

Other than that, there's really nothing wrong with this team in my eyes.^_^

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Adamant | 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
Now this here is really usefull i will try this immediately
Change physically defensive Tangrowth + Slowking to Assault Vest Tangrowth + Slowbro, as both Pokemon are superior to the ones you are using atm. Just try them out for a bit and you will get what i mean. Also, your team is very weak to Shadow Ball spam from Aegislash, a problem which AV Tangrowth fixes nicely, as well as Manaphy, which is countered by AV Tangrowth too.

You already have a solid defensive core with Slowbro + Tangrowth + Heatran, so it's time to focus on offense. Replace Gliscor with mixed Kyurem-B, as a way to get past stall teams and soften up the opponent's team so that Mega Gyarados can clean up easier. Also, replace Skarmory with physically defensive Zapdos, which is a much better Defog user and counters Bisharp, a huge threat to your team without Gliscor.

Here are the sets:

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Nature: Sassy
- Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Rock

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Nature: Bold
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Slack Off

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Lonely
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Hidden Power Rock on Tangrowth and Psychic on Slowbro so that you can always break the Substitute of Kyu-B, a huge threat to your team.

Finally, replace AncientPower with Toxic on Heatran, which allows it to beat Unaware CM Clefable, and is a much more useful move than AncientPower in general, while still crippling Pokemon such as Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y, and Volcarona.

Good luck with your team!
ok ok fine i will try mixed walls slowbro and tangrowth, In my head i think that dedicating them to their respective strong suits is better but i will try them as i have gotten a lot of those suggestions, I will also try out zapdos right now i am currently testing conk over gliscor and if that fails to impress i will try that kyurem set thanks alot guys
 

alexwolf

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I didn't suggest mixed wall Slowbro, only AV Tangrowth. And you do play each of them to its strengths by using max SpD and AV on Tangrowth, as it walls a big number of special threats. As for Slowbro, he is a physical wall, so you are also playing him to his respective strentgh.
 
you have ancient power on heatran for talonflame, but no talonflame is going to stay in on a heatran, or switch in on a heatran. switch it out for something like toxic or protect, or even another coverage move like HP grass to catch gastrodons or rotoms off guard
 
I recommend everything that alexwolf says. THANK YOU FOR USING AV TANGROWTH, SINCE ITS tHE ONLY THING THAT CAN TAKE HITS FROM MIXED MEGACHOMP

on a more serious note, try stone edge on heatran, since it does more to talonflame, which I'm sure is what you put ancient power there for

also gigadrain > power whip, because too many rotoms are floating around these days

for the kyurem black set that was recommended, try the sub set with leftovers and 3 attacks (fusion bolt, ice beam + earth power)
 
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alexwolf

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If you go with Slowbro, you don't need a Rock move on Heatran as Slowbro counters Talonflame anyway.
 

Inspirited

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If you go with Slowbro, you don't need a Rock move on Heatran as Slowbro counters Talonflame anyway.
There is one problem with this statement as Swords Dance Talonflame easily muscles it's way through Slowbro

+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 211-250 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Especially with the new Rotom Wrecker set even though it doesn't need this to get through Slowbro

+2 252+ Atk Liechi Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Grass) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 236-278 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Just saying, A Heatran with a rock move would be nice as it handles the 2 most over centralizing pokes in the meta right now(don't believe me, look at the top ten) being Talonflame and Excadrill.

There may be an exception because Talonflame could be running Heatran Hitter

+2 252+ Atk Shuca Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (80 BP Ground) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 532-628 (137.8 - 162.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 

alexwolf

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There is one problem with this statement as Swords Dance Talonflame easily muscles it's way through Slowbro

+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 211-250 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Especially with the new Rotom Wrecker set even though it doesn't need this to get through Slowbro

+2 252+ Atk Liechi Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Grass) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 236-278 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Just saying, A Heatran with a rock move would be nice as it handles the 2 most over centralizing pokes in the meta right now(don't believe me, look at the top ten) being Talonflame and Excadrill.

There may be an exception because Talonflame could be running Heatran Hitter

+2 252+ Atk Shuca Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (80 BP Ground) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 532-628 (137.8 - 162.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So, Slowbro tanks the +2 BB and KOes back with Scald after the BB recoil. Still a perfect counter, and the situational Liechi Berry Natural Gift Talonflame can be walled by Toxic Heatran anyway.
 

Star

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Rock moves on Heatran don't make sense as no Talonflame is retarded enough to stay in on you anyway. Slowbro is a perfect counter unless the Talonflame is at +4 which shouldn't happen anyway.
 

Inspirited

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Your right about Toxic Heatran walling anything but the Shuca berry set I mentioned, But in my experience with Slowbro, talonflame tends to get +2 on the switch, nets +4 while tanking a scald and then proceeds to KO with either Natural gift(saving itself) or takes Slowbro down with itself with brave bird. Idk I just don't think Slowbro is a good blind switch if the bird hasn't been properly scouted. The Heatran works though. I completely neglected toxic as I normally run roar over it.
 
There is one problem with this statement as Swords Dance Talonflame easily muscles it's way through Slowbro

+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 211-250 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Especially with the new Rotom Wrecker set even though it doesn't need this to get through Slowbro

+2 252+ Atk Liechi Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Grass) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 236-278 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Just saying, A Heatran with a rock move would be nice as it handles the 2 most over centralizing pokes in the meta right now(don't believe me, look at the top ten) being Talonflame and Excadrill.

There may be an exception because Talonflame could be running Heatran Hitter

+2 252+ Atk Shuca Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (80 BP Ground) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 532-628 (137.8 - 162.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
... how do rock moves counter excadrill? and why would i want heatran to counter excadrill,it's 4x week to the thing's stab

on another note, conkeldur is working well, as is zapdos, but i was thinking about running a U-turn, fake out, knock off, high jump kick mienshao, to help with the terrible slowness of this team aswell as to provide some much needed momentum, any thoughts?
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
... how do rock moves counter excadrill? and why would i want heatran to counter excadrill,it's 4x week to the thing's stab

on another note, conkeldur is working well, as is zapdos, but i was thinking about running a U-turn, fake out, knock off, high jump kick mienshao, to help with the terrible slowness of this team aswell as to provide some much needed momentum, any thoughts?
Whoops I me ant genesect sorry dude, and Heatran is a stop to genesect anyway unless hp ground happens.
 

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