Gyarados (QC 1/3)

[boltsandbombers]

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QC: AM / /
GP: /
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Taken over from TheEnder
Original analysis by Muk here

Overview
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• Gained a significantly stronger Dark-type stab in crunch, greatly enhancing its role as a dragon dance user backed by its incredible attack stat and solid speed
• Extremely bulky for an offensive pokemon and packs a useful slew of resistances in both formes
• Versatile in that it can excel in an offensive or defensive role on a team
• Gyarados's defensive typing also allows it to play a defensive role, checking threats such as landorus and mega charizard Y
• Limited but useful coverage movepool
• Very prone to residual damage, particularly stealth rock, which can often hinder its offensive capabilities
• Quite slow unboosted, outsped by common offensive pokemon

Offensive Dragon Dance
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name: Offensive Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Waterfall / Earthquake
move 4: Substitute / Taunt / Earthquake
ability: Intimidate
item: Gyaradosite
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly / Adamant

Moves
========

• Dragon dance boosts gyarados's attack and speed to high levels, allowing it to outspeed the entire unboosted meta
• Crunch is a strong stab move that deals heavy damage after a boost, and is necessary to hit the bulky psychic types in the tier such as slowbro, celebi, jirachi, and mew
• Waterfall is a secondary stab move that hits fire, fairy, and fighting types such as heatran, clefable, talonflame, conkleldurr, sylveon,
• substitute avoids status from the likes of mega sableye, rotom-w, mew, slowbro (really ballsy ones) and amoonguss, as well as leech seed from ferrothon and mega venusaur all at the cost of a quarter of gyarados's hp. Substitute also helps give protection against revenge killers.
• Alternatively, taunt can be used to prevent defensive pokemon such as ferrothorn and mew from recovering while not chipping away at gyarados's hp
• Earthquake is an option over waterfall, substitute, or taunt, which targets rotom-w and keldeo

Set Details
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• max attack max speed standard offensive mon
• jolly to outspeed mega lop, mega manectric, mega sceptile, and mega bee after a boost
• adamant can be used for more power if outspeeding those threats is not necessary

Usage Tips
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• Finding the correct time to set up a dragon dance is key. Thanks to gyarados's outstanding bulk, there are a multitude of pokemon that it can set up on. However, note that it is extremely important to wear down gyarados's checks, such as keldeo / azumarill / breloom / etc
• Some examples of what gyarados can set up on include either a latios or latias's draco meteor (preferably when they are at -2 special attack, but gyarados can easily chew a draco from latios provided it is at 80% hp or above), choice specs raikou locked into hidden power ice, shadow ball, or extrasensory, bisharp lacking low kick, starmie lacking thunderbolt (provided you skillfully avoid the scald burn), magnteon / magnzeon locked into flash cannon or hidden power fire, a victni choice locked into v-create or zen headbutt, as well as pokemon that gyarados forces out with its stab move such as hippowdon, gliscor, celebi, etc
• In addition, finding the time to mega evolve is important to keep in mind, as keeping gyarados's flying type can give it useful immunities and resistances to check pokemon such as exadrill, landorus, and conkeldurr

Team Options
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• Healing wish support from the likes of jirachi, latias, and celebi is extremely helpful due to how gyarados gets quickly worn down from residual damage and status conditions (rocks, iron barbs, twave)
• Entry hazard removal is also important, as keeping gyarados healthy before setting up is crucial. Latias fulfills both of these roles and has solid type synergy. Excadrill
• Wallbreakers such as choice specs raikou, dragalge, choice band azumarill, choice band victini, etc. Dragalge sets up toxic spikes to wear down gyarado's checks and counters, such as keldeo and chesnaught and can also hit (or lure I guess) ferrothorn with HP Fire, while also checking keldeo. Azumarill also checks keldeo and smacks ferrothorn with superpower so that Gyarados doesn't have to take as much residual damage from iron barbs. kyurem-b also pressures most if not all of gyarados's checks (skarm, rotom-w, chesnuaght, etc) and can lure in some of gyarados's checks like ferrothorn with hp fire or clefable with iron head

Bulky Dragon Dance
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name: Bulky Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Bounce
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Substitute / Taunt
ability: Intimidate
item: Leftovers
evs: 88 HP / 220 Atk / 4 Def / 196 Spe
nature: Jolly / Adamant

Moves
========

• Dragon dance boosts attack and speed
• Bounce is a relatively strong stab move and hits the fighting types that gyarados checks, has solid coverage alongside waterfall, and sports a nifty paralysis chance
  
• Waterfall is a strong stab move that hits hard after a boost and forms a paraflinch combo with bounce :^]
• substitute avoids status from the likes of mega sableye, rotom-w, mew, gliscor, heatran, slowbro (really ballsy ones) and amoonguss, as well as leech seed from ferrothon and mega venusaur all at the cost of a quarter of gyarados's hp

Set Details
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• The given Ev spread prevents gyarados's substitutes from being broken by a burned ferrothorns power whip (there is definitely a better spread)
• leftovers are important for passive recovery
• Intimidate is the chosen to soften up physical attacks from the likes of excadrill, talonflame, and

Usage Tips
========

• The choice between substitute and taunt decide which defensive pokemon gyarados can set up on. With taunt, gyarados is more susceptible to dragon tail and burns from scald or lava plume. However, substitute leaves gyarados vulnerable to roar
• If taunt is used gyarados can prevent defensive pokemon from functioning such as skarmory
• Set up a substitute when anticipating a status move from pokemon such as mew or slowbro, or set a dragon dance when gyara forces out an opposing pokemon with its stab move such as hippowdon ort excadrill
• dont miss bounce or you will be sad :[

Team Options
========

• Entry hazard removal is very helpful to give gyarados more breathing room when setting up, thus, pokemon such as excadrill, latios, latias, and starmie (can weaken rotom-w and lure in ferrothorn with hp fire so gyarados doesnt have to take all the residual damage from iron barbs make for good teammates
• Healing wish support from pokemon such as latias, celebi, jirachi, and clefable (seems cool) is gr8 to give gyarados a second chance at sweeping and heal off status conditions
• due to the fact that gyarados cannot break through certain defensive pokemon such as unaware clefable and quagsire to a lesser extent, teammates to switch into, lure or pressure them such as mega venusaur, heatran (power herb solarbeam tran forms a nasty duo with this set to lure in quag and rotom-w), etc
• bulky ground types such as excadrill, hippowdon, and garchomp make for great partners to patch up gyarados's electric and rock weaknesses
• landorus-t is a solid teammate to lure in / weaken / cripple bulky water types such as slowbro and rotom-w with an explosion or the occasional toxic
• wallbreakers are great teammates, examples include kyurem-b, azumarill, hydreigon, dragalge, etc

Defensive
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name: Defensive
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Thunder Wave / Roar / Dragon Tail
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
ability: Intimidate
item: Leftovers
evs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpD
nature: Careful

Moves
========

• Waterfall is a decently powerful stab move that still hits relatively hard uninvested, and is a necessary stab move to hit the pokemon that gyarados checks such as landorus and volcarona
• Alternatively, scald is considerably weaker but is nice to cripple switch ins with a burn - obviously should not be used with thunder wave or dragon tail due to conflicting natures as the chip damage is pretty important
• Thunder Wave cripples fast offensive pokemon such as mega zard y, mega metagross, latios, etc
• Roar phases setup sweepers such as sub cm keldeo, dragon dance charizard x, rock polish / calm mind landorus, opposing gyarados, while dragon tail gets off chip damage in the same
• Rest allows gyarados to heal off damage taken, and cures it of status conditions
• Sleep talk prevents gyarados from being

Set Details
========

• 248 to switch into sr 4 times
• leftovers because recovery
• 104 def to avoid 2hko from jolly mega metagross's zen headbutt after rocks, allowing gyarados to rest off the damage or cripple it with thunder wave
• rest in spdef to take hits from the likes of landorus and mega zard y

Usage Tips
========

• With maximum special defensive investment, gyarados acts as an excellent pivot into various attackers that it is meant to check such as landorus, mega charizard y, volcarona, keldeo, and scizor
• Also, with intimidate, gyarados can act as a soft check to some physically based threats such as mega metagross lacking thunderpunch, talonflame, conkeldurr, scizor, and mamoswine lacking freeze dry
• Gyarados should directly switch into said threats and either cripple a foe with thunder wave or shuffle around the opposing team with roar or dragon tail
• Usage of Rest and Sleep Talk is rather simple; Rest should be used to heal Gyarados and dispose it of any status ailments, and Sleep Talk should be used while asleep. These two moves also allow Gyarados to switch into and absorb status moves.

Team Options
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• Bulky ground-types make for great teammates to cover gyarados's electric and rock weaknesses, good examples include hippowdon, excadrill, garchomp - these all can provide stealth rock support to rack up damage with
• Spikes and toxic spikes from the likes of ferrothorn (outstanding type synergy with gyarados and also provides stealth rock support), chesnaught (counters bisharp which is a nuisance for gyarados because intimidate gives the defiant boost), tentacruel, and dragalge works well in tandem with Gyarados's phazing
• Entry hazard removal from pokemon such as the aforementioned tentacruel and excadrill as well as zapdos make for good teammates in order to keep gyarados healthy to check
• Bulky grass types such as amoonguss, mega venusaur, and celebi make for good teammates as they cover each other's weaknesses fairly well.

Other Options
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• Ice Fang for mega altaria
• RestTalk DD
• stone edge hits kyurem-b and zapdos somewhat harder
• natural gift with either liechi to provide a grass type attack to hit rotom-w, azumarill, slowbro as well as raising gyarados's attack by one stage when it reaches low hp or a cheri berry to avoid paralysis from the likes of thundurus and a fire type attack for ferrothorn and scizor (I guess)
• offensive dd 3 attacks set with moxie and lum

Checks & Counters
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• fighting types, mainly for mega dd because it, (particularly chesnaught and keldeo - both handle the mega dd set while keldeo can be setup fodder for bulky dd if it doesnt get a scald burn also needs hp electric to revenge, chesnaught and breloom can revenge kill the mega dd set with mach punch but gyarados only needs a bit of prior damage to ko conkeldurr with +1 waterfall and the bulky dd set can avoid brelooms spore with sub or taunt
• Electric types such as rotom-w, mega manectric, raikou, and thundurus can check an unboosted gyarados
• general physically bulky pokemon - skarmory (phases with whirlwind or hits hard with counter, although the former is stopped by taunt), rotom-w can succumb to a +1 crunch after some prior damage and deal solid damage and gain momentum with volt switch or cripple gyarados with will-o-wisp but that can be avoided with sub or taunt, tankchomp
• revenge killers - talonflame, mach punch from previously stated fighting types, scarf lando-t, scarf kyurem-b, scarf terrak (?),
• status - priority twave from thundurus and klefki
• residual damage - stealth rock, spikes, iron barbs, etc
• fairy-types, particularly mega altaria (only really fears ice fang but takes a decent chunk from boosted eq or bounce) and azumarill (gets worn down fairly quickly and also is hit relatively hard by bounce / eq

 

[Albacore]

Tiny detail but bumping the defense investment up to 112 on the defensive set lets you live 2 Returns from Adamant Mega Lopunny after SR. It's only 8 EVs so you really lose nothing on the SpD side.

I personally find Scald to be better than Waterfall on the defensive set. RestTalk Gyarados isn't really supposed to be dealing damage, and the ability to cripple switchins thanks to Scald can help a ton. Also mention Dragon Dance on the set since it enables Gyarados to act as a bulky wincon, similarly to Suicune (this goes without saying but Waterfall should be used if you run DD as opposed to Scald)

Mention Bulky Garchomp somewhere in C&C since it forces MGyarados to go down to rocky helmet + rough skin recoil. Also mention Fairy types somewhere in C&C, specifically, mention Altaria and Azumarill. I'd maybe mention MLopunny in C&C since it can (barely) survive +1 Jolly Waterfall and outspeeds Adamant variants.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

After crunching a few numbers, I'd like to toss out a suggestion for a 104 HP / 196 Atk / 12 SpD / 196 Spe spread. You've still got an HP stat divisible by 4 plus 1, so you can make 5 Subs from full health like the 88 HP spread. This spread also prevents uninvested Mega Sableye from breaking your Substitute with a -1 Knock Off or +0 Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse, which lets you set up on it more effectively. Of course, this is less useful if you're running Taunt > Substitute, but it still gets that general bulk + power + speed that Gyarados loves.

 

[AM]

Just a minor note discussed with QC.

On the defensive set have Scald in moves but not slashed. The weak special attack from Scald makes it have no real offensive presence and makes Gyarados more set up fodder based on the previous point.

QC 1/3 after that's been changed.

 

[Sergi]

just want to share some opinions n.n

i personally think waterfall is still the best stab u got, and i would make it the first attacking option, i mean: wfall + crunch double stab + great neutral coverage except few things; wfall + eq gives you a good stab + eq covering most resist (waters, latios, ferro, etc); crunch + eq gives stab + eq overlaps a bit, i mean you hits keld, sharp, ttar, fairies, but you lose the super effective hit on bulky grounds like landot or hippo which is annoying consedering gorunds are all over the place. i'm not a big of taunt since sub is more useful to set up on offensive stuff and sub is better to avoid status consedering scald/lava are everywhere, i guess taunt helps more vs stall shit like quag and phazers like skarm but still most of them run counter so they can force you out or beat you if stay, also vs opposing taunters but since you beat the common ones (scor tran talon mew gar etc) is useless. i personally would make the slash look like this:
- dd
- wfall
- crunch / eq
- sub / eq
mentioning in moves or even slashing too crunch > wfall as first attack, and taunt and ice fang (hits hard m altaria and tankchomp, who otherwise you are gonna take a lot of recoil from since only 2hko + eq/dtail, with the bonus of hitting harder nite, mvenu, amoon, landot, not much but not terrible imo) as options for last slot.

i don't like at all max max on m gyara consedering its titanic bulk and some hp investment can be ver helpful, even more with jolly since you dont need max speed. but since its an analysis i guess its okay.

that's all. hope i helped :)

 

[aim]

Mention lando-t as a partner to mega gyra, luring in rotom-w/bulky waters like bro and threatening them out/setting up on them.

 

[boltsandbombers]

just want to share some opinions n.n

i personally think waterfall is still the best stab u got, and i would make it the first attacking option, i mean: wfall + crunch double stab + great neutral coverage except few things; wfall + eq gives you a good stab + eq covering most resist (waters, latios, ferro, etc); crunch + eq gives stab + eq overlaps a bit, i mean you hits keld, sharp, ttar, fairies, but you lose the super effective hit on bulky grounds like landot or hippo which is annoying consedering gorunds are all over the place. i'm not a big of taunt since sub is more useful to set up on offensive stuff and sub is better to avoid status consedering scald/lava are everywhere, i guess taunt helps more vs stall shit like quag and phazers like skarm but still most of them run counter so they can force you out or beat you if stay, also vs opposing taunters but since you beat the common ones (scor tran talon mew gar etc) is useless. i personally would make the slash look like this:
- dd
- wfall
- crunch / eq
- sub / eq
mentioning in moves or even slashing too crunch > wfall as first attack, and taunt and ice fang (hits hard m altaria and tankchomp, who otherwise you are gonna take a lot of recoil from since only 2hko + eq/dtail, with the bonus of hitting harder nite, mvenu, amoon, landot, not much but not terrible imo) as options for last slot.

i don't like at all max max on m gyara consedering its titanic bulk and some hp investment can be ver helpful, even more with jolly since you dont need max speed. but since its an analysis i guess its okay.

that's all. hope i helped :)

Hm. I agree that taunt is quite inferior and I'm moving it down to moves as opposed to a slash but I feel that crunch is super important to break through mons like (mega) slowbro [reallly big one here], celebi, mew to an extent, etc. Also max speed is necessary to outspeed mega sceptile / mega bee / mega lop after a boost given that the main nature is jolly. If you have a different speed benchmark that I can mention in SD for when adamant is chosen lmk.

Mention lando-t as a partner to mega gyra, luring in rotom-w/bulky waters like bro and threatening them out/setting up on them.

I'll add it, but dont you think that lando-t would be a better teammate for the bulky dd set? From what I interpreted lando-t is luring in rotom-w with explosion or toxic (idk), but this is significantly more important for the bulky dd set imo since it has so much more trouble with rotom-w and slowbro to an extent while mega gyara destroys slowbro / mega slowbro and can play around rotom-w's wisp with taunt or sub.

 

[AM]

The slashes on the Offensive Dragon Dance set are fine. It was already discussed amongst QC and had there been a necessity to move them around we would've conveyed with what we agreed upon. We agreed upon that set after discussion debating on the merits of its orders and the order is fine as is.

 

[SparksBlade]

so rude bolts :(
btw, i kind of skimmed through it and there are a couple similar typos, idk if they're all intentional or not but im scared of you i guess you already know so i'll leave you to it. Could be cos you took it over rather than start it yourself.
On the bulky DD set, in the set details

The given Ev spread prevents gyarados's substitutes from being broken by a burned ferrothorns power whip (there is definitely a better spread)

this "better spread", since we dont know it, could you mention what it achieves?

substitute avoids status from the likes of mega sableye, rotom-w, mew, gliscor, heatran, slowbro (really ballsy ones) and amoonguss, as well as leech seed from ferrothon and mega venusaur all at the cost of a quarter of gyarados's hp

imo there's no need to mention every status user in the tier. Maybe you could mention that sub allows it to live a volt switch from rotom-w when your opp is trying to predict a switch. idk if i was clear with this but i hope you get it.

e: k i think it could be worded to tell that sub allows you to stay in and keep w/e boosts you got rather than be forced out and lose momentum. This should explain what i want to say.

 

[boltsandbombers]

so rude bolts :(
btw, i kind of skimmed through it and there are a couple similar typos, idk if they're all intentional or not but im scared of you i guess you already know so i'll leave you to it. Could be cos you took it over rather than start it yourself.
On the bulky DD set, in the set details

this "better spread", since we dont know it, could you mention what it achieves?

imo there's no need to mention every status user in the tier. Maybe you could mention that sub allows it to live a volt switch from rotom-w when your opp is trying to predict a switch. idk if i was clear with this but i hope you get it.

e: k i think it could be worded to tell that sub allows you to stay in and keep w/e boosts you got rather than be forced out and lose momentum. This should explain what i want to say.

The thing about the "better spread" was more of an open ended question, because I don't know it at all.
About the status thing, I don't think that it should be generalized, but I'll remove some of the mentions. The volt switch thing is a good point, ty.

 

[Steve Angello]

Hey you should mention Celebi and electric types as good partners for the defensive sets, because they share a good typing and cover their weaks. Hazards and a pursuiter are good teammates as well. Otherwise good. n_n

 

[Steve Angello]

I am talking about the sleeptalk set, which likes to have hazards on the opponents field. You want to get more extra damage with hazards and dragon tail, so you can use a spinblocker and a pursuiter. The pursuiter is great for the lati twins.

 

[Jukain]

Wait, where'd the Taunt slash go? Taunt is still a good option on Mega Gyarados to prevent phazing and also prevent Ferrothorn from getting off anything against Gyarados. Should be slashed.

 

[boltsandbombers]

dont usually like to do this, bumping
also can I give iron head a moves mention on mega gyara? Albacore brought it up in the viability rankings thread and I didnt even know it learned that, +1 iron head ohkoes mega altaria and also hits other fairies and kyurem-b which is pretty cool.

 

[Alfalfa]

There is no mention of Kyurem-B in team options, it breaks most of Mega Gyarados' defensive checks, such as Chesnaught, Skarmory, bulky Garchomp, and if running Hidden Power Fire, Ferrothorn.

 

[Ptyra]

For the Bulky DD set, I suggest the following spread : 88 HP / 184 Atk / 28 SpD / 208 Spe (with Jolly nature of course)

The HP and SpD EVs allow Gyarados's Sub not being broken by Mega Sableye's Shadow Ball, and the repartition is the most optimal for bulk (104 SpD EVs or 136 HP otherwise).
The Speed EVs make Gyarados faster than Jolly Mega Heracross, an important target because Gyarados is one of the few semi-reliable switch-in Mega Heracross.