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Hazards Discussion

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by dcae, May 3, 2013.

  1. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    Approved by Blarajan






    Entry Hazards Discussion



    We all know what the entry hazards are and what they do. In OU there is constantly discussion on whether Stealth Rock is broken or not, and especially how hazards are on 100% of competitive teams. However, in LC, hazards are somewhat less seen, and competitive teams can peak first without hazards.

    In this thread, we can discuss the effect of hazards on the LC metagame, and some major hazard setters and spinners. Also, discuss the specific hazards and how they have impacted the metagame. Hopefully we can garner some good discussion, and this can help new players also understand the role hazards play in LC.

    A few questions to keep in mind:

    • How effectively can this Pokémon set up hazards/spin them/spinblock
    • Does it accomplish other goals as to not be dead weight?
    • Does it maintain offensive pressure or is it a good defensive mon?
    • How consistent is it at setting up hazards/spinning them/spinblocking?
    I am going to Archive discussed mons with a short description into 3 different categories: Hazards Setter, Spinner, and Spinblocker.









    Discussion is still highly important so we can together examine the pros and cons of various mons, the style they fit, etc.








    Archive





    Hazards Setters:






    Dwebble

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    This guy is one of the best hazard setters in LC, with access to Stealth Rock and Spikes, while also having Sturdy, and excellent 16 Speed, which allows it to virtually guarantee two layers set up. Also, since it can run Shell Smash, it can combine the hazards with intense offensive pressure, and keep your opponent guessing. Also, it has access to Rock Blast to break Subs in case Pokémon try setting up on it, such as SubRoost Krow.


    Hippopotas

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    Everyone knows Hippopotas due to it having the unique access to Sand Stream, making it a necessity on every Sand team. It has access to Stealth Rock and recovery, which permits it to come in and set up hazards consistently through the game thanks to good bulk. However, it loses to Staryu, a common Spinner, making it a merely decent hazard setter.


    Lileep

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    This mon is a tank, very often seen on Sand teams due to incredible bulk under Sand, and also access to Storm Drain, which is amazing. Lileep gets access to Stealth Rock, and definitely has the bulk and presence to keep Stealth Rock up. It also beats both Drilbur and Staryu, the two more common spinners, and is a top notch choice for SR. However, due to it commonly being paired with Hippo, which carries the SR, Lileep is rarely seen carrying it.


    Ferroseed

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    The younger brother of the Ferrothorn that irritates so many people up in OU, Ferroseed stars in LC, able to set up both Spikes and Stealth Rock. However, several flaws it does have, most notably the fact that it lacks consistent recovery, and is quite a momentum loser. However, it does a decent job against common spinners and is overall a decent choice for a hazard setter.





    Spinners:




    Drilbur

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    Drilbur is most often regarded as a devastating Sand Rush sweeper, which is the flagship set because it can tear teams to shreds so easily. However, access to Rapid Spin allows it to go down the support route. It can provide good offensive presence, making spinblocking against it hard. Also, it gets Stealth Rock, which allows it to set up hazards as well. Mold Breaker is useful to nail stuff like Misdreavus and Bronzor.


    Staryu

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    Staryu is arguably the best Spinner in LC, thanks to good bulk and high powered moves, along with very fast speed. Access to recovery and Natural Cure just enhances its ability to spin and be a good teammate in general. It acts as an excellent bulky water for teams that need it as well. Definitely the benchmark spinner.
  2. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    The main problem with hazards in LC is the lack of a good defensive setter. Ferroseed / Bronzor can work, but many balance / bulky offensive teams don't need a Steel-type, especially one without reliable recovery. Dwebble is alright on HO teams, but is straightup pointless otherwise. Drilbur is probably the closest thing to a balance setter that exists, but using it gives up Staryu's useful 19 Speed and Hydro Pump. The loss of defensive Gligar really hurt the viability of hazards on balance teams, and I feel that hazards in LC are a luxury rather than a necessity. It can get really pointless to even bother trying at times, seeing that Staryu and MB Drilbur are so common. They're still crucial to stall and a free bonus to sand teams, but otherwise few teams will even bother in this day and age.
  3. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte The Great Stone Dragon
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    I agree with pretty much everything iss said. Other than Stealth Rock, hazards are rare because setters are rare and spinners are common. Drilbur and Staryu are two great pokemon that often find themselves on teams that don't even require spin support all that much because of their offensive capabilities. Plus, since the HP numbers in LC are much smaller, damage rolls from hazards can vary much past the 12% damage rate if neutral. So, hazards can also be unreliable.

    Plus, hazards are not as useful in LC than they are in the higher tiers. Aside from Snover, Murkrow, and Larvesta, there are few other common Pokemon that are weak to hazards. Of the 4 S-Tier Pokemon in the viability ranking thread, one is a spinner that 2x resists Stealth Rock, one has Regenerator and a 2x resistance to SR as well, one is neutral to SR and immune to Spikes, and the last is weak to SR but also immune to Spikes. We also have Sand teams, which carry a spinner 99% of the time, and don't carry hazard weak Pokemon very often. We also have Regenerator mons. Foongus and Mienfoo are two very common Pokemon that don't mind hazards at all because of their ability. Hail is a bit weaker to hazards, but Hail teams more often than not also carry a spinner in Staryu, and have the tools to quickly eliminate common Stealth Rock setters such as Lileep or Hippopotas.

    Other than Stealth Rock, hazards are and should be rare in LC. Even Stealth Rock doesn't commonly have game changing use, unless one runs a Hyper Offensive team.
  4. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude based wooper #dealwithit
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    Yeah other than Stealth Rock it is hard to use any other entry hazard in LC and even then LC teams can still be quite viable with no hazards at all. Part of Spikes and Toxic Spikes not being used is because Drilbur and Staryu are such good spinnersbut also these moves have very little distribution to good Pokémon and the pokemon that do have them are either terrible (Pineco) or only have a small niche in LC like Shelmet whos only use apart from setting Spikes is walling Scraggy. As far a spikes in LC goes I have found Dwebble to be the best user of it for offensive and balanced teams by far. With Sturdy, 16 Speed and Oran Berry Dwebble has the tools necessary to usually get up Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes which offensive teams love. Apart from that the only other viable Spikes setter is Ferroseed. Unfortuntately Toxic Spikes has pretty much no good Pokémon that can learn it and if you are really desperate for it, Tentacool would have to be the only way to go. Even then Toxic Spikes aren't to effective with the number 1 and 3 Pokémon in usage (Misdreavus, Murkrow) being able to avoid it completely. Plus the fact that Tentacool has a Ground-type weakness and sand being one of the most common play styles (Hippopotas at 7th in usage) Tentacool will have a hard time setting up Toxic Spikes.
  5. Nebuchadnezzar

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    Most of what I was going to say has already been discussed, but one TSpikes setter that has not been discussed yet is Skorupi. Since Skorupi possesses partial Bug typing, he is neutral to Ground. In fact, Hippo only 3HKOs the little scorpion. Drilbur is only a 2HKO. Skorupi hits 17 Speed and 18 Def, which is fast enough to set up TSpikes and bulky enough to be able to tank some hits on the way.
    Against unprepared teams, Skorupi can wreak havoc as most players don't know how to solidly check it.
  6. dcae

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    Skorupi is a nice Pokémon you brought up Nebu. It is definitely underappreciated in terms of what it can do. The additional Poison typing permits it to be 4x resistant to Fighting and although it adds a Ground neutrality, it is still decently useful. Access to Toxic Spikes forms its niche. It also has Knock Off, which is of immeasurable utility in BW LC, dropping Eviolite's off like no tomorrow. I had toyed around with it, as it had very nice Defense and decent speed, and it can 3HKO Hippo with Aqua Tail, miniscule chance to 2HKO after Rocks. It is a decent mon overall. Any thoughts?
  7. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude based wooper #dealwithit
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    Yeah Skorupi seems pretty cool and underated from what I have heard.

    I mentioned Shelmet in my above post and Chielee was talking about it on #littlecup yesterday.

    It can get up Spikes and beat majority of fighting-types in the tier with bug buzz and acid armour. After an Acid Armour or two Shelmet can pretty much wall any physical attacker in the tier with Battle Armour protecting it from Critical Hits and Recover keeping it healthy. However Shelmett has a harder time taking on special attackers with the ever present nasty plot missy being able to set up on it with ease.

    Dcae you may want to add Skorupi and Shelmet to the op. If you like this idea feel free to copy my shelmet description and paste it striaght in the op :)
  8. Shouting

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    No discussion of spinblockers? Frillish is excellent at spinblocking, it beats Staryu and Tentacool which are common spinners. physically defensive Missy can beat Mold Breaker Drilbur and Sandshrew, Duskull acts pretty similarly also and has priority.

    The only spinner that can get passed the combination of Frillish and Missy/Duskull is Anorith. Depending on how many times Rock Blast hits, it can 2HKO Frillish, Missy, and Duskull which just proves how good it is at spinning. Unfortunately it cannot get passed Golett, but it really isn't common and isn't used as a spin blocker.
  9. Nebuchadnezzar

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    Another underrated poke that should be discussed is Natu. NAtu's unique ability, Magic Bounce, allows it to reflect all hazards onto the opposing side of the field, all except for MB Drilbur's Stealth Rock that is. Natu beats all Hazard setters one on one except for Anorith and sometimes Drilbur as Anorith outspeeds and Drilbur ties.
  10. weascor

    weascor

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    ditto nebchadnezzar
  11. TailsTheeFox

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    Sandshrew was briefly mentioned as a spinner, but it can also function as a hazard setter. Getting a nifty speed boost in the sand is great, and with access to Swords Dance, a rather good attack, and wonderful Defense means it's not completely outclassed by Drilbur.... Stealth Rock may not have such a huge impact or dominance like in OU, but it changes a few 2HKO's into important OHKO's. Sadly, the only thing that runs a sash lately is Abra and Dwebble.

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