Hariyama? UU?

[Eo Ut Mortus]

I'd use this personally:

Hariyama @ Leftovers/Muscle Band/Hard Rock
Adamant/Guts
Max Attack/Max Defense
Belly Drum
Focus Punch/Close Combat
Bullet Punch
Stone Edge/Rock Slide

Switch it in on Blissey's/Cresselia's Thunder Wave rather than getting burned, it won't kill much stuff with its HP drained by Belly Drum + Burn. Belly Drum on the switch to the physical wall. Gliscor can't do a thing to you because it's OHKOed by Stone Edge, while its Aerial Ace has to critical hit in order for it to kill a half health Hariyama. Rock Slide is only a surefire OHKO with Hard Rock, but with Muscle Band, it has a pretty high chance. If Skarm comes in, he's not going to like Focus Punch.

The problem I'd see with this set is full paralysis and stuff like Gyarados, though Heracross has similar problems, albeit with another STAB move and more speed.

 

[Robo Mike]

I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet. But with 50 speed, what outspeeds him inside trick-room? I think only slowbro's psychic is something that he would fear.

Well, there's also CM Bronzong's Psychic in this case...

 

[Dragontamer]

Oh yeah... tanks. Lol. I am a "fast and light" sweeper person. I rarely use tanks like Bronzong. So they usually slip my mind.

 

[Dark Android]

Hariyama has taken a turn for the worst. Sure he got his punches and Close Combat, but two things: firstly, Alakazam completely destroys the sumo wrestler unless the Hariyama has severe HP and Special Defense EP investments, and secondly, Hariyama is, has been, and will always be in Heracross' shadow. Heracross is a lot faster than most fighters (even Blaziken), has higher attack than Hari, and has STAB Megahorn to deal with Alakazam, and his twin siblings Gardevoir and Gallade.

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

Hariyama has taken a turn for the worst. Sure he got his punches and Close Combat, but two things: firstly, Alakazam completely destroys the sumo wrestler unless the Hariyama has severe HP and Special Defense EP investments, and secondly, Hariyama is, has been, and will always be in Heracross' shadow. Heracross is a lot faster than most fighters (even Blaziken), has higher attack than Hari, and has STAB Megahorn to deal with Alakazam, and his twin siblings Gardevoir and Gallade.

Hariyama has Bullet Punch to deal with the three you mentioned, while Heracross has to rely on Choice Scarf to outspeed Alakazam for the KO.

 

[BFC]

I never relized how good Hariyama could be im thinking about using the Sub punch set.

 

[Dragontamer]

Hariyama has taken a turn for the worst. Sure he got his punches and Close Combat, but two things: firstly, Alakazam completely destroys the sumo wrestler unless the Hariyama has severe HP and Special Defense EP investments, and secondly, Hariyama is, has been, and will always be in Heracross' shadow. Heracross is a lot faster than most fighters (even Blaziken), has higher attack than Hari, and has STAB Megahorn to deal with Alakazam, and his twin siblings Gardevoir and Gallade.

On the other hand, Heracross is 2x weak to fire. Hariyama has thick fat which makes him resistant to fire. Ditto with ice. Even if Hariyama has guts instead of thick fat.

I'm also not sure of how many people run Inner Focus Alakazam, but Hariyama has Fake-Out + Bullet Punch at his disposal. With his massive attack, and possibly guts to back it up, I wouldn't call it an instant win on Alakazam's part.

Basically, it is unfair to compare Heracross with Hariyama. They are different beasts. Its like Toxicroak, sure if you wanna sweep Heracross probably is better. However, they seem to have their niches. (Hariyama == trick room, and with its Thick Fat seems useful. Toxicroak == water immunity and heals in rain dance) So the better pokemon is obviously whichever one suits your team better.

 

[shadysback321]

He's to slow, Psychic types just destroy him.

You don't get it. You're supposed to switch into Wevile and create a Sub and when they switch and hit you w/ Psychic you can Payback them back to oblivion.

 

[Great Sage]

Hariyama in and of itself is not a bad Pokemon, but there is just too much competition with other Fighting types, and Hariyama doesn't have something really special to boost itself up.

 

[Bologo]

Don't forget that unlike Heracross, Hariyama also resists stealth rock. Maybe with a choice scarf it can actually outspeed a few of the faster pokemon while still doing a lot of damage, even without a guts boost. Also, it does get Arm Thrust being breaking substitutes, even if it only really works well on things like Tyranitar.

 

[lilyhollow]

Hariyama shouldn't be equipping Choice Scarf or going offensive at all due to Machamp basically having his number there. He gets Knock Off, Whirlwind, and good defenses with the right EVs, and he should use those to his advantage.

 

[shadysback321]

Hariyama shouldn't be equipping Choice Scarf or going offensive at all due to Machamp basically having his number there. He gets Knock Off, Whirlwind, and good defenses with the right EVs, and he should use those to his advantage.

I agree. Knock Off is a great move for Hariyama.

 

[Inferno838]

High Hariyama Hopes

You know, I'm not sure if Hariyama has what it takes to be used in mainstream battling (or even OU), but I sure hope so. I'm getting a little tired of seeing the same damn things over and over again. Just because a Pokemon is deemed a staple 'insert role here' of a team, I still like to see some variety. Good job, thread-starter.

 

[Hypnotist]

Hmm... wow... Hariyama seems cool. I have to say though... Burn Orb+Guts+Subpunching would be really scary from this guy. O.o

I think this is one of the few pokemon where it doesn't really matter what attacks you give it as long as its a combination of some selected attacks. In other words, in the case of hariyama, it doesn't matter whether you go Fling/Sub or Focus Punch/Sub as long as you have a combination of Fling, Sub, Knock Off, Focus Punch, Whirlwind, Arm Thrust, Belly Drum, Counter and a couple of more, you just can't go wrong. This makes him extremely unpredictable.

I like this guy, I might just use him. :)

 

[Hekatoncheir]

And I'm allergic to made-up words like "QuakeSlide". It's Earthquake and Rock Slide. Two different moves.

Doesn't stop you from using names like EspyJump, SpecsMence or Tyraniboah now, does it?

 

[RaikouLover]

Forgot to mention, but most people will switch to ghost pokemon, most likely Gengar to absorb his Close Combat/Cross Chop, which is another + if you are using the Subpunch + Knock Off/Payback set. I don't think anyone would be dense enough to have frail 'Zam absorb an attack.

When you think about it, he has a lot of different things that can work, which is harder to counter then the typical Heracross which we ALL KNOW IS PACKING THE SAME 4 MOVES. Heracross is great, but it gets boring, and people always have a counter for him.

 

[valir]

i hate heracross.


i just won another 2 games thanks to my fat ninja set that i posted.


NO one sees a will o whisp comming from a hariyama. And no one expects 200+free damage to pokes. U can ohko a weavile with bullet punch, and fake out+bullet punch can surprisingly kill a lot of pokes late game.


Fling+flame orb is pretty under rated =/.


i had more success with that subpunch build. THat was my first build slightly different EV spread. I got bored and made this one. Its something no one ever expects, which makes for some fun surprises.

 

[Monkeymascot]

When you think about it, he has a lot of different things that can work, which is harder to counter then the typical Heracross which we ALL KNOW IS PACKING THE SAME 4 MOVES. Heracross is great, but it gets boring, and people always have a counter for him.

Name a good Heracross counter other than Gliscor. You can't always have Gliscor, so you can't always have a counter for Heracross. If you get outpredicted by a Heracross user and don't have Gliscor, you are at a huge disadvantage.

 

[Mr.E]

HINT: Arm Thrust blows, stop considering it at all.

Name a good Heracross counter other than Gliscor.

Weezing. Spiritomb.

 

[RaikouLover]

....and the million physical sweepers carying Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Fire Punch

Specsmence...

Even Weavile can kill him in one hit on the revenge kill.

Bulky Gyarados is also designed to counter Heracross.

 

[Dark Android]

Earthquake is not all that great on fighters, man. Think about it, a neutral STAB Close Combat does almost as much as a SE EQ, and with SE factored, it does more. The only reason i'd use EQ on a fighter is if I was really paranoid of Poison types(and even then, Stone Edge does loads to them.) Hariyama is no exception. Fighting types should leave Weezing, Gengar, and Muk killing to Alakazam.

 

[Sir Spanky]

Weezing. Spiritomb.

Spiritomb is neutral to Megahorn, so a max HP and max Defence Spiritomb takes a crazy 71-83% from Heracross, even Stone Edge does 45%!

 

[Monkeymascot]

CB Stone Edge does 33-39% on Weezing. Spiritomb is 2HKO'd by Megahorn.

Both of these commonly carry Will-o-Wisp too, so if you add Guts Heracross does 50-59% on Weezing and I'm not sure about Spiritomb but definitely 2HKOs, maybe OHKOs.

Name one sweeper than can switch in on Heracross.

SpecsMence is 2HKO'd by Stone Edge after Intimidate, OHKO'd with Guts.

Weavile is OHKO'd by either Megahorn, Stone Edge, or Close Combat. That is NOT a counter.

Alright, bulky Gyarados. That makes 2 Heracross counters with prediction, but Gyarados is 2HKO'd by Stone Edge even after Intimidate.

 

[Pirate]

Drifblim takes max 22% from megahorn (Max hp/def) you dont even need to max hp at all. Hypnosis on the switch would be great.

Though he will be UU imo

Max HP/No def Dusknoir takes max 51% from megahorn fighting immunity etc.

Nidoqueen(Max hp/def) takes 40% from stab megahorn and about 40% from CC and takes less from Stone edge

Nidoking takes about 45% from CC/Megahorn (max hp/def)

Nidoking(0hp/max def) Takes about 54% max from CC/Megahorn


etc

 

[RaikouLover]

Weavile is a revenge killer. Heracross kills your pokemon, Weavile can come in and OHKO.

Specsmence switches in on the Megahorn/Close Combat and OHKOs with Flamethrower or Draco Meteor. He can do it every time... that sounds like a counter to me. He outspeeds Cross unless it is Scarf. But Scarf Heracross isn't nearly as scary after an intimidate.

Anyway, the point is, Hariyama can be a nice alternative to the same ol' Heracross because he has more diversity in his sets and therefore can be difficult to counter because you don't know what set he has. Everyone expects Heracross to be CB or CS with the same 4 moves because he always has them. It is standard for a reason, but predictability is a team weakness.