Yeah it can't be stressed enough how good justicar is in pally, like it is extremely hard to lose vs control warrior with an early justicar and it also makes the control priest matchup a hell of a lot more winnable still rather bad though. It is just sooooo good versus control/
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Hearthstone [IRC Channel #Skillstone]
- Thread starter LonelyNess
- Start date
It seems like Blizzard has recognized the trend on the low ranks of ladder for every fucking player to play "loL So RaNdOm TEMpo MaGE" and has given then a bunch of exciting new tools this expansion
http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20097355/
RIP Druid
and also rogue
BUT DIVINE FAVOR IS BALANCED LUL
Last edited:
Those sweet, sweet Druid tears. FeelsGoodMan.
I really agree with the BGH adjustment, puts it more in-line with Harrison and now it's not an instant include in tempo decks. I also approve of the Leper Gnome change but I would've made Knife Juggler a 3/3 for 3 with the same effect it has now but 2/2/2 is still decent.
I really agree with the BGH adjustment, puts it more in-line with Harrison and now it's not an instant include in tempo decks. I also approve of the Leper Gnome change but I would've made Knife Juggler a 3/3 for 3 with the same effect it has now but 2/2/2 is still decent.
I don't like that they just flat out removed the combo, mana nerfs to one or both of Roar/FON would've been better I think. Maybe even make FON costs 9-10 mana and give 4-5 charging treants instead, comparable to Pyroblast as a burst card but it can split damage between targets and runs into Taunt, so you can't Roar it without Innervate(s) too. The combo itself was never particularly problematic, especially not the trees part but more Savage Roar so heavily punishing an opponent's inability to keep the Druid's board clear. It's just run in every Druid deck because they can't beat any other "control" class in a fatigue match: Paladin has dudes and Warlock has Jaraxxus who makes big dudes that will win pushing fatigue, Priest and Warrior have better healing to actually go deep into fatigue, and Druid lacks hard removal to compete with the tempo swings of plays like "Shield Slam your Ysera, play my own Ysera." They have no choice but to play "big midrange" and use the combo to finish. But now combo's dead... and Lore is worse than Azure Drake and Keeper is hardly still better than Spellbreaker, both neutral cards. Where were you when malfurion dies?
And LOL Blade Flurry. I mean come the fuck on Blizzard, yeah okay it can burst face and also blow up the board. It also takes multiple cards. Now at five mana, it's a go-between Consecration/Flamestrike... for two cards. Multiple cards, that's what has always kept Blade Flurry balanced in the first place. Weapon buffs or card-based weapons, which have diminished value compared to non-Rogue weapons because of Hero Power (Garrosh and company don't effectively have their HP disabled when playing weapons) and of which none current are especially powerful anyway (the best Rogue gets is 3 Attack), plus both Oil and Auto-Barber won't be in Standard. I don't see why it needed changed at all, but even if we concede it's ridiculously strong at its best they don't need to double-nerf it like that. And it didn't even need to go to four mana, even three would've made it much more questionable (although too similar to Fan of Knives?), let alone it also not hitting face anymore. RIP Rogue.
rest is kinda whatever
And LOL Blade Flurry. I mean come the fuck on Blizzard, yeah okay it can burst face and also blow up the board. It also takes multiple cards. Now at five mana, it's a go-between Consecration/Flamestrike... for two cards. Multiple cards, that's what has always kept Blade Flurry balanced in the first place. Weapon buffs or card-based weapons, which have diminished value compared to non-Rogue weapons because of Hero Power (Garrosh and company don't effectively have their HP disabled when playing weapons) and of which none current are especially powerful anyway (the best Rogue gets is 3 Attack), plus both Oil and Auto-Barber won't be in Standard. I don't see why it needed changed at all, but even if we concede it's ridiculously strong at its best they don't need to double-nerf it like that. And it didn't even need to go to four mana, even three would've made it much more questionable (although too similar to Fan of Knives?), let alone it also not hitting face anymore. RIP Rogue.
rest is kinda whatever
Lore: Card is trash now imo like they could of at least made it 6/6 and it would have been playable maybe. Also I don't really feel like lore was that bad without digging for combo but oh well rip.
Keeper: Card was incredibly good but this just kills the card to be quite frank. Like you compare it to the stormpike commando and you get +2 attack for 1 mana which lets you trade into 4 drops and it just looks so bad.
Force of Nature: Well it's eons better w/o savage roar and a great arena card but not really too much special about this card.
Blade Flurry: While I think that rogue was a super underrated class prenerfs, this is just ridiculous, like how the fuck does maly rogue deal with aggro??? Also rip oil
Hunter's Mark: And I thuoght they were pushing midrange/control hunter FeelsBadMan but I feel like you still put this card in those decks as a one of maybe 2 of in control like it still is 1 mana if you have another spell/board kill a minion kind of similar to execute which though obviously worse.
BGH: Well this is something lol, would you still tech this in? Maybe but with the possible demise of handlock, I am kind of skeptical.
Leper Gnome: Aggro? More like Faggro LUL xD but yeah fuck this card die in a fire.
Molten Giant: I never got to play handlock FeelsBadMan rip and I also recently crafted jaraxxus so that I could play handlock in standard FeelsBadMan but yeah card is pretty bad it probably still makes reno/echo mage(well obliviously it makes echo mage) at least.
Arcane Golem: ??? Oh yeah we hate combo decks so we'll make you play a minion with 1 less attack and no downside on curve sans 1 health that changes EVERYTHING idk if renolocks will play wolfrider/argent horserider/leeroy but this doesn't really change much at all. A bit of a blow to aggro but still can kind a multitude of replacements.
Knife Juggler: I kind of like this change, makes it not trade up with 4/3s and can't take out 2/3s. I feel like juggler will see play if there aren't a lot of 2/3s but if there are maybe not.
Owl: RIP literally no reason to play this over spellbreaker except for skill command. Idk if face hunter would play this or spellbreaker but that's the only possibility I see owl seeing play in.
Master of Disquise: THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING IM TIRED OF KT MASTER OF DISQUISE ROGUE ITS SO OP. But really good change for design lol probably could have been a 5/4 or 4/5 though.
Keeper: Card was incredibly good but this just kills the card to be quite frank. Like you compare it to the stormpike commando and you get +2 attack for 1 mana which lets you trade into 4 drops and it just looks so bad.
Force of Nature: Well it's eons better w/o savage roar and a great arena card but not really too much special about this card.
Blade Flurry: While I think that rogue was a super underrated class prenerfs, this is just ridiculous, like how the fuck does maly rogue deal with aggro??? Also rip oil
Hunter's Mark: And I thuoght they were pushing midrange/control hunter FeelsBadMan but I feel like you still put this card in those decks as a one of maybe 2 of in control like it still is 1 mana if you have another spell/board kill a minion kind of similar to execute which though obviously worse.
BGH: Well this is something lol, would you still tech this in? Maybe but with the possible demise of handlock, I am kind of skeptical.
Leper Gnome: Aggro? More like Faggro LUL xD but yeah fuck this card die in a fire.
Molten Giant: I never got to play handlock FeelsBadMan rip and I also recently crafted jaraxxus so that I could play handlock in standard FeelsBadMan but yeah card is pretty bad it probably still makes reno/echo mage(well obliviously it makes echo mage) at least.
Arcane Golem: ??? Oh yeah we hate combo decks so we'll make you play a minion with 1 less attack and no downside on curve sans 1 health that changes EVERYTHING idk if renolocks will play wolfrider/argent horserider/leeroy but this doesn't really change much at all. A bit of a blow to aggro but still can kind a multitude of replacements.
Knife Juggler: I kind of like this change, makes it not trade up with 4/3s and can't take out 2/3s. I feel like juggler will see play if there aren't a lot of 2/3s but if there are maybe not.
Owl: RIP literally no reason to play this over spellbreaker except for skill command. Idk if face hunter would play this or spellbreaker but that's the only possibility I see owl seeing play in.
Master of Disquise: THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING IM TIRED OF KT MASTER OF DISQUISE ROGUE ITS SO OP. But really good change for design lol probably could have been a 5/4 or 4/5 though.
Lore isn't that trash, it's just not an auto-include. 5/5 for 5 health or a card is still pretty decent. It might be a worse Drake given situations but it still has function given that Healbot is going out of the meta.
Keeper is suffering from Silence, and it's sad that it is being targeted but a 2/4 silence or SIA:7 is so fucking strong that it hurts. My only target outside of a combo piece was going to be Keeper because the amount of flexibility it had with its stats (given ramp) are just completely crazy. I would say that a 3/3 would be fair, but I'm not Blizzard.
FoN is now an arena card and a decent card for token Druid, which is something Blizzard has been pushing. I don't think the nerf is horrible, I would have preferred FoN at 5 mana and SR at 4 but this basically does what I want, which is disabling a scaling damage output that there is nothing to do against. My hatred of Druid has been brewing and I'm glad the class will not be bogged down by Combo. However I'm glad I don't have to count health on a one creature board while I'm supposed to be ahead.
Flurry: I get it. Rogue can't have good weapons because of it. It feels over done. You could have left the mana cost and gone either way (face or minion) it feels like a Buzzard nerf but maybe Rogue is getting some pretty sweet tempo minions and weapons that makes this make sense.
Hunter's Mark: I don't see why it was necessary it's not like control Hunter will ever be a thing given its Hero Power, I would've adjusted Highmane more than this card since it's way too tempo savvy but that might just be me.
BGH: I like it. I would've liked it at its cost with kill a 7+ minion and kill itself but I understand why Blizzard went with the route they chose.
Leper Gnome: I liked 2/1 deal 1 to face. It's just a slight difference but now Leper is one of the weakest 1 drops.
Molten Giant: I don't like. There are certain decks (Reno, Handlock, Miants Gage) that really depend on getting to a specific amount of health. Now that health is much lower and you're more likely to be burst down before Giants combo. Overall I think this change is more of a benefit to aggro than anything else. You don't need to play around a Molten Giant Taunt combo and can SMOrc and finish with spells. Overall I dislike this one.
Golem: Blizzard has learned Charge is a horrible mechanic. Hooray. We can collect our dust.
Knife Juggler: I would've preferred a 3/3/3 for him. His effect is unique but it shouldn't be allowed that early. 2/2/2 has basically no difference in how he's played. He's still an auto-remove target and there is nothing about him that I would not kill right away. If I'm at 20 and facing an 8/8 and a 2/2 Juggler you fucking bet the Juggler is still my top target. The nerf does nothing except that it does 1 less face damage a turn.
Owl: It's a nerf that needs to happen but it shouldn't be as severe as it was or the card needed to be changed in a vast way. It should've been kept at its current mana and only Silence friendly minions or it should have had its stats increased. There is no reason to not run Spellbreaker over Owl. You get +2/+2 for 1 mana, that's fucking huge. Turn 3 is already considered the weakest turn in Hearthstone (with 7 now being equally as weak with Boom leaving the set) you'd rather set something up or just Hero Power pass and keep your cards.
I do overall like the nerfs, but I actually wish there were more. Freeze Mage (one of my favorite decks) should've been more balanced for this. Scientist being removed doesn't actually change the deck it just makes it go slower. Doomhammer needs to be adjusted. Highmane should very much be nerfed. Warrior could have Execute looked at. Paladin's Tirion is still strictly the best Legendary. Druid and Rogue are already getting a decent nerf, the other classes should get something equal as well. Priest and Warlock seem to have the most balanced cards once Standard is introduced.
Yeah I agree with basically everything that you said though i feel like reno mage can get down to 1 health reliably w/ ice block(albeit less reliably b/c you can't fish for it) but yeah. Tirion is kind of hard to nerf considering how he's basically the salvation for paladin that isn't something like shockadin same thing goes for highmane. Duck Foomhammer and yeah all that stuff. Tirion and highmane are even more insane now though, considering that rip hoothoot and keeper and how there will probably be less priests. Something else I didn't add that I love about moltens is how it adds another level of depth into the games in playing around moltens. Like it's such a hard thing to do but that's why I love it. And here's my class power rankings pre stream:
Top Tier:
1. Mage (mainly since freeze mage is going to be possibly the best deck in the game because druids are kill and warrior usage will probably be significantly reduced, along with tempo mage(which btw this will probably be terrific vs control warrior btw considering that now mirror images and water elementals will probably be in all the tempo mage decks, probably being around where it is right now so mid t2, reno mage may also be like t3)
2. Shaman (midrange and SMOrc and /maybe/ some sort of control shaman I know we were saying this pre tgt but master of evolutions is insane)
High Tier:
3. Hunter (SMOrc and Midrange and again maybe some sort of control but I doubt it)
4. Warrior (I feel like control is going to be good because it can handle aggro hunters and aggro shaman along with the freeze mage matchup posssibly become even better plus patron will probably still be a thing albeit much less of a thing)
Mid Tier
5. Priest (Probably will consist of dragons and control but mainly dragons which is pretty damn good in a faster meta)
6. Warlock (Probably will be made of up renolock and zoo still)
7. Paladin (while this may be a bit controverisal, control paladin has so many new tools it's ridiculous, like justicar, possibly eadric, and NZOTH which can ressurect sylvannas, tirion and possibly cairne which is insane. Dragons might also work)
Low Tier:
8. Druid (as a druid main (not combo though) this is pretty sad to see, like maybe aggro druid returns with tigers>fel reaver but the lack of combo and loss of fel reaver may be too much. Ramp druid also loses lore and kt, the former being more important than the latter but still pretty important, like without lore you lose so much and kt allows you to autowin vs control also loses belcher which is important. Keeper also is a giant deal for ramp druid since it was one of the key components of fighting off aggro which ramp druid is famous for. Although ramp druid might be higher it's up in the air)
FeelsBadMan Tier:
9. Rogue (while raptor rogue is probably still ok at least I just can't think of a solid deck that you can run with rogues, they now get steamrolled by aggro decks with the loss of flurry and aggro decks were already one of rogue's Achilles heels. In a slower meta malygos might work but it's kind of sketchy. Also Just to clarify I felt that rogue was heavily underrated pre nerfs)
LUL NA PREDICTIONS
Top Tier:
1. Mage (mainly since freeze mage is going to be possibly the best deck in the game because druids are kill and warrior usage will probably be significantly reduced, along with tempo mage(which btw this will probably be terrific vs control warrior btw considering that now mirror images and water elementals will probably be in all the tempo mage decks, probably being around where it is right now so mid t2, reno mage may also be like t3)
2. Shaman (midrange and SMOrc and /maybe/ some sort of control shaman I know we were saying this pre tgt but master of evolutions is insane)
High Tier:
3. Hunter (SMOrc and Midrange and again maybe some sort of control but I doubt it)
4. Warrior (I feel like control is going to be good because it can handle aggro hunters and aggro shaman along with the freeze mage matchup posssibly become even better plus patron will probably still be a thing albeit much less of a thing)
Mid Tier
5. Priest (Probably will consist of dragons and control but mainly dragons which is pretty damn good in a faster meta)
6. Warlock (Probably will be made of up renolock and zoo still)
7. Paladin (while this may be a bit controverisal, control paladin has so many new tools it's ridiculous, like justicar, possibly eadric, and NZOTH which can ressurect sylvannas, tirion and possibly cairne which is insane. Dragons might also work)
Low Tier:
8. Druid (as a druid main (not combo though) this is pretty sad to see, like maybe aggro druid returns with tigers>fel reaver but the lack of combo and loss of fel reaver may be too much. Ramp druid also loses lore and kt, the former being more important than the latter but still pretty important, like without lore you lose so much and kt allows you to autowin vs control also loses belcher which is important. Keeper also is a giant deal for ramp druid since it was one of the key components of fighting off aggro which ramp druid is famous for. Although ramp druid might be higher it's up in the air)
FeelsBadMan Tier:
9. Rogue (while raptor rogue is probably still ok at least I just can't think of a solid deck that you can run with rogues, they now get steamrolled by aggro decks with the loss of flurry and aggro decks were already one of rogue's Achilles heels. In a slower meta malygos might work but it's kind of sketchy. Also Just to clarify I felt that rogue was heavily underrated pre nerfs)
LUL NA PREDICTIONS
Last edited:
Nah Lore is trash now. Heal 5 is a bad Guardian of Kings and GoK isn't a particularly great card either. I mean, that's always been true but Lore used to be all about the draw-two and the shitty heal was always just a nice bonus bit of versatility for the rare circumstances you would prefer it. It's not a Choose card where the two modes are similarly powerful (e.g. Starfall, DotC). Now that even the "main" mode (draw) is thoroughly mediocre, you have to question whether the versatility is worth it anymore. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the answer is no.
Nothing was really wrong with Keeper, at best it should've at least dropped to 2/3. Fallen Hero and Steelwheedle Sniper keep that stat point while being very similar cards. They don't have a pocket silence for when you really need it, but the ping is more generally useful and their effects are repeatable if allowed to stick where Keeper's a Battlecry. Even 2/3 would really hurt, because early Keeper is one of Druid's best weapons against aggro decks and dropping it to 3 HP lets two-drops trade up much more easily, but it would be more consistent and fair compared to similar cards.
FoN is basically worthless. It's too expensive for an aggressive Druid deck and you'd rather Soul of the Forest to protect an existing board. Violet Teacher has been and will continue to be the quintessential midrange token Druid drop and there's already plenty of options for curvetoppers. It's nothing but a half-assed Arena card. As I already stated, I wish they would've either done something with Savage Roar (prob mana cost increase to 4) or made FoN "bigger" so you simply can't combo the two anymore (without Innervates), since individually the cards aren't a problem and Roar itself is the stronger and more versatile card of the two. The only reason they hit FoN is because of their vendetta against Charge, I suppose.
Arcane Golem could stand to be even bigger, considering Dancing Swords and King Mukla's drawbacks are actually less damning on curve and yet respectively have an equivalent and larger body. This wasn't meant to be a "individually discuss all the card nerfs" post though and most of the rest I'm just like yeah whatever anyway. Don't like the Molten change, however, considering how easy it is to go over the top of taunts with spells when you have to go as low as 5 HP to get free Moltens now (plus Healbot leaving Standard) but it doesn't hurt Giants Mage and Handlock will adapt easily enough. Handlock's not about Molten, it's about ridiculous four-drops (huge Drake or Giant of the Mountain variety) and Molten was just a nice middle-finger to aggro decks when it worked.
Nothing was really wrong with Keeper, at best it should've at least dropped to 2/3. Fallen Hero and Steelwheedle Sniper keep that stat point while being very similar cards. They don't have a pocket silence for when you really need it, but the ping is more generally useful and their effects are repeatable if allowed to stick where Keeper's a Battlecry. Even 2/3 would really hurt, because early Keeper is one of Druid's best weapons against aggro decks and dropping it to 3 HP lets two-drops trade up much more easily, but it would be more consistent and fair compared to similar cards.
FoN is basically worthless. It's too expensive for an aggressive Druid deck and you'd rather Soul of the Forest to protect an existing board. Violet Teacher has been and will continue to be the quintessential midrange token Druid drop and there's already plenty of options for curvetoppers. It's nothing but a half-assed Arena card. As I already stated, I wish they would've either done something with Savage Roar (prob mana cost increase to 4) or made FoN "bigger" so you simply can't combo the two anymore (without Innervates), since individually the cards aren't a problem and Roar itself is the stronger and more versatile card of the two. The only reason they hit FoN is because of their vendetta against Charge, I suppose.
Arcane Golem could stand to be even bigger, considering Dancing Swords and King Mukla's drawbacks are actually less damning on curve and yet respectively have an equivalent and larger body. This wasn't meant to be a "individually discuss all the card nerfs" post though and most of the rest I'm just like yeah whatever anyway. Don't like the Molten change, however, considering how easy it is to go over the top of taunts with spells when you have to go as low as 5 HP to get free Moltens now (plus Healbot leaving Standard) but it doesn't hurt Giants Mage and Handlock will adapt easily enough. Handlock's not about Molten, it's about ridiculous four-drops (huge Drake or Giant of the Mountain variety) and Molten was just a nice middle-finger to aggro decks when it worked.
I was really hoping that there would be buff adjustments as well. Many of the classes feel incomplete without Naxx. Rogue in particular suffers from a lack of a real win con, warrior without Death's Bite is troubling, and Paladin is high and dry once Keeper and Challenger rotate out. I kind of wanted to see standard function so that the new sets don't have to keep filling the same serious holes.
Blizzard hating Charge and burst is typical. Good job taking the mechanics out of the game that actually force the opponents to think a couple turns ahead or read your hand. Charge is an expensive mechanic, but not a fundamentally flawed one.
Arcane Golem and Blade flurry were not the things keeping molten giant in check, I have no idea what they were smoking.
Blade flurry's nerf made no sense. It was a 1 of in decks with 2 deadly poison and nothing else. It could be played around with taunt minions that waste the second weapon charge. Hitting face made you feel better about destroying the weapon because Rouge only has so much face damage. They don't need this kind of tension. And mana increase is so important in a deck based on comboing spells, or is Rogue's CORE MECHANIC falling out of fashion with blizzard because the community dislikes that cards can be put together for greater effects. (Hur Dur combos take no skill cause all you have to do is draw the combo and you win the game)
Druid nerfs are fine because even if their identity is just restricted to ramping (ie their flexibility is shittier) they still do that a hell of a lot better than other classes come into their identities right now.
BGH nerf is whatever. Now you run it in decks that need all the removal it can get as opposed to an efficient removal choice over your other options. Doesn't mean big minions are suddenly going to be the counter to control decks or that you'll have time to play them against aggro decks.
Owl nerf is silly because you never cared about the 2/1 except in hunter and 2 mana silence was already pretty sketch. When you want silence you want it but how many decks actually need it?
My biggest problem with all of this os it felt like just addressing a few possible card concerns the playerbase might have without actually trying to understand what each class and it's identity are going to look like in the long run. If there are design holes that the standard sets constantly have to fill that's a problem.
Blizzard hating Charge and burst is typical. Good job taking the mechanics out of the game that actually force the opponents to think a couple turns ahead or read your hand. Charge is an expensive mechanic, but not a fundamentally flawed one.
Arcane Golem and Blade flurry were not the things keeping molten giant in check, I have no idea what they were smoking.
Blade flurry's nerf made no sense. It was a 1 of in decks with 2 deadly poison and nothing else. It could be played around with taunt minions that waste the second weapon charge. Hitting face made you feel better about destroying the weapon because Rouge only has so much face damage. They don't need this kind of tension. And mana increase is so important in a deck based on comboing spells, or is Rogue's CORE MECHANIC falling out of fashion with blizzard because the community dislikes that cards can be put together for greater effects. (Hur Dur combos take no skill cause all you have to do is draw the combo and you win the game)
Druid nerfs are fine because even if their identity is just restricted to ramping (ie their flexibility is shittier) they still do that a hell of a lot better than other classes come into their identities right now.
BGH nerf is whatever. Now you run it in decks that need all the removal it can get as opposed to an efficient removal choice over your other options. Doesn't mean big minions are suddenly going to be the counter to control decks or that you'll have time to play them against aggro decks.
Owl nerf is silly because you never cared about the 2/1 except in hunter and 2 mana silence was already pretty sketch. When you want silence you want it but how many decks actually need it?
My biggest problem with all of this os it felt like just addressing a few possible card concerns the playerbase might have without actually trying to understand what each class and it's identity are going to look like in the long run. If there are design holes that the standard sets constantly have to fill that's a problem.
best synergy is probably druid of the flame, 3 mana 5/5 value
I wish they would have done something altogether different with Blade Flurry. In WoW, it decreases your attack power while active, but hits surrounding enemies when you attack something. Your weapons stay 100% intact. Maybe make it something like the next time you attack a minion this turn, deal damage equal to your weapon's attack to surrounding minions. idk maybe that's dumb, but like there were different routes they could have taken. The obvious one would have been picking the mana increase or the minion-only damage. I think I like the mana increase-only route too because it forces you to reconsider using your Preps for early tempo against less aggressive decks.
One of the streamers (Trump maybe?) was saying that nerfing Leper Gnome's Deathrattle to 1 damage would be better, and I think I agree. Lepet Gnome really just won't see play anymore, and I don't think that would have been true if it was still a 2/1. It doesn't trade into anything and isn't a big enough threat anymore.
Rest of the nerfs are solid.
Like all of the class legendaries feel random to me. Some of them are good, some are garbage (Mage one), but I just don't get it. Random weapon, AoE clear on a bad body at a high cost, strong minions on curve. These are all things the classes already excelled at. So let's give them odd or inefficient ways to continue to do it? idk seems sketch. I love the Warlock and Rogue ones, but the rest seem sketch. Priest one is the biggest question mark. Doesn't even make sense, and then they printed a better version as an epic for Rogue lol..
One of the streamers (Trump maybe?) was saying that nerfing Leper Gnome's Deathrattle to 1 damage would be better, and I think I agree. Lepet Gnome really just won't see play anymore, and I don't think that would have been true if it was still a 2/1. It doesn't trade into anything and isn't a big enough threat anymore.
Rest of the nerfs are solid.
Like all of the class legendaries feel random to me. Some of them are good, some are garbage (Mage one), but I just don't get it. Random weapon, AoE clear on a bad body at a high cost, strong minions on curve. These are all things the classes already excelled at. So let's give them odd or inefficient ways to continue to do it? idk seems sketch. I love the Warlock and Rogue ones, but the rest seem sketch. Priest one is the biggest question mark. Doesn't even make sense, and then they printed a better version as an epic for Rogue lol..
Every single nerf might be worthwhile in a game that's supposed to be about skill or just having a healthy meta, but once you realize that not a single card got buffed, you start reading between the lines and realize that the nerfs exist for no reason but to sell more of the expansions. And if you don't believe me, remember that they've released cards that are straight up better than classic cards rather than fix the old ones.
The whole point of standard is that they want a fresh new meta. Im pretty sure theyve said outright they dont want strong classic cards being around everywhere forever. Nerfs make sure that happens, buffs dont. You can say theyre merely trying to sell more cards but I dont think having a future meta full of new faces is really a bad thing. You dont really see other card games with people playing the first cards ever printed in competitive play, so why is it so horrible if it happens in hearthstone?
Also the thing with them printing cards that are straight up better. Like heckler vs booty bay, ice rager vs magma rager. Those have mostly been cards from the basic set, theyre supposed to shit and most cards should always be better than those.
Also the thing with them printing cards that are straight up better. Like heckler vs booty bay, ice rager vs magma rager. Those have mostly been cards from the basic set, theyre supposed to shit and most cards should always be better than those.
really? honestly i didn't expect this sort of cynicism from you
there are more reasons than money not to buff old cards, as the literal developers of the game have literally commented. When cards are buffed (or nerfed, for that matter), they are ripped from your collection and replaced with new ones. The old decks that used those cards cease to exist, or are at least altered in some way. If they, instead of buffing old cards, print a new (strictly/not strictly) better version of an old card, which they have, and they've often made those cards *common*, it's not a money-grab to try and squeeze those extra 5 cents worth of dust from your collection. It's giving players a new card to play with without destroying the decks the previous cards were a part of.
And bad cards offer learning experiences for new players, too. Magma Rager is a card that is bad but not obviously so to someone learning the game. 5 attack is more than any other 3-drop. It trades up with most 5-drops. And it deals 1/6th of the opponent's total health whenever you hit them in the face with it. Learning that/why Magma Rager is bad is part of the game.
And the nerfs are completely, completely welcome (apart from blade flurry which is somewhat destructive to the rogue class identity). Are you seriously complaining that force/roar and knife juggler were nerfed? Do you play hearthstone at all?
From one of hearthstone's more vocal critics? Or from the card game designer?
This is some of the most baffling logic they've used to date then, and that's saying something. Aside from the fact that they HAVE nerfed cards, nobody is gonna be "mah deck is destroyed" if some niche card only they were using gains +1/+1. On top of that, the whole reason we have a slew of nerfs right now is because rotation is going to destroy every deck anyway. Unless they plan to do this every time we rotate, which is every year, then now was the time to do a lot more nerfs and buffs as classic is far from perfect. Or at least a few buffs. At least ONE buff.
Yeah, among game designers "newbie traps" are classically an argument used against customizable element games in their entirety. The notion that bad cards should exist because... step 2... profit (only that's literally the actual reason here) is the most cancerous lingering boil on the ass of the card game industry. Also "haha you dumb shits you shouldn't have been so stupid as to play magma rager" makes it seem like I'm not the cynical one here.
I never said the specific nerfs were bad.
You get new faces by making awesome new cards. It's their fault that their new sets are mostly literal joke cards, randos, and the kind of newbie traps that allegedly should be in classic.NOVED said:
Umm, yes you do. Magic and YGO see old cards reprinted all the time. Not to this extent, sure, but that was a choice that Blizzard made. They wanted anyone who jumps in at any point to have a more accessible game more than they wanted the variety you're talking about. It's in part due to a bad initial infrastructure, and in part due to their trademark laziness. But it's the bed they made, and they say they are going to sleep in it forever.
Brode had stated that the first wave of nerfs was going to be light and then they were open to the idea of more changes (both buffs and nerfs). Whether or not they happen on the yearly set rotation or more frequently was still up in the air though vonFiedler
That being said standard in two days hype
That being said standard in two days hype
