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Hail Stall

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Lady Bug, Aug 27, 2009.

  1. Lady Bug

    Lady Bug 砂漠 ☆彡 King of the Desert ☆彡 砂漠
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,223
    Team Hail Stall

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction:

    The main idea of this team is just stalling stuff with Toxic Spikes + Hail damage. I started this team as a UU team, later on Manaphy was the Suspect, and I thought a Hail team would be a good option for a Suspect team, so I replaced some Pokemon (like Blissey over Flareon) and tested it on the Suspect ladder. It did pretty good .I tested it on the Standard ladder later, and it just did as good as it did on the Suspect ladder, so I decided to make it my "main team". Voting on Stage 3 is soon and the Metagame will change for sure after that, I don't think this team will work in that Metagame, so I decided to make a RMT about this team.


    The Team:


    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP/32 Spd/224 SDef
    Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Leech Seed
    - Blizzard
    - Protect
    - Wood Hammer
    ---


    Every Hail team must have an Abomasnow, of course. It is very important for this team, not just because of Hail, I need it for things like Calm Mind Latias with Refresh (I Leech Seed them and go to Blissey) and to take Trick from Latias, if they have it, so basically this is my inetial switch-in for Latias .I also use it to counter stuff like the Dragon Dance/Heal bell/Dragon Claw/Roost Dragonite. 32 Speed EV's are to outspeed Swampert leads, most of the time people stay in with Swampert against Abomasnow excepting me to use Substitute or something, so its really helpful. Against sleep moves users I go to one of my RestTalkers to absorb it, unless its Roserade, I go to Blissey and let them setup Toxic Spikes on me, because I don't really care about Toxic Spikes, Nioqueen will absorb them anyway. Against Azelf leads I just go to Rotom and kill them, and some leads like Aerodactyl, or others who can't really "touch" Hitmontop, I just go to Hitmontop against them and spin the rocks.




    [​IMG]
    Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP/188 Def/12 Spd/56 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Roar
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest
    - Waterfall
    ---


    Gyrados is really important for this team. Its my only phazer, and Fire resistnace, I need it to wall things like Infernape. I had Walrein over this before, but later I realized how much I need a phazer and an Infernape counter, so I decided to use Gyrados. You might notice that I have Careful natue with some SDef EV's, I use Careful to live a Draco Meteor from any MixMence, classic version or the new version, after Stealth Rock, it also helps to take Grass Knot's from Infernape better. Gyrados works as a Lucario counter (the Stone Edgeless versions) Nidoqueen dies first most of the time, so if it dies, Gyrados will be my only counter to Lucario I can switch it on Scizor's U-turn's every time, too, they don't have Stealth Rock most of the time on the field with that Hitmontop, so I can switch it on Scizor a lot, and Scizor loses around 24% of its health every time they send it in (thanks to Stealth Rock and Protect on Abomasnow and Blissey, they can't really switch Scizor on something else). 12 Speed EV's to outspeed the other Roar Gyrados's.




    [​IMG]
    Nidoqueen (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Poison Point
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 SDef
    Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Stealth Rock
    ---


    Nidoqueen is my main Lucario counter, and my Trick absorber. I chose Nidoqueen over other Ground Pokemon like Swamper and Hippowdon (of course I won't pick Hippowdon since this is a Hail team), because it learns Toxic Spikes and Fire Blast, Toxic Spikes are needed for this team, so I can stall things like Blissey and Celebi. Fire Blast is for Forretress and the bulky Sword Dance Scizor's. I also use Nidoqueen to counter Machamp who is really annoying for Stall teams,I switch Hitmontop/Gyrados first for Intimidate and go to Nidoqueen, so they don't do a lot to Nidoqueen with Machamp. Nidoqueen is my Heracross counter, too (especially the Sword Dance versions, Gyrados can't take Stone Edges and Rotom can't take Night Slash's). I used to have Black Sludge over Leftovers, but the Trick users always tricked Black Sludge to Blissey, which costed me some matches, so I decided to go with Leftovers.




    [​IMG]
    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 148 HP/252 Def/108 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Seismic Toss
    - Toxic
    ---


    Blissey is the best Special Wall in the game, so why not use it? Anyway, Blissey is for annoying things like Zapdos, and other Special sweepers who are only walled by Blissey. Toxic is obviously for Flying and Levitate Pokemon. I switch Bliseey on Salamence first to take the obvious Draco Meteonr, if it uses something like Dragon Dance I swtchi between Hitmontop and Gyrados to abuse Intimdate on it, then just Roar it or use Stone Edge with Hitmontop. Seismic Toss over Flamethrower or Ice Beam for the annoying SubHeatrans or Heatran in general, some of them pack HP Electric, so Gyrados won't work. Blissey is really important, because without it Salamence would've just Draco Meteor'd the whole team.




    [​IMG]
    Rotom-f @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest
    ---


    Rotom is my anti-spinner, obviously. This is my only Metagross counter, so if Rotom gets pursuited by Tyranitar or something I'll really have a hard time with Metagross, so I'm considering using Will-o-wisp, I considered using Magezone because I don't really need an anti-spinner, getting Toxic Spikes up is really easy, but I was worried of Metagross, so I didn't change it. I'm using Shadow Ball over Will-o-wisp because once I lost to a Rotom without Shadow Ball when I used Will-o-wisp over over Shadow Ball (it had Thunderbolt/Will-o-wisp/Rest/Sleeptalk, like the set I was using) and because I have Toxic Spikes, so I can't really burn Tyranitar with Will-o-wisp because of Toxic Spikes. I also use Rotom to counter Gyrados (if it gets pursuited I can still take care of Gyrados by abusing Intimidate on it with Hitmontop/Gyrados then Stone Edge it with Hitmontop.




    [​IMG]
    Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP/5 Atk/252 Def
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Foresight
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    ---


    This team really needs a spinner, because I have 2 Pokemon who are weak to Stealth Rock that I switch them in a lot, so I decided to use the best spinner, Hitmontop. I didn't choose Hitmontop only to spin, I also use it to abuse Intimidate on stuff like Gyrados/Salamence, and to counter Tryanitar (it's my only Tyranitar counter, Nidoqueen could work, but I can't switch it on Choice Banded Earthquake's). I can also switch Hitmontop on Scizor's U-turn's if somehow I didn't spin Stealth Rock, because I can't really switch Gyrados in if Stealth Rock is in the field. Foresight is there so I can spin 100% of the time.
  2. Lady Bug

    Lady Bug 砂漠 ☆彡 King of the Desert ☆彡 砂漠
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Threat List:

    [​IMG] Azelf – Most of them are leads, they just set up Stealth Rock and die. I switch Rotom on these things and Shadow Ball them while they set up rocks and use Psychic or whatever they have.

    [​IMG] Blissey – Hitmontop,Toxic, Toxic Spikes, and Gyrados. Blissey isn't a problem at all.

    [​IMG] Breloom Breloom can be a problem sometimes, I switch Gyrados in first to take the Spore and Intimidate it, if it doesn't have Leech Seed I just send Nidoqueen in to counter it, if it’s the Leech Seed version I just send Rotom on them, they only have Focus Punch as a move that can hurt, so its not a big deal.

    [​IMG] Bronzong – Rotom and Gyrados can handle Bronzong easily.

    [​IMG] Celebi – Toxic it with Blissey, Toxic Spikes, or Rotom. I can phaze the Baton Pass versions with Gyrados. Abomasnow can take care of the HP Fireless ones.

    [​IMG] Cresselia – Blissey, Leech Seeding it with Abomasnow, and Rotom can handle it.

    [​IMG] GengarGengar can be a pain, especially the Substitute ones. I usually use Foresight on them with Hitmontop, go to Blissey and Seismic Toss them, but if Hitmontop is at low health or something, hen I have to PP stall it.

    [​IMG] Forretress – Forretress isn't really a big threat, I can spin whatever it sets up with Hitmontop, and sometimes they switch it on Nidoqueen to spin, they don't really expect Fire Blast for some reason, and Rotom to block them when they try to spin.

    [​IMG] Gliscor – The Sword Dance versions can be annoying, especially if they have Stone Edge, I Toxic them with Blissey but thy get like 1 kill. Abomsnow and Gyrados can take care of any other version easily.

    [​IMG] Gyarados – Gyrados can be a problem if Rotom gets pursuited, but I can still handle it with abusing Intimidate with Hitmontop/Gyrados and then Stone Edge it with Hitmontop.

    [​IMG] Heatran – I switch Blissey on Heatran, when I feel they're going to explode (the choiced versions) I go to Gyrados just tobe safe, Explosion does like 44%. Life orb Heatrans can be pain, but I just play around it an try to switch Rotom on the Explosion.

    [​IMG] Hippowdon – Abomasnow, Gyrados, or I can Toxic it with Blissey.

    [​IMG] Infernape – Gyrados can take care of the mixed ones easily. If they are Sword Dancers and use Sword Dance when I go to Gyrados I go to Nidoqueen or Hitmontop to take the Stone Edge and Earthquake/Close Combat it.

    [​IMG] Jirachi – Jirachi isn't a problem at all. Rotom and Gyrados can take care of the Physical ones, if I don't see Leftovers on them I go to Nidoqueen first to take the Trick. Blissey handles the Calm Mind versions easily.

    [​IMG] Jolteon – Blissey can pretty much counter this thing to death. If somehow Blissey is at low health and I can't switch it on Jolteon I still have Abomasnow and Nioqueen to counter it.

    [​IMG] KingdraI just Roar the Dragon Dane ones with Gyrados till they die from Toxic Spikes/Hail/Stealth Rock damage. Abomasnow takes care of the mixed ones easily.

    [​IMG] Latias – Blissey can take care of most of the sets, but I always go to Abomasnow first to take Trick if they have it or Leech Seed it if it’s the Calm Mind Refresh Latias, not really a big threat.

    [​IMG] LucarioNidoqueen can take care of any set, most of them are Sword Dancers anyway. If somehow Nidoqueen dies I still have Gyrados to counter it.

    [​IMG] Machamp – I intimidate it first with Gyrados or Hitmontop and then go to Nidoqueen, who can take anything Machamp uses, or sometimes I just counter it with Gyrados if they don't have Stone Edge.

    [​IMG] MagnezoneBlissey and Niqueen walls it to death. If they don't have HP Fire or Flash canon, Abomasnow can take care of it, too.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine – Rotom can pretty much take anything Mamoswine uses. Sometimes I need o intimidate it with Gyrados or Hitmontop so they do less damage.

    [​IMG] Metagross – If Rotom gets pursuited I have to play around this thing and switch Nidoqueen on Thnderpunch and Earthquake it, like that nothing dies. The banded versions with Zen Headbutt are pain, it 2HKO's Rotom and Gyrados, I just let Rotom dies to it after it Thunderblots it, and then I switch Gyrados in to kill it.

    [​IMG] Rotom-AIf I don't see Leftovers on them I go to Nidoqueen to take the Trick, and then Blissey can take care of it, I still have to worry about them tricking Black Sludge, though. Abomasnow takes care of the SubCharge Beam and the RestTalk versions.

    [​IMG] SalamenceThis thing is a really big problem for this team. I switch Blissey on it most of the time to take the obvious Draco Meteor, then I go to Gyrados/Hitmontop for Intimidate, while they use like Brick Break or Outrage if I went to Hitmontop I Stone Edge them, if I went to Gyrados I just Rest if they used Outrage, since I'll live 2 Outrages from the Standard MixMence. For the Dragon Dance versions I usually abuse Intimidate on it if it’s a bulky version without a fire move, I switch Abomasnow into it after few Intimidate's and Blizzard it, if it’s the 3 attacks ones with Dragon Dance I just try to Stone Edge it with Hitmontop. The Choice Band Salamence is the biggest threat for this team, I don't really have any sage switch-ins, I just try to make it die to Stealth Rock and abuse Intimidate on it.

    [​IMG] Scizor – Not a threat at all. Gyrados, Nidoqueen, and Rotom counter it.

    [​IMG] Skarmory – Skarmory can be a problem if Rotom gets pursuited, so I just have to try passing Wish's to Hitmontop and spin Spikes, that if Rotom gets pursuited. If they don't have a pursuiter, then Rotom can take care of it easily.

    [​IMG] Snorlax – I can just phaze the Curse versions easily with Gyrados, if it’s the last Pokemon, then I Leech Seed it and finish it off with Hitmonop.

    [​IMG] Starmie – Abomasnow and Blissey takes care of this easily. Sometimes I send Rotom on Starmie if I don't want them to spin.

    [​IMG] SuicuneMy initial switch-in is Abomasnow, since most of they carry Rest, Blissey can't counter it. For the Restless versions I counter them with Blissey, Abomasnow can still counter them, but I just save it for something else.

    [​IMG] Swampert – Abomasnow takes care of almost every set, if I found out they are banded I can go to Hitmontop to take the Stone Edge, if they use it.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar – Hitmontop is my only counter to this thing, it can be a problem sometimes. Nidoqueen kind of works as a counter, if somehow Hitmontop dies.

    [​IMG] Tentacruel - Blissey can take care of it easily, Nioqueen abosrbs Toxic Spikes. Rotom sometimes comes on Tentacruel to block spinning.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon – Toxic it with Blissey, Abomasnow, and Rotom.

    [​IMG] ZapdosBlissey. If somehow Blissey dies this thing will be a pain.
  3. throwknife

    throwknife

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    53
    Don't use Black Sludge Nidoqueen as a Trick absorber. I tried that, and all it does is give them a potwntially dangerous item to trick onto one of your pokes.

    Over Hitmontop and Nidoqueen, try using a Tentacruel. He is a very bulky user of Rapid Spin and TSpikes. In the spare slot, try adding Skarmory to make SkarmBliss, a notorious , if not old, combo for forcing switches. And does that gyara work? Do you find Roar in the sleep fast enough, or is there too little freeom, as Swampert could work.
  4. Scofield

    Scofield Ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhh, Kate.......
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Yeah man, great team, you have flustered me with it plenty a time. You really are hurt by ttar and salamence though...

    with ttar you just have to play your snow warning's and rotom correctly, something I'm sure you can do. for salamence, I'd say use ice shard over wood hammer (or something else?) on abomasnow, you'd mostly leech seed on bulky waters any ways right? I mean LS + toxic spikes is death to anything without rest anyways. Ice shard does 61.14% - 71.69% to 6 hp salamence, so that's a decent chunk that can pretty much guarantee mence never ohko's more than 1 mon on your team. If you want, 120 attack evs guarantees the ohko after SR and 1 turn of hail/ss, but that's kind of a hefty investment.

    On hail teams, especially those that utilize toxic spikes, I would LOVE to see mamoswine as a late game sweeper, something I've been working with lately, but you really can't fit it on your team, sadly.
  5. Witnessed

    Witnessed

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2009
    Messages:
    364
    Amazing team Lady bug. Your biggest problem is definately CB Tar, who changes the weather and can quickly decimate your team. As you said before, Hitmontop is your only hope of defeating it. Hitmontop is a great Ttar counter, but I think we can make this team more capable of taking it down. First of all, change Rotom's set from the rest-talker set to a more standard set with Will-o-Wisp and and Blizzard. You don't seem to be abusing Blizzard that much. Will-o-Wisp burns Ttar, rendering it pretty much useless. You already have a decent status absorber in Gyarados, so another isn't needed. I hope I helped, and good luck!
  6. MetaNite

    MetaNite
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I remember battling this team, and it is wrecked by powerful mix sweepers, namely Salamence and Dragonite. (My MixNite took out 4 of your Pokemon, although you eventually overcame it with great prediction).

    As a hail team, this is a very well thought out team. Most people would tell you to add a Stallrein but I don't think you need one, only adds to the Fighting and Rock weakness.

    Some initial things I would change would be to switch Rotom-F to Rotom-H since you are not using Blizzard. This will hopefully scare off Metagross and Scizor, Scizor of which, may try to set up on you. I also suggest Will-O-Wisp over Shadow ball, as I think blissey handles Rotom very well.

    I would suggest using Earth Power and Ice Beam in place of Earthquake and Fire Blast, Ice Beam mostly for troublesome Dragon-types, and Gliscor who will try to Taunt you and EQ you. Change the nature accordingly.

    One very easy way to get rid of Dragon-types is giving Abomasnow Ice Shard instead of Blizzard. This might sound strange but it allows Abomasnow to OHKO the Dragons thinking they can easily Flamethrower you. This way, you can also change the nature to Careful and SubSeed Blissey who is otherwise faster than you. Ice Shard can also help against Calm Mind Latias and other threats who just got away.

    I certainly don't see a large Tyranitar weakness as you have Hitmontop, who easily Intimidates, as well as Gyarados who switches into anything bar Stone Edge.

    I have to leave right now, but I'll be back later to continue.
  7. iKitsune

    iKitsune

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    805
    Considering this team struggles a lot with Dragon's as you basically have no way of handling them or any mix sweeper. It may be an idea to just scarf Abomasnow and turn the tables on MixMence.

    I know its longevity is crucial to the team but with a scarf it can take on far more leads as well as being able to pound everything with STAB Blizzards. I would definitely give it a try. The other advantage of using a scarf on Abomasnow is the amount of leads you beat due to hail kicking in. I imagine this team can struggle a bit with Azelf and this will certainly help.

    Finally with the wish support from Blissey its longevity shouldnt be too drastically decreased.

    Hope this helps.
  8. Lady Bug

    Lady Bug 砂漠 ☆彡 King of the Desert ☆彡 砂漠
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    I guess I'll just stick with Leftovers over Black Sludge for now. I'm not liking how they trick Black Sludge to Blissey lately =/

    About replacing Hitmontop, I think I explained why I can't change it. Like I said, I need to spin rocks 100% of the time, since I switch Gyrados and Abomasnow in a lot. Nidoqueen is my Gyrados counter, so I can't replace it. Also, I need it's ability (Intimidate) for things like Salamence so I can handle them with Blissey. I know that I have a Gyrados who can do that, but I use it to counter other stuff and they usually kill it, so without Nidoqueen, Lucario can sweep me easily late game. And yes, that Gyrados does work.

    @ the Ice Shard and scarfing Abomasnow suggestions, I might give Ice Shard a try, since I don't really use Wood Hammer a lot, only to surprise Swampert leads. Also, I can't make it a scarfed Abomasnow, because i need the bulk and Leech Seed + Protect to beat stuff like Sub Charge Beam Rotoms and CM Refresh Latias.

    This is actually a good idea, because some people might think I have Overheat or something. I'll try it out.

    About replacing Shadow Ball with Will-o-wisp, I'm not really sure about this idea, because I have Toxic Spikes, I won't be able to burn Tyranitar with them in the field, but I'll try it out again and see if it works.

    Thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming!

    EDIT: august just gave me a better spread for Gyrados, Careful nature 252 HP/188 Def/12 Spd/56 SDef. With that it can take the classic MixMence's Dravo Metoer after SR. Editing it in
  9. Polis4rule

    Polis4rule

    Joined:
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    1,101
    I've used a similar team (did not steal it!) in the past, and I also found that Mach Punch works well on Top, if you find the defense lowering side effects of Close Combat to be unsatisfactory. It can be used to pick off stuff that's been weakened and at low health, which may or may not be useful. Just some food for thought; Close Combat may work just fine for you

    Great team though.
  10. Lady Bug

    Lady Bug 砂漠 ☆彡 King of the Desert ☆彡 砂漠
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Sadly, I can't replace any of the moves on Hitmontop, Stone Edge is needed for Gyrados and Salamence, CC is obviously for Tyranitar and Blissey (I might test revenge over it sometime), Foresight and Rapid Spin so I can spin on anything, obviously.
  11. ToF

    ToF
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 13 Champion

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    Ignoring the fact that you pretty much lose automatically to Leftovers SubPunch Gengar, I think you have a very good team. I'll ignore the first comment since it has become quite uncommon, but even Life Orb variants give you trouble.

    Ice Shard sounds good on Abomasnow as a sort of last-ditch effort against Salamence. Roost Salamence looks like it will beat you, so Ice Shard will definitely help out without relying on Hitmontop + Blissey to win. Wood Hammer seems useless except maybe getting a kill or two on Swampert (what Swampert user would stay in on Abomasnow in the first place...) and a weakened Blissey I guess. Not much merit.

    Other thing was about Shadow Ball versus WoW on Rotom. Looking from an observers perspective, I think you prioritize getting Toxic Spikes out early, meaning Tyranitar will be poisoned coming in as opposed to burned. Seems like you answered your own question as to which move to use. Shadow Ball will also help out against like SubSeed Breloom who is a pain for this team.

    It is really an excellent team and has been fun watching you stall the hell out of random users lol.
  12. COCKBLOCK

    COCKBLOCK

    Joined:
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    I think you guys have forgotten that Wood Hammer Abomasnow is one of the best Crocune counters in the game =/

    Ice Shard does sound pretty interesting in revenging shit like Mence/Flygon. I find it to be personal preference in this case. Maybe Ice Shard over Blizzard? Idk, up to you.

    Good shit as usual Darkraii

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